A note to all my active games: I'm in the process of preparing for my candidacy exam for the next few weeks, and I've decided to make a commitment to check my PbPs at most 1/day. I'll probably still be somewhat active, just, not as manic about it as usual.
You will probably need the breaks. I assume this is equivalent to the PhD qualifier I did so many ages ago. Major PITA that was.
Alrighty, Life has calmed down and this new comp is all set up and ready to go.. though I still need to fix Java.. lets see what I missed. Yvell shall do as he does.
(If you guys want to all step back, we could, though one person would probably need to take a withdraw action instead of a 5' step)
Nah, it's more fun this way.
Double barreled doesnt grant double attacks anymore, I had assumed you used the Standard action pull this time. Basically Double barreled is really only Vital strike fodder now.
Ugh, I forgot that the eighteenth or whatever errata of Ultimate Combat apparently nerfed everything. What are the new rules?
They nerfed so much for little reason out of like 100 errata nerfs like 5-7 were needed and then some of them went too far. The rule is now its a standard action to fire both barrels at the same time. Thus Vital Strike Fodder. As I said, they nerfed martial options... I believe you were appreciative of said nerfs?
I mean, double-barrel pistols probably did need a nerf. Ah well, guess that means I also get a +4 to the attack I took...
Yeah, actually double barreled pistols did need a nerf. They did all kinds of other stupid things before without ever solving this actual problem (like making the number of free actions an arbitrary number subject to GM whim as a way to solve the issue of gunslingers using double barreled pistols).
That wasnt a doubled barreled issue, its the same 'issue' that archer's use and no one bats an Eye. Hell right now if we compared Granmmanar to Juxt, Juxt would make him cry tears of blood. Thats more a problem of Ranged is teh winzors.
They indeed just needed that Standard Action clause. But ALOT of other things didnt need nerfs.
Either way Grammanar wouldnt get that second set of attacks, The choice now is, one attack with both barrels or a Full attack..
Hrmm In not so sure what Perdix is gunn do now.. Grease could help but he can just as likely not do that. Might lock us in this position and not advance and oozes cant be tripped.
It is dismissable, so I can use it.
I had forgotten. And remembered, then forgotten again. Yvell goes on a 2 so literally everyone else goes then him. I generally post if what you all do wont effect my actions... but when it can I have to stop.
Oh! Because of the Haste thing. Probably full attack makes more sense. That would be first and second attack at +5 from what I rolled, third attack at -1 from what I rolled, no fourth attack.
If I shoot double-barreled, it's still much higher in damage than vital strike, to the tune of 2d8+10 vs 2d8+20 damage.
And Yvell: Grammanar isn't an optimized gunslinger at all; he's a techslinger, built to use heavy lasers (once we find some). I've played archery rangers, bolt aces, and double-barreled pistoleros. Bows are extremely good, but dual-wielded double pistols dwarfs their damage output around level 11 when enemies' touch AC starts to decrease with power. By level 20, pre-nerf, a gunslinger could realistically make 16 attacks per round and expect 14-15 of them to hit, which (with crit ranges) would deal about 19 hits worth of damage. The archery character is making 6 attacks per round and expecting 4 of them to hit, with manyshot and crits improving it to around 6 hits worth of damage (or 8 if they've got a wanded familiar abusing Named Bullet).
Inquisitor or Ranger can pump up damage per hit a bit, but otherwise the pistol is dealing more damage than the longbow.
Just a heads up i will be out of town this weekend and i dont think i will have internet access so posting may be delayed.
Val/Perdix, were you taking actions this round?
I dismissed grease. If there's yet another round, I'm waiting to see if talk works.
Nope trying to talk.
What is it with these rolls...
It doesnt help Phylla could have fixed this an eon ago but she only listens like.. half the time. And Perdix put down more grease... fun. Guess I gotta wade through it. Its funny how Muga suddenly wanted to run away.
