Barackus reporting to claim some heads!
hey DM I know I still need to put my stats in the right order in my profile, just one of those little things I have not gotten around to doing.
I also have to figure out when to take proficiency with pistols. Maybe I will use my level 4 rogue talent for pistol training, and retrain a fighter feat to rapid reload pistol, since I will have xbow mastery by then.
Since I am new to this forum, I dont know all customs yet.
You asked us to put our opening posts in spoilers in the recruitment thread but the story is already on its way with more and more people joining in. Are you giving us ques one by one or are we free to start posting?
And will there be a separate thread for people on the shuttle, or will we be posting crisscross?
Just wondering is all.
It could work Balthe.
Swiftstab now that I have gotten the first group caught up, it is now the shuttle's personal introductions. Yup and here comes your Que! Swiftstab I really liked your post go ahead and put it up in gameplay.
We will be posting crisscross, though those in the shuttle could spoiler their actions if they want, to keep up with the mystery.
CL4P-TP, do you think this would be a good time to make your post or wait for the visitors come to you?
Hope the post is okay, not sure what's going on with the shuttle.
The post works great Elo, we are just throwing everything together and see how it works.
So we have seen so far:
Elo
CL4P-TP
Jack
York
Balthe Snyder
Five
Swiftstab
We are missing and may not play with us...
JiiJaa Redtail, who has not created an Avatar yet :(
F5174
You guys need to PM me before coming in.
Okay, I just haven't dealt with it before, I was just looking for clarification. So with two light weapons, and TWF, and rapid shot, Balthe's negatives would be correct of -2/-2 for each attack.
If that is the case then yea, I've only heard of it applying to throwing attacks before. The section refers to thrown, melee and double weapons for two weapon fighting (Not the feat but the combat section).
Let's consider it able then one thing to note ranged weapons don't have a 'Light' Category so if you are indeed doing both you have. Exception of light crossbow, you take -2 to hit if you are wielding one-handed however regardless of what is in your other hand:
-4/-4 for two weapon fighting with no light weapons
-2 from rapid fire.
So -6 to all attacks that round.
Light crossbow.
-2 for wielding it one handed.
-2 for it be light off hand.
-2 for rapid fire.
So still -6 to attacks.
You can not load it until you drop something from your other hand as well. Anyway that's my take on it.
Edit: Also let us consider that feats in the two weapon chain refer to gaining strength on your off hand attacks (which you do not get for ranged). Or gaining the monster ability Rend, which again is melee only. So as much as the feat itself does not refer to melee as RAI from looking at it I think it is melee only.
With exception of thrown and the light crossbow as it specifically says it can in the combat section and the weapon section for the light crossbow.
hand crossbow. Not light crossbow and I dropped the pistol.
it is like a dual wielding gunslinger. I did not add str to it, and I have never seen anyone argue that pistols or hand crossbows do not count as lihjt weapons. In any event dm and I discussed it over pm and reached an agreement.
as far as it only being melee I wholeheartedly disagree. And I think the forum will agree. I mean people do builds all the time w alchemist levels w extra arms to be able to relaod two pistols, or fight w two bows. Hell there is even a feat sword abd pistol which requires twf to take. Do you really think they made a feat like that so recently that does not work at all?
My mistake it was indeed hand, so it would be -4 not -6. You'd still need both hands to reload it unfortunately. (Though I think it would be cool to build a repeater bolt load onto it or somesuch)
I'm not accusing you have using str, I'm just saying that is where my interpretation is coming from. I admit I have not seen those builds and I'm just going off of what I am reading in the rules.
Coming from 3.5 as well I've never seen anyone attempt to use TWF for anything other than thrown. Though I don't actually see any issue with it personally. I just wanted to see what it was like RAW, unfortunately it seems vague at best.
With pistols and bows I can see that working. Though -4/-4 before rapid shot since there are no light pistols that I can see.
You'd be at hefty penalties with bows but the extra two hands don't actually give you more attacks, just that you can dual wield bigger things? You'd be at -4/-4 base for getting a single extra attack.
