When are we getting a merchant class?


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

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Horizon Hunters

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A goblin wearing burned, torn, bloody, and mud-covered, formally fancy merchant clothing enters the room, limping, with a little help from several other Pathfinders.

" As a goblin merchant working for the Pathfinder Society, I'd like to thank whoever came up with the retail incentive program. It's great to see other merchants helping each other out in times of need. Today, I was killed not once but twice, and although my party was able to save me the first time. Apparently, casting Draw Ire, and then setting a huge walking tree spirit thing on fire makes them really mad. It hit me so hard the second time, I was dead before I was even smashed into the ground. But then something ironic happened, I a merchant, was saved by the retail incentive program. Me My family the Morerats, would like to thank you for creating the retail incentive program. Any chance of us hard-working merchants being recognized as a class?


Chances are likely slim, as being a potential class having to do with money and transactions of goods, the Paizo team might be quite stingy with something that can mess with the intended Wealth By Level (equivalent in PF2).

Oh, and the usual "hostility" against JRPG tropes too (still remember the flak I endure when proposing separate water/air/earth damage types now and then, such as "Go play Pok*mon," etc.).


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The important thing to ask here is; what mechanics would a merchant class have? PF2e classes usually justify their existance through their mechanics and not their flavor necesarily, so a merchant class needs unique mechanics to exist. I could probably see an archetype though.


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What do they do in the tactical combat that makes up the bulk of PF2's play?

How do they deliver on their class fantasy without breaking the game's fairly strict assumptions around gear progression?


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And also - can this class fantasy be better expressed as an archetype that can be taken on any class with the right set of skills?


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Can we not bloat up the system with a base class which can be expressed perfectly fine with the current skill system and the existing classes? Or maybe a one-page archetype in an adventure path?


Don't see a merchant class itself being a thing. It does not have much identity that cannot be fulfilled by other things, like say the bard or the envoy. I can, however see it being an archetype, especially as a less culty Prophet of Kalistrade.


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What's next a capitalist class? It's time to abolish class...

Horizon Hunters

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AestheticDialectic wrote:

What's next a capitalist class? It's time to abolish class... [/QUOTE

Cleavis looks confused.
"What's a capitalist? Is that someone who owns capital? I just own a small family-run shop, and we have free soup for anyone who stops by, whether they buy something or not. That's how we got our family name, Morerats. The pot of Mrorat's soup has been in our family for generations, it's never run out, or cleaned, we just keep adding more rats!"


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AestheticDialectic wrote:
What's next a capitalist class? It's time to abolish class...

There need be only one class, comrade. Join us in the revolution and make your PC of the working class!

Horizon Hunters

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I should have named this post something else. The main point was that I thought it was funny that a merchant was saved by the retail incentive program. The class part was intended to be more like unionizing for merchant rights in the Pathfinders Society.

Horizon Hunters

keftiu wrote:


How do they deliver on their class fantasy without breaking the game's fairly strict assumptions around gear progression?

All of my gold I gained from being a merchant comes from downtime using mercantile lore, which keeps things in balance.

Although my pretend intent is to sell it all, I always have a backpack stuffed with as much as I can carry. I have lots of consumables of all types, but heavy on healing, and then I pack every item I can afford that has 0 bulk. Just today, I was able to pull out a brass ear to help other PCs over here in a conversation. So I end up saying this a lot. "I was going to sell this, but think it might be better if we use it now."

Another way I play a merchant without breaking the game's gear progression is bartering instead of selling.

An actual trade deal did come on it play today. We were in a village that did not like strangers. So I tried to buy some local clothing to fit in better, and hoped spending some coins would help get the merchant to give us some info we were looking for. The merchant was trying to overcharge us, and I was able to figure that out and get a better deal, and the info using mercantile lore.

In some scenarios, being a merchant helped with missions, setting up a trade deal for the Pathfinder Society. So a lot of it is more making deals than making sales.

As far as combat goes, I'm getting too tired to explain how, but today, after the boss monsters killed me with 2 massive crit hits, each single hit doing more than my total full HP, the boss monster died from the persistent fire damage I had started.

