Leinathan/mdt's Kingmaker (Inactive)

Game Master leinathan

I'd be interested in financing a room like that at some point, but I'm currently lacking the funds (given that I already have goods in excess of 16000). I'd definitely be interested in creating such a place in the future though.

No, sorry, no word from Kertuffle yet. I'm hoping to hear from him eventually. We may have to tie up loose ends as we can, and snip others off.

Lienathan, let me know when you're ready to start. I've been trying to keep thigns going in the gameplay thread so people don't get out of the habit of checking it. :)

@Wil/Townhall - the general feeling seems to be 'strapped for cash' so I guess we hold it off then : )

A shame : ( Perhaps he is truly buried.

Also - you two (mdt & lienathan) should totally have a private Google doc or eachothers email's so you can coordinate stuff =)

We do have one.

But I haven't heard from Lienathan on it, so I thought I'd post here to let him know I'm ready when he is.

Yeah, I thought the building was a good idea too, Fhârn. Ditto on the not enough money thing as well, though.

Meant to say something earlier, but it slipped my mind.

I thought the picture you did of Anastacia was cool as well, Wilhelm. Did you use Pro Fantasy for that? It seemed similar to the 'Character Artist' program that they made. Quite a bit more refined though.

Edit: Also here's the stat-block for her monastery.

Buildings
Monastery
Earnings: Gold +49, Goods +25, Influence +29, Labor +18, Magic +15
Take 10 values (choose 1): 5 gp and 9 sp, 3 Goods, 3 Influence, 2 Labor, 2 Magic
Create: Goods 58, Influence 15, Labor 53, Magic 6 (3450 gp)
Rooms: 1 Altar (Pharasma), 1 Bath, 1 Book Repository (Knowledge [planes]), 1 Bunks, 1 Courtyard, 1 Crypt, 1 Garden, 1 Kitchen, 1 Laundry, 1 Lavatory, 1 Office, 2 Sanctum, 1 Scriptorium
Size: 76 squares
Notes: A cloister for meditation and study.

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Organizations
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I'm ready as well, mdt. Where would you like to start? I'd like to skip the period of exploration and go straight into kingdom-building, which means making the kingdom decisions early on.

I'd honestly prefer to do the 'year off' thing first, then the exploration. Unless the PCs strenuously object. The game suggests doing so at this point, and I see a lot of reasons for it. Additionally, it will allow the PCs to use the year off down time to do some building of non-kingdom buildings as well (homes, meeting halls, etc) that while they don't add to the kingdom checks, they do make things easier RP wise, so everyone isn't meeting in Oleg's. :)

Which would mean you'd be taking over first, to get the kingdom building stuff done. After that, we'd split into our separate threads, and then pick up.

I am a bit lost as to the groups are we going with the ones Fhârn suggested?

I am a bit lost as to the groups are we going with the ones Fhârn suggested?

Wil seemed to find them agreeable, but only the two of us have actually voiced any opinions. So for the time being, that setup has the most 'votes' (2). It would be awesome if more could give their say :)

And we need to decide how we are going to start - further exploration or 1 year of kingdom building. IC, it seems as if it would make most sense to deal with all the million little things that are currently happening first (ie: Weird neighbours, roaming undead, worgs, whom sent the pirates, ect ...).

On the other hand, only Kertuffle knew what was up with most of those - and he hasn't responded yet. And both the DM's want to kingdom build first.

Thus I cast my vote for Kingdom building - with perhaps a tiny bit of handwaveing if our DM's can't track down Kertuffle and his notes.

Also - I added the spell Arcane Reinforcement to both my own spellbook and the common ones.

I'm avoiding commenting on the group makeup due to position as co-gm. :) Taking out Dareon for the same reason leaves less people to vote.

Lienathan, I've put in a page of stuff on our common doc.

Just noticed that Jhod Kavken is mentioned twice in the 'Notable Citizens' section of the campaign information. Just a note :P

edit: Also added a few more spells to Fhârn's spellbook. Sadly not to the Common ones - will do as soon as I get some more gold :)

Rune of Durability, Familiar Figment and Raiment of Command.

What I want, if we're doing the year of downtime first:

Everyone ought to PM Wilhelm a few suggestions of what they want built during the year, and when they want it built.