Edit: Actually, GMwolf what did you mean by single shot revolver? I'm guessing it has more than one bullet in it right?
Check it out "You can shoot a hand crossbow with each hand, but you take a penalty on attack rolls as if attacking with two light weapons."
Also as i mentioned in the post. I dropped the pistol to reload.
Cool :) so carry on!
So Jack I never played 3.5 at all. I assume that those are 3.5 classes? I have never heard of any of them. What ARE you?
I mean I know you made a new race, but beyond that.
They are actually pathfinder classes, converted from 3.5. 3pp ones but pathfinder nonetheless, Paizo doesn't really want to make them now that dreamscarred have actually done it. So ever stuck in the 3pp allowance list. It's on hero lab too if you use that.
erg. A lot of reading to be done for me.
so I totally want to get my hand crossbow and the pistol combined into a single weapon that would be sick!
indeed it would. especially since generally it takes two hands to load a ranged weapon. Firing with two hands is not the problem, its the loading. TWF and rapid shot are technically allowed together IF you can somehow manage to reload with only one hand or have a self-loading weapon
I'll add to my turn once I know what the effect of the failed fortitude save
Sorry for the triple post, apparently I cant change my post any more after a couple hours.
Jack, I have to admit I was kind of intimidated by your damage output and couldn't help but take a peak at your stats to see how you managed it. Unfortunately I had some difficulty reverse engeneering where exactly all the bonusses came from, so may I be so bold as to ask for a little breackdown of the attack and damage bonus of that full attack? Cause I seem to be finding some flaws in your math and reasoning:
- Multi-attack has 3 natural weapons as prerequisite. Temporary conditions, such as natural attacks from a spell or psionic power, do not count for meeting requirements when taking a feat
- When attacking with both natural attacks and manufactured weapons, all natural attacks count as secondary (and thus only get half strength and 1 point from power attack)
- Also, was kinda curious where the tentacles came from, couldnt find them among the power suits abilities menu
-Multiattacking I might be getting wrong, I usually have my hands and two tentacles which all count as natural weapons. Only temporary abilities can stop me taking the feat. My natural weapons are permanent except in a anti-psionic field, as in I can keep them for 24+ hours thus qualify for the feat.
-I'd like to see that rule as I don't know it. However the generated bite is a primary attack. I have corrected the sheet recently to only apply +Str as that was my mistake (I had it listed as 1-1/2 Str by mistake). The tentacles are listed as secondary weapons correctly.
-Aberrant Archetype: The aberrant grows a tentacle and gains a secondary natural attack with the tentacle that deals 1d4 points of damage. The aberrant also gains the grab ability and gets a +2 bonus to grab for every tentacle beyond the first he has. This customization can be selected up to 4 times; its benefits stack.
I have selected it twice so far.
there is an odd rule about using natural attacks and weapons as well, but I do not know them...i think it is -4 but don't quote me
Regardless if a natural attack is listed as primary, if you also make attacks with a manufactored weapon they are considered secondary..
Natural Attacks Most creatures possess one or more natural attacks (attacks made without a weapon). These attacks fall into one of two categories, primary and secondary attacks. Primary attacks are made using the creature's full base attack bonus and add the creature's full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Secondary attacks are made using the creature's base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature's Strength bonus on damage rolls. If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature's full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature's Strength bonus on damage rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one. If a creature has only one type of attack, but has multiple attacks per round, that attack is treated as a primary attack, regardless of its type. The natural attacks by size table lists some of the most common types of natural attacks and their classifications.
Some creatures treat one or more of their attacks differently, such as dragons, which always receive 1-1/2 times their Strength bonus on damage rolls with their bite attack. These exceptions are noted in the creature's description.
Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their available natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack's original type.
Some creatures do not have natural attacks. These creatures can make unarmed strikes just like humans do. See the natural attacks by size table for typical damage values for natural attacks by creature size.
So all your weapon attacks would be a full bonus, full str to damage.. All tentacles/bites etc would be a full bonus -5, half str to damage..
I never liked that rule always seemed to harsh to me.
