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Click here for unlimited eldritch power!
My first guide, to the Elder Mythos cultist archetype from Horror Adventures. Any feedback is appreciated.
It might be worth mentioning the Dreamed Secrets feat. Sure, your will save is worse than the average cleric without a lot of work, but you do worship the right deity at least.
Based on my reading, the Great Old One you worship doesn't need to offer a domain for you to pick it. The text seems to imply that they do need to offer subdomains, though. Not sure what the RAI is, but I thought I'd mention it. This might even be worth a FAQ request.
I suspect it will never be particularly optimal, but a Cleric (Elder Mythos Cultist) / Sorcerer (Aberrant, Impossible, or Ghoul Bloodline) / Mystic Theurge would be thematic as hell.
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It's time I said something - nothing personal to THIS particular guide/thread, you understand, this is just something that's been on my mind for years:
While I acknowledge that the writers of the guides to the Baldur's Gate games and even 3.5's Complete Mage did this sort of thing, I really don't like the idea of these "Guides" people keep writing and posting here. They're just armchair editorials posing as authoritative sources, telling people (people new to the game, in particular) how to think about classes/feats/spells/etc and subtly forcing them into a collective mold, instead of giving them freedom to exercise, experiment and to develop their own judgments without any biasing from others. I think it hurts the game and those who play it, overall, effectively leeching the community of creativity and new and different ideas.
It's time I said something - nothing personal to THIS particular guide/thread, you understand, this is just something that's been on my mind for years:
While I acknowledge that the writers of the guides to the Baldur's Gate games and even 3.5's Complete Mage did this sort of thing, I really don't like the idea of these "Guides" people keep writing and posting here. They're just armchair editorials posing as authoritative sources, telling people (people new to the game, in particular) how to think about classes/feats/spells/etc and subtly forcing them into a collective mold, instead of giving them freedom to exercise, experiment and to develop their own judgments without any biasing from others. I think it hurts the game and those who play it, overall, effectively leeching the community of creativity and new and different ideas.
Just because ideas are new or different doesn't make them useful.
Is there a great history of people posting feedback to guides with other options and being treated poorly? Most of the time ive witnessed guide writers are pretty open to incorporating as many neat builds and power/feat combos into a guide as possible.
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It's time I said something - nothing personal to THIS particular guide/thread, you understand, this is just something that's been on my mind for years:
While I acknowledge that the writers of the guides to the Baldur's Gate games and even 3.5's Complete Mage did this sort of thing, I really don't like the idea of these "Guides" people keep writing and posting here. They're just armchair editorials posing as authoritative sources, telling people (people new to the game, in particular) how to think about classes/feats/spells/etc and subtly forcing them into a collective mold, instead of giving them freedom to exercise, experiment and to develop their own judgments without any biasing from others. I think it hurts the game and those who play it, overall, effectively leeching the community of creativity and new and different ideas.
Creativity for creativity's sake gets you Star Fox Zero. Guides are always a good resource, since even if the guide writer missed an option or perhaps did not rate something correctly, there are always others who can point out missed options and give feedback on ratings. The simple truth is that in Pathfinder the overwhelming majority of options are trap options. Having guides that can help players avoid trap options helps to promote meaningful choices. You are entitled to your opinion of course, but is Star Fox Zero really what you want?
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Just because ideas are new or different doesn't make them useful.
How are you ever going to know if you don't give people space to develop and experiment with them? New and different ideas are inherently valuable, independently of how they might later be implied. The conservative mentality is poison to RPGs, and your apparent sneeriness toward, of all things, creativity and originality, only serves to support my thesis.
Never thought I'd see someone try to seriously argue that offering advice to people who ask for it is actually somehow malicious behavior.
Excuse me??? I never said a word about "malice" - on the contrary, I'm saying the intent is benevolent (meaning well), but the resulting effect is maleficent (doing harm).
I've said enough. Carry on.
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Just because ideas are new or different doesn't make them useful.
How are you ever going to know if you don't give people space to develop and experiment with them? New and different ideas are inherently valuable, independently of how they might later be implied. The conservative mentality is poison to RPGs, and your apparent sneeriness toward, of all things, creativity and originality, only serves to support my thesis.
Never thought I'd see someone try to seriously argue that offering advice to people who ask for it is actually somehow malicious behavior.
Excuse me??? I never said a word about "malice" - on the contrary, I'm saying the intent is benevolent (meaning well), but the resulting effect is maleficent (doing harm).
I've said enough. Carry on.
Nah, you said enough first post. As for sneering, you're reading more into that than exists.
