There was some debate in the forums that didn't have a satisfactory resolution until I read the opinion of James Jacobs which says you should use the spell's casting time. Either way it had enough time to cast the spell before initiative, and that is why it was stalling, it just gets one dominate off rather than two.
I see now that spells vs spellcraft were FAQd so that you can ID them somehow magically even if there is no apparent effect. I hate this. If you cast a still silent charm person no one should be the wiser. I'm going to house rule this after this combat.
In order to resolve this it's going to switch to charm monster DC 21 on its combat turn instead. And I'll roll some spellcrafts to ID.
Does that sound fair?
Carrying this over from Gameplay.
I think that is an excellent house rule.
Magic need not have visible manifestations unrelated to the effect. Fireball? Yes. But Bestow Curse or Bless or Charm Monster? Why is it imperative to have a sparkly effect?
A central feature of humanity's folklore about magic, which informs fiction and RPGs, is that it can be subtle. There is no proof that the old lady next door cursed you. Or that the priest blessing you had any effect. Or that the mysterious stranger who just walked in the door is using sorcery to seduce your daughter. Elijah calling down a Flame Strike to pwn the Priests of Baal? Okay, sometimes it's obvious.
But the fact that magic can be subtle is so central to the concept of magic that it is hard to understand why Paizo established a rule preventing that.
If magic is not obvious, it could be anywhere and everywhere. Which is to me a more suitable fantasy world. I wish Paizo had not made the ruling that they did.
Hear, hear!
Whew! Thank you for the support. I was really worried it wouldn't go over well.
I’m fine with the house rule going forward. I appreciate you running as per the standard rules this time. As long as the house rules are known ahead of time, I’m generally fine with them. I like knowing what to expect rules-wise so I can prepare accordingly.
I’m fine with the house rule going forward. I appreciate you running as per the standard rules this time. As long as the house rules are known ahead of time, I’m generally fine with them. I like knowing what to expect rules-wise so I can prepare accordingly.
Of course. And for enchantments you still get a sense motive, which Kat automatically succeeds and Mara will very likely succeed to know something's wrong.
I really need to read up on how it works in PF2e. Hoping they changed it.
Haven't seen Mara wield her axe in a long time.
Did it choose to not take an AoO on Kat?
Did it choose to not take an AoO on Kat?
Correct. If it attacked Kat, Kat would attack it every turn which defeats the purpose of casting confusion. Moving was still a good plan.
I know :) that’s part of why she did it. Was hoping it would take the bait! Getting to the other side where there aren’t any close allies to accidentally hit still works
To be fair you almost got me. But there's no way it would make that mistake.
So what's the plan here?
Get the magic items in the cubby?
Tinker with the model to see what the switches do in the actual prison?
I have been very hesitant to tinker with the model without any idea of what might happen, but it seems we have no choice.
It doesn't look so bad to me. I assume we will see changes in the model by flipping levers, but have to flip the real (not model) levers to actually change the prison.
I suppose Mara could try to walk through a wall using Time Flicker (Blink) — would be really risky though.
I'm presuming that the plan is for Theo to Dimension Door through to the cellblock area, taking Dervak and Kat with him. Mara can use Time Flicker to Blink and walk through a wall (she might have to use several round duration, depending the luck or the die. There's a small chance (0.0015 %) that she could fail completely (assuming a 50% chance of being shunted backwards if she materialized in the middle of the wall).
Bracelet of Friends seems a better idea. Theophilus brings himself, Mara, and either Kat or Dervak, then you summon the other one.
That would work too.
@Kat: Are you able to see through a Sleet Storm spell? I'll change my spell selection if you can't.
@Mara - Dervak cannot see through a Sleet Storm and I really don't want to be useless in a fight like I was against the Denizens of Leng.
Battlefield control is really iffy and can backfire on melee types (as we have seen in the past with Web and Stinking Cloud).
Prep it if you want, but please be judicious about using it.
Eventually Dervak will get Echolocation but that's not until Level 13.
Should we enter the lever room and secure that area first?
The fact that the dragon seemingly wasted its turn makes me more nervous than if it had done something obvious. Using a psychic spell, most likely.
@Theo, did you apply both Augment Summoning and flanking to Killa Croc Co.? Think they might have +2 more to hit than you noted. Not that it matters much now, but maybe with Evil Eye and better dice...
Also, note that a miss by 5 or less takes out one of the figments:
If the attack misses by 5 or less, one of your figments is destroyed by the near miss.
Oh, right, I forgot to roll for that.
Maybe the crocs popped one or more of them. Probably not, though, their best AC hit was a 17.
So:
I'm working on the dragon's round when I have a little time between work things. Rolling to see if you hit the dragon was unnecessary.
So you have that in your post-in-progress? Cool.
Its kinda a good news/bad news thing
It's a trap!
Yeah, that's mostly bad news. Hot dice you have there.
Dervak could have chosen better in buffing. Like the scroll of Blink.
I might try Blade Lash. And maybe Barroom Brawler into something useful with the move action.
That would be a trip attempt at +32-ish. The dragon being prone would give it a -4 to all attacks, which might keep Dervak alive.
Well the good news is Dervak can't die from damage. He might go a little nuts tho. The adventure doesn't really pull any punches here.
