I found a replacement for Windsight. I will be bringing them in ASAP. Updates likely tomorrow :-)
Updates pending. New player introduction at the end of the round!
Hello there! I would be said new player. Here's to a good game ahead.
Welcome aboard Shara!
A quick question: What is your chronology of residing in Sandpoint? Gone from age 9 until just recently? Any time back from Magnimar in between? Trying to determine who if any of us might know you.
Gone from about 14 (five years ago) until a few weeks ago. Spent all of that time in Magnimar studying at the mage's college there. No real visits home during that time aside from maybe a few days break during the summer. I'd probably know anyone who was around when they were kids.
Alright, we would overlap by about a year, ages 13 and 12 respectively. Ro might need a tipoff from somebody else, it's been a while :)
Aye, and I came after you left, so we don't know each other.
Still, welcome, fellow caster!
Lia planned to omit blasting, going for controls/utility/debuffing. Of course, she has more flexibility with spell preparation, but if you could share your general plans on what type of casting you plan to cover mostly(I assume human FCB mitigates things a bit), that would be helpful regarding coordination.
Also, my mistake. On the Boards, I got a Spherecaster with Easy Focus, a Gnome with Effortless Trickery and a Bard with Spellsong.
If you did not recognize the pattern: I am not fond of Concentration taking a Standard-Action :)
But Lia has no such reduction, so I will need to use the standard to focus and use the move to get away from the Altar. Cannot drop Concentration before I'm unable to see it. :P
I'm going for a combination of blasting and battlefield control, mostly through evocation and enchantment. Walls, stunning spells, confusion, that sort of thing.
Oh thank god.
=>
Its about time Lightning Bolts and Fireballs (eventually) get used again!
(No offense Lia!)
You have no idea how many games I'm in that have 'pacifist' sorcerers in it! One or two? Sure. 4? That's just...ugg. Sorcerers were meant to blast things to bits in my silly opinion. That's half the fun of the class!
=)
Shara's thing is that powerful evocations are in her blood. She's sort of descended from Runelord Alaznist.
I'm also looking at doing a silly side thing where I can combine some of my bloodline abilities with some feats to get massive Intimidate checks to demoralize everything nearby. If Skill Unlocks are allowed (sorry, forgot to ask the GM), I can make things not immune to fear or mind-effecting flee in terror from my massive explosions.
*smiles*
No offense taken, Karmid.
Matter of fact, I agree, Sorcerers are great at blasting things! Love doing that.
Wie Lia, it's more about her persona and her theme, of altering reality in different ways...I did mention debuffs, and control includes stuff like the pit spells, so screw pacifism - also unbuffed summons to provide meat shields and some muscle.
I just don't see her as the "sling a scorching ray"-kind of gal. ^_^
@Shara: Sounds good. Between both of us, we'll have control locked down. I'll try and not overlap too much with my prepared stuff.(But Shadow Evocation/Enchantment/Conjuration will "cover" many needs there, anyway).
Plus it makes me feel less bad about bending over backwards to access Sphere Singer over Stargazer with the rebuild.
Sounds good to me too. I was considering going for Runeguard actually, but it doesn't really mesh with my build.
Had not considered Skill Unlocks, what do the rest of you think?
I think if someone is willing to pay the Signature Skill Feat, then it's quite reasonable to allow them. Some are powerful, but they are hardly broken(especially considering in a normal campaign you mostly only get to play with the 5 and 10 rank boni)
Right now...no objections.
I don't know much about them. Let me check them out.
EDIT: Looks OK to me.
No objections to skill unlocks. A couple look pretty good, but I don't think Ro can spend the feat considering archery feats needed and VMC.
Okay, I'm not doing a 'is she really a person?' thing. You can either suspend your disbelief for ten seconds and deal with a new party member showing up, or I'll just not play. I'm not dealing with something that is both stupid and cliche.
Um, we've been dogged by a doppleganger ever since we entered the glassworks. It's neither dumb nor cliche. It's practically a reflexive reaction to familiar people popping up where they shouldn't quite be at this point. Cautious and sensible.
Don't now what to tell you, Shara's timing is bad. Is that really such a problem for you to deal with?
You may want to catch up on the game before throwing that tantrum.
We KNOW for a fact that a doppelganger is on the loose.
