Leinathan/mdt's Kingmaker (Inactive)

Game Master leinathan

That was unexpected Anastacia. I was looking forward to that segment! Dante had already ordered the men roused. Totally was down to RP that whole thing out with you. :(

It wasn't my desire or intention to be condescending. But I guess I was, so I figured it was best to cut it off, rather than continue along with the negative feeling that condescension breeds.

No problem, I didn't think you were, that's just Dante's preconception of you. Everyone will have to work stuff like that out IC eventually. OOC I wanted to overcome that IC bad blood, that has stemmed from our characters arguing in the past, and training/bonding over you being proactive and taking an interest in what Dante is doing was a good step towards that, it's why as a player I had Dante engage instead of just asking you to leave :)

I never have any bad feelings about other players, especially in this group where all are avid and talented RPers!

Hmm maybe I'll have Dante send a runner to ask Anastacia if she would like to join him for breakfast and then the morning training regiment!

Before we continue the kingdom building, we'll need to figure out what, precisely, we'll be having the Sootscales do. The only really viable options I see are to: create a vassalage by 'subjugating' the Sootscales (which we can reflavor) or treating them as a separate kingdom and making a variety of treaties with them. It seems like the vassalage option is likely best, with the only problems I foresee are:

• Having enough people to take control of vacant council spots (in the Sootscales kingdom)
  
• Having enough gold to give them to start off. (If we do it now, we have 22 BP in our treasury which is only 5 BP to give)
  
• Having Felix have 2 weeks of downtime compared with the 3 for the rest of us (we could just all take that much downtime...).

My inclination is therefore to go down the vassalage route after we try to save up some money for a few months. As far as kingdom roles, I'm not thrilled with the idea of having to recalculate thing with Roan in Warden instead, so we'll just have to suck it up. :P Kingdom roles should look like the following, I think:

Before creating the vassalage:

• Ruler: Wilhelm
  
• Councilor: Felix
  
• General: Dante
  
• Grand Diplomat: Lanya
  
• High Priest: Anastacia
  
• Magister: Dareon
  
• Marshal: Rowan
  
• Royal Enforcer: Vors
  
• Spymaster: Sanita
  
• Treasurer: Fhârn
  
• Viceroy: n/a
  
• Warden: Roan

After creating the vassalage:

• Ruler: Wilhelm
  
• Councilor: Wyssal
  
• General: Dante
  
• Grand Diplomat: Lanya
  
• High Priest: Anastacia
  
• Magister: Dareon
  
• Marshal: Rowan
  
• Royal Enforcer: Vors
  
• Spymaster: Sanita
  
• Treasurer: Fhârn
  
• Viceroy: Felix
  
• Warden: Roan

I think everything makes decent use of everyone's skills/stats and makes decent sense RPwise.

I'm working on my cohort and will get it posted at some point.

@MDT/leinathan: Any further thoughts on my Stipend Edict idea? I think it makes some good sense RPwise and it gives us some flexibility to do neat things (more downtime stuff).

All passed with flying colors. The Warden (Roan) can roll these from here on out.

I don't think Felix/Shimmer has to take out two weeks. Her one week of preforming her job is being the viceroy, so it should be the same one week. For the empty spots in the kingdom, we'll have to find NPCs to fill out the positions. Even if they only have 10's in their stats, it's better than them not being in there. We can expand them out as we find new PCs.

As to the edict, I'd rather let Leinathan decide that, since he's volunteered to take over the kingdom building bit, I don't want to step on his toes by offering a view one way or the other that might oppose his. I figure if he has to live with it he should be able to decide it without my influencing it. :)

My assumption was that he'd also fill the Ruler position of the Sootscales kingdom. If that's not the case, then there's no problem. :)

If we fill the viceroy spot, we're specifically forbidden with filling the ruler position, per the rules. The sootscales always take the rulerless penalty.

The only thing I could find was that if you didn't have a Viceroy, then the kingdom would suffer from the ruler vacancy penalty. Where are you seeing that, mdt?

Vacancy Penalty: If the vassal kingdom take a vacancy penalty for not having a Viceroy or a Viceroy not doing his duties, that kingdom also takes the Ruler vacancy penalty. A Consort or Heir from your kingdom may mitigate this penalty if she is touring the vassal state; however, she cannot also mitigate the Ruler vacancy penalty in your kingdom.

