2 levels behind the rest of the party... How bad off am I?


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So through a lot of intermingling surcumstances I have died 4 TIMES IN THE FIRST 2 BOOKS OF THE ADVENTURE! In doing so I am now 2 levels behind the party with no way of catching up, (according to my gm I can't gain xp during down time without the risk of death) so I have no idea what to do now... Any ideas?


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losing levels because death is terrible


You aren't supposed to lose levels in Pathfinder.

Negative levels can be repaired, losing levels is a houserule your GM has introduced.

If your character is weak enough to die four times, your GM should ENCOURAGE you to change it.

I wouldn't continue playing if your GM insists you stay two levels behind the party, it isn't going to be fun.


As others said, death should not cause you to lose levels. Negative levels can be restored, and making a new character enter at a lower level than others is bad form, though often a carry over from old-time groups from 2e, where being a level or two behind wasn't as big of a deal, and was likely to correct itself.


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derpdidruid wrote:
So through a lot of intermingling surcumstances I have died 4 TIMES IN THE FIRST 2 BOOKS OF THE ADVENTURE! In doing so I am now 2 levels behind the party with no way of catching up, (according to my gm I can't gain xp during down time without the risk of death) so I have no idea what to do now... Any ideas?

Like the others have noted, this shouldn't have happened in the first place - negative levels from being resurrected are temporary, they can be cured. However, you may be playing with some (very) old-school house rules in play. Since you mention downtime, there's actually a Rules-legal option to solve the XP gap:

Quote:

Earn XP

If you've missed a campaign session or otherwise fallen behind in XP compared to the other characters, you can spend downtime adventuring to help catch up to the other PCs. Usually downtime adventures feature encounters that are much easier than you'd normally expect as part of a group. For example, a 5th-level character might clear zombies out of a crypt or assist some lower-level adventurers with a problem that's a little too difficult for them.

Spending 1 day of downtime adventuring earns you XP as if you had defeated an opponent whose CR was equal to your character level. For example, if you are a 3rd-level character, you would earn 800 XP. You do not earn any treasure or other capital for downtime adventuring.

If using this downtime activity would increase your XP above the highest XP value among all the PCs in your party, it increases your XP to that value instead; any XP earned beyond this amount is lost. This activity allows you only to catch up, not to get ahead.

It's not a perfect solution, but it's a heck of a lot better than nothing.


My first response was to simply hang back. Unless your GM is a dick (and it sounds like he might be), anyone in the encounter gets XP regardless of if they meaningfully contributed or not.

Basically its the "The raging barbarian went first and critted the monster into goo, everybody else still gets xp for trying though" prevention.

So since you're dying all the time anyway, just hang back and give token effort to be part of the xp cut until you can catch back up (you should require less xp to level than everyone else, and you should actually be lowering the party CR meaning you'll generate more xp).

If anyone says anything about it, just point out that at that low of a level you can't do anything but die anyway. Cheesing the system until you can be a meaningful contribution again is the only way you can help, by staying out of the way.

If the GM doesn't like it, point out that he created the problem and it is within his power to fix it at any point. Until he does so, you are taking the only valid path forwards you see at the time. If he doesn't like that, then he should be offering you alternatives.


No idea why your GM would nerf you even more if you're already dying. All it does is fuel the vicious cycle. Hopefully it was a mistake rather than a houserule so you can reasonably get it fixed because Pathfinder has no mechanic to help you catch up in levels. If he/she won't let you regain the levels then you're better off making a new character and retiring your old one.


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Edymnion wrote:

My first response was to simply hang back. Unless your GM is a dick (and it sounds like he might be), anyone in the encounter gets XP regardless of if they meaningfully contributed or not.

Basically its the "The raging barbarian went first and critted the monster into goo, everybody else still gets xp for trying though" prevention.

So since you're dying all the time anyway, just hang back and give token effort to be part of the xp cut until you can catch back up (you should require less xp to level than everyone else, and you should actually be lowering the party CR meaning you'll generate more xp).

If anyone says anything about it, just point out that at that low of a level you can't do anything but die anyway. Cheesing the system until you can be a meaningful contribution again is the only way you can help, by staying out of the way.

If the GM doesn't like it, point out that he created the problem and it is within his power to fix it at any point. Until he does so, you are taking the only valid path forwards you see at the time. If he doesn't like that, then he should be offering you alternatives.

If you are patient, this response is pretty much perfect.

I would ragequit, but that's just me.