Horizon Hunters

moosher12 wrote:
Don't see a merchant class itself being a thing. It does not have much identity that cannot be fulfilled by other things, like say the bard or the envoy. I can, however see it being an archetype, especially as a less culty Prophet of Kalistrade.

Sorcerer is a surprisingly powerful class for being a merchant; it's charisma-based, and there are a lot of spells that are great for common merchant chores. But most of that you can get just from level 1. Adding to that, the alchemist archetype helps a lot with being able to throw bombs you can buy, and make a few of your own. The bard or the envoy helps a lot to reinforce social skills and adds some support abilities. A class or archetype that combined the best merchant features of all those classes would make a great merchant.


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Cleavis Morerats wrote:


All of my gold I gained from being a merchant comes from downtime using mercantile lore, which keeps things in balance.

Although my pretend intent is to sell it all, I always have a backpack stuffed with as much as I can carry. I have lots of consumables of all types, but heavy on healing, and then I pack every item I can afford that has 0 bulk. Just today, I was able to pull out a brass ear to help other PCs over here in a conversation. So I end up saying this a lot. "I was going to sell this, but think it might be better if we use it now."

Another way I play a merchant without breaking the game's gear progression is bartering instead of selling.

An actual trade deal did come on it play today. We were in a village that did not like strangers. So I tried to buy some local clothing to fit in better, and hoped spending some coins would help get the merchant to give us some info we were looking for. The merchant was trying to overcharge us, and I was able to figure that out and get a better deal, and the info using mercantile lore.

In some scenarios, being a merchant helped with missions, setting up a trade deal for the Pathfinder Society. So a lot of it is more making deals than making sales.

As far as combat goes, I'm getting too tired to explain how, but today, after the boss monsters killed me with 2 massive crit hits, each single hit doing more than my total full HP, the boss monster died from the persistent fire damage I had started.

Honestly, it sounds like the 'merchant fantasy' is really just the 'itemcrafter fantasy' in most ways? We have an alchemist class and half a dozen archetypes that both provide a free supply of items and makes it easier to craft them, so I guess case closed.

Might be funny to think of an alchemist's versatile vials as, like deals you make along the way, bartering various stuff that's not worth gp exactly until you get something approximating a useful alchemical item. That flavour is obviously harder to pull in some compaigns than others, but maybe you're haggling with the interdimentional barter realm every 10 min to recharge your versatile vials while walking through the manor of the crime lord you're fighting.

Paizo Employee Community & Social Media Specialist

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While we don’t have a merchant class, you could certainly alter some of the stats from that merchants in NPC core into a homebrew class! Seems feasible to me!

Horizon Hunters

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Maya Coleman wrote:
While we don’t have a merchant class, you could certainly alter some of the stats from that merchants in NPC core into a homebrew class! Seems feasible to me!

I originally made this character as an NPC, but had so much fun making it, I decided to play it for a while as a PC to help get in character and deepen their background story. I've been surprised how fun and effective this character has been. I think it goes to show how hard it is to build a bad character in PF2e.

Horizon Hunters

Ryangwy wrote:
Cleavis Morerats wrote:


All of my gold I gained from being a merchant comes from downtime using mercantile lore, which keeps things in balance.

Although my pretend intent is to sell it all, I always have a backpack stuffed with as much as I can carry. I have lots of consumables of all types, but heavy on healing, and then I pack every item I can afford that has 0 bulk. Just today, I was able to pull out a brass ear to help other PCs over here in a conversation. So I end up saying this a lot. "I was going to sell this, but think it might be better if we use it now."

Another way I play a merchant without breaking the game's gear progression is bartering instead of selling.

An actual trade deal did come on it play today. We were in a village that did not like strangers. So I tried to buy some local clothing to fit in better, and hoped spending some coins would help get the merchant to give us some info we were looking for. The merchant was trying to overcharge us, and I was able to figure that out and get a better deal, and the info using mercantile lore.

In some scenarios, being a merchant helped with missions, setting up a trade deal for the Pathfinder Society. So a lot of it is more making deals than making sales.

