All's Well that Ends in a Well

Game Master Choon

Hugs Vuzi super tight

YAY!!!

OH my. Has it only been three days? Did I start to panic prematurely? (Wouldn't be the first time...)

OH my. Has it only been three days? Did I start to panic prematurely? (Wouldn't be the first time...)

It felt longer for us because as a collective group we completely missed a day and a half after Dalkk. Plus we're awesome and demand more of your time/patience/energy :P

Vuzi: I checked your other aliases for activity. Damn your active. I'm guessing between them all you are deep into triple digit number of posts to catch up on.

If I ever go down for multiple days I definitely will be.

Out of curiousity Choon, as its been brought up now, how did group 2 bridge the gap from 5 players to 4. We lost Ignatzia right away so it didn't seem as impactful, but I am legit concerned about the body count. Even with Vance helping its not entirely the same. What, if anything, should we be concerned with or prepared for?

Holy crap 32.5 games (pathfinder lodge only kinda counts)! That's almost thrice mine!

Out of curiousity Choon, as its been brought up now, how did group 2 bridge the gap from 5 players to 4. We lost Ignatzia right away so it didn't seem as impactful, but I am legit concerned about the body count. Even with Vance helping its not entirely the same. What, if anything, should we be concerned with or prepared for?

The other group bridged it easily because they went to the part of the dungeon designed for lvl 1 or so characters. They've cleared a lot of space in the time you've been out. Their trapfinder, Zadira, has almost died about three time so far, so there's that.

I am trying to cut down on them. I looked up one day and had way too many. I'm not cutting my long term games like this one. I'm having a blast trying to keep everyone alive, and figuring out how to save Vance.

I'm not taking any new games for PFS or any other games. Though I really want to get into a Strange Aeon's game one of these days. Once several of the PFS games end which will be within the next six weeks or so it will be better.

My husband just recently got into playing ESO with me, and my posting time in the evenings has been cut way down.

Wheeew, thanks Gozreth you're okay.
Didn't wanted to say that before, but it would be pretty weird with only the silent Cain, Lil Miss Nikki and THAT other person.
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And wow, that's a hell of a lot games.
I GM one, play this one and two others. One is now likely dead and the other severely slowed down due to the GM changed job and cannot update big during workdays anymore ...

It's always fun to play with family. :)

My wife has no interest, unfortunately.

Hmmm, well I just ended a four hour session with my wife and friends in a WoW dungeon (private server for a game that was actually dangerous), so ...

Took him years to understand the pull. He now gets why suddenly four hours fly by so fast. I've played LOTRO for about five years, and The Secret World off and on for three. NOW he gets into ESO. I've been trying for years.

If there was a Fallout MMO, we'd be doing that in a heartbeat. We both love that game.

I try to avoid MMO's now. I fell pretty deep into Eve Online and it was bad. So now I tend toward shooters to play with friends on my xbox and strategy on PC. Some MOBAs as well like LoL.
All that happens less than it did though. Kids, man.

So... I think I'm dropping Kineticist based on perceived party needs. My instinct says that a wizard gestalt will keep me blasting all day, if I need to. I do have to rule out some cheese though before I proceed.

If I took cleric as my gestalt, I'd currently meet all the requirements Mystic Theurge. Can I then start taking that as my primary level to gain +1 spell advancement in both classes and pick a third one to start Gestalting?

Forgive the delay on other side. Normally I work alone and can prioritize my time to post. Today is not a normal day.

Remember that for a wizard your caster level will be lacking
Kinetist is good
Mistic theurge could also be good if you want that, but then your third gestalt should be either monk or rogue

Kineticist would be better as a primary. At half lvl it gives me a 2d6 single element. Burn ticks off character level, and penalizes my low HP Witch levels.

Wizard would scale roughly the same as Kineticist damage (plenty of 1d6 +1d6/2 level spells). With the Admixture Arcane School I can use all the elements, not just cold. I do lose out on Water Shroud (kineticist mage armor) but with an extra 2 1st and 2nd level spells it should balance fine? I could even use a Witch lvl 1 spell slot as its not on that list, and put whatever utility (not save dependent) lvl 1 spell on the wizard.