You can't ALT-F4 life. :D


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
derpdidruid wrote:
So through a lot of intermingling surcumstances I have died 4 TIMES IN THE FIRST 2 BOOKS OF THE ADVENTURE! In doing so I am now 2 levels behind the party with no way of catching up, (according to my gm I can't gain xp during down time without the risk of death) so I have no idea what to do now... Any ideas?

I would look for a new DM. I always found it un-fun to play a character that is several levels behind the rest of the party. The point of playing a RPG is to have fun. Arbitrary GM rules about losing levels, or in the case of a GM I had, if you died and needed to start a new character it started at level 1 (even if the party was 10th).

You could talk to the GM and tell him that it isn't fun running a character that cannot contribute and see if he will give you the levels back.


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derpdidruid wrote:
So through a lot of intermingling surcumstances I have died 4 TIMES IN THE FIRST 2 BOOKS OF THE ADVENTURE! In doing so I am now 2 levels behind the party with no way of catching up, (according to my gm I can't gain xp during down time without the risk of death) so I have no idea what to do now... Any ideas?

Why are you 2 levels behind, exactly? Was it an XP penalty for death, the temporary negative levels from Raise Dead or the missing XP because you didn't adventure during the time you were a corpse?

That said, there are multiple ways to deal with it. Some ideas:

a) Endure it. If you get the same XP like everyone else, you will catch up. From a quick glance at the chart, you will roughly gain two levels in the time the others gain one.

b) Try to make the best of it. Support characters don't need to be as powerful as damage dealers, for example. They can still scout, buff, heal etc.. If your character is supposed to be a damage dealer, you are out of luck though.

c) Start a new character. Depending on ruling he might get the same level as your fellow party members, and you could make sure this one is less prone to die. Probably with the help of the GM or another player.

d) Talk to your GM. Tell him such a strong penalty kills your fun and also is a burden for the other players. He might hide behind the statement 'but that's how the rules are!' - then ask him for some way to make up the experience gap. For example a quest just for you, or some help from a friendly NPC.

Liberty's Edge

Edymnion wrote:

My first response was to simply hang back. Unless your GM is a dick (and it sounds like he might be), anyone in the encounter gets XP regardless of if they meaningfully contributed or not.

Basically its the "The raging barbarian went first and critted the monster into goo, everybody else still gets xp for trying though" prevention.

So since you're dying all the time anyway, just hang back and give token effort to be part of the xp cut until you can catch back up (you should require less xp to level than everyone else, and you should actually be lowering the party CR meaning you'll generate more xp).

If anyone says anything about it, just point out that at that low of a level you can't do anything but die anyway. Cheesing the system until you can be a meaningful contribution again is the only way you can help, by staying out of the way.

If the GM doesn't like it, point out that he created the problem and it is within his power to fix it at any point. Until he does so, you are taking the only valid path forwards you see at the time. If he doesn't like that, then he should be offering you alternatives.

If you want more specifics here:

(1) Always stay in the middle of the pack while adventuring through dark caves, etc.

(2) If you have buffs definitely do cast them on yourself.

(3) In combat: (i) If a martial type, just plink away with a ranged weapon (even if you are optimized for melee) from the back of the pack (but be careful not to be too far back in case of an ambush from the rear.) (ii) If a caster type, do as above but plink away with acid splash or a light crossbow--save "real spells" for the inevitable ambush from the back or when you need them.

ALTHOUGH as others have said this is a really boring way to play. Woohoo...you are having fun roleplaying someone who doesn't do anything...So probably your best bet is to talk to the GM. Hopefully they will listen, although there are some hard nosed old timer GMs out there.

The last old-timer GM I had would start new players at a lower level and make you roll for stats. There was also one combat where my character ran away from the party when a BBEG was too much for us. I ran out one door and the party ran out another door. I was playing a rogue with maxed sneakiness, and topped off my health with healing potions so I was at full, ran away a bit, climbed a tree, and went to sleep. The game session ended with me being alone and apparently perfectly fine and at full health. Later that week, the GM emailed me to say that the BBEG had followed me (and apparently not the rest of the party) and killed my character. Note that I had no option to roleplay this. It was just GM fiat. (Actually, I was told I was either dead or somehow survived but all of my items were gone.) This was the first time I had ever been "killed by email" and not even in game time. (It was a face-to-face game.) I had enough and just left the group...


sheepisheidolon wrote:
Why are you 2 levels behind, exactly? Was it an XP penalty for death, the temporary negative levels from Raise Dead or the missing XP because you didn't adventure during the time you were a corpse?

well the first three deaths where at low levels so we didn't have access to raise dead, so i had to bring in a new character. the GM told me I had to start at base xp for the lvl I died at this only put me 1 level behind them. recently however I was killed by a really unfortunate crit, I was level 6 at the time and after the fight my level 7 party leveled up... I did not.