Not liking our chances here. :(
I'm trying to figure out the best use of Mara's next Standard Action. She could try Slowing Mud — great if it succeeds, but the dragon likely has SR and a high Fort save (I don't think the spell would affect the constructs). She could heal Dervak with her Healing Hex, which might keep him up one more round. Or she could get Kat through with Heaven's Leap.
I think Healing Hex is the best of those options.
So I think my plan is to flex into Dirty Fighting and then cast Blade Lash. Cast defensively (at +10 vs DC 17), make the trip attempt while fighting defensively and using both Destined Strike (2 of 3) and Fortune.
That should be:
BAB +8, Str +8, Heroism +3, Blade Lash +10, Destined Strike +4, Defensively -4, Haste +1 = +30
Then if I trip the dragon, it is at -4 to hit and my AC is 33. That should buy another round.
As best as I can tell, Blade Lash does not remove the AOO from attempting a Trip, so Dirty Fighting while flanking is the solution.
Time to bail on this?
Close the doors and try to wake up?
Or try to heal Dervak and fight on?
I'd like him to be healed to consciousness if the plan is to wake up, if possible.
I think we'll have to retreat (wake up). I don't look forward to figuring out how to get back here, but I don't think we have a reasonable chance of succeeding now.
Either way, we definitely need to stall for a round or two to heal Dervak. I'll study the big guy again and close the doors while the rest of you fall back around the corner for healing. Ideally, I'd like to have Kat five foot step into Theo's square at the end of her turn so the dragon will be ending its turn in spear range if it opens the door. A fortune on Kat or Misfortune on the dragon from Theo would be lovely, too (misfortune isn't mind-affecting, so would still work, and it lasts 2 rounds at this level). We can reassess once we see what the dragon does.
I'm up for trying to finish it if the rest of you are. We've already gotten a decent amount of damage on it and it sounds like a pain to get back here. I could also start going whole-hog with spending inspiration, since either way, we are done for the day after this.
Theo can get Dervak conscious with a Healing Hex, but getting him back into fighting shape?
Mara doesn't have spontaneous casting of healing spells and has 2 CLW prepped. We have some potions of CMW. Theo I think can use Accursed Hex to heal Dervak a second time, not sure about that. Theo might do better to prep more CSW than SM3 next time.
Maybe we can stall the dragon long enough to heal up Dervak, but it depends on what it does when we close the doors and how durable those doors are.
Yeah, it all depends. I think it's worth seeing where we are at in a turn or two before we make the call.
I can hit and run pretty well as long as I have space thanks to the spear and my ridiculous snake style bonus (to block the AoO I'll trigger from moving), but there isn't a lot of room to keep that up long.
Theo plans on retraining away from Summoning. Not really a fan. I thought about changing out to Cures!
Summoning has a lot of value especially for a small (4-PC) group. One tactic for us to use would be better coordination.
For example, Mara could wait to use Haste until after your summons appear. That would greatly increase their value. And once Dervak has Good Hope at L10, he can use that with the Encouraging rod for a +3 to everything.
With Clairvoyance or Arcane Eye or something like that, we could see where the foes are and summon/buff before entering a room.
As fun as Killa Croc is, there are summons that can hurt a dragon without hoping for a nat 20 - like lantern archons. Though summoning squads of angels is not all that in keeping with the Lovecraftian feel.
Summons that are intelligent and can understand us would help with tactical positioning. Maybe Aid Another. Elementals could work. The long casting time of summons (risks attack and prevents using Cackle) means that casting a lower-level summons usually isn't worth the risk. If you're going to take that risk, you want the most bang for your buck.
I have been using Animals to take advantage of Diabolical Dabbler, but, that hasn't really made much difference. I only did the 1d3 Summons hoping to take attacks away from Dervak.
I think that I will replace lower Summons with Cures after this...lol.
@Mara - what are the cleric spells you know from your FCB?
@Kat - sorry for unilaterally deciding to bail, but realizing that Rage ends with unconsciousness, and therefore that Dervak would be Fatigued, made it pretty clear we could not win this one. Can't force Mara to spend 3 rounds using the wand on him while the dragon gets the door open and resumes using its breath weapon.
Spells from FCB: Ant Haul, Liberating Command
Will be picking up Blessing of Fervor next level.
Using the FCB costs a HP each time, so it's not something to be done lightly.
Resist Energy is on both the bloodrager and shaman lists, but Communal Resist Energy is on neither. So that is one I wondered if you had. The action economy and spell slot economy is better.
And the other I thought of was Prayer. Dervak has Fate's Favored so it would be a nice boost. But maybe he can find some way to cast Divine Favor.
The good news for Kat is that most Large dragons only have 10' reach with their bite, and it can't 5' step to full-attack her because of the hard corner. So Snake Style works for another round. If it breathes, Theo is going down but Kat might make it with Inspiration on the save.
Sorry Dervak is not here, but at 10 hp and Fatigued, he would not even be a speed bump. My fault for bad positioning on my withdrawal.
I would suggest taking damage on your wakeup attempts. As much as you think you can tolerate in the waking world.
Dragons have their weaknesses and we can take it if we prepare for it.
I'm trying to slow it down so it can't full attack us at least. I just can't see Kat leaving if Theo and Mara are still struggling to wake up. If it gets her a minor insanity from dying, that's just a cost she's gonna have to pay.
Theophilus actually enjoys the insanity(s).