As far as combat goes, I'm getting too tired to explain how, but today, after the boss monsters killed me with 2 massive crit hits, each single hit doing more than my total full HP, the boss monster died from the persistent fire damage I had started.

Honestly, it sounds like the 'merchant fantasy' is really just the 'itemcrafter fantasy' in most ways? We have an alchemist class and half a dozen archetypes that both provide a free supply of items and makes it easier to craft them, so I guess case closed.

Might be funny to think of an alchemist's versatile vials as, like deals you make along the way, bartering various stuff that's not worth gp exactly until you get something approximating a useful alchemical item. That flavour is obviously harder to...

Originally, I took the alchemist archetype to help throw bombs I could buy, but the versatile vials do help a lot, and add to the crafting flavor as you said. I think the character mostly ends up playing is as someone who is good at making trade deals, and as a kind of front-line supply sergeant who tries to find ways to aid the party, or solve problems with the equipment they have, also kind of a merchant Macgyver.


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I've generally used Thaumaturge when I need a playable merchant character. They're charsima-based, they have some semi-unique items, and they have two chains of feats for free item creation.

Alchemist is certainly a solid contender as well, better able to hand items out to allies for them to use, and intelligence makes for good Earn a Living rolls off of a Lore.

Prescient Planner and Prescient Consumable are a big way to make a merchant character feel like one- especially if used for something like selling somebody exactly what they need when they need it.

Horizon Hunters

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QuidEst wrote:

I've generally used Thaumaturge when I need a playable merchant character. They're charsima-based, they have some semi-unique items, and they have two chains of feats for free item creation.

Alchemist is certainly a solid contender as well, better able to hand items out to allies for them to use, and intelligence makes for good Earn a Living rolls off of a Lore.

Prescient Planner and Prescient Consumable are a big way to make a merchant character feel like one- especially if used for something like selling somebody exactly what they need when they need it.

I like using Prescient Planner on fortune teller character, too; it's fun to get to say "The cards told me you were going to need this," then pull it out of your backpack.


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I'm a particular fan of the Bargain Hunter feat for making merchant characters, myself. I like the fantasy of asking to borrow a couple copper from party members, then showing up in a couple days with tens of gold in my pockets.


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Although the OP was written mostly in jest, I feel there’s more value to a merchant class than people are giving it credit, puns intended. Current item-based classes like the Alchemist and Inventor are held back by limitations on the game’s economy, so it could be quite interesting to have a class whose USP is specifically that they play with that economy in exciting and useful ways. Prescient Planner and Prescient Consumable are fun feats to use, so it could be interesting to see what a class (or even just an archetype) can do by ramping that up to 11. It could also be interesting to have a class that happens to have the right item for the occasion, much like a prepared arcane caster uses their spells as a toolbox, and dig into how one could go about putting those items to better use, and interacting with NPCs as a merchant (maybe you could even haggle with other merchants and form trade routes!).

Horizon Hunters

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Prescient Planner and Prescient Consumable are great for merchants.
I also like Bargain Hunter, City Scavenger, and Eyes of the City.

I can't remember the name. Someone was telling me about a feat that gave you some benefit in combat for counting the enemy's arrows or something like that, it kind of sounded like approximate for combat. I haven't kept up wiht all the new feats, so I need to go back and see what else might work for merchants.

An idea for a merchant ability, give them a reaction to protect objects of importance or value. Either to prevent them from falling and breaking, or to stop someone from grabbing it. Trying to protect objects is one of the reasons I play my merchant as a sorcerer, to be able to cast Alarm to protect my equipment/merchindise when sleeping, which normally also means protecting the party.

Some boots to defence or temp HP when carrying a certain amount of gold, and some petality if they have less the some minimum amount. Basically, showing they are more willing to take risks to protect something, and more willing to just run away when nothing is at stake.

I like playing merchants that have spells useful to merchants, but an arms dealer merchant could be a more martial version.


Don't we have a Merchant archetype of some sort?