Edit: I would also like to add that none of my characters have been "weak" or "silly". started with a reasonably good gunslinger when I died with him I went with a reasonably well optimized inquisitor. Then a barbarian then a REALLY well optimized inquisitor (current character)


Pathfinder Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Time to talk to the GM about this.

Your characters are dying for whatever reason. You come in with a new character that is weaker, so it dies. Each failure makes it that much tougher for,the next character to succeed.

A two level difference is a huge gap in power level between your character and the others. Even if given the equipment of a higher level character, you really aren't going to be able to be on par with them.


derpdidruid wrote:
So through a lot of intermingling surcumstances I have died 4 TIMES IN THE FIRST 2 BOOKS OF THE ADVENTURE! In doing so I am now 2 levels behind the party with no way of catching up, (according to my gm I can't gain xp during down time without the risk of death) so I have no idea what to do now... Any ideas?

So let's get this straight.

Your character is weak. So weak that he died 4 times when most characters never die. That's pretty weak. Terribly weak.

Then your GM's house rules cause you to lose two levels which only makes you permanently weaker!.

So you have gone from terribly weak to legendarily weak. Bards will sing songs about your weakness for ages to come. OK, no they won't. You'll die horribly enough times that your group will leave you dead out of mercy, and no bards will ever hear of you.

On a side note, why is your adventuring party still associating with you? Their LIVES are on the line. Deadly danger behind every dungeon door. They're counting on everybody in the party to work together to handle that danger. You are not. Your weaksauce is the stuff of legends. You can't help. You can't contribute. The rest of your party should kick you out for their own good (and for yours too).

In case the tone of this post is unclear, everything here is totally wrong. Work with your GM to make a new (hopefully better) character of the same level as everyone else.


Oy. That sounds terrible. Talk to you GM and ask his rationale for allowing characters to have such large XP gaps. It's not fair to punish someone for death by continually making them weaker and easier to kill. As a general rule, I like to my groups at the same level and XP regardless of situation or absence.

The aim of a GM is to make sure people are having fun. He is obviously failing at this task.


I know this isn't the rule forum but you could always point this out to your DM:

PRD - Downtime Activities wrote:

Earn XP

If you've missed a campaign session or otherwise fallen behind in XP compared to the other characters, you can spend downtime adventuring to help catch up to the other PCs. Usually downtime adventures feature encounters that are much easier than you'd normally expect as part of a group. For example, a 5th-level character might clear zombies out of a crypt or assist some lower-level adventures with a problem that's a little too difficult for them.

Spending 1 day of downtime adventuring earns you XP as if you had defeated an opponent whose CR was equal to your character level. For example, if you are a 3rd-level character, you would earn 800 XP. You do not earn any treasure or other capital for downtime adventuring.

If using this downtime activity would increase your XP above the highest XP value among all the PCs in your party, it increases your XP to that value instead; any XP earned beyond this amount is lost. This activity allows you only to catch up, not to get ahead.

EDIT: That should let you catch up pretty quick. That's 5 days to go from 23,000 to 35,000 XP. And 5 more days to go from 35,000 to 53,000.


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Surprised by the number of people here who assume that death has no consequences and that anything else is a house-rule. "New characters appear at a lower level" is quite a common way to play - although not one I particularly like myself.

At least it isn't AD&D-style "all new characters appear at level 1"...


ArtlessKnave wrote:

Oy. That sounds terrible. Talk to you GM and ask his rationale for allowing characters to have such large XP gaps. It's not fair to punish someone for death by continually making them weaker and easier to kill. <b>As a general rule, I like to my groups at the same level and XP regardless of situation or absence.</b>

The aim of a GM is to make sure people are having fun. He is obviously failing at this task.

In our groups (one that I GM and one that I play), we use progress-based leveling and run adventure paths. When the AP says we level up, we level up. Saves on the paperwork and keeps us from having to deal with this.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Matthew Downie wrote:

Surprised by the number of people here who assume that death has no consequences and that anything else is a house-rule. "New characters appear at a lower level" is quite a common way to play - although not one I particularly like myself.

At least it isn't AD&D-style "all new characters appear at level 1"...