I don't doubt there is probably a rule somewhere, I'd like to see it though as over the course of the campaign I will be gaining lots more natural attacks and I do want to stay on top of things. I don't mind being at -2 and half str for all them. I'm just currently going off what an eidolon can do with his natural weapons + manufactured as all its primary attacks stay primary regardless of the weapon from what I remember.
Damage breakdown for those interested: 24 Str, +2 damage boost +3 weapon boost (+2 for single handed weapons/arms)
2 handed greatsword: +10 (1-1/2 str), +3 PA, +2 damage boost, +3 weapon. Total +18.
Primary attack bite: +7 Str, +2 PA, +2 damage boost, +2 weapon. Total +13.
Secondary teantcles: +3 Str, +2 damage boost, +2 weapon, +1 PA. Total +8.
Increased size:
2d6 > 3d6
1d8 > 1d10
1d4 > 1d6
So buffed damage would be 3d6+18, 1d10+13, 1d6+8, 1d6+8. There were couple of errors in my post that I have sorted out so that damage would've been 72 damage.
If reduced to half str on my primary bit take off 5 damage from the bite.
Edit: And you've posted the rule, cool! Going have a look see.
Right will change the bite attack to secondary in my normal full swing of attacks so new damage is:
3d6+18, 1d10+8, 1d6+8, 1d6+8, with the penalties in place. (Average on all hits: 65, which is still fine in my book, I'm not expecting all those secondary attacks to hit constantly.)
(If I need another Natural attack to qualify for the Multiattack feat I'll buy it off with a customization and gain another 1d6+8 to damage.)
lol this is why I don't make these characters so confusing.
I always thought the attacking with a weapon and nat attacks should scale. So sword at full Bab primary at S2, first secondary at -4 and the rest at -6 or somethin like that
Well natural attacks don't gain iterative attacks so I just need to keep track of how much damage and attack my natural attacks are at. Then I do that multiply by the number I have. So it won't be too bad to keep track of I don't think. I just need to be sure to purchase permanent magic fangs somewhere later to keep the attack rolls scaling up.
I am curious to know how it actually works. Here are the two things that I have NEVER understood
if you attack w a weapon what happens to your primary nat attacks and your secondary attacks?
what is the rule for primary then secondary attacks?
I think Werepox quoted everything in the rules.
One primary: 1.5x Str, Full Bab.
One primary and multiple other primaries that are the same type : All are at 1.0x str, Full bab.
One primary and all other secondary: Primary at 1.0x str, full bab. Secondary -5 attack, 0.5x str unless you have multiattack (most monsters do) for -2.
Manufactured weapon and any other natural attack: 1.0x or 1.5x depends on how many hands you are using with it, Full Bab. Secondary -5 attack, 0.5x str, unless you have multiattack.
ah missed that spoiler. On my phine.
such a cool build. Balthe might have a little crush
Ah, check, should have sought under the aberrant archtype indeed, my bad.
You are correct, tentacles count towards multi-attack. The bite however, which only last 2 minutes if I am correct, so that one does not count, leaving you one natural weapon short.
those rules for natural weapons and strength bonuses can be found in the bestiary page 301/302
One more thing though:
The aberrant gains vim as a psi-like ability usable at will at first level as long as he maintains psionic focus.
This ability replaces Astral Repair.
Ehm... shouldn't the tentacles be counted as "light weapons"? If natural weapons can be counted at all for the improved damage ability
The aegis’s melee attacks deal additional damage. If wielding a two-handed weapon, the aegis deals 3 additional points of damage on a successful hit. If wielding a one-handed weapon, the aegis deals 2 additional points of damage on a successful hit. If wielding a light weapon, the aegis deals 1 additional point of damage on a successful hit. If dual-wielding, each weapon is affected separately.
doesn't say anything about natural weapons, though that can be debated and is not up to me
Ow and what exactly is that standard +2 damage bonus for all attacks? Its not the improved damage ability from the power suit, cause that is the +3 weapon thing right?
I am indeed missing vim, original build was a trailblazer. Though I don't think I'll every really use it, I guess I could start every battle with one temp hp for the fun of it!
