Iron Gods: Forged into Legends

Game Master NeoEvaX

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Female N Human Wizard / Cleric 4 | HP: 27/27 | AC: 10 (10 TAC, 10 FAC) | CMB: +3, CMD: 13 | F: +5, R: +2, W: +8 | Init: +4 | Perc: +3 | SM: +7 | Spells etc | Active conditions: Fastidiousness (+2 vs inhaled and ingested diseases)

Thawm just smiles in reply.


Website with game info

She sits in silence for awhile, "I have some processing to perform. Of the domains of the various gods, not many would fit my interests. Let along have my back and provide the power I need. Even questioning Hellion could mean the loss of what makes me powerful. Not just my abilities, but also my followers."

She continues to sit quietly. You feel like you may have gotten through to her, yet not quite sure if you will get anything from her without probing. She seems content where she is, for now.

Well anything else you all want to do with her? Or around town? We are in somewhat downtime, and it is open for yall. I will interupt when needed


Male 1/2 Elf Summoner(Synthesist)/Paladin Gestalt 4
Stats:
| HP 29/29| AC 17 (20 w/Smite), T 12 FF 15| CMB +5, CMD 17 (20w/Smite)| F 8, R 6, W 8 | Init +2, Perc +7 / Low-Light Vision| Temp:

I think we're done here for now. We should send in the local high Priest of Abadar in the next couple days to talk to her about Golarion's large pantheon of options...the Abadarans were the ones casting the 'water breathing spells' right?


Female N Human Wizard / Cleric 4 | HP: 27/27 | AC: 10 (10 TAC, 10 FAC) | CMB: +3, CMD: 13 | F: +5, R: +2, W: +8 | Init: +4 | Perc: +3 | SM: +7 | Spells etc | Active conditions: Fastidiousness (+2 vs inhaled and ingested diseases)

"Suit yourself." Heretic.

Thawm turns to go. "We have things to do, so let's go do them..."

I second that high priest option.
ALso, it's time for some downtime, huh? :3
I'll go check a couple things to figure out which of the long list of things Thawm will be making xD


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Nope the main temple is to Brigh. The head cleric is Joram Kyte, he is also one of the councel members
Joram Kyte

Reminder there is the website with some info. Including what is for sale. I hope to update it more often with the new book
Website with Iron God Stuff

You go to meet with Joram, who will find time to sit down with the android and relay what he knows of the world, and other dieties. Luckily he is patient.

Lets say you all have 2 weeks in town. We can be loose about the time. Feel free to RP anything specific. But lets just everyone give me what they would be up to with 14 days


Male 1/2 Elf Summoner(Synthesist)/Paladin Gestalt 4
Stats:
| HP 29/29| AC 17 (20 w/Smite), T 12 FF 15| CMB +5, CMD 17 (20w/Smite)| F 8, R 6, W 8 | Init +2, Perc +7 / Low-Light Vision| Temp:

I was going to help Basil with her special bullets and get my Tech armor enchanted with the magic +1 bonus.Oooohhh.. Cloak of the Hedge Wizard! That's one of my favorite items. Which version is it available? I wish I had 2500gps now...


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Yeah with the 4,000 split not quite enough. Not sure if you have anything to sell otherwise. I would say the version is transmutation.

Keldor and Basil work together, some up in the Torch, which has resumed its normal schedule. though it is maybe 20 minutes off from before, which has meant a little bit of shuffle as people get new schedules, but nothing major. Helping her create what she needs. Using some of the materials from under.

You are able to work to get your armor enchanted, without much difficulty. The armor now having a nice slight magical aura about it.

Everyone spends a bit of time researching what is found below. Now that it seems mostly safe, it has brought some interest among the higher ups in the city. Khonnir is doing his best to keep it under wraps as much as possible. He believes if too much attention is made to it the Technic league will show up and want to take over. So far the only real news is that the torch went out, but came back on. We will see how long that exact story is told.

Meyanda has spend time with the local cleric, she seems to be getting swayed. One day she even claims she has lost the powers Hellion provided. When she prays nothing is returned. Not sure of what that means, she has been asking a lot of questions of Joram about Brigh. You are not sure of what will come of it, but it actually seems hopeful at this point.

She might be more willing to be spoken to soon.