Then, Wilhelm ought to PM ME about the progression of the year, what he wants built during each successive month. We're doing a year from the current progression, folks. We'll do the rolls as normal with whomever is supposed to roll them.

Wyssal is available for a government position, if you don't mind revolutionaries in the government. :D
About what to do, she votes for aggressive expansion.
And about laws, no slavery, indentured servitude nor prisons. For murder and rape, swift unpainful death. For other crimes, banishment. But no penalty for "common" robbery (Six Rivers freedoms, remember, You have what you hold.)
For everything else I go with the majority.

I suspect that Wyssal will need to be introduced as part of the down time kingdom running, and I suspect she won't be pulled into a government position for awhile. I suspect by the time she got pulled in, the laws would already have been decided upon.

Now, she can try to get the laws changed. :) I'm not sure what is open and needed at the moment she'd work well for. Diplomat possibly? Leaving Dareon to go back to Magister. But again, it'd be a bit of time before she became trusted.

What will she need to change the laws? A Revolution? :P
On the "downtime" year she will try to create a "grassroots" movement of Stolen Land people, to defend their rights against the "Brevoy" arrivals.

While the laws you are suggesting Wyssal are compelling I don't feel my character would support them. He sees them as to lenient.

We have just completed a segment where "common robbery" was sentenced to dead or indentured service in the military as I recall.

I know, but as a local she respects and upholds the Six River Freedoms. To change that is a big cultural change for the locals.

Most of those are unchanged. Say what you will, freedom of movement. Indenturement is not slavery, it's enforced labor to make you pay back what you stole or broke or cost others. Violent crime is usually execution or jail at hard labor (assuming the Army doesn't accept you).

Just to note, fomenting a rebellion during the down time is not the way to worm your way into power (or even into trusted relationships). Agitating for change is different, but fomenting active rebellion isn't going to help. And it won't take long for Sanita to track down who's behind it.

From a GM standpoint, actively protesting vocally wouldn't be a problem, and perhaps being taken in as the representative of the locals would work to get Wyssal involved with the powers that will be.

I personally suggest that if you want to take this route, it would be best to be the vocal proponent of non-violent protest and then RP some during the down time debating with PCs (Wilhelm, Anastacia, Dante, Lanya, as a start).

Do note that the Stolen Lands are not the River Kingdoms, those are to the south. The Stolen Lands are more like the wild back yard that people who aren't welcome in the River Kingdoms are exiled to. :)

So far as kingdom building goes, I'd be happy to hear from people. I outlined a rough guideline of how I think should play out here. I do think we should go month by month, even if that means rolling stability and stuff in advance in spoilers so that we can react as we go.

Example:

I'm good with the 3 month plan, after that, I think we need to regroup and see how the first 3 months went.

I think about 6 or 8 months in, we need to seriously consider the 'Subjugate' option with the Kobolds, and Shimmer as the Viceroy. That gives us 3 months to stabilize the mixing of the two peoples. We can move a few of the more prominent kobolds into junior/mid level positions in the kingdom (Like, for example, Mine Foreman).

I agree with the early garrison and inn. That will seriously help stability. Sanita was planning on putting her efforts into Economy so long as unrest was low, if we have a bad check, I was planning on switching her bonus as needed.

...Indenturement is not slavery... or jail at hard labor...

Wyssal thinks otherwise. She is against"obligations" that restrict people's freedom.

...fomenting a rebellion during the down time is not the way to worm your way into power...

The "revolution" bit was a joke (hence the :P )

...perhaps being taken in as the representative of the locals would work to get Wyssal involved with the powers that will be.

That is the plan. Like a roman Consul (Republic-style, the representative of the common people).

Do note that the Stolen Lands are not the River Kingdoms...

Your game, your rules. But accordingly the "canon" the Stolen Lands are part of the River Kingdoms.

What I mean is, the river kingdoms are to the south, per the AP, as far as I can tell from reading. The stolen lands, from my understanding, were unclaimed other than small tribes and such.

What I mean is, the river kingdoms are to the south, per the AP, as far as I can tell from reading. The stolen lands, from my understanding, were unclaimed other than small tribes and such.