My stats aren't as MAD worthy as Dalkk was in anyway. If I did go Theurge Route I'd go Ecclesitheurge Cleric and have to live as a glass cannon until I could monk for a level. My stats after the lvl 4 increase are (before racial) 18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8, so I need to keep my selections pretty much on the same ability.

This is of course assuming it all meets Cain's approval

I think I ruled that you could qualify for theurge using both sides of the gestalt, but I can't remember.

Ruling subject to change?

It looks like you did, but I'd like to clarify and make sure. You were replying to a lot of posts at the time.

So if I did Witch 6/Cleric 3 Gestalt, this fulfills the spell requirement. If I meet the other requirements, I can go Witch 6/Cleric 3G/Mystic Theurge 1. The level after Witch 6/Cleric 3G/Mystic Theurge 2/Monk 1?

At which point, although I wouldn't of gained the class features, as far as my spell book is concerned I'm Witch 8/Cleric 5?

Mhh, wouldn't you loose hex progression that way?
MT only counts as taking a level in the base class for the sake of new spells, not other (possibly magic related) class features.
Your hexes will stop scaling (maybe, since they scale off your caster level + int) and you will not gain more plus the big ones will be out of reach too.
It doesn't seem like witch is the best way to go into MT for me.
If your hex DC keep scaling though, it might be worth it.
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But then again, I'm not much into casters in the first place, so what do I know, eh ^^
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@Vuzi: Subtle, really subtle ;-)

Yeah, I would lose a little Hex Progression. Hex Progression is +1 per 2 Witch Levels (+INT Mod and +10, but as that is the same regardless I'm not going to include that for comparison). If I took 4 levels of MT, then I would be -2 from what I should be if I stayed Witch.

But compare what that does to Cleric. If I don't MT and went Witch/Cleric (Which I wont unless going MT) then 4 levels from now I'm casting 3rd level spells. If I take MT and gain +4 effective spellcaster levels instead of the +2 from Gestalt, then I'd be casting 4th level spells. So yeah, losing out on -2 Hexes is far from inconsequential, but -2 in exchange for advancing an entire spell level? It's not a cheap price, but it's not a small gain either.

If I'm going into MT in this Gestalt game, my arcane side almost has to be Witch or Wizard. Witch and Wizard gain access to spell levels ahead of all other arcane classes. (Compare when Sorcers vs Wizards can begin casting 4th lvl spells for example, or even 2nd). As the Witch already has some divine spells... strictly speaking I'd be better off selecting Wizard for this. I mean really, that's the optimal strat. I wanna play a witch though so there's that lol. Hexes seem fun to spam explore.

For the Divine side Cleric and Druid has that same faster spell progression. I'm only choosing Cleric because if I choose Druid then I'm going to select Herbalism as my nature Bond and turn into a potion making factory. That's a little close to what Dalkk did, and it'd feel really weird, and in some ways disrespectful, of his retirement if I stick too close to the same.

GM Choon

In the same post there was a question about reversing the FAQ ruling. You said you would have to look into it and were unaware of it.

Mystic Theurge w/FAQ

The short version is that when the Mystic Theurge grants +1 spell level to a class that uses a spell book type feature (Wizard and Witch) that the do *not* gain the 2 free spells per level, as that is a class feature. They can still cast at a higher level, but they have to earn *all* their spells via scrolls found or purchased. This would be disabling but managable in a metropolis, but if CL 10th is the high end of what I can find locally then buying scrolls via Pye or Dark will be very costly, more so as I level up.

I'd like a ruling on the above confirmation about how Mystic Theurge works with Gestalt as well as whether or not you'll allow the 2 free spells per level, which is counter to the FAQ ruling.