It first pretended to be Ameiko when we came looking for her.
It then pretended to be me.
It quite possibly pretended to be the daughter of a dead priest that supposedly is dead herself.
And it's around here.
If you simply show up in the dungeon with "hi guys" after 5 years of absence, while we're all on high alert regarding a known doppelganger who can read surface thoughts, then thats not on us.
Easy suggestion: Throw out some aspect of your mutual past with those who remember you, something they would not think about right now, that is, surprise them with it...then they can be reasonably certain that you are in fact not the doppelganger we know is around.
In other words, HELP us suspend that disbelief.
Don't come in here and force us to pretend things did not happen in-game because we have "player knowledge".
Because if you try and force me to metagame and ignore what we know and don't in-character, then we have a mexican standoff of "unwilling to deal with that". I am happy to use discussion to work out a solution that makes sense in-game. But not to flat out base in-game behaiviour and decisions on out-of-game knowledge.
It's not a tantrum. It's finding it stupid behavior to threaten someone you know is a new player.
I would have been happy to prove myself after the party isn't in the middle of pitched combat. Plus, helping you with my spells to show my good intentions should have been a good opener. But apparently people are more interested in pointing weapons at me than the actual monsters you are currently in combat with. Which is frankly insane. I haven't even actually done anything yet, and I'm being threatened by people I haven't even talked to in years. Why would I respond in any way to that other than self-defense?
Perhaps your style of roleplay doesn't mesh with mine. You see, I don't care what your characters know. You as players know exactly who she is. There's a point where refusing the metagame becomes a detriment to other people. I've already had one bad experience this month with being attacked by an older player when I tried to join an in-progress game. I'm not dealing with a second. If it's a problem that I want to be able to enjoy a game without having to physically defend myself from other players, I'll go submit to the other Runelords game that just opened up and let you find a different player.
EDIT: Also, I just realized that unless you've been shouting to everyone who will listen that there's a doppleganger in town, Shara has no clue that you ran into one anyway. So if you insist on playing the 'no metagaming ever' excuse, then Shara thinks you're all violently insane and threatening her for no good reason.
Who said anything about attacking?
You will find that while a crossbow was aimed for you, no trigger was pulled, no spells cast, no attack made.
Obviously we as players know who Shara is going to be, a new player, and hence find a way to work things out without hostilities. That said, as Rojava pointed out, your timing is extraordinarily bad, coming up from the back in the middle of a pitched battle.(whereas that doppel was pursued to an area in our back we could not proceed into).
There's also the overtone of everybody being fostered of sorts at the Cathedral. So if you had returned previously, you would have been sent off together with us. Whats worse: We specifically informed the militia guards above that a doppelganger is active, and they should have overlapping fields of vision and not trust someone who is alone.
In other words, GM set us up to be paranoid about it.
Then you show up, suddenly returned to Sandpoint, in the dungeons below a crime scene, in the middle of a pitched battle.
Honestly, I had EITHER expected that you were to wait until after the fight, so we had a more relaxed environment for initial talks. Or that GM has you come down accompanied by someone, e.g. Talene, so that you are not alone and with someone we trust.
The fact you did show up alone suggested that you actually were looking to create an cliche yet, for this game, highly fitting situation of paranoia to have a RP-heavy introduction.
Consider this: The doppel did cast Color Spray before. Getting into a convenient position behind us so we are sandwiched between it and the ones attacking from the front would be a prime tactical move. Color spraying us from the back, even better.
It would be stupid of us to not be cautious in such a situation. To at least try and get you to stand down and talk, rather than rush into our midst and hope you are on our side.
As players? Great, yeah. As characters? Utterly stupid considering what happened in the past 48 hours.
We are only threatening you because we perceive you as a threat. The simple way to handle that is not BEING a threat. Stand down, explain yourself. If you feel that your character would not do that, or feel pushed into playing a way you feel is not natural behaviour, then do consider what you are asking of us...and work with us to resolve it in some other way.
EDIT to answer your EDIT: It is known. The guards blocking the path upstairs know. They are in pairs. They were probably paranoid too. I would be highly surprised if you DON'T KNOW that there's a doppelganger lose. I AM surprised that they allowed you to pass, alone.