I have ran with many GM's that start new characters at a lower level.

This is decidedly UN-FUN. Punishing players for random dice rolls sucks. I will not play with a GM anymore that does this.


Ssyvan wrote:
I know this isn't the rule forum but you could always point this out to your DM

He doesn't have time to do "mini-adventure" and he wont let me just say "Yea Im spending our time at port doing this, rather that earning gold or fame" I will however bring it up again and tell him of this ACTUAL RULE.

Also to answer earlier inquiries, yes my GM is an old time role player while I only started a few years ago. (we both started pathfinder around the same time though) He's become a good friend of mine and this is the first time I have had this much trouble.

P.S. to clarify some things. I did not lose levels from being raised from the dead. my character died and with no way to be raised (at the time) i had to start NEW CHARACTERS!


derpdidruid wrote:
Ssyvan wrote:
I know this isn't the rule forum but you could always point this out to your DM

He doesn't have time to do "mini-adventure" and he wont let me just say "Yea Im spending our time at port doing this, rather that earning gold or fame" I will however bring it up again and tell him of this ACTUAL RULE.

Also to answer earlier inquiries, yes my GM is an old time role player while I only started a few years ago. (we both started pathfinder around the same time though) He's become a good friend of mine and this is the first time I have had this much trouble.

P.S. to clarify some things. I did not lose levels from being raised from the dead. my character died and with no way to be raised (at the time) i had to start NEW CHARACTERS!

Yeah, you don't have to run a mini-adventure for this, you simply spend a downtime day and pick up the XP. The whole point of the adventure you undertake is that it is extremely low risk, so that the DM doesn't have to create a mini-adventure, you can just assume the character is successful.


derpdidruid wrote:
P.S. to clarify some things. I did not lose levels from being raised from the dead. my character died and with no way to be raised (at the time) i had to start NEW CHARACTERS!

That clarification changes things a bit. At least your new character is (I hope) not a wimpy prone-to-death weakling.

The XP tables are built such that you can catch up. Sort of. You'll never have the same amount of XP as everyone else, but a few levels from now you might only be one level behind instead of two, and a few levels after that there may be times where you gain a level and for a little while you're the same level as everyone else, until they gain their next level before you - but you'll be the same level some of the time.

Still, it's pretty harsh that he's insisting on starting over at level 1. What will he do when you're all 12th level and someone dies? Make that guy bring a level 1 character to the level 12 group?


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
derpdidruid wrote:
Also to answer earlier inquiries, yes my GM is an old time role player while I only started a few years ago. (we both started pathfinder around the same time though) He's become a good friend of mine and this is the first time I have had this much trouble.

I get it, and as an old-time roleplayer, this was a frequent attitude back in the day. Often times, even if the other guys were like 6th or 7th level, we would have to start at 1st level (if we were new, or if our character died).

Your DM is being less severe, since you never lost levels for being raised, and those times you had to make a brand-new character, he just set you at base xp for the level. On the whole, not too severe a situation. However, you should try to explain to him that being *forever* behind by 2 levels makes the game decidedly un-fun for you.

Here is the solution which we used in our old DD3.5 campaign, and which could work for you:

As long as you are behind the party in level, you should really *learn more* from each encounter. You should earn, say, 50% more xp from any session where you are 2 levels behind, and 25% bonus xp as long as you are still one level behind.

That way, you won't have to endure the situation forever, and your DM gets to cling to his outmoded grognard paradigms. Everybody wins.


DM_Blake wrote:
Still, it's pretty harsh that he's insisting on starting over at level 1. What will he do when you're all 12th level and someone dies? Make that guy bring a level 1 character to the level 12 group?

The GM's policy is that your new character is at base XP for your current level. It's just happened so many times for one PC he's now two levels behind.


Wheldrake wrote:
However, you should try to explain to him that being *forever* behind by 2 levels makes is decidedly un-fun.

He's behind by something like 28,000 XP. If the game continues to level 12, that's only half a level's worth. Assuming he can stop dying.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Matthew Downie wrote:
Wheldrake wrote:
However, you should try to explain to him that being *forever* behind by 2 levels makes is decidedly un-fun.
He's behind by something like 28,000 XP. If the game continues to level 12, that's only half a level's worth. Assuming he can stop dying.

Sure, but any DM worth his salt should offer an opportunity to "catch up" with the rest of the group. In DD3.5 there was a specific mechanism for this, since the CR calculation was in relationship to a characters level. Frankly, in my old DD3.5 campaign, when I gave 3000 xp to each player at the end of the session, the guys who were behind a level or more just got a flat bonus, like 4000 or 5000 xp, until they caught up, and we rationalized it by saying they were learning the adventuring ropes from the higher level guys.