Ugh, Im pretty sure it s like.. a grenade or whatever. And alot of effort is being made to make this so difficult. The curse of being a pally, Im sure I wont even die to it. Unfortunately I only have one set of actions. Grammanar you think you can wrangle the bag from her?
Disarming will be a bit trickier if Amplified Rage has expired, but I'll try this.
It expires when you are not next to someone else, it comes back when you are.. and they are also raging.. you were sitting back for a few rounds and my ability only makes morale bonuses stick 2 rounds later.
I'd like to say to Valtyra and the GM happy Belated Anniversary as it seems we've been gaming for a year. Congrats.
Yes I realize how that sounds between Val and Yvell...
Thanks and congratulations for staying for so long!
Oh you!
Muga: you realize Dead Shot is just a slightly better Vital Strike, right? (With the only difference being crit range, and you're probably going to wind up with a keen nodachi anyway)
Also, literally half of what my summoner does is spam haste. It actually gets kinda boring.
Haste, and the necessity of it, is in my opinion, one of the worst facets of Pathfinder.
Recently, whenever I've been GMing Pathfinder, instead of letting my players look at the spell lists, I just ask them what kind of caster they want to be and we come up with spells collaboratively. Same thing with feats. There is just so much disparity between strong choices and weak choices.
~~
Yeah, but, you know, right this instant, when I missed by rolling a two, I wish it worked like Dead Shot.
Haste is less necessary and more if you DONT have it you better be pretty well off. Our group before had a caster who tried to avoid generally good spells like Haste, which was fine. There just were times where it might have been more useful and luckily we were well off regardless.
In this particular situation Yvell COULD actually make your attack hit, but Im not sure Muga would like that. As he tends not to take much help from Yvell. Do you want Yvell's help?
Muga: you realize Dead Shot is just a slightly better Vital Strike, right? (With the only difference being crit range, and you're probably going to wind up with a keen nodachi anyway)
Also, literally half of what my summoner does is spam haste. It actually gets kinda boring.
As to your summoner, I'm not sure what to tell you I tend to have fun with the Eidolon and spells list (Normal Summoner not Unchained) So I pick whatever fits that particular version and flavor them accordingly.
Haste is... very situational. If you're a monk or TWFighter, it matters a lot less; if you're always moving (either because that's how battles work or you're doing mounted combat) it also matters a lot less. But yeah, it gets annoying.
My summoner is definitely fun—but he's the party face, which means he tends to dominate outside of combat (I once got a quest boss to kill himself by rolling a nat 20 for 43 on bluff at level 6), so I try to make my first combat priority keeping the other party members relevant.
Actually Haste isnt situational at all. It's a generally god buff that offers no downsides. I meant more you could do without, but it requires alot of effort on your side.
Even in your examples.. it helped alot (did you mean matters more for the first?)
TWF and Monk like/need haste as the extra attack, +1 to attacks and movement is pretty boss. Same with a Charger. The spell is very good. It's like a scholarship IRL. You can do without, but it doesnt make the extra money any worse.
Btw Muga I'm talking about the Spell, Gallant Inspiration
Mounted cavaliers and vital strike barbarians are getting very little from haste. Monks don't get the speed boost (it doesn't stack), and are likely throwing down 5-10 attacks per round, so the extra attack (at lower damage because 1H) doesn't matter as much.
Sure, it's not *bad*, but there are definitely times when Black Tentacles or Glitterdust is a far more useful option.
Anyone actually making a vital strike build probably isn't really in the realm of optimal anyway, so I wouldn't much care. The Cavalier is a special case, and yes doesn't need haste. Doesn't hurt them though.
Black Tentacles is a level higher and usually screws things up for melee people.
Glitterdust is a great utility spell, but you have to build specifically if you want it to have a high enough DC to actually be a save or suck (I have not), and even then it is a save every round.