As such, maybe the most simple solution would be for GM to retcon your appearance and have Talene or someone else from the Cathedral "deliver" you.
Who said anything about attacking?
You will find that while a crossbow was aimed for you, no trigger was pulled, no spells cast, no attack made.
If you're drawing a weapon and ordering another PC to do what you want or be attacked, that is an attack on them. Just because dice haven't been rolled yet doesn't make it not an attack.
Obviously we as players know who Shara is going to be, a new player, and hence find a way to work things out. That said, as Rojava pointed out, your timing is extraordinarily bad, coming up from the back in the middle of a pitched battle.(whereas that doppel was pursued to an area in our back we could not proceed into).
There's also the overtone of everybody being fostered of sorts at the Cathedral. So if you had returned previously, you would have been sent off together with us. Whats worse: We specifically informed the militia guards above that a doppelganger is active, and they should have overlapping fields of vision and not trust someone who is alone.
In other words, GM set us up to be paranoid about it.
Then you show up, suddenly returned to Sandpoint, in the dungeons below a crime scene, in the middle of a pitched battle.Honestly, I had EITHER expected that you were to wait until after the fight, so we had a more relaxed environment for initial talks. Or that GM has you come down accompanied by someone, e.g. Talene, so that you are not alone and with someone we trust.
The fact you did show up alone suggested that you actually were looking to create an cliche yet, for this game, highly fitting situation of paranoia to have a RP-heavy introduction.
Fine and dandy. That doesn't change the fact that I am being threatened with a deadly weapon for walking into a room. No matter how much time you spend justifying your paranoia, it does not make threatening to attack another PC okay.
We are only threatening you because we perceive you as a threat. The simple way to handle that is not BEING a threat. Stand down, explain yourself. If you feel that your character would not do that, or feel pushed into playing a way you feel is not natural behaviour, then do consider what you are asking of us...and work with us to resolve it in some other way.
And I wasn't until someone shoved a weapon in my character's face and demanded that I do something that I'm physically incapable of doing because I'm not in a disguise. This was provoked by the dwarf threatening me when he had no reason to other than pure paranoia.
EDIT to answer your EDIT: It is known. The guards blocking the path upstairs know. They are in pairs. They were probably paranoid too. I would be highly surprised if you DON'T KNOW that there's a doppelganger lose. I AM surprised that they allowed you to pass, alone.
As such, maybe the most simple solution would be for GM to retcon your appearance and have Talene or someone else from the Cathedral "deliver" you.
Unless DMD forgot to tell me something, Shara didn't encounter any guards entering the catacombs at all. I don't even know if I came in through the same entrance you did. Not only that, she's been sequestered in her house going over notes she and Brodert have been sharing about their work on Thessalonian monuments and hasn't been anywhere near the church until she felt the strange magical energy in town.
Look, everybody put it back in your pants. It is a bad situation. I'm not sure of the GM's motive for bringing Shara into the game in such a manner at such a time. He spoke of waiting until we finished this arc before adding in another character and I agreed to THAT.
But bringing you in while we are dungeon-crawling...AND with a murderous doppelganger around...that must be something the GM wanted to do? I don't know why. A role-playing challenge? Whatever...
I was just trying to go with it, but if everybody's going to circle the wagons and cut off scalps over this, that just ruins any fun we were having.
NO FUN = NO GAME. (What's the point?)
Shara: I get it your offended by Dravsen's crossbow. Deal with it. We have legitimate reasons to be SCARED of you actually. If it wasn't for the damn DEVIL (Lemure) just inside the other door in the room (now dead I think) Karmid might be a little more suspicious too. But he's distracted and in no mood to 'figure things out' when he's trying to smash stuff.
BTW-No offense-here: Why would you walk into our room (after walking through multiple blood-filled rooms already) while we were in the middle of a fight with unknown enemies and NOT think you might get challenged? Did you read any of the current posts of what is going on? Or just jump in without looking really?
Either way...Think on this: Our little group has been going on for almost a year now, quite well,and you are only just now entering in to our dynamic.
If you have a grievance, please feel free to file it with the GM. Otherwise...Chill guys. Its just a game.
We've been drawing a weapon and ordering another PC because in character, there was no other course of action that made sense. PC or no PC.