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I don't think there is. I wouldn't mind theorycrafting one though! I think Bargain Hunter, Presicent Planner, and Prescient Consumable have to be involved in some way. I think the dedication could probably require you to have the Bargain Hunter feat, grant you Additional Lore on Mercantile Lore and allow you to use Mercantile Lore instead of Diplomacy for Bargain Hunter, and that if you succeed on earn income as part of using Bargain Hunter you get a crit succeed instead. The archetype could also borrow Predictive Purchase from the investigator as a 6th or 7th level feat too.

Horizon Hunters

I don't see a Merchant archetype. What we have currently.

Merchant background gives, trained in the Diplomacy skill, and the Mercantile Lore skill. You gain the Bargain Hunter skill feat.

Magical Merchant background gives, trained in the Crafting skill, and the Mercantile Lore skill. You gain the Crafter's Appraisal skill feat.

The merchant NPC from the Gammastery Guide has Appraising Eye. The merchant can use Mercantile Lore to Recall Knowledge about items, including determining their value. They can also attempt to Identify Magic using Mercantile Lore and can do so without first knowing whether the item is magical.

Horizon Hunters

Although I think it's doable in PF2e, I wonder if a merchant class or archetype would work better in Startinfer. One advantage Starfinder has is that the PCs have access to a starship. Having some place to store merchandise other than a backpack helps a lot. SF1e also has the Fly Free or Die AP.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of any iconic fantasy merchants from books or movies that would make a good adventurer. For sci-fi, Quark comes to mind.


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An archetype feels to be the better solution.

I mean, any class could be a marketing expert, sniff out good deals, bargain and craft good items.


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Agree that an archetype would fit best, I think. But if it had to be a class:

The more I think about it, it might be an Alchemist research field, though the Alchemist name would be a bit weird. It could be a weird combination of all other Alchemist research fields, but instead of recoverable Versatile Vials, they'd turn money directly into whatever they need: healing potions, bombs, and so on. Yes, it makes them way stronger than any specific research field in that they have access to all the goodies, but they wouldn't get the respective field benefits and discoveries, as well as the fact that they actually have to pay for it.

Octopath Traveler for the Switch has the Merchant class. IIRC they didn't do anything too unique, but they were good supporters. They could hire followers in town or use a combat skill to summon help, depending on how much money you throw at the problem. In Pathfinder terms, they might function as summons or minions, though them appearing from thin air might break believability a bit.

If you want to go that route, a Summoner subclass/reflavour would work. Obviously not with the extraplanar flavour, but a humanoid companion might be a decent solution. You could do like a Warrior/Mage/Healer thing, where the main class is a skill monkey (though less than a Rogue), and the follower essentially your subclass selection. Or if you want the Merchant to be a spellcaster, you can let your companion be of a different tradition (obviously following 2e's design on companions, not the Leadership problems of 1e/3.5).
I believe PF2 allows you to have multiple companions, right? And you can switch them out after some refocusing, yes? That'd be a cool niche that isn't occupied yet. Perhaps as you level up, you can have a larger retinue of followers (but still 1 out on the field at a time).

Other things Octopath does is giving allies extra actions (sort of covered by the Commander) or SP (essentially giving your party members your spell slots or focus points). Not sure exactly that is good design space, but I'm sure the designers could riff off that.

And, of course, the Octopath Merchant gains extra money. But a single-player computer game has to worry less about economy than a tabletop game, so I don't wanna mess with the economy directly. But maybe a mechanic where they could gather resources that fuel something else. Maybe a Versatile Vials-like thing, but more limited. Your first instinct would be a Charisma-based class, but I could see an Intelligence-based Merchant work as well. More the cunning, shrewd merchant who knows the value of their merchandise, rather than the haggling persuasive type. Like how Crafting fuels Inventors, Mercantile Lore could power up their abilities. Make an X amount of checks during combat to size up the enemy, then know where to strike, sort of like a combination of Rogue and Swashbuckler: "Oh, I see you bought your armour at Dave's Discount Warehouse. Terrible idea, really, they use inferior metal for chain mail," essentially giving them Clumsy as you expose literal holes in their armour, or everyone can poke said hole for minor additional damage. "And oh, you haven't been using my patented Sword Wax to keep your weapon in pristine shape! I can see the spots of rust from over here," leading to penalties on attack or damage. Basically, this would turn the Merchant into more of a saboteur class than a damage-dealer.