Khonnir also finds the Power Relay again, and notes that he is sure it was relaying power in the direction of Scrapwall. For what reason, he is not sure.

Soon enough Delga and Khonnir gather the 3 of you together. This time Khonnir speaks up, "We have been thinking... What Meyanda was spouting about Hellion, and now knowing that the power relay was directing power that direction, we are worried that her old god might still be focusing its attention on Torch. We are a bit worried for its safety"

Delga speaks up "Yes, we are pretty sure there is a continued threat to our town. If you where able to neutralize the threat, the coucil would pay you. We have gathered a reward of 8,000gp to ensure the safety of Torch. Does this seem appropriate. We do not wish extra harm to individuals not responsible, just the direct threats pointed our way."


Male 1/2 Elf Summoner(Synthesist)/Paladin Gestalt 4
Stats:
| HP 29/29| AC 17 (20 w/Smite), T 12 FF 15| CMB +5, CMD 17 (20w/Smite)| F 8, R 6, W 8 | Init +2, Perc +7 / Low-Light Vision| Temp:

Keldor nods.

"I cannot speak for my friends, but I think that a wise precaution to protect so many hard-working people. 8,000 seems fair... Can we take our portions in Torch-trade when we return? I find myself fascinated with your work here and the potential of it."

He then looks at Thawm and Basil.


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"Of course. I know I would prefer the coin get reinvested back into Torch."

Khonnir chimes in again, "Might be worth asking the android what she knows of the city. She is actually at the temple with Joram. Things are going well, I believe."


Female N Human Wizard / Cleric 4 | HP: 27/27 | AC: 10 (10 TAC, 10 FAC) | CMB: +3, CMD: 13 | F: +5, R: +2, W: +8 | Init: +4 | Perc: +3 | SM: +7 | Spells etc | Active conditions: Fastidiousness (+2 vs inhaled and ingested diseases)

Wow, 8000? ... I wonder if we can squeeze even more out of these guys...
After a moment's hesitation, Thawm chimes in.
"8000 is very generous, but I fear that we might need something more or something sooner in order to finish preparing for the job."
Diplomacy: get paid more/sooner: 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (7) + 6 = 13


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Ongoing Effects:
+2 Natural Armor, -2 Dex
HP: 32/36 | Grit 2/3 | Determination 1/2 | Judgement 1/2| RN: 0/1 | AC: 18 / T: 12 / FF: 16 | Fort: +6, Ref: +7, Will: +6 | CM6B: +3, CMD: 16 | Init: +5, Perception: +10 (Darkvision 60ft +Lowlight-Vision) |

The talks with the android had been going well, when suddenly, Basil finds herself unable to speak further.
As if some hidden fragment prevented her from freely expressing herself any more clearly than she already did.
When they leave, she quickly forgets about the incident, only remembering that no further words were needed to sway her sister.

The next two weeks, Basil keeps herself quite busy. During the day, she helps Khonnir and other chosen representatives map and analyze the underground structure, as well as making sure the generator operates safely.
At any other time, she could be found working on her weapon, or ammo for it - including working at the Torch itself, with Keldor.
Before long, the unwieldy Blunderbuss is rid of a few of the more time-worn parts, some new elements added made from the skymetal underground, a sleek, more efficient design able to be wielded effectively with one hand - and overall more reliable, too. Perhaps most importantly, it could feed ammunition from a optional slot for cartridges, allowing for incredibly fast reloading while cartridges were easily available.
FINALLY upgrading my starting firearm into a masterwork one. Instead of the 2000 GC Blunderbuss, into a 1000 GC Dragon Pistol. 1d6 instead of 1d8, but x4 multiplier on crits and more importantly: Free action reloads with cartridges and rapid reload.

_____________

During the meeting:"Hellion resides at Scrapwall. Hellion granted spells to my sister. That means it possesses a spark of Divinity, regardless of it's actual nature. His plan was aimed at Torch. 8000 GP does not seem appropriate. You are, in essence, asking us to topple an emerging god because he threatens the status quo in a dangerous way. Our likelyhood of survival going against his cult is quite low. Do not misunderstand: I intended to investigate Scrapwall, regardless of any payment you offer. But you did ask if the payment seemed fair, and for the task you place upon us, it seems dissatisfactory.",


Male 1/2 Elf Summoner(Synthesist)/Paladin Gestalt 4
Stats:
| HP 29/29| AC 17 (20 w/Smite), T 12 FF 15| CMB +5, CMD 17 (20w/Smite)| F 8, R 6, W 8 | Init +2, Perc +7 / Low-Light Vision| Temp:

Keldor smiles at the others as they discuss the adventure to come.

