Strategy Guide Update

Someone is probably in big trouble. I used to work in the design department of a printing company. This stuff is super expensive to screw up and them eating the cost means someone is in big trouble.

That's a bummer. I was really looking forward to this, but it ain't y'all's fault, so I can wait a little longer.

Someone is probably in big trouble. I used to work in the design department of a printing company. This stuff is super expensive to screw up and them eating the cost means someone is in big trouble.

It's China, so they'll probably be lucky if they're only "in big trouble." :D

-Skeld

Wow. How does that even happen? Is there a transition point where the ink is dry enough to look dry, but still damp enough to transfer given pressure and time? I'm assuming there's some sort of quality check that this batch somehow made it through...

Man, this poor book has been through a lot of turmoil! Also, surprised that you already have a formal release date for it. For everyone's sake, lets hope its the final one.

Wow. How does that even happen? Is there a transition point where the ink is dry enough to look dry, but still damp enough to transfer given pressure and time?

There is, but there's also a lot of environmental factors (relative humidity, the density of the ink on the rollers) that could have affected things.

On the plus side, that sample page looks amazing. I'm very excited for this product. Can't believe it's delayed again! Someone hexed it, right?

That's a bummer. I was really looking forward to this, but it ain't y'all's fault, so I can wait a little longer.

SeraphX2 wrote:

Someone is probably in big trouble. I used to work in the design department of a printing company. This stuff is super expensive to screw up and them eating the cost means someone is in big trouble.

It's China, so they'll probably be lucky if they're only "in big trouble." :D

-Skeld

Is Kurt Russell there? Cause he can help.

Guess this is what happens when the ink is made from a pugwampi blood base.

Terminalmancer wrote:

Wow. How does that even happen? Is there a transition point where the ink is dry enough to look dry, but still damp enough to transfer given pressure and time?

There is, but there's also a lot of environmental factors (relative humidity, the density of the ink on the rollers) that could have affected things.

Makes sense! I'm happy for you guys that they're not sticking you with the bill. I do hope the next batch arrives in one piece! Or in discrete pieces with discrete pages, as per the plan...

I'm guessing there's no chance the PDF will come out sooner?

Bummer for those who wanted to give these as Christmas gifts but what can you do.

One less Christmas present, one more Valentine's Day present!

I'm starting to feel like the Strategy Guide is Paizo's unicorn....

Well damn, I was hoping to have this book for my gaming event in January.

Too Bad... sample page looks great though!

When Kobolds of Golarian was screwed up at the printers, you used a Canadian printer and everyone noticed the increase in quality. I was gonna ask why you didn't do this again, but I guess no-one would pay for the second run.

If the Chinese printer screwed up as it appears, I bet someone has already been sent to a gulag for it.

-Proud Canadian

Hm, the guide suggests putting a rank in a Knowledge skill, which is okay, but investing a rank in *Sense Motive* instead of Heal... why? IMO Heal is way more important for newbies. Especially as you usually get 2-3 ranks per level.

I'm interested in seeing a scan of the sample page from the messed-up books, for comparison's sake.

Hm, the guide suggests putting a rank in a Knowledge skill, which is okay, but investing a rank in *Sense Motive* instead of Heal... why? IMO Heal is way more important for newbies. Especially as you usually get 2-3 ranks per level.

Nah, you've got channeling and spontaneous cures for that. Sense Motive is a handy skill for most any RP scene, although I would generally favor Perception over Sense Motive personally.

Too bad we can't see the PDF.

I mainly see Heal used to establish cause of death; rarely for actual healing.

Wow. Delayed again. I must say I am disappointed but I understand the reasons. This marks the third printing issue in 6 months. First there was the misprint on the Advanced Class Guide, then there was the bad print run of the card game, and now this.

Maybe you guys should consider getting a new printer.

I mainly see Heal used to establish cause of death; rarely for actual healing.

Given it's one of the very few non-magical ways of restoring hp, I'd count it as an important skill ... until the party gets their first happystick, that is :)

This book looks gorgeous. Can't wait to see the finished product. It looks like similar graphic design to the Beginner Box books.

Wow. Delayed again. I must say I am disappointed but I understand the reasons. This marks the third printing issue in 6 months. First there was the misprint on the Advanced Class Guide, then there was the bad print run of the card game, and now this.

Maybe you guys should consider getting a new printer.

This was my thought as well.