Ah, I misread that the first time.

So, it sounds like we have to make the normal treaty and alliance checks, and can spend BP to reduce the DC (as bribes). Half that is immediately used to build stuff for the Sootscales that round. If it's successful, we immediately have a viceroy and embassy.

Then we increase the DC of the main kingdom's Loyalty check by Sootscale Size/5. If we make it 3 times in a row, we are done with that penalty. If not, we gain 1d4 unrest per upkeep phase until we make it 3 times. I suggest Sanita switch to boosting Loyalty for the 3 months, to give us a boost.

Theoretically, the Sootscales already have their positions filled, so we'd just be adding Shimmer as their vice roy. Also, theoretically we're on friendly terms.

I think 7th or 8th month at the latest, personally. That gives us plenty of time to make the loyalty checks.

Sanita will move her bonus to Loyalty from Stability for those 3 checks, to help make sure they are made.

Don't forget, the bonuses we get are not just stat, but also skill affected (Sanita's Sense Motive is 6 ranks, so that's +1, so +4 to her check bonus). Note it's Ranks, not skill bonus. Also remember that when we get Leadership feats, that bonus increases by 1 as well.

I am going to bow out. I simply have lost the drive for this game, not because of you, but it is to large for me. I have discovered that I am more comfortable with smaller games with 4 or 5 players. Thanks for the good times.

Sorry to see you go, Vors. Thanks for saving me from those wargs.

I'll remove you from the player page in a moment.

Questions, folks: Should we continue to let people drop until we're down to 6 or less before getting replacements, or do we want to get replacements now and keep the party at the same size?

What's the treasury looking like?

Also, @ Wilhelm: About the stipend, I'm thinking of adopting something very similar to Sanita's idea, as long as mdt is okay with 250gp materializing from thin air on a monthly basis. That is to say, 20gp per month as a free stipend for each council member excluding Wilhelm, who would receive 50gp per month.

This establishes general wealth guidelines, keeping the council members above-average, while only breaking the Law of Conservation of Matter a little bit.

I'm fine with it.

As to replacements, I think we might as well start. But let's set an upper limit of say, 12 players? 6 each?

Treasury at the end of month 6 is 22 BP.

Edit: Sorry, was posting quickly and I must have skimmed over Vors post. I'm sorry to see you go, Vors. I've always liked your backstory and will be sad to see you go. Take care and happy gaming.

Sorry to lose you Vors, glad it wasn't us.

Wyssal will have something to say about the stipends...

And Dareon will have an argument to answer it. One that I think she will actually listen to.

It was fun playing with you, Vors. Maybe again in another game.

As much as it pains me to say, I think I have the same problem with the game as Bej and Vors have/had.

It feels too big and too many subplots to follow. I just can't find the time to read and post responding to everyone.
I've enjoyed playing with you all and I enjoyed roleplaying Lanya in the way I have, but I'm not contributing as much as I'd like to be able to in my games.

If you want you can use Lanya as an NPC, either for the kingdom or against or let her disappear all together.

If any smaller Kingmaker campaigns come up, keep Lanya in mind, I'd be happy to reuse her.

I'm saddened to see both of you leave. It was fun to play with you =)

I totally understand what you're getting at, the number of posts can be a bit overwhelming at times. Probably what happens when 10+ people play around in the same thread!

Are you sure you don't want to stick around until the exploration part? Then we split and are back to decent sized groups again ... :)

Anyways - have fun and good luck in the future :)

Well... damn...

Honestly at this point, it feels like it's falling apart. I'm not sure there's going to be enough players to need two GMs, or if it keeps going, one GM.

I've been thinking about this all morning, and honestly the game has reduced to the point where it's really just a one GM job. If I withdraw Sanita, the numbers are down to a one GM game at this point, and in all honestly Sanita's the most contentious of the characters. A lot of that is how I was mentally at the time I created her, but by the same token, I've sort of painted myself into a corner, as I can't really do more than soften her personality at this point, it's too established.

With only one GM, and only 6 players, the game will go smoother, which will I think be easier on Lienathan than trying to juggle things with me involved as well. The down side is he doesn't get to play Dareon, but by the same token, I won't be playing Sanita, so that evens out, I think.