I'm gong to let you qualify using both sides of the Gestalt, but keep the FAQ. You'll be running into some magic soon so it shouldn't be that bad.

is this your familiar

@Simon: Why waste time. If she can't deal with Vance and the Twins then no point in continuing. ;)

Now the Fop he can just deal or not. Vuzi doesn't care.

Oh yeah Cain you betcha that there is Bartok alright.

GM Choon

Totally get your call regarding Mystic Theurge. With that ruling though I think I'll be going with Wizard as my Gestalt then.

Which brings me to familiars. Normally familiar levels stack. In this Gestalt form do they stack? Giving me an equivlant level 9 familiar? I assume it would still use my lvl 3 wizard or lvl 6 witch for any spell calculation, but for anything unique to the familiar (natural armor bonus, Int score, which would stack normally anyway) do I calculate as if lvl 9?

No. Things like sneak attack and familiar progression do not stack across the gestalt normally. Your theurge is an exception. If the sources are on the same side of the gestalt then they would, but a witch//wizard wouldn't stack. A witch 5/wizard1//monk 3 would stack as the sources are on the same "side".

So then would I gain 2 Familiars or just be disqualified from taking one. Either is fine, just trying to figure out where to carry the 2

I honestly can't remember right now. Too tired. Standby. :)

Maybe you can give him two familiar archetypes instead as a compromise!

... Or gain Improved Familiar for free? Like when you get Evasion from 2 sources it usually bounces to Improved Evasion. If you grant that I'm going to take Earth Elemental so I can hide him in the ground at all times. The scariest part for me of any arcane caster is spell loss. Witches can't make backup familiars.

Edit- I suppose technically speaking it'd grant tremor sense cheese as well.

I can rock an Arcane Bond, don't mean to be any trouble, just figuring out the crunch

@Choon: Sooo, that means that we can get just about anything we can buy with the random loot, including that burning sword (sell value 36k) but not the evil sword.
That right?
- Simon Gleamy-Eye

For the next trip, yes. Not the current one.

Ah, gotcha.
Will do it IC tomorrow.

You do get any items you ordered with the other treasure you had with the evil sword though.

Any update on a familiar decision?

You would gain one familiar, but your class levels would stack when determining it's abilities as long as you always took levels in classes that granted familiars. Your familiar also progresses as if you were a single-classes witch as long as your levels stack. For example, a Witch 6/wizard 3 would have one familiar that is technically Witch 9 and would have the abilities of a familiar of a Witch 9.

More greedy cat calculations:
- Carry-Over: 3558g (shared with Dalkk, should be enough for a good start, no?)
- Burny-Sword-Sell: 36.000/5 (no Dalkk share for this one) = 7.200 (incl. party-share)
- Total: 10.758g per maw (only Dwarf-Troll-Trip)

RE Shopping:

The only things that I saw on Vuzi's list were a

Wand of Hide from Undead
Headband of Alluring Charisma Mag's was making that one.

I paid for part of the scroll for the headband, and part of the crafting for the group boots.

We were also getting a folding boat. We didn't plan on two trolls when we ordered it.

what is our full total?
Cain hasn't bought anything yet

More greedy cat calculations:

- Carry-Over: 3558g (shared with Dalkk, should be enough for a good start, no?)
- Burny-Sword-Sell: 36.000/5 (no Dalkk share for this one) = 7.200 (incl. party-share)
- Total: 10.758g per maw (only Dwarf-Troll-Trip)

Where are you getting the Carry-Over from? Not saying it's wrong, just don't recognize the number.