That is, we HAD to stop you from approaching further. Since we are in a battle situation, it's a lot more likely to simply aim that weapon the other direction, rather than try and ask friendly.
I am sorry if that came across the wrong way, but considering rounds are measured in seconds, I consider Drasven aiming the crossbow a sensible means of getting you to stop.
The fact you are unable to act on the order because you are not in a disguise may have been worth pointing out. In fact, I consider that it was a cue provided to tip you off in-character that we don't have beef with Shara, or you, but assume you to be someone else. That is, the player did not expect you to comply, but attempted to provide information for you in-game. Same reason Flutter actually MENTIONED the doppelganger. To provide a cue for you in-character.
If that makes you feel better, I had a weapon trained on me as well when I stood next to the Doppel looking like me at that time. It was rather easy to resolve thanks to my Familiar being able to pinpoint the real me, but you're not the first one to have that happen to you.
In that situation, it made sense, same as here. Doesn't mean I was going to get shot dead, doesn't mean anybody would do that to you. I am sorry for your bad experience with some other player actually going through with an attack, but this is a no PvP game. That does not mean we exist in a vacuum and can only ever interact by means of friendly chat. If the situation demands some tension, or threats, then so be it. You did return the favor, so it seemed you were fine with that.
That paranoida was fed by multiple run-ins with the doppelganger, the last a few minutes ago, where we had to leave it behind us since we can't turn gaseous.
You could claim it would be stupid for it to come back right again since nobody would fall for that trick. But if we do let our guard down during a battle when there is a real in-game chance it comes back in whatever disguise it chooses we'd be stupid.
I mean, we run into it between 2-4 times now, in different guises. Unreasonably and without any proof assuming that someone else suddenly showing up from the past is that person for real seems far-fetched.
And yes, DMD must have forgotten. We did inform the Militia and the Cathedral, this place is below a cruelsome crime scene, and us god-touched were sent off together(with the Cathedrals blessing, and swapping a Cleric GMPC for a Paladin GMPC, after a night of preparation and sleeping in our god-touched quarters in the cathedral, being seen off by the head priest).
I suppose if you've been in town, but not visited the cathedral, some rules regarding that had been relaxed for your creation as well. At the least, you should probably have reported to the Father before going off on your own.
As such, I believe we are working on a different basis of assumption there, too. It may be best to see if DMD can sort this out.
Look, everybody put it back in your pants. It is a bad situation. I'm not sure of the GM's motive for bringing Shara into the game in such a manner at such a time. He spoke of waiting until we finished this arc before adding in another character and I agreed to THAT.
But bringing you in while we are dungeon-crawling...AND with a murderous doppelganger around...that must be something the GM wanted to do? I don't know why. A role-playing challenge? Whatever...
The reason that Shara came in now is because her back story is directly tied to the Runewell and I asked if it was possible to be there when the party interacted with it. The GM said it was fine and that things would work out. Clearly he was wrong.
NO FUN = NO GAME. (What's the point?)
You know what's not fun? Having the first thing that happens to you in a game be the other players threatening to kill you.
Shara: I get it your offended by Dravsen's crossbow. Deal with it. We have legitimate reasons to be SCARED of you actually. If it wasn't for the damn DEVIL (Lemure) just inside the other door in the room (now dead I think) Karmid might be a little more suspicious too. But he's distracted and in no mood to 'figure things out' when he's trying to smash stuff.
BTW-No offense-here: Why would you walk into our room (after walking through multiple blood-filled rooms already) while we were in the middle of a fight with unknown enemies and NOT think you might get challenged? Did you read any of the current posts of what is going on? Or just jump in without looking really?
Yes, I am offended. And I've said this twice already. I could not care less what your characters think in character. If you are not able to separate your reaction from your character enough to know that it is not acceptable to threaten another PC, then I don't want to be in a game with you.
It's not about being challenged, it's about being introduced to the group with a weapon pointed at my face.
The fact you are unable to act on the order because you are not in a disguise may have been worth pointing out. In fact, I consider that it was a cue provided to tip you off in-character that we don't have beef with Shara, or you, but assume you to be someone else. That is, the player did not expect you to comply, but attempted to provide information for you in-game. Same reason Flutter actually MENTIONED the doppelganger. To provide a cue for you in-character.