I've really enjoyed this game, a lot, and hope the game continues more smoothly without Sanita around to generate sharp edges and conflict. I apologize to Anastacia and Felix for prior disruptions. Hopefully this will make things easier for Wilhelm and Lienathan to pick up with going forward.

Oh.

I'll be saddened to see you guys go. I'd like to point out that things are kind of crazy right now (I'm having a hard time keeping track as well), but that it should die down and normalize a lot once we get past this downtime section. If you change your mind, I'm sure we'd be happy to have you around. :)

Of course, I completely understand if the game is just too much to keep track of and wish you the best. Either way, I just wanted to point that out. Take care Lanya and MDT. I've had a lot of fun roleplaying with both of you and hope that everything goes well for you.

@Lanya: It's been fun, Rocan.

@MDT: Whatever our disagreements IC, I've had a fun time RPing with you. Wilhelm and Sanita are certainly very different characters, but I think things have been relatively smooth of late.

Questions, folks: Should we continue to let people drop until we're down to 6 or less before getting replacements, or do we want to get replacements now and keep the party at the same size?

I've enjoyed having a larger party, but am flexible. With quite a few of the old guard leaving, I'm comfortable with simply making do with the party we have. To be honest, whichever is easiest for everyone is fine with me.

IC replies coming later.

This leaves the remaining roster at -

Dante, Wyssal, Rowan, Roan, Felix, Fharn, Wilhelm, Anastacia

Still eight people, but I've managed FtF 8-person parties, which are honestly much harder. I dunno, it's up to you guys. What do you want to do? I'm most comfortable with simply adventuring - I like to think that I'm a pretty good GM when it comes to that. However, the rest of it, the organization and everything else, that's pretty tough for me. Writing out people is difficult, too, and finding replacements for the lost leaders might also pose a challenge (though I think Sanita and Lanya may remain as NPCs).

What do you guys want? More people? Same people, continue as usual?

Ach, sorry to see you go MDT, Lanya, everyone really... But, to the task at hand. Given how many people are diving right now, I think we should focus on just normalizing for the moment. Dareon's a great character though, so I'm going to be thinking about some way we can keep you adventuring too, part of why I supported the initial bid to make a co-GM system. :)

Yes, trying to bring in more people in this moment of turmoil feels unwise.

I'll repeat what I said earlier - it's sad to see people leave, and I'll add you mdt/Sanita to the list. I'll also echo what Will said - this is probably the most 'chaotic' part right now. We would all be glad if any of you feel like jumping in once the downtime is dealt with : )

It's not about the chaos, I'm used to that. Roan can vouch for that considering some of the other games I run. :)

It's that Sanita has never been a good fit, and there's enough characters for a single GM to have a good work load, but for two GMs to just get in each other's way. I honestly only offered to take it over to keep it alive as it was, I really hate running APs. I always find them either written assuming idiot players, newbies, murder hobos, or some combination thereof. :) Given all that, along with the loss of players, it just seems to make more sense for me to back off and let Leinathan have full control so he doesn't have to tip toe around me and vice versa. I honestly think it's slowing things down having two GMs right now, with each nervous about pushing things without checking with the other.

The previous post was not 100% directed at you mdt, it was mostly a repetition of what I and Will said earlier regarding those whom actually felt it was a bit (too much) chaos ^^

If Sanitas 'compatibility' is the main issue, you could ... have another character :P?

But as always, these choices are yours to make (now I'm speaking in general again!) - even if I'll try to nudge people back in the game out of selfishness (so far, RPing with people have been fun and I'll miss each and every one of the leaving characters).

LOL, I know, I just wanted to expand on it, so that people didn't think it was personal or anything. :) I like to give reasons when I have them. :)

Anyone here is welcome into any game I run if I'm needing players and they are interested, drop me a note referencing the game, it's hard to keep track of aliases. And when I start new games, you're all more than welcome. If anyone wants me to PM them before I start a new game, just drop me a PM. If anyone wants me to keep their name on a short list for any games I'm playing in that have openings, again, drop me a PM.

Roger : )

I'm a bit hyped about the upcoming AP Iron Gods - so if you ever plan to run it, I'm game ^^ But then, it is an AP :P

YEah, like I said, not a fan of APs. :)

Since this Kingmaker is my first try at APs, I can't really say either way. From what I've heard, most people generally have good things to say about them, but they need some tweaking to fit every group.