We will journey on to Scrapwall then. Together. It will be my job to keep them alive too. Me and Gauntlet. I must think on this...

He then pipes up with a distinctly different look, now all business.

"When do we leave? How far to Scrapwall? Do you know anybody there we can contact or use as a safe contact for local information or other help?"


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Dolga starts to speak up, but Khonnir puts a hand out, "Sorry all, the 8,000gp is really all the town can afford. We have been out of commission for awhile, and we have come to realize we don't have the deepest emergency fund in Numera. We relied heavily on the torch. While it was not working a lot of funds went to the people of the city. Keeping things... semi normal."

Dolga seems to calm down behind him. Khonnir continues, "Though I will speak with Joram about some of his stock. While the torch was down, we actually needed less curative items. Less injuries. Maybe there is a bit of a surplus currently. I can check with him."[b]

Turning to Keldor, [b]"As for a contact. All I know of that town, if you could call it that, is that is a pile of junk. Run by low lifes. Orcs, Ratfolk, and others who just wish to dig through scrap. Hence its name. Though Meyanda would likely know more. I think she would cooperate with some questions about the city, at least. She has not wanted to give up too much info about her.. previous patron, but maybe some info about the town she would be more willing to share"


Female N Human Wizard / Cleric 4 | HP: 27/27 | AC: 10 (10 TAC, 10 FAC) | CMB: +3, CMD: 13 | F: +5, R: +2, W: +8 | Init: +4 | Perc: +3 | SM: +7 | Spells etc | Active conditions: Fastidiousness (+2 vs inhaled and ingested diseases)

"Sounds like a good starting point." Thawm replies, cutting Keldor off before he can answer.
"Thank you, Khonnir."
Thawm moves to wait by the door for the others.


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Male 1/2 Elf Summoner(Synthesist)/Paladin Gestalt 4
Stats:
| HP 29/29| AC 17 (20 w/Smite), T 12 FF 15| CMB +5, CMD 17 (20w/Smite)| F 8, R 6, W 8 | Init +2, Perc +7 / Low-Light Vision| Temp:

Keldor looks at Thawm, then the door, and then Khonnir.

"Thanks again my friend. I'm glad to see you feeling so much better. We shall discuss our route forward and let you all know our...starting point as soon as possible."

He then turns to follow Thawm, passes her and out the door.


Male 1/2 Elf Summoner(Synthesist)/Paladin Gestalt 4
Stats:
| HP 29/29| AC 17 (20 w/Smite), T 12 FF 15| CMB +5, CMD 17 (20w/Smite)| F 8, R 6, W 8 | Init +2, Perc +7 / Low-Light Vision| Temp:

Going to speak with the Android about Scrapwall info?


Female N Human Wizard / Cleric 4 | HP: 27/27 | AC: 10 (10 TAC, 10 FAC) | CMB: +3, CMD: 13 | F: +5, R: +2, W: +8 | Init: +4 | Perc: +3 | SM: +7 | Spells etc | Active conditions: Fastidiousness (+2 vs inhaled and ingested diseases)

yes, that ^^


Website with game info

Leaving Khonnir's forge and heading out, this time going to the temple to meet with the android woman.

When you arrive they are outside in a junk yard talking and looking at a variety of scrap. Both Joram and Meyanda.

When you walk up, Joram sees the three of you, "Well it looks like we have guests". Meyanda turns as well, when she sees you she still looks the humans over in a way that might not be comfortable. Like she is looking for weak areas, but the rest of her posture is relaxed and she is holding a small machine in her hand.

She speaks up, "I assume you are here to check on me. See what has changed with my patterns."


Female N Human Wizard / Cleric 4 | HP: 27/27 | AC: 10 (10 TAC, 10 FAC) | CMB: +3, CMD: 13 | F: +5, R: +2, W: +8 | Init: +4 | Perc: +3 | SM: +7 | Spells etc | Active conditions: Fastidiousness (+2 vs inhaled and ingested diseases)

"Sure." Thawm answers, before quickly changing the subject.
"Also Scrapwall. Know anything about it?"