You are mostly right. The River Kingdoms is a very variable zone. Kingdoms come and go. But the "full" area of them includes the Stolen Lands. Pitax, for example, claims a part of the Stolen Lands ("claims" is the operating word here).

I think the point worth considering is - the Stolen Lands are mostly unsettled. So the population would mostly be immigrants and pioneers from Brevoy and Restov - the 'locals' are probably quickly going to be a minority. Which may or may not be the reason a certain halfing makes her way to our court in an effort to make sure whatever local culture exists isn't entirely drown in the tide of new arrivals.

Also, regarding downtime - I think perhaps blocks of three months each is a good compromise between speed and adjustability. Every month might grind it to an (even stiller) halt. And an entire year without any checkpoints seems a bit far : )

Which may or may not be the reason a certain halfing makes her way to our court in an effort to make sure whatever local culture exists isn't entirely drown in the tide of new arrivals.

Sounds very probable...

@ Wyssal.
If you banish people for crimes, how do you keep them from just wandering back?
You would have to either have an 'iron curtain' style border, or a very robust system of personal identification. Either of these options has as much potential for tyranny as anything mentioned so far. Not to mention the cost of implementing either would be prohibitive.

I agree with you about indentured servitude, especially when it come to debtors. However, since banishment won't work. (Our neighbors would quickly become upset with us if we sent our criminals to them.) It leaves us with only imprisonment as an option for mid level crimes. That being the case, there is no reason for prisoners not to work. Prison should not be vacation time. I don't mean hard labor, just regular labor, regular wages. money would be deducted to pay for room and board, but the prisoner should actually have earned a little money for when they get out. Ideally, they would learn a bit of a trade as well.

Most importantly, there needs to be a good set of laws. So we don't fill our prisons up with folk that really don't belong there. For instance, somebody mentioned having laws against public nudity. That's a prime example of a useless law. Maybe even worse than useless, it would tie our police and courts up in frivolous cases, when there are real crimes to be investigated and tried.

Dareon's requests, essentially, btw:

They're essentially just the Magical Academy and the regular University. Obviously we can't afford those straight-out, so starting with the basest requirements of those is nice - a Caster's Tower, a Library, etc.

He'd also like an Orphanage in town.

As for laws, Anastacia said everything that I might have said - I back up her logic fully.

Also! Who wants to get going with the first of twelves months of kingdom building! If we're doing it a month at a time, might as well start now.

I'd be fine with doing kingdom building as we still have some talking to do IC. We can do the kingdom building while that's going on. I suggest we do months 2 and 3 in one go, then stop and evaluate months 4/5/6 and then do those. We can keep this pattern for 7/8/9 and 10/11/12. We'll need rolls for both of those months (Fharn for Economy/event and Bej for stability.) We'll be building a house and a dance hall during month two. We'll want to annex a hex in order build a road and a farm in it. I'd suggest we take C20 (See this map for reference).

During month 3, I vote that we don't annex any hexes and instead focus on building a house and a garrison (cheaper jails/granaries and boosts our weakest stats). During this month, we'll need the same rolls as for month one.

After the first two months, our stats will look like the following (doesn't included effects of Fhârn and Bej's rolls):

The DC's and modifiers for Fhârn and Bej's rolls are spoiled below (assuming no unrest, so add that if needed).

At the end of the two months, we'll have 30 BP + ((D20 + 24)/3)*2 + 2d6 (with more possible if we roll 6s) in the treasury. All other stats are as noted in the above stat block. It should also be noted that if Felix takes over as Councilor (which he likely will), then these numbers will change slightly. Our loyalty would go up by 1-2 points depending on Felix's CHA (either 19 or 21 depending on if he gets a headband of charisma).

@Anastacia: i once read a great novel, 1632 from Eric Flint (Free, downloadable and very recommended), where the solution was banishment followed by "Wanted" posters offering a reward for their heads, without the rest of the body. Not only saves on jails and policing, but generates jobs (bounty hunters) ;). We have to think in the economy.
You can count Wyssal support about getting the good set of laws (and courts) in place. That is really important and Wyssal will support what you are saying.
@Dareon: Count Wyssal to support the Library and Orphanage (Labor and / or money).
@Wilhelm: About Kingdom building. Instead of the Dance Hall a Library or Orphanage (Dance hall? Really?). As for month 3 Wyssal votes for keep annexing hexes. In particular annex the Stag Lord Fort Hex as soon as possible.