The premise of both Numeria as a country, and the plot of Iron Gods seems cool - so I thought I'd throw out a net anyhow. You newer know : )

Don't get me wrong, AP's are fine as a source of ideas for games. But if I have to do as much work as I usually have to with an AP, I might as well just write something up myself. :)

Okay then. Let me cover all eventualities: If you happen to get the urge to run a of pathfinder with murder-robots and/or spaceships, consider me in ^^

LOL
I once ran a Star Wars campaign set during the Rebellion Era. I had a force using droid (crystal lifeform pretending to be a droid), a Togrian, a force using catfolk, an albino force using Jawa (he wore white robes), and a force using human.

They used their force powers on every land fall. Attracted imperial attention in no time, and by the end of it, had been infiltrated by a sith agent who killed catfolk battlemaster jedi and corrupted the Jawa. The Jawa ended up being 'Darth Kenny'. The player literally brought a tape player to the final game and as he stole the PCs ship, he pressed play and started playing the Star Wars Emperial theme, and struck a pose. "You will respect my authority! I am Darth Kenny!" Then he called out for troopers to surround the rest of the party, who thought they were signing up with the rebellion.

Only game I've ever had where all the PCs ended up dead or captured in the end, and everyone applauded.

Sorry to see you go Lanya.

You too, mdt. No apologies are needed, I don't mind a little IC argument. as long as it doesn't go so far as to cause PvP fighting.

It always makes me a little sad when players leave.

Well friends, I guess we have to figure out where this is going now. We have agreed to stay at 8, we can keep npcs around to run those slots we need them in, Wil will now have an npc Lanya wife, all we need is a plan.

The way I see it, we should probably head back to 'normality' asap. Get some rhythm and reason, ie back to a bit of exploration. Should prevent further attrition and soothe the slightly empty feeling atleast I have from such substantial losses.

That being said, if he feels up for the task, it would be awesome if Will completed the rest of the downtime - making all the rolls by himself to prevent us from being bogged down again.

Felix, you should probably state a course of action with the kobolds and a month then we take it from there. In reality, one should probably ponder the merging of kingdoms for a long while. But now ...

And lastly, leinathan and we should decide on groups. A group of eight is workable - but then we should probably not have any cohorts running around with us or we risk being a too unwieldy group. Two groups of four gives more room to include cohorts in the exploration/questing, but it will take twice the effort and time.

Just my two coppers : )

Sorry for being incommunicado the last few days. Work was truly nuts (I was at work every day starting 8-8:30 in the morning until at least 8-9 PM every day last week). I took the 4th to rest and recuperate a bit.

I can continue the kingdom building, I just need to know when we want to start including the kobold kingdom (consensus of 1-2 seemed to be month 7-8). I also need to know what structures (if any) the kobold kingdom would have at the start (maybe a house and a mine?). I can make all further rolls as desired. As far as groups go, I'd prefer to keep 2 groups if leinathan is ok with that. If no, then I'll need to decide how to change up the exploration.

Honestly, I'd be fine if you keep playing Dareon, leinathan. It would be a shame to lose such a great character. I can step in to help GM (preferably just if there is a conflict of interest) as I'm familiar with the AP.

Group 1:
Wil
Roan
Wyssal
Anastacia

Group 2:

Fhârn
Dante
Shimmerscale
Dareon
Rowan

I'd go with something like that (thoughts?) if we decide to split into two groups and if Dareon stay a PC. If he doesn't, then we can just drop him from that group. It should work ok.

New leadership assignments:
Ruler: Wilhelm
Councilor: Wyssal
General: Dante
Grand Diplomat: Lanya (if we find someone else to fill the Grand Diplomat position then we can move Lanya to co-ruler if she/Wilhelm marry.)
High Priest: Anastacia
Magister: Dareon
Marshal: Rowan
Royal Enforcer: N/A
Spymaster: Roan
Treasurer: Fhârn
Viceroy: Felix
Warden: Vors

That looks like a good plan to me, Wilhelm, so I'd say we go for it! And I agree, Fharn, it's rough losing this many people, really saps the game, so a good ol' adventuring romp sounds like a good change of pace.