Male 1/2 Elf Summoner(Synthesist)/Paladin Gestalt 4
Stats:
| HP 29/29| AC 17 (20 w/Smite), T 12 FF 15| CMB +5, CMD 17 (20w/Smite)| F 8, R 6, W 8 | Init +2, Perc +7 / Low-Light Vision| Temp:

Looking at Thawm, Keldor lightly touches her shoulder and points at his chin with his other hand.

"My turn."

He then replies to the Android.

"We are now responsible for you and anything you do. If not technically, then figuratively. We are interested in your thoughts and current frame of mind of course. We hope you are doing well too of course. Our current goal is to approach Scrapwall. Any help or information you can provide would be very useful and appreciated."


Website with game info

She looks at the group. Going slowly to each of you. "Scrapwall... Walls junk and refuse. Constantly being picked clean by the residence there. There are many gangs that live and run out of the city. There are some that are in no gangs, but usually everyone wants protection from one of them. They need to prove their scrap-worth to join a gang. The more scrap-worth you have, the less likely the gangs will turn to you in violence and agressivness. The current gangs, in order of power lowest to highest are, Steel Hawks, Redtooth's Raiders, the Smilers, and my old gang The Lords of Rust."

She continues on, "There are other, non offiliated, creatures in the city. There is a powerful worshiper of Brigh, a manticore, and undead."

With a bit of pride, she stands up tall and goes on, "The Lords of Rust now rule Scrapwall. They are ruled by Hellion. They are located in the center of the junkyard in a large structure called Scrapmaster's Arena. There are some underground chambers to the arena as well."

With a deadpan expression, "What more do you wish to know?"


Male 1/2 Elf Summoner(Synthesist)/Paladin Gestalt 4
Stats:
| HP 29/29| AC 17 (20 w/Smite), T 12 FF 15| CMB +5, CMD 17 (20w/Smite)| F 8, R 6, W 8 | Init +2, Perc +7 / Low-Light Vision| Temp:

With all seriousness, Keldor replies.

"Simple enough question. How can we infiltrate the 'city' so we don't have targets on our backs immediately? We want to gain intelligence fast so we can either engage the Lords of Rust, or report back to Torch as needed. Oh...and who is the Worshiper of Brigh? That sounds interesting. They could be an ally in the city if we are careful."


Female N Human Wizard / Cleric 4 | HP: 27/27 | AC: 10 (10 TAC, 10 FAC) | CMB: +3, CMD: 13 | F: +5, R: +2, W: +8 | Init: +4 | Perc: +3 | SM: +7 | Spells etc | Active conditions: Fastidiousness (+2 vs inhaled and ingested diseases)

Thawm listens silently, content to let Keldor ask the questions.

Note to self, find spells for destroying, repulsing, and/or controlling undead...


Ongoing Effects:
+2 Natural Armor, -2 Dex
HP: 32/36 | Grit 2/3 | Determination 1/2 | Judgement 1/2| RN: 0/1 | AC: 18 / T: 12 / FF: 16 | Fort: +6, Ref: +7, Will: +6 | CM6B: +3, CMD: 16 | Init: +5, Perception: +10 (Darkvision 60ft +Lowlight-Vision) |

Basil takes note of the small machine she is holding:"Hm? What is that?"
She then holds out the Androids gun: "I believe this is yours. I took the liberty of securing the plasmid chamber so it will hardly do damage, but I believe returning it as a gesture of goodwill is in order. In time, I may undo the modification. It was also an impressive inspiration when I reworked my own gun. Thank you."

Letting Thawm and Keldor ask her, she only rejoins in the end:"Is there any message or statement you would have us pass on to a former friend, aquaintance, or your previous master? I understand the fact he granted you spells may have provided a more direct connection, but all the same, I feel compelled to offer such a service."


Website with game info

--- Aside ---
After going back into the cave system and working on that battered door, the group eventually gets it open. Finding:

Timeworn Autograpnel[/url
Timewarn [url=https://www.aonprd.com/EquipmentTechArmorDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Panic%20suit]Panic Suit

Timewarn Emergency Beacon
2x Batteries
24 Silverdisks

------- Back to story ------
When she mentions a cleric, Joram looks over, "By any chance do you mean Dinvaya? A Half-Elf?"