After being threatened with a crossbow. I don't see how you're not understanding this. It's not the paranoia that's unacceptable, it's the blatant threatening of someone you know is a PC.
As such, I believe we are working on a different basis of assumption there, too. It may be best to see if DMD can sort this out.
Clearly. It seems like you have very specific assumptions of how my character should act and how this situation should go, and I fundamentally disagree that this situation should have happened at all.
Wow. Maybe this really isn't the game for you. You've heard the reasons, and I really don't think the group is going to rebuild it's play style around your demands.
This is the first time I've ever heard it's unacceptable to so much as speak harshly to another pc. It's not a PvP game whatsoever, but words? Really?
No, it's simple really.
You seemed to insist on coming in right in the middle of a combat with no prior notice.
And accuse us of having very specific assumptions of how your character should act.
When you are doing exactly the same thing. You do not care about our IC reasons, and want us to act a very specific way that makes no sense to us.
(Act completely different towards a character on the basis that it's a PC, when we as players do understand anyway that no harmful action would take place. There was no actual chance for harm to your character, this is a no pvp-game. Only a threat, which made sense in the situation. Not acting like that on the mere basis that its a PC rather than a NPC is trying to force us to metagame in-character.)
I assumed you had not read up on gameplay and did not know what took place previously. It's been a ton of posts and I wouldn't blame you for not knowing relevant information.
But actually, you state quite clearly that you simply don't care about the reasons, only the result.
You are entering the game and expect to be welcomed with open arms. Surely it was not something along the lines of long time no see, oh, did you know there's a doppelganger about? Oh wait, we can talk later, lets finish the fight we are currently engaged in, watch my back, trusted friend.
So help me understand. Please. How exactly did you imagine this situation to play out.
In a way in which your identity is not questioned(despite a known doppelganger around)/you are not threatened(despite coming up from behind during a battle in an area full of enemies), and most importantly, in which you are not forcing us to act a certain way that is not reasonable in our situation simply to make you feel more comfortable?
Understand that while this may sound like a rant, it is not. I take the time to write and reply because I WANT to understand, WANT to find a solution.
Would simply threatening you without the crossbow-pointing have been better?
Insisting you stop right there?
Formulating it in a different way?(Readying a theoretical action vs. a hostile action)
I truly want to understand what you thought was going to happen, or how you imagined this would play out in a way that makes sense considering the circumstances. Just a short explanation would suffice.
Even waiting until after the battle was over would have been a better option and allowed you to arrive before we interact with some sort of runewell, whatever that is.
I repeat myself though: DMD should probably have set you up with someone from the Cathedral coming down together with you and help explain your sudden presence.
Clearly this isn't a game I want anything to do with. There are player behaviors that are never acceptable, no matter what the in-character reason is and threatening to attack another PC is one of them. If you disagree, then I certainly don't want to play in a game with you.
Goodbye.
Aye. And I find forcing one's own views and values on other players inacceptable.
Especially as new player coming into a group that works.
Different thing, same result.
Goodbye, kamen.
DMD runs a lot of games, he may well have one that fits you better.
Sounds like my 3 year old.
Debating a child always ends up with somebody crying 'Its not my fault!' If Shara can't understand she was at least SOME part of this problem, then good riddance IMHO.
Hmmm. That went well...
I removed Shara from the game, that went downhill fast!
I figured the appearance of a new PC would cause some friction with the Doppel running around but did not anticipate it going quite that poorly.
That said, I'll update the combat at some point tonight.
Hooowee, that was like nothing I've ever seen before.
I'm sorry you did all that recruiting work for nothing DMD. But I've never seen anyone so determined to walk away from the word "go".
I guess she lost me at "Perhaps your style of roleplay doesn't mesh with mine. You see, I don't care what your characters know."
She wasn't objecting, she was awarding herself veto powers before she was even through the front door.
Well it was not much recruiting work really that's why I lifted the player having known them from other games.
At the end of the day play styles did not mesh what else can be said?
I'll Recruit another and bring them in AFTER this battle this time. The reason I brought in the character BEFORE the battle was related to the Background tie in to the next room. Sort of a knee jerk I'd better bring you in now without considering the I/C Doppel angle. Of course, I have been hung up the last few weeks with RL crap so that angle was not on the forefront of my mind.