On a different note, someone pointed something out to me that may be applicable to Dareon. I learned that apparently one can dispel their own Blindness spells with no added effort needed beyond a standard action. I initially thought it was like Bestow Curse in that nothing short of a Remove Curse could get rid of it, but apparently, Blindness is a touch kinder and the caster can remove it at will. So, since there's that Stag Lord's fort mook guy, and if I recall, at least at the time it sounded like everyone was under the impression that there was no way for Dareon to remove it, figured I'd point out that it seems it actually can be done, in case Dareon ever feels like that guy has paid his debt to society. :)

Sounds good. I am still super into this game, even at the currently slowed pace. I really want to try the Mass Combat Rules!

It's possible that without mdt, I can still play Dareon. I'll see. If we want to get started, I'll definitely need Wilhelm's help when it comes to the organizational sections - I'm definitely grateful to you, Wilhelm, for helping me out with the kingdom-building.

In the next few days I'll write up a post on the kingdom's developments. I can definitely do an adventure or two for you guys pretty soon.

If I play Dareon, it might have to be pretty low-key. I might make some occasional posts and retire, on the whole, from adventuring.

Sure, sounds good leinathan. I'll post tonight to move things along in RP (I'm currently still busy with work and ended up needing to work last night). Quick q, leinathan, what are you thinking as far as what the kobold kingdom has? I can complete the kingdom building tonight if I know what buildings the kobolds already have in place.

The kobold kingdom is a single hex. It's got a mine terrain improvement, and just a few buildings built.

A cistern, a graveyard, and two tenements.

You know, if I'm really thinking about it, I'm not 100% sure that I'd call the kobold tribe a "kingdom" of sufficient size to use the kingdom-building rules. They assume thousands of individuals and a concerted effort towards management and building, both of which are absent within the kobolds.

Perhaps we can treat 'kobold cave' as a unique Hex Improvement or a Free City instead of a proper kingdom ?

Would cut down on the paperwork a bit - and we wouldn't have to find/manage the stats of a secondary kingdom yet.

Perhaps we can treat 'kobold cave' as a unique Hex Improvement or a Free City instead of a proper kingdom ?

Would cut down on the paperwork a bit - and we wouldn't have to find/manage the stats of a secondary kingdom yet.

I like this idea.

Sorry, delaying one more day. Ended up staying late at work to debug some critical issues and didn't get home until an absurd time. I'll get something up tomorrow. Promise. :) Current councilors, feel free to continue engaging with Wyssal IC though...

Fhârn wrote:

Perhaps we can treat 'kobold cave' as a unique Hex Improvement or a Free City instead of a proper kingdom ?
Would cut down on the paperwork a bit - and we wouldn't have to find/manage the stats of a secondary kingdom yet.

I like this idea.

Fine by me. I'll treat it as a unique hex that has a mine for now and we can work out the secondary vassalage after this first year just to get things moving.

Month by month
Month 7: Sanita removed as spymaster and Roan replaces her. Wilhelm's bonus switched to Loyalty. Annex A19 and build a farm/road on it. Build a jail (7 bp thanks to garrison). 23 BP left in treasury.
Month 8: Pay 1.5x normal consumption (3 instead of 2). Annex A20 and build a farm/road on it. Build an inn (10 bp) in Zatoksta. 24 BP in treasury.
Month 9: Annex B20 and build a farm/road on it. Build a storeroom and change edicts to be 6 holidays per year and standard promotion. 15 BP left in treasury (consumption is -2 so we start accumulating excess in the granary).
Month 10: Annex E20 and build a mine/road on it. No other building in Zatoksta to preserve money. 21 BP in treasury.
Month 11: Annex F20 (Sootscales hex) and build a road on it (has a mine already). Build an exotic artisan (5 bp) in Zatoksta. 27 bp in treasury.
Month 12: Annex A21 and build a farm/road on it. Build a shrine (8 bp) in Zatoksta. 44 BP in treasury.

I'd have liked to have started to get into the Stag Lord's fort, but we had some crappy economy rolls that made it difficult. I think we have enough of a nest egg now that if we do relatively staggered expansion from here on out, we can move our capitol to the Stag Lord's fort relatively quickly (2-3 months?). I think the first thing to build is a castle as it gives a lot of nice bonuses and we'd have a discount.