But hey, whatever swings your chicken.


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Here's a thought.

If you're latest character is evil, just slaughter the other PCs one night in camp. They all start new PCs with lower XP. Bonus: you get XP for killing them. Repeat until YOU are the guy with the most XP.

Problem solved.

j/k

Sort of.

Nah, really j/k.

Really.


Level your character up.


IMO, putting one player behind the others in terms of XP is really only a good solution when we're trying to balance out a party that has wildly different levels of optimization and skill (for example compare a level 6 optimized druid played by a 10 year veteran to a level 8 totally unoptimized rogue played by a newbie, the druid's still going to come out ahead.) The person who is dying all the time for whatever reason is probably the last person we need to penalize in this manner though.

I mean, the goal is to have situations where everybody in the party gets to contribute and have fun. If you are actively standing in the way of this as the GM, you should probably reconsider your priorities.


I'm curious as to why the rest of the party isn't saying anything. You shouldn't be two levels behind everyone and dying all the time. My first suggestion is talk with the group out of game. It may be the DM is a jerk and doesn't like you. It happens. If that is the case find another group or maybe have someone else run.
Most Dm's also run so they often are not out to kill the party knowing at some point their character is in the firing line. A DM's job is to challenge the party not kill them. Will admit if I drop a PC to zero especially a tough one I'm happy.
As far as dying four times maybe a new character would help. I have had DM's not tell me anything throwing me into a situation where my character is useless. Personally I hate that so do a lot of players. Now if he is running something he is creating and doesn't know that is different.
Now I am laid back. I often allow players to make changes to their characters preferring they stick with their original idea for it. I have seen characters that seem great in people's head turn out to be just walking body bags on paper.


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Matthew Downie wrote:

Surprised by the number of people here who assume that death has no consequences and that anything else is a house-rule. "New characters appear at a lower level" is quite a common way to play - although not one I particularly like myself.

At least it isn't AD&D-style "all new characters appear at level 1"...

It's not about death having "no consequences", it's about the DM being a dick to a player, and also being a dick to the rest of the party for forcing them to carry a useless member.

The difference in power even with one level in Pathfinder is staggering. You can't have party members with different character levels and expect the campaign to function, period.


I wouldn't call the difference staggering, but it is noticeable.


The other problem is that the Pathfinder xp system doesn't allow for a fast catchup like some other rpg systems. Being 4 levels behind in Pathfinder means that you are probably staying 3-4 levels behind for the campaign.

The DM in question probably doesn't understand how poor the level catchup in Pathfinder is, and how much his house rule has broken the game for your character.


We used to track individual xp, but stopped for the very reason that it's bad to have characters at different levels. Now we just have the GM tell us when the group levels and don't bother with xp.

You might bring this idea up to the GM.


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I do the same (in most cases). I may or may not still use XP - depends on the game - but if XP's present at all, it's party XP and where everyone is at. In my experience, losing a character you invested time and emotion into is a sufficient loss all by itself, and I see no reason to punish players by making them permanently weaker on top of that.


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nicholas storm wrote:

We used to track individual xp, but stopped for the very reason that it's bad to have characters at different levels. Now we just have the GM tell us when the group levels and don't bother with xp.

You might bring this idea up to the GM.

I do something similar to this when I GM. Tracking individual XP awards for fights is a tremendous waste of everyone's time, so I mostly break down levels into "you need to complete this many meaningful goals in order to hit the next level" and players get credit for this whether it's "beat up the top minion of the bad guy to send a message" or "raise the funds you need for the expedition" or "recover the Macguffin, albeit temporarily" or "convince the Duc to let you borrow a ship."

I find players are more interested in not fighting literally everything when they don't receive the lion's share of their XP from fights. and are much more interested in completing narrative or in-character objectives when that's the way they achieve power.


My gm is aware of the no XP style of leveling but, he likes the old way (individual XP) better. We did consider it but that was before a few other people came into the game, so maybe the balance has tipped?

None of my characters have survived more than 2 levels, (maybe other than the first one but that was so long ago I can't even remember) So be real emotional attachment was formed before they started dropping.