"i'm going to make a throwing weapon paladin"
Well, paladin does't really get good feat access and that throwing style requires a lot of feat investment to work so thats not a great choice, its not inherently valuable in the same way saying "what if we just forgive the portion of the national debt owed to the country" isn't a valuable idea on dealing with the national debt.
Moreover things like guides hold far more value to the community than the 8000000 billionth "talk it over with your gm" post.
This is the "just spec any way you want" post you see on every mmo for people looking for help to make an effective character.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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I like this guide.
To the guides are the bane of existence question, this isn't one. The guides that make rules assertions (that happen to be creative RAW interpretations) that create issues at the table "but this guide said it works!!! GM - Well the guide is wrong". They don't help.
Another feat you should add is: Noble Scion (Scion of war).
For a charisma caster being able to use cha for initiative is pretty amazing.
It also makes sense from a fluff perspective if you worship Hastur, considering that he's a god of decadence and has some aristocratic motifs (the rapier, power through the arts).
Also are there any ways to capitalize on the maddening gaze attack's Wisdom damage? The Eldritch Heritage feats are also worth considering since you'll certainly have the charisma requirement down. You still need skill focus though, which is a bit of a feat tax.
Also are there any ways to capitalize on the maddening gaze attack's Wisdom damage?
First thing that comes to mind is simply to have some nasty spells with Will saves. Lower the enemy's Will Save via Gaze, then hit them with a Reaching Harm.
Personally I'm a big fan of guides..... good work!
Although ironically in this case, a guide is pointless since the archetype is pretty terrible! IMO obviously designed as a thematic NPC/BBEG rather than a PC
Haven't had the chance to go through it in its entirety yet, but may I recommend a Red and Orange that stand out more from each other?
The colours are really difficult to differentiate.
I also disagree with the Human FCB being rated so low. Its effectively multiple Spell Pen feats (or a permanent Piercing Spell) against some of the game's most difficult and dangerous enemies. Just comparing it to Toughness or Cunning (+1 HP and Skill respectively), you can see the value. When you absolutely need a spell to stick on an outsider, you will regret not taking this. Additionally it gives you the benefit of having more flexible spell preparation as you no longer have to worry about SR: None.
Also +1 Dreamed Secrets.
I'll provide more substantial comments down the road.
Also if you are worshiping a Great Old One and want to summon or call evil outsiders with a conjuration, Preklikin's Book of Cults gets you a cheap lesser metamagic rod of extend. +1 resistance to will saves to before you grab a cloak.
Oh, and Ganzis are a great race to consider: +2 to Con and Cha and the Quibble ability that can make others reroll things as a curse effect!
Just realized something (again); this was probably coincidental and a bit of a reach, but due to the charisma dependency and the fact that you can use the Void domain, you can also specialize in Planar Binding spells.
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An item you should link to: Padma Blossom
A binding focused Mythos Cultist should consider going Darkfire Adept. Especially with the new prestige class feats that makes you not lose casting progression or CL.
Just realized something (again); this was probably coincidental and a bit of a reach, but due to the charisma dependency and the fact that you can use the Void domain, you can also specialize in Planar Binding spells.Wait, the Void domain gives you *all three* Planar Binding spells?
Oh hell to the yes. Suddenly this Archetype makes all kinds of sense. Right now, all the core planar binders have a problem: wizards usually have crap Cha while sorcerors are handicapped by their low spells known. And clerics, of course, can't use planar binding at all -- they're stuck with the distinctly inferior Planar Ally spell instead. But this cuts right past all those problems. AND you have access to the human or tiefling FCB, which lets you pretty much ignore SR! Sweet. Sweeeet.
Doug M.
The moderate limitation I see is that your aligned spell restrictions will prevent you from calling or controlling a big swath of outsiders. If you're CN you're kind of limited to NG/N/NE since you can't cast Protection from Chaos or summon Lawful outsiders.
Click here for unlimited eldritch power!
My first guide, to the Elder Mythos cultist archetype from Horror Adventures. Any feedback is appreciated.
Please add the new gods from the Strange Aeons AP (Nhimbaloth, for example).
An item you should link to: Padma BlossomHoly socks. I was looking for exactly that item, for the guy who's writing the Demoniac miniguide! Thanks, man.
Doug M.
I like the Azata's Whimsy more.
The moderate limitation I see is that your aligned spell restrictions will prevent you from calling or controlling a big swath of outsiders. If you're CN you're kind of limited to NG/N/NE since you can't cast Protection from Chaos or summon Lawful outsiders.Just realized something (again); this was probably coincidental and a bit of a reach, but due to the charisma dependency and the fact that you can use the Void domain, you can also specialize in Planar Binding spells.Wait, the Void domain gives you *all three* Planar Binding spells?