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JiCi wrote:

An archetype feels to be the better solution.

I mean, any class could be a marketing expert, sniff out good deals, bargain and craft good items.

How would that be different than having a character that takes the appropriate skills and skill feats? Cause currently you can represent all of that via skill and skill feats?

I suppose the archtype might grant you new skills, or scaling skills (like Acrobat Archetype) and give you archetype feats that either grant those skill feats or expand on them.

Actually I'm here for it, it could make an okay archetype. Not one I see myself ever using, but I could see someone taking it in a free archtype game to round out the idea of their character.

Horizon Hunters

Something else merchants would be good at is traveling. The Silk Road was active from the second century BCE until the mid-15th century, and was 400 miles long. On a daily basis the most common class of person traveling long distances back then would have been merchants.

This could be summed up in a feat or ability called well-traveled. You gain an additional language every 3 levels. At 6th level, you can use diplomacy to make an impression to change an NPCs attitude towards you, even if you don't speak their language.

Another feat, Well Connected at 4th level allows to find sources to buy uncommon items, at 8th level you have sources for rare items. This represents being able to get things normally available only in faraway places.

Ideas for companions or hirelings.

Pack animal to carry more supplies/merchindise/treasure

Hire a guard. In combat, you can only move, manipulate objects, use skills, cast spells, or take defensive actions. While your guard is next to you, they give you a +1 bonus to your AC, and if someone attacks you, your bodyguard can make a reactive strike against them. You can also choose to have your guard protect an object or a small area.


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Archetype ideas for unique feats and abilities. Maybe? I haven't given much thought to this:

-Daily preparation gives some number of extra 'free uses' of Prescient Planner and Prescient Consumable. Or maybe more potent uses.
-New ways to more rapidly improve Attitude conditions. Or maybe bonuses to those rolls if the archetype doesn't include increased proficiencies (but not both).
-Crafting: always considered to have formula and tools??? "I checked the warehouse and found some pieces in stock."
-Crafting: level bonus to what you can make (i.e. 1 higher than your level or something)
-Companions seem like a good fit (Horse, servant), so a feat improving that might be useful.
-Increased proficiency to Diplomacy, Society. Putting this last because it's not terribly unique, but I'm sure it's something people would value in an archetype.

I don't think it needs a class. Commander seems like a good thematic fit: you're going to be running your business and ordering your caravan guards around.


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D&D 2E's Dark Sun setting had a trader class. Basically a rogue with no backstab but lots of languages, skills, and a fast-talking ability.


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I think a merchant archetype shouldn't involve crafting.

Being a merchant (trader) is different from someone who crafts items. I think you shouldn't dilute the idea of the archetype by trying to do too much(although a dedicated crafting archetype is probably as valid as a merchant one).

I do like the idea of more uses of prescient planner/consumable or perhaps even upgraded version.

A companion like option for either a bodyguard or animal to carry goods sounds reasonable (animal companion should be straight forward) while bodyguard would probably lean on the new captain archetype, but limit you to only 1.

Scaling diplomacy, society, and mercantile lore up to master, and mercantile lore allowing you to identify and determine the value of any item that can be acquired via trade (so unique items wouldn't be valid).


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I think the archetype should have a feat to use hirelings better. Something like Hireling Manager but instead of a +2 its your KAS modifier or something.


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Easl wrote:
I don't think it needs a class. Commander seems like a good thematic fit: you're going to be running your business and ordering your caravan guards around.

PS to my own post and and public service announcement: it looks like Pathbuilder has Commander and Guardian now. Though they could've dropped a few days ago and I just now noticed...


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Agonarchy wrote:
D&D 2E's Dark Sun setting had a trader class. Basically a rogue with no backstab but lots of languages, skills, and a fast-talking ability.

They also picked up a pretty massive retinue of NPC followers who could fight for them in their higher levels!


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I just thought of an idea, a feat that grants you the ability to make a Spacious pouch function similar to the Smuggler's Sack.