If I need another attack to qualify I'll definitely take it though I want to stretch out when I get it (I want to have a steady power build instead of people looking at me and my 7 attacks at level 2. Yes... yes I could do that.. no I don't want to) so I'll ask for a DM ruling here.
Can I get Multiattack now with my unarmed and two naturals or would you wish me to take another attack now?
The build is damaging yes though you'll note I have the lowest defenses in the party? So it does have flaws. In melee I'm a grappler and Natural weapon user. Rocking CMB +16 while grappling. Out of combat I have good disguise, intimidate and ability to detect emotions. As well as the ability to swim, burrow or look like anyone I've seen so kind of a doppelganger monster fighter.
Edit: +2 insight damage is from another spell: Prescience I won't be getting that one up often I don't think.
Looking at the Natural weapon section it just says that they are 1/2 Str but I am happy to count them as light weapons for the sake of improved damage.
Power attack does specifically say that it is secondary natural attacks and light weapons. So that's why I applied +1 PA instead of +2 but looking through the rules there is no defined ruling. There's even question in the rules forum gone answered about it. Odd, thought that one would be sorted, again going to have a ruling from the DM on this one. I do not mind whichever way ;)
mind boggle at the variables.
GM, any chance of some description of what we're looking at? When you say hole, do you mean one of the holes in the side of the ship?
Honestly I would say the tentacles are light weapons, considering the 1d4 damage for a medium. Yes it would make sense that PA would confer a +1 to the tentacles.
Don't forget about tracking ==> Trailblazer class
Yes, mind boggling. :P
Well Jack, I'm glad to see you take my inquiries with such sportmanship. And I have to concede to the multi-attack thing, it indeed would be rather easy to get that third tentacle. Not taking it to have a bit of scaling would indeed be a good reason to let that one slip and simply allow you the feat. ;)
I have to say, I kinda respect your positive attitude and wont bother you any longer. Its a solid build with very impressive damage output. Even if I could reason 20 or so points of it, it would still have killed the redcap with more then double its hitpoints.
Why is this not showing in my campaigns tab?
@GMwolf: Will correct "improved damage" customization for your ruling then. Also dammit, thought I corrected that survival to UMD. Why is that still there?! Bah going to correct that too! :P
@Swiftstab: It was my first time making a natural attack build in PF so I welcome the scrutiny. I think we shaved most of the damage off from the primary bite becoming secondary but doesn't stop the build being what I wanted it to despite the lower damage. I think the damage output is still quite good and has it's drawbacks. Anyway, we have everything sorted now let's get to the fun!
Sorry WerePox/Johnny, I had taken off WerePox from active players for previous posts 'Barackus'. It is fixed now! :)
It should show up for all Avatars now.
Cool map, I like it.
Thanks, just reforging to make things look cool, then adding items that you can grab or move, literally with your characters and players alike.
Spoiler!!! Considering you only have a certain amount of time before it explodes!!!! We should know this soon enough from Jack and those around the service bot.
2 trolls, 2 psycho's and 2 archers. And thats just on the outside of the shuttle. Still haven't found my weapons, no surprise, no-one to flank with and below 50% of my health, dancing around a ticking time-bomb the size of a shuttle... this is gonna be a rough ride...
Yes, I kept adding things to make the objects more clear.
York and Elo, what is up? I have not seen a post from either of you for a day...
Everybody, if you have optimum times of when you post please post it here so we can see what schedules will be working. I know a few of you are in Europe, but I am sure it can still work out. We will see...
Heyo- sorry I have exams over the next few days, posting might wither a little but afterwards I'll be back up to full speed. Please feel free to bot me.
my schedule varies, but i can usually phone post throughout the day, though they are usually not as exciting and I cannot see a map then. I am on CA time.
Come to me gobbo! I will flank with you!
I cant post while at work, but should be able to place one in morning after I wake up, one in the evening and if I'm lucky, afternoon just before or after shift, depending which shift I have. So should be fine.
Will try Balthe!
Hey swiftstab, out of curiosity, what is giving you the '+22MWtool' bonus on your Stealth check? I've never heard of that item.