Anyway, updates in a minute - the skunk is the representation of Shara's character for this battle.
BTW, I've sen WORSE interactions on these boards, this was much more pleasant than the PvP debacle I had last year...
My apologies, DMD.
I believed it would be possible to find a solution, to find some common ground, to work out a agreeable solution in discussion, then enact it in-game.
Which is why I kept posting, and failed in that task, it seems.
But I still stand by what was said.
It is not ONLY the doppel. It's also that Tsuto suddenly came back, and murdered his father, Nualia suddenly came back stealing her fathers bones, and Shara, who left 5 years ago(coincidentally the same time frame since the fire)) suddenly reappears in their dungeon.
Half of the party does NOT know her since they never met her(or if she came on visits, probably had as much interaction with her as with Tsuto). The other half would be wise to be on edge regarding her intentions even if there was no doppelganger.
Considering she seems to move freely in this dungeon, she could well be on Tsutos and Nualias side, having returned with them. The fact she wields powerful magic only makes caution more important.
The Doppelganger only serves to make paranoia a must.
So I stand by my opinion that it was good and normal to challenge her. Discussion is here to sort out problems, and we repeatedly assured her that it's no PVP and nothing would happen to her.
If that player throws up that much drama over their character being treated in a semi-realistic way, honestly, I think we may have dodged a bullet there.
I only know this kind of behaviour in real life from spotlight diva's who must be the center of attention and disregard other characters completely. The fact she claimed to be a descendent of an actual Runelord only reinforces the feeling the player wanted to turn this into Shara's personal story.
As such, again, I am sorry for having tried and failed to find a diplomatic solution.
But considering Shara's unwillingness to compromise or accept other opinions, I admit that in retrospect I am kind of glad it went like this. No good would have come of that. I believe both sides are better of this way.
Are we using Background skills? I just can't remember ;-)
Yes we are.
Or I messed up :)
Yes we are using background skills, and I'm also fine (since I didn't put in any opinion ahead of the "only use player knowledge" debacle) with skill unlocks.
I was going to say something, but every time I got a chance to post, everything in my head was on the thread from Lia/Karmid already.
Now then, let us deal with the lemure!
Yes we are using background skills, and I'm also fine (since I didn't put in any opinion ahead of the "only use player knowledge" debacle) with skill unlocks.
I was going to say something, but every time I got a chance to post, everything in my head was on the thread from Lia/Karmid already.
Now then, let us deal with the lemure!
Oh the Lemure is toast, Gaven already Smited him!
The Sinspawn was wasted by Windsight and Shara.
My NPCs are uh making you guys look bad... :-)
No to worry, soon enough they'll all be gone and it'll just be the group!
Oh right, I did read that. Let's find out why there was a lemure in the basement then. :D
Oh right, I did read that. Let's find out why there was a lemure in the basement then. :D
Where do you keep your Lemure's?
In a cedar chest in the attic, like a civilized person! Mold and moths are horrible for them, don't you know.
Wrapped in plastic. Those things drip like crazy.
In my special place!
Hehehehe!
Oh God!
I was wondering why there were 30 new posts and I find it's because of my rather thoughtless actions!!
I apologise to all including the intended player who has already left.
I simply thought that that the Doppel would jump out after Shara's introduction and we'll have another 'figure out which one' scenario again and besides Drasven eh hem has no spells left actually....... All he's got is his innnate abilites and crossbow...
I would put forward that Drasven is rather reliant on the other God touched to indicate who they would know because.....well He doesn't know anybody at all! lol. As far as my old dwarf would go, any one of you could be the Doppel and he couldn't tell. Also he's lightly outnumbered. (he knows he's heavily outnumbered but let's give him some pride.)
@Drasven: No need to apologise. At least in my eyes. You did what made sense in the situation, and I would have done the same thing.
It was not thoughtless, it was logical. No blame lies with you, especially since you were not aware of this players "special sensitivities".
Either way, Shara had a problem with that, but instead of trying to work out a solution with us, got stuck in a loop. As said, even if some of us recognized her, we have no way of knowing which side she is on...and that's assuming she's not the doppelganger to begin with. *shrug* I'd say "you have my axe" as a means of backing you up, that being dwarfy and all, but I'm afraid I have no axes.