Meyanda looks to him "I can not state with certanty that we are speaking of the same person, but there is a non zero percentage we are"

Joram turns to the group, "if you are in fact going to Scrapwall, you should try to find her. She is an old friend of mine. She was on the run from the Technic League. I have lost contact with her, though. If you do run across her, please let her know their interests in her have passed and she is welcome here. Take this" He takes his own personal symbol of Brigh and hands it over to the group, "This should allow you to earn her trust. If you are able to verify she is alive and deliver the message, and even better, bring her back, you are welcome to the extend rod I have been using to help with your water breathing"

Meyanda turns back to the group, waiting for him to finish before continuing. She reaches out and takes the gun, "I appreciate this gesture. It may not work as intended, currently, but it does bring some calm to have it with me. As for a method into the city. The entire city is surrounded by the wall. There is an entrance at the gatehouse, but that is blocked. The gate is controlled by the Steel Hawks. As you are unaffiliated, currently it is possible they will let you in. You must not look to be forces of law. They will turn away anyone who seems to disrupt their way of life. That being said, the Steel Hawks used to be the strongest gang before The Lords of Rust took over. They may enjoy hearing you wish to cause an issue with the Lords. Though I can not say for certain. I imagine your best bet would be to destabilize the nature of the gangs. Using their hatred of the Lords in your benifit. If you wish to avoid the front gate, you can always climb the wall as well. But where you enter the town will change what type of gang you encounter. I can draw a basic map if you wish"


Website with game info

She writes out a quick map, more detailed than you would think.

Map of Scrapwall with notes


Male 1/2 Elf Summoner(Synthesist)/Paladin Gestalt 4
Stats:
| HP 29/29| AC 17 (20 w/Smite), T 12 FF 15| CMB +5, CMD 17 (20w/Smite)| F 8, R 6, W 8 | Init +2, Perc +7 / Low-Light Vision| Temp:

Sighing, Keldor nods.

"Yes please, a map. I'm afraid bringing law to the lawless is something I'm committed to now. At least of a fashion. Also, we will have to be careful. It sounds like Gauntlet may bring too much attention, unless we have no choice to summon him. I will have to rely on my other abilities most of the time for this mission."

Grapple gun for the Android! Cool item. Wish they had a pistol version. I'm unsure what we can do with the beacon...but I have a feeling it will come in handy eventually. Is there a Panic suit too? Probably a good item for Thawm. I have my own suit already. I will take an extra battery or two if I can. I feel we will be giving my armor's stealth ability a workout sooner than later.


Female N Human Wizard / Cleric 4 | HP: 27/27 | AC: 10 (10 TAC, 10 FAC) | CMB: +3, CMD: 13 | F: +5, R: +2, W: +8 | Init: +4 | Perc: +3 | SM: +7 | Spells etc | Active conditions: Fastidiousness (+2 vs inhaled and ingested diseases)

rolls for timeworn objects:
gun charges: 1d20 ⇒ 12
suit charges: 1d10 ⇒ 6
beacon charges: 1d30 ⇒ 10

Pistol version? You mean BATMAN VERSION?
Also, I'm going to double check carrying capacity, but I think Thawm can carry all our spare loot in her haversack ^_^
Also, added lewt to lewt sheet, will figure out distribution later xD

"Thanks for your help." Thawm adds, curtly.


Website with game info

Yeah sorry. bad formatting. There is also a timeworn Panic Suit.


Male 1/2 Elf Summoner(Synthesist)/Paladin Gestalt 4
Stats:
| HP 29/29| AC 17 (20 w/Smite), T 12 FF 15| CMB +5, CMD 17 (20w/Smite)| F 8, R 6, W 8 | Init +2, Perc +7 / Low-Light Vision| Temp:

Panic suit is a one-use item. Only one charge.


Female N Human Wizard / Cleric 4 | HP: 27/27 | AC: 10 (10 TAC, 10 FAC) | CMB: +3, CMD: 13 | F: +5, R: +2, W: +8 | Init: +4 | Perc: +3 | SM: +7 | Spells etc | Active conditions: Fastidiousness (+2 vs inhaled and ingested diseases)

no worries about the formatting. I got the things just fine from the links and the... slightly broken formatting. So it still helped! xD
also, apparently I forgot to write the part where Thawm turns to leave...