Oh hell to the yes. Suddenly this Archetype makes all kinds of sense. Right now, all the core planar binders have a problem: wizards usually have crap Cha while sorcerors are handicapped by their low spells known. And clerics, of course, can't use planar binding at all -- they're stuck with the distinctly inferior Planar Ally spell instead. But this cuts right past all those problems. AND you have access to the human or tiefling FCB, which lets you pretty much ignore SR! Sweet. Sweeeet.
Doug M.
The character trait for Ancient Ones called Worthless Pawn allows you to ignore this restriction.
Highly recommended for a Binder.
Sorcerer (Aberrant, Impossible, or Ghoul Bloodline)
No love for Starsoul?
There are also new gods that aren't included in the guide listed on pathfinder wiki, which are:[list]
The other new gods aren't eligible for the archetype since they were either Neutral Evil or didn't have any compatible domains/subdomains. Correct me if I'm wrong though!
Domains: An Elder Mythos cultist receives only a single domain, chosen from the following list: Chaos, Madness, or Void. He can choose any subdomain of those domains offered by an Outer God or Great Old One he worships.This ability alters domains.
To me this seems like an EMC must choose from one of those domains (even if they aren't offered) but can choose from any Subdomain that their Deity offers.
It doesn't say she must choose a Deity who contains one of those Domains. Ie: "Deities: An Elder Mythos cultist must worship an Outer God or Great Old One with the Chaos, Madness, or Void Domains."
Any ideas?
It would open up a few more Ancient Ones if thats the case.
dot
@Douglas Muir there are also the Caller's Feathers which are one-use items that can boost your HD limit. At 2,000 GP or 1,000 if crafting it, it's a steal at 15th level. There also racisl traits that augment Planar Ally such as the Aasimar's Planar Negotiator, which reduces bargaining prices by 10%, or the Drow's Blasphemous Covenant , which specifically targets demons, but reduces the cost by a whopping 20% on top of giving demons you summoned via Summon Monster additional health.
No love for Starsoul?
I confess I was doing it from memory and forgot about 'em. Actually originally I was just going to say Aberrant.
Still, I have an urge to try a Mystic Theurge build now. Aberrant, plus Lunging Spell Touch, plus Cleric Bad Touch spells seems like it could be a thing. Would take a while to get going, but most of the best 'bad touch' spells are relatively low level (I'm thinking Bestow Curse at Cleric 3rd, or Frigid Touch at Sorc 2nd), so you'd have a lot of endurance relative to most casters.
Domains: An Elder Mythos cultist receives only a single domain, chosen from the following list: Chaos, Madness, or Void. He can choose any subdomain of those domains offered by an Outer God or Great Old One he worships.This ability alters domains.
To me this seems like an EMC must choose from one of those domains (even if they aren't offered) but can choose from any Subdomain that their Deity offers.
It doesn't say she must choose a Deity who contains one of those Domains. Ie: "Deities: An Elder Mythos cultist must worship an Outer God or Great Old One with the Chaos, Madness, or Void Domains."
Any ideas?
It would open up a few more Ancient Ones if thats the case.
It's a bit vague, but if I were a GM, I would probably rule otherwise - that it has to be an Ancient One who actually has one of those domains.
I'll get around to adding the other Ancient Ones later, btw.
In Search of Sanity has a whole section on the Elder Gods, even some new ones (pages 63-73)
It looks great! BTW, I think you can be a cultist of Yig as well, if you want a relatively non-malicous Great Old One (I would say he is like a slightly tamer and less b****y version of Calistria) that plays well with others. The revelry subdomain is not best ever, but having some extra buffs as domain spells and automatically extending many buffs at level 8 isn´t half bad. Yig does not have the extra weapon proficiency that Bokrug offers, though.
Also, I'd like to give my +1 for the Dreamed Secrets, too, although the will save it entails is a bit of a problem for the EMC. But hey, you don't choose this archetype to be sane if you value your sanity all that much.
The moderate limitation I see is that your aligned spell restrictions will prevent you from calling or controlling a big swath of outsiders. If you're CN you're kind of limited to NG/N/NE since you can't cast Protection from Chaos or summon Lawful outsiders.
You can get around the magic circle problem with Thaumaturgic Circle from occult adventures!
" If another archetype the character had before she became an ex-member of her class replaces the same ability as the ex-class archetype, she loses the old archetype in favor of the new one; otherwise, she can retain both archetypes as normal." Antihero's Handbook pg. 12 Even though it only says "replace", we should presume it also applies to altered abilities, at which point you'd lose your Elder Mythos Cultist.