Perdix is built as someone who buffs and does utility spells. However I seem to not run into places where the utility has been so useful. I'll have to consider my loadouts more carefully.
I play alot in society and while haste is nice, usually you can get by just fine without. Black Tentacles is a nasty spell. I've seen it almost kill people a few times.
No spell is mandatory, not even haste. I just know that when I play a melee character, I love people who cast haste. Actually I love it on ranged characters. Anything but a spellcaster loves haste IMO.
I play alot and played alot of society as well and I would say the opposite, in general haste is good.. REALLY GOOD. And unfortunately alot of spells are indeed assumed/mandatory for better or worse. Not that haste IS mandatory but we can all agree that if the situation is used against the party it GENERALLY means bad times on a big scale.
Ill go through Grammanars points first.
The spell in it's entirety is a buff and adds to pretty much every facet of combat to increase effectiveness.
It is at its base a force multiplier spell (Meaning the more people the scarier it gets) and even for an individual is enough of a game changer boots and an armor have it for 10 rounds.. which is significant in practice.
Mounted Cavs and Vital Strike Builds indeed tend tot have one attack. However to get that one attack they must first reach the target and ensure they deliver the strike. The combination of the extra +30 movement speed secures that. Your enemy cannot effectively Withdraw away from you a neutralize your Shtick because you catch them. Thats big. Monks dont NOT get the speed boost until 9th or so level and up until then they have enjoyed a +20 more movement. Which allows even the Fullplate wearing Dwarf to jump 10 ft gaps with ease. Movement speed allows casters to reposition with ease, even avoid being locked down by enemies because a full retreat forces the enemy to Full Run or worse be unable to keep up.
Until what 15th level monks arent getting more than 6 attacks usually with burning Ki all of which they gain the additional +1 from the haste spell to every attack increasing chance to land attacks across their routine AS WELL AS gathering the ability to have another strike with above bonus included at their highest, increasing overall damage. Generally at that time the rider effects and static damage make getting another hit mean quite a bit and thats assuming they arent using dragon style or other effects. There is no way you can say that isnt significant. And lets not ignore the fact haste as been doing this from level 5.
Let's not to discount the Bonus to AC and Reflex saves either
So yes, haste you can be fine without, but do not mistake being 'fine' without with it NOT being an amazing spell.
Glitterdust or Black tentacles require an insanely High caster stat or CL shenanigans to be scary especially when enemy CMD skyrockets as you fight bigger badder things. And As Perdix said, Glitterdust gives you a save.... every round.
If you're fighting 20 enemies at half your level, AoE control spells can be a big game-changer, though. But yeah; there are a few things that duplicate haste's effect in whole or in part (blessing of fervor, speed weapon) without which it would be more necessary.
Err... I spent a grit point to use one less charge when I fired.
Glitched.
Ah, read the glitch table wrong
Techslinger can spend extra grit to nullify glitches, but it's probably not worth it this time.
It might be. I predict we'll be resting after this battle.
Hrmm I would say it is, Either you dont and not get a shot and waste a charge or do and get a shot but waste a charge or Not waste a charge and get a shot but have no Grit though you might drop the enemy and get grit anyway.
It might be. I predict we'll be resting after this battle.
Why do you believe we will after? You mean resting like taking a break or sleep?
We're running low on resources, and these guys aren't pushovers. We're gonna probably take another 30-40 damage as a team, minimum.
Hunh? No we arent. The wizard is out of hastes because he didnt prepare them, Val hasnt used too many channels which those who take my rage I empower anyway. OOC taking damage is what we can mitigate/recover from. She has been using her 3rd level spells though. You havent used anything but one challenge.
Anything Im missing?
Oh, good point. Better to spend the grit this turn and do damage than not spend it and wait another turn. If it's not too late to have that be the case (but combat's moved on a bit further, so maybe not).
Not a problem, its a round of actions actually not even that The GM has not issue adjusting for small stuff and likely did not know you could prevent glitches.