Well, I think the Advanced Class Guide getting the wrong logo wasn't the printer's fault. And my sense is that the card game isn't printed by the same printers as the RPG line.

I hope the next announcement won't involve a Kaiju eating the ship with the reprinted books

I thin Paizo should make the PDF available for purchase, and reimburse/charge $10 less to subscribers who should get one for free on the processing of their phsical book order/sub. Less of a wait for the desperate! :D

There were some pages in my copy of the Monster Codex that were stuck together, but I was able to separate them without damaging them. This sounds like the same problem, but worse.

I thin Paizo should make the PDF available for purchase, and reimburse/charge $10 less to subscribers who should get one for free on the processing of their phsical book order/sub. Less of a wait for the desperate! :D

For what it's worth, the Strategy Guide is not part of a subscription (though subscribers who opt in for the hardcover still get the complimentary PDF). I'm not sure giving a $10 credit for something subscribers aren't paying for anyway makes much financial sense.

An earlier PDF release would be nice, though. This book delay botched at least one Christmas.

Bah. I was hoping to use this soon to transition my group from the Beginner Box to the full rules. Looks like we'll be sticking with the beginner version until next year now. Although we can transition at the same time that we start Giantslayer, so it's not the end of the world!

Bah. I was hoping to use this soon to transition my group from the Beginner Box to the full rules. Looks like we'll be sticking with the beginner version until next year now. Although we can transition at the same time that we start Giantslayer, so it's not the end of the world!

"This product is not part of any subscription, but Pathfinder Roleplaying Game subscribers who preorder this set will receive a free PDF edition of this product when the print edition ships. (Note that you will need to have an active Pathfinder RPG subscription at the time this product ships in order to receive the PDF for free.)"

So what I mean is:
1. Make the PDF available now to all and sundry for $9.99
2. A person who has a PRPG sub and orders the hardback, having previously ordered (and paid for) the PDF, that person should get the hardback for $20 as they have previously paid for the PDF.

Paizo do this for people who order a PDF of a 3PP and then it comes out as a bundle at a later time.
It means everyone can get the PDF now, not next year, including subscribers who don't get charged extra. Paizo get the money earlier, too! WIN WIN!

I will be happy to wait but I know a lot of others want this ASAP.

I hope the next announcement won't involve a Kaiju eating the ship with the reprinted books

I'm pretty sure James would giggle like a schoolgirl and clap with unabashed glee if that happened. And if Cuthulu rose from R'yleh to get his tenticals wrapped around the shipment he would just explode in happiness.

Add me to the disappointed -- I've really been looking forward to this book as a resource for my middle schoolers.

The preview looks great! I'm glad that Scribe Scroll got a little love, and it opens people's eyes to strategic considerations beyond "How can i I do maximum damage?"

I'm wondering why the equipment recommendation for the Battle Priest suggests a longsword. Aren't clerics non-proficient with those?

I'm wondering why the equipment recommendation for the Battle Priest suggests a longsword. Aren't clerics non-proficient with those?

I suppose they're presuming Iomedae as the default deity selection.

I guess they don't like to suggest the evil deities to players, but I'm a bit sad negative channelers didn't get an entry. They're way more interesting than the positive channeling varieties, at any rate.

I think a release of a PDF would be swell...awesome...great!

I guess they don't like to suggest the evil deities to players, but I'm a bit sad negative channelers didn't get an entry. They're way more interesting than the positive channeling varieties, at any rate.

This is a strategy guide largely intended for newer players and they should not pick negative energy to start off. Positive energy channeling is a vastly superior choice for PC's.

I hope the next announcement won't involve a Kaiju eating the ship with the reprinted books

Though it'd be the marketing stunt of the century.

I hope the next announcement won't involve a Kaiju eating the ship with the reprinted books

My first thought was a Kraken. But a Kaiju works too.

So what I mean is:
1. Make the PDF available now to all and sundry for $9.99
2. A person who has a PRPG sub and orders the hardback, having previously ordered (and paid for) the PDF, that person should get the hardback for $20 as they have previously paid for the PDF.

Paizo do this for people who order a PDF of a 3PP and then it comes out as a bundle at a later time.
It means everyone can get the PDF now, not next year, including subscribers who don't get charged extra. Paizo get the money earlier, too! WIN WIN!

I will be happy to wait but I know a lot of others want this ASAP.