When we did individual xp, most of the problems came from people missing sessions and falling behind. Group xp allows people to miss a session when they have to and not fall behind. We have 3 in our group that are pretty fanatical about playing, so when we did individual xp and others missed sessions, they would start to fall behind and get less interested in playing.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Well, first, whatever you are doing that gets you killed so much, STOP DOING IT. Let someone else be the arrow sponge.

Second, how is your WBL? If it is the same as the rest of the party, you shouldn't be so bad off.

Third, invest in more defense. Save and ac boosters. If a caster, more self-buffing spells. For a melee, hang back and shoot, or start using a shield.

It may change the way the whole party works, but you do what you have to do to live. Let someone else be the focus of enemy ire.


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We play with group XP unless something specific happens with a specific character. We try to let everyone gain such XP besides group XP to keep everyone at the same level. We used to play first edition D&D where different classes had different XP and it made a huge difference.
If we missed a player for a game or two we leveled him with us giving him the average XP of everyone. The only time we didn't reward XP was if a character was being completely unreasonable and was disrupting the game and then eventually we remove them from our group.
We got together because we liked each other and wanted to get together. Playing was almost secondary.


Aelryinth wrote:
Well, first, whatever you are doing that gets you killed so much, STOP DOING IT. Let someone else be the arrow sponge.

That's the thing! I don't know what I'm doing that causes this! I usually survive rather easily but with this campaign I just can't seem to stay alive...


Ask the other players they might see a pattern as to why you die. Is the DM always aiming for you? That seems a strong possibility.


Ignoring all of the blubbering about how unfun it is to play at a lower level than the rest of the party, I'd like to counter the assertion that you will be permanently behind the rest of the party forever.

Let's assume the party is level 5, and you are level 3. On the medium track, that means you are 10,000 XP behind the party. And let's assume you are allowed to do NOTHING to catch up XP-wise.

The party gains 6th level at 23,000. You will be at level 4 with 13,000 xp.

The party gains 7th level at 35,000. You will be at level 6 with 25,000 XP.

The party gains 8th level at 51,000. You will be level 7 with 41,000. Before they are even half way to 9th level at 75,000, you will be 8th level. After this, the XP gap narrows to less than 20% of the next levels. The time spent, if any, at a lower level will drop to insignificance.

This happens no matter what level you are. The most severe two level gap would be with a 3rd level party and 1st level character. It will also be the quickest corrected, since it is a 5000 xp gap. Playing in a 12th level party with a 10th level character, or a 20th level party with a 18th level character is hardly even noticeable, assuming even a moderate lack of entitlement.


so my biggest question, is has anyone else died once?

cuz if you die 4 times, honestly, the problem is probably you :P


It's easy to point fingers, but sometimes you just have a streak of bad luck. Death happens unless your GM is pulling punches.


Granted bad luck happens but four times seems to suggest more then bad luck.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

More data required. Which ap and what are you playing? How is your wbl and gear?


Derek Dalton wrote:
Granted bad luck happens but four times seems to suggest more then bad luck.

He said the first three deaths were at low level, where you are most likely to die to just plain bad luck, through unlucky crits. But on top of low level squishiness, he would have been at least a level behind the party most of the time, which would also make him more likely to die. Think of dying as a vicious cycle.


From my experience, when I see a player who continuously has a character repeatedly die, it’s generally the play style of the player vs Gm play style. For example, my table has a very seasoned GM who spends endless hours understanding rules and procedures. He enjoys in-depth role playing, and puts an emphasis on characters being created with a lot of flavor.

On the other hand, one of our players spends a lot of time on the optimization boards and is a stellar min-max optimizer. In addition to this, he is a little green, with a focused mind on making his character as powerful as possible. In fact, I believe this aspect of the game is what he enjoys. To this end, he usually is the first in the door and in the BBG’s face. At times, the encounter calls for a very aggressive front. Other times….well….it doesn’t end so well for the greenhorn.

I believe that applying a 2 level gap to your character may be his way of slowing you down a bit. In my experience, if this is the case, I don’t think it will have the desired effect. It will likely frustrate you to the point of quitting. Especially if being in the limelight is a big part of your enjoyment. Sometimes people forget the real objective is to enjoy the game and the time you spend together.


derpdidruid wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:
Well, first, whatever you are doing that gets you killed so much, STOP DOING IT. Let someone else be the arrow sponge.
That's the thing! I don't know what I'm doing that causes this! I usually survive rather easily but with this campaign I just can't seem to stay alive...

It happens. But let's see if we can spot a pattern....

How'd the 1st character die?

How'd the 2nd die?

How'd the 3rd die?

The 4th?

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