The dance hall is being built for free as part of the gold rush that is going on right now. That's the only reason for that. :) I'm fairly sure a paladin ruler wouldn't choose that above other options, if he had the choice. Sadly the will of the people has been made clear, so he reluctantly carries out his duty. Also, free stuff is nice.

Any other thoughts on continuing to annex is month 3? I've only heard from Wyssal about that so far.

Wyssal, that doesn't really work outside Erik Flint's head. The problem you'd have is people would then go into the neighboring kingdoms, kill the exiles, and probably people around at the time, other bounty hunters, innocent bystanders, etc.

Not the thing to make us popular with our neighbors. Not to mention I know how I'd feel if the kingdom next door used us for their dumping ground for criminals.

@Wilhelm
I think if the unrest isn't up, we could annex. I think if our unrest grows in 1 or 2, we need to hold off until we 'digest' what we have.

I have nothing for the initial steps.

Later on, I'd like to see ever-flowing fountains and magical illumination since they mesh well with my vision of an high fantasy kingdom proper. At some point - our city really ought to have a sever system as well : )

I like the later on idea Fhârn. Mind doing the rolls for month's 2/3? :)

I have no objection to continuing to annex hexes. If we do so, I'd suggest we take the hex with the gold mine (D19) and build a road and a mine on it (1 BP per turn/+1 economy). In hindsight, I forgot consumption during Month 2. By factoring in this change, our economy would have a 1 higher Economy modifier during month 3 and we would have only 19 bp + our taxes + economic boom events in our treasury (30 - 1 consumption I forgot - 1 annex during month 3 - 6 mine - 3 road).

Economy, month 2: 1d20 ⇒ 2

Economy. month 3: 1d20 ⇒ 5

I wasn't 100% on the modifiers, so I neglected them : )

edit: Isch, those rolls ... I guess we have to make due with living on only hard bread and water for month 2 & 3 ^^

25 and 28, the modifier is +23.

Sanita's currently having her bonus in Stability, per the sheet. I think that's good as our DC on that is 25 I believe?

After building the mine in the hills with the resource (gold) we would have a modifier of +27 (month 3 only). That would mean you rolled a 26 and then a 32. We gain 8 and then 10 gold, plus another 2 the second month due to the mine. That brings us to +20 gold. Adding the two events:

Economic Boom M2: 1d6 ⇒ 3
Economic Boom M3: 1d6 ⇒ 4

We end up with +27 gold in our treasury plus the 19 from before for a total of 46 bp. At this stage, we can probably safely continue to months 4/5/6. Here are the stats of the kingdom after those first 3 months (date would be Sarenith something).

Over the next 3 months, I think we should annex the 3 hexes leading to the Stag Lord's fort and build quarries in a few of them and roads in all of them. We should build (in order) a granary, a library and a noble villa. From an RP perspective, the granary makes sense given we'd be approaching end of the summer. The library is popularly requested. The noble villa gives us a bit more legitimacy for any visiting nobility/ambassadors. It also pays off in terms of discounts for other things.

This should be interesting at least. Can't wait to see how we tie everything together.

Looking great Wilhelm! Thanks

No objections here. Looks good Wilhelm. If I remember the map correctly, that will also give us the hex adjacent to the sootscales? Which means in 7/8/9 we could add them. We need 3 control rolls in a row to make the addition stable, and I don't want to do that last 3 months, we don't want to pick up exploring with the country unstable due to integration. That'll give us a much better chance of making the three in a row.

Looking at the map, I'd say that hexes F6 and G6 need to be explored as part of the kingdom expansion. They seem like a vital part of the corridor.

So, excuse me, but is my input needed right now?

Are the decisions made, and can I change the campaign tab now?

We're up to month 3/12, yeah? Six months of development total.

@Anastacia: That's a valid point. I was just going to expand into hexes to the north of it (up-left on the map). I'm fine with whatever we decide, but we should decide now before we get much further.