The "Legitimate Merchant's" Pouch function as normal as spacious pouch of its type, but it has a mundane storage 1 bulk in addition to its extradimensional space. The extradimensional space can only be noticed by a perception check meeting your Merchant Class DC (which is equal to your base class DC). As a single action, you (and only you) can mentally command the bag to open the extradimensional space. By spending 1 additional action any item(s) inside the pouch you desire appears at your hand and can be removed (for 1 action per item) or the bag turned over and the item(s) can be poured next to you as a 3 action activity [other items don't fall out]. The opening of the bag when commanded in this way magically expands to accommodate any item within the bulk limit of the bag. You can fill the bag with any item under the bulk limit, the opening can magically expand to fit over it, with a minimum of 3 actions. Particularly large items may require you to walk around and tug the bag over it, requiring additional actions (GMs discretion). A creature that becomes aware of the extradimensional space cannot open it by any mundane means, but the use of a Knock spell or similar magic can be used to try to open it. Using knock on the extradimensional space functions as making a counteract check as though the extradimensional space was locked using the Lock spell, with the DC being your class DC.

With a 6 action activity requiring you to speak a command phrase, you can empty the entire contents of the extradimensional space from the pouch, ejecting all the contents randomly onto the Astral Plane. The items can be recovered, but would require luck and or magic to locate. The process is likely to scatter the contents wide across the Astral plane, and you're unlikely to find pieces together.

Horizon Hunters

Some ideas I had to give merchants more income and ways to spend it. Just ideas, the values in them have not been balanced.

Once per day, when you earn income from using the Mercantile Lore skill, you gain an expense account = to the value of the coins you received. You can only spend your expense account on merchant feats or abilities that have a coin cost to use, or require having an expense account. Your expense accounts last until your next earned income role. If you haven't used any of your expense account when you do your next income roll, you gain +2 to the roll. If you used all of your expense account, you get -1 to your roll. If you used a feat that caused you to lose your expense account, divide your income in half.

Feat: Price of Doing Business. Spend some gold or use some of your expense account before you reroll checks to improve Attitude conditions, or gather information. If you do improve the result by one category.

Feat: well-funded Perperations. Spend gold or silver from your expense account during daily perperations to gain extra uses of prescient planner/consumable. up to the value you spent.

Feat: Pay the Price. Your coins and consumables are destroyed or lost as they help reduce damage from a killing blow; you lose all coins, consumables, and your expense account. If you had coins to lose, you are stabilized; for each consumable lost, you gain 1 hp

Feat: My kingdom for a horse. ◆ You move up to half your move speed while dropping everything you are carrying, and you lose your expense account. Opponents are distracted by you dropping your valuables, losing their reactions against you. Then, you gain +5 to your move speed until the end of the turn. You must use all of your remaining actions to move as far away from your opponents as possible. Intelligent creatures must make a basic Will save or become fascinated with the items you dropped for 1 round. DC 10 + your level + the bulk you dropped.

Feat False Valor: ◆ Once per day, when you have coins in your expense account, you bravely defend your valuables when in combat, for up to 1 minute. You gain +1 to hit and +1 AC, and 5 temporary HP. If you run out of temp HP, you lose all benefits of False Valor for the day, and on your next turn, you must spend one action fleeing.


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I honestly don't think a merchant archetype should use GP as their power source in any way. Its needlesly complicated and makes it so players could feel forced to spend their money on using their features rather than using it to buy things. It goes against the design of the system IMO.


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If I was designing a merchant archetype, I'd go in a direction similar to Dandy. Merchants are fundamentally about sales at the end of the day, and sales is a social job.

Fantasy merchants also tend to be in charge of logistics and sourcing as well (more so than modern salespeople, where that would be different jobs), but building the connections to get good sources of goods and sign those deals is also a social job.

So this should really primarily be about being able to acquire connections, follow leads, and Diplomacy & Deception actions. Add in item appraisal (maybe a feat that grants Crafters Appraisal that uses Mercantile Lore) and you've got the core of an archetype.