The biggest issue with this is many of the people that want it ASAP and get the PDF may end up deciding they don't really need the print product after all, while if it had come out simultaneously they may have picked up both.

Lots of print books sitting unsold in Paizo's inventory is a bad thing, and probably far worse for business than disappointing people with a delay. Print books *have* to be shifted, while ebooks are just a nice additional profit.

That's probably the main reason there's no option to buy a PDF before the hard copies go on sale (and why non-subscribers have to wait a week or two after release to get a PDF.)

Also, Paizo try very hard not to make bricks and mortar stores mad at them by selling through their website earlier than the street date. This would seem to come close to this, so it's probably unlikely.

On the plus side, last night I showed the sample page to my wife and a few friends who happened to be creating characters for a new campaign we're starting. My wife and 2 of the group really enjoy Pathfinder, but find character creation a bit overwhelming. I have to say all three loved the new layout, and I'm looking forward to adding the book to my gaming library

Duane

This makes me all the sad. I've got some players who desperately need this book.

I'd be curious to see an example of a book from the damaged print run. It would be interesting to see what the wet ink looked like when you got it.

They must've forgot the aqueous coating, perhaps?
http://printingwiki.org/?tag=aqueous-coating
usually that will protect the inks so you can cut and bind stuff without smearing or ink transfer.
I imagine thats what the pages look like, lots of transfer and smearing from where the bindery machines grabbed them. This is something that should've been caught WAY early on in the process. during cutting, they shouldn't have ever been shipped. As a designer, this is the single most horrible thing that can happen to you. Getting a big box of product and finding its all messed up. I feel for you all! No fun! Glad to see the company step up and pay for the reprint.

If the Chinese printer screwed up as it appears, I bet someone has already been sent to a gulag for it.

This is a really extreme reaction, and really uncalled for. An interesting fact is that we've had more people complain about the print quality of our products when it's printed in North America than when it's printed in China.

I thin Paizo should make the PDF available for purchase, and reimburse/charge $10 less to subscribers who should get one for free on the processing of their phsical book order/sub. Less of a wait for the desperate! :D

Trying to get this set up and functioning correctly is a technical hurdle we do not need on our plates right now, to be honest.

Paizo do this for people who order a PDF of a 3PP and then it comes out as a bundle at a later time.

It means everyone can get the PDF now, not next year, including subscribers who don't get charged extra. Paizo get the money earlier, too! WIN WIN!

Third-party bundles are handled in an entirely different manner, and there are a number of hoops and manual hand-holding that needs to be done when this happens. Trying to do something similar with our own products opens up a whole different can of worms.

Well, I think the Advanced Class Guide getting the wrong logo wasn't the printer's fault. And my sense is that the card game isn't printed by the same printers as the RPG line.

Correct and correct.

The biggest issue with this is many of the people that want it ASAP and get the PDF may end up deciding they don't really need the print product after all, while if it had come out simultaneously they may have picked up both.

Lots of print books sitting unsold in Paizo's inventory is a bad thing, and probably far worse for business than disappointing people with a delay.

Also, Paizo try very hard not to make bricks and mortar stores mad at them by selling through their website earlier than the street date. This would seem to come close to this, so it's probably unlikely.

Both of these things, yes.

Having another delay on this book is immensely frustrating for everybody here at Paizo, but we would rather have a book delayed to meet our production standards than sell sub-standard product.

Another delay? NOOOoooooo!!! I was planning to get this as a Christmas present for my best friend who only recently started playing in my group. Well, it looks like I'll be giving him a Valentine's Day present instead.

I'd rather give him a high quality Paizo book rather than a one with print problems.

Thanks for maintaining high quality on your books. I'm sad to see delays.

Funny observation: that one time I've have had a problem with a Chinese client, there were apologies, remedies and a bottle of cognac delivered by UPS to my home.

(If only they knew that I prefer Scotch over cognac!)

{looks around nervously} I told the vexgits Vinnie, his brother Vance, and his other brother Vance, that mucking up this print run was going too far, and someone would design a gremlin-hunter ranger or gunslinger archetype in retaliation. {spots a dozen red dots on his body} AUGH!

This book looks gorgeous. Can't wait to see the finished product. It looks like similar graphic design to the Beginner Box books.

I think that was intentional - this book is supposed to be the next after a new player has 'mastered' the Beginner Box, so the two products are pretty closely tied together