Thawm turns to leave, wanting to make the final preparations for the team's journey as soon as possible.


Male 1/2 Elf Summoner(Synthesist)/Paladin Gestalt 4
Stats:
| HP 29/29| AC 17 (20 w/Smite), T 12 FF 15| CMB +5, CMD 17 (20w/Smite)| F 8, R 6, W 8 | Init +2, Perc +7 / Low-Light Vision| Temp:

Glancing at the map, Keldor nods and taps it with a finger.

"I hate to say it, but it looks like the 'Haunted' Section may be our best bet for getting in without being noticed. Does the Haunting have to do with Hellion at all?"


Website with game info

She consiters the question a bit "That region of Scrapwall is shrouded in mist. All sight beyond 5 feet is obscured. They also have a faint Necromancy aura to them. It is known to have undead in this area. All of the gangs avoid that area. It was believed a ship crashed in that area long ago.

I doubt you will be able to get far without some interaction with a gang or two. Your capabilities as I have assets them, don't lean towards full stealth. You may need to just build up a reputation within the city. Starting with acts for the gangs. Hopefully nothing outside your own personal code."


Female N Human Wizard / Cleric 4 | HP: 27/27 | AC: 10 (10 TAC, 10 FAC) | CMB: +3, CMD: 13 | F: +5, R: +2, W: +8 | Init: +4 | Perc: +3 | SM: +7 | Spells etc | Active conditions: Fastidiousness (+2 vs inhaled and ingested diseases)

Thawm turns back, ambivalent at the extra help "Perhaps we'll start with the area of the weakest gang, then. They'll probably be the most grateful for any help we can offer, and if things go sour, then at least we'll have the minimum amount of fighting-our-way-out to do."

Thawm looks back and forth between Keldor and Basil before turning to go again, half curious and half annoyed at the possibility that they'll want to ask the android for more.


Website with game info

She speaks up again, "Unless you wish to go about it through subtufuge, going in the front gate and being diplomatic. Moving though the city slowly might be the best way to move through... unnoticed. Even if you end up being more noticed. It will seem more normal."

I know everything is crazy right now. Just wanting to let you know I am still here. I can push you all forward, whenever you feel you are ready and have a general plan


Female N Human Wizard / Cleric 4 | HP: 27/27 | AC: 10 (10 TAC, 10 FAC) | CMB: +3, CMD: 13 | F: +5, R: +2, W: +8 | Init: +4 | Perc: +3 | SM: +7 | Spells etc | Active conditions: Fastidiousness (+2 vs inhaled and ingested diseases)

I think the only thing we haven't done is vote for the direct/indirect approach
I vote: just walk in the front gate xD


Male 1/2 Elf Summoner(Synthesist)/Paladin Gestalt 4
Stats:
| HP 29/29| AC 17 (20 w/Smite), T 12 FF 15| CMB +5, CMD 17 (20w/Smite)| F 8, R 6, W 8 | Init +2, Perc +7 / Low-Light Vision| Temp:

Keldor can't really bluff well as a Paladin, nor would he want to present himself as anything other than he is. I'm leaning toward stealth and climbing our way into the city through a back way somehow. Avoids most of the troubles if we do it right I think. Basil is the tire breaker?


Ongoing Effects:
+2 Natural Armor, -2 Dex
HP: 32/36 | Grit 2/3 | Determination 1/2 | Judgement 1/2| RN: 0/1 | AC: 18 / T: 12 / FF: 16 | Fort: +6, Ref: +7, Will: +6 | CM6B: +3, CMD: 16 | Init: +5, Perception: +10 (Darkvision 60ft +Lowlight-Vision) |

"If we are trying to be diplomatic, and use the gangs against the Lords of Rust, then I suspect we may need to choose who to make contact with. Is there anything else you can tell us about the Gangs laying claim to territories? Redtooth sounds like a sort of humanoid not represented in our make-up - which may complicate things. What about the Smilers and the Steel Hawks?", Basil asks one more question.

I would say claiming our own territory from those unclaimed sounds good :) But it seems the AP implies we should not go at it alone and instead play in politics there. If we can go in open and make contact with one of the groups without needing to hide Keldors nature, that would be preferable. If most would attack him on sight, we'll need to try being stealthy and find an option to tug strings from the shadows - which would complicate things considering our make-up.

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