First Dip into the Dungeon of Graves
1st Run Loot List
Math summary for above This included the sale of the Axe and Dwarven Armor, but not the 350 bonus. This does *not* include the sword. This put total haul at 12,980.75, with a 6 way split (5 PCs plus Party) for a total value of 2,163.45 Gold.
Boots of Earth Purchase Group Fund was wiped out and everyone chipped in 105 Gold. This put everyone at Net Individual Gold Gained: 2058.5 / Party Fund: 0. This of course does not count leftover starting gold and individual purchases along the way.
Trolls!
Troll Loot 2 posts above this is the breakdown for 15000. Simon I’m assuming added the Potions to his Inventory. Loot tally here is 15,850, with a 5 way split (Dalkk surrendered his shares, I’m still counting Maglin though, 4 PCs plus Party) Net Individual Gold Gained: 3170 / Party Fund: 3170
+350 Armor Adjustment Retroactive math regarding the armor. Using 5 way split, although debatably it should be 6. Still… Math is easier this way. Net Individual Gold Gained: 70 / Party Fund: 70
Unliquidated Loot
+6 Evil Sword (being sold by Pye)
+6 Troll Sword (have yet to make an attempt to sell)
+1 Small Troll Sword GM Choon If Zelkor’s Ferry can produce a +1 Weapon as indicated above, can I safely assume that they can buy one for book cost?
Totals – Does **NOT** include any individual purchases or remaining starting gold

5,298.5 Net Individual Gain / 3,240 Party Fund

I think my numbers were a merge of your first and second number.
It is all the troll loot + the until-then-unsold stuff from the first run (the axe, adjusted armor).
So I guess we're both more or less on target ... But lets go with yours, since it is a global break down rather than a relative one (like mine).

Btw, what's that Small Troll Sword you listed?

In addition, I computed in the flaming sword sell, since we can only order stuff in between runs, so the sold of the sword should be used to buy stuff in the same ... 'turn', if you know what I mean?

Yeah, we effectivly double sold the axe, but that was a bit of a cluster because I didn't know if we did or didn't at the time and there was a retcon permitted later.

In your troll loot you listed a +6 Flaming sword and a +1 weapon. Whatever that +1 weapon is = Small Troll Sword

Ahhh, right it was the +1 large morning-star (aka painstick of the Priestess) that was errata-ed by Choon after I asked here
I incorporated that one in my calculations as well, since I figured that we should be able to sell that one on pretty short-notice.

Anything up to a +1 weapon can be sold here without issue.

Also, well done on that math!

5,298.5 Net Individual Gain / 3,240 Party Fund

Due to the ruling of Choon according to sellable +1 Sword things:

GRAND TOTAL:
Personal: 4700g 1s
Party: 3641g 1s

Nikki Tempest wrote:

5,298.5 Net Individual Gain / 3,240 Party Fund

Due to the ruling of Choon according to sellable +1 Sword things:

- Large +1 Morning star: 2008g 1154g / 5 = 401g 6s 230g 8s

GRAND TOTAL:
Personal: 4700g 1s 5529g 1s
Party: 3641g 1s 3470g 8s

Adjustment made for selling the weapon at Half Price, Increased the value by 300 (150 sold) for Masterwork price, a pre req for the +1

Hah, lol I really messed that one up o.O
Thanks for that Nikki, there was a real brain fart zipping around at the time, wow...

Also, well done on that math!

Thank you thank you, but on that note about math...

I'm putting together shopping lists for craft. We did this once already with Maglin and Dalkk and funds were spent by pretty much everyone to add the spells to Maglin's spell list. Technically speaking, Maglin hadn't put this to use yet I don't believe. Can you give me a ruling on if its cool to say..

A) Maglin taught Nikki these spells
B) The scrolls are intact and Maglin hands them to Nikki
C) Too bad, and if the party wants them again they will need to purchase them again

These are the scrolls specifically paid for by other people (off the top of my head the Owls Wisdom, Eagles Splendor). Anything Dalkk and Maglin paid for is their loss, but I feel a little s%&#ty asking the players to repurchase ones they already bought but haven't seen used yet. Then again, this is Rappan Athuk

We can act as if Maglin is here until you guys descend back into the depths. So you can craft as if Maglin were there to provide the necessary spells.

Re: Shopping
Are you (or IC-wise: is Pye) cool with 50-50 payment?
So paying 50% ahead and 50% on delivery.
You set the order, give him 50% of the order, he will set sails and get it and you pay 50% more once the hand-over is happening?
That way we would have a more or less fluid payment thing going in between dungeon runs, no?