@leinathan: We finished the first three months (Gozran/Desnus/Sarenith) of kingdom building except for any unrest rolls. Here are those real quick (just to keep us moving).

Month 2: Stability roll: 1d20 + 19 ⇒ (14) + 19 = 33
Month 3: Stability roll: 1d20 + 19 ⇒ (6) + 19 = 25

Both passed with flying colors (DC 23 and 24 for each month, respectively). We'll need economy rolls from Fhârn for 3 more months and stability rolls from Bej for 3 more months. Honestly, it might be best to just roll 9 months worth and we can go from there.

Also, leinathan, can you please update the map we have to be this one?

Event Month 4: 1d100 ⇒ 100 Event on 0-24
Event Month 5: 1d100 ⇒ 85 Event on 0-74
Event Month 6: 1d100 ⇒ 88 Event on 0-74

Ok then. No events.

Breakdown (month by month) of action
Erastus - Month 4 year 1

• Pay 1 for consumption and have Felicia Shimmerscales take over as Councilor.
  
• Bej needs a Stability check at DC 24 with modifier 21.
  
• Claim E19 (1 bp) and build a road w/ bridges (6 bp) and quarry (6 bp) on it.
  
• Build a granary in Zatoksta (6 bp with garrison discount).
  
• Collect taxes (modifier 28) and get 3 bonus BP.
  
• No events.
  
• Ending treasury is 29 BP + floor((1d20 + 28)/3)

Arodus - Month 5 year 1

• Pay 2 for consumption.
  
• Bej needs an unrest check at DC 25 with modifier 23.
  
• Claim F18 (1 bp) and build a road (3 bp) and quarry (6 bp) on it.
  
• Build a library in Zatoksta (6 bp).
  
• Collect taxes (modifier 29) and get 4 bonus BP.
  
• No events.
  
• Ending treasury is 15 BP + floor((1d20 + 29)/3) + floor((1d20 + 28)/3)

Rova - Month 6 year 1

• Pay 3 for consumption.
  
• Bej needs an unrest check at DC 27 with modifier 24.
  
• Claim G19 (1 bp) and build a road (3 bp) and a fishery (4 bp) on it.
  
• Build a noble villa in Zatoksta (24 bp)(Note: we can afford it even if previous rolls are both 1).
  
• Collect taxes (modifier 30) and get 4 bonus BP.
  
• No events.
  
• Ending treasury is -16 BP + floor((1d20 + 29)/3) + floor((1d20 + 28)/3) + floor((1d20 + 30)/3) (minimum here is 13 if all 1s are rolled).

Economy, Month 4: 1d20 + 28 ⇒ (10) + 28 = 38 12

Economy, Month 5: 1d20 + 29 ⇒ (18) + 29 = 47 15

Economy, Month 6: 1d20 + 30 ⇒ (3) + 30 = 33 11

Treasury at the end of Month 6: 22 BP

Note: Weren't we planning on pushing our consumption back to 0?

Wyssal plans to spend those months gaining influence and getting his Rose Garden and political organization up its feet. Do I used the downtime rules? Any stuff to take into consideration?

Regarding Wyssal - I was planning on calling a meeting IC with regards to her 'graffiti' and political moment. Figured it was a half-decent way to introduce my advisor NPCs real quick and then get us all to agree that the easiest way to deal with the moment is simply to contact them. Then we can finally 'let her in', so to speak.

I was also planning on having my cohort show up around autumn, but I'm not sure if people like to have even more separate timelines. On the other hand, downtime is now moving forward so I better get to it ... : )

The posts will probably emerge in a few hours, depending on inspiration and distractions : )

If you want an actual organization, yes, Wyssal, use the downtime rules. Pay gold out of starting funds.

Ok, Sanita can't afford to personally fund the spy organization. We need to spend 1 bp at least to get that up and running at this point. Also, we need to seriously consider the Sootscales as well now that we're at 6/7/8.

If I read it correctly, 1 BP can be turned into a 1000 gp yes? That would certainly get the spy organization off the ground. Building, and quite a few groups of spies.

Fharn, as part of the setup toward level 7, Sanita could 'borrow' Munin from you often for spy work. During down time, you won't need him as much, so he'd likely be getting bored anyway.