Horizon Hunters

exequiel759 wrote:
I honestly don't think a merchant archetype should use GP as their power source in any way. Its needlesly complicated and makes it so players could feel forced to spend their money on using their features rather than using it to buy things. It goes against the design of the system IMO.

Which is why I came up with the expense account that is separate from your normal coins, it would be like any other class that has some kind of point pool for special abilities. Just change any of the ideas I had to only use the expense account. Although I think avoiding death might be worth losing some coins over, but might need some comeback mechanisms to recover from it long term. Maybe a Strike it Rich feat that is only usable after you have lost all of your expense account. Combined with the lose it all feats creates a rags-to-riches dynamic instead of always getting ahead. Maybe a Down on You Luck feat that helps when you have lost your expense account and have not recovered it yet.

This might work better in organized play, where you know you have downtime between every session. Some of the frequency of use time might need to be adjusted for longer adventures.


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I still think that subsystem is a bit convoluted for an archetype. Archetypes are usually pretty straigthforward in their mechanics, with the few that have "complicated" mechanics are those that borrow said mechanics from already existing classes (like the alchemist archetype or the multiple spellcasting archetypes). A merchant archetype IMO falls in the category of archetypes like the dandy (like Tridus said) or acrobat (like Claxon said). An archetype with a few cool and flavorful feats, a few archetype-only skill feats, all revolving around the use of one or a few skills.

That's why I think the archetype should probably revolve around the Prescient feat line and Bargain Hunter because those feats pretty much give you the baseline features you'll expect from a merchant in PF2e (much like how the herbalist focuses on Nature and Natural Medicine skill feat). It probably should have a skill feat that improves Bargain Hunter (a succed becomes a crit-succed, as I suggested earlier) and most of the actual class feats of the archetype should focus on making Prescient Consumable / Prescient Planner better in some way. It likely wouldn't go above 6th or 8th level in terms of feats, but I think that's fine since the concept is already viable without the archetype. I wouldn't mind being proven wrong, and I would gladly accept an archetype that's a bit more complicated as long as it works.


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Rather than an expense account of coins to track separate to normal wealth, you could handwave the coin and give Merchants a resource called "Value" or something that acts like versatile vials or any other free uses per day and represents the nebulous amount of Stuff(tm) the Merchant has on them at any given time for trading, but which they can use to pull out useful items at a moment's notice.

Archetypes have done similar things with giving characters custom resources, including alchemy archetypes giving versatile vials and the exorcist archetype giving a vessel which collects soul wisps to spend on archetype features


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Archetypes+ over on Pathfinder Infinite has a really fun Merchant archetype (featuring a Morshu reference in the art, of course - it's even in the preview text).

Wayfinders

exequiel759 wrote:
I still think that subsystem is a bit convoluted for an archetype.

I agree, I think my ideas for the expense account would be better for a class, but would need more things to work with it.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber
Claxon wrote:

I think a merchant archetype shouldn't involve crafting.

Being a merchant (trader) is different from someone who crafts items. I think you shouldn't dilute the idea of the archetype by trying to do too much(although a dedicated crafting archetype is probably as valid as a merchant one).

[...].

you could do it within the Archetype.

Use feats to flavour the archetype as either a
* caravan master
* trader
* tinker
* artisan
Say 4 or 5 feats for each option - gives heaps of flexibility and allows someone to go full merchant (invest in 2 or 3 options), lean into one, or just flavour their base class.
Earn an income could be based on logistics (survival, nature), arbitrage (society, diplomacy, deception), repairing items (crafting, thievery?), or solid crafting (crafting, speciality crafting)


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Some additional ideas I had:
Polyglot - A Merchant must communicate to be able to trade. This class feat grants you the Multilingual general feat. In addition, by spending a week immersed in a society/culture you can develop the ability to rudimentarily communicate in that society's common language. This gives you the ability to make trades and understand speakers of this language and make yourself understood at a very basic level, but more complex ideas and discussion are beyond your capability. This is a temporary knowledge though, and if you are not immersed in the culture for a week, you will forget the language. You can only have 1 temporary language at a time. If you immerse yourself in a new culture/society you can immediately forget an existing temporary language to start gaining a new one.

If you are an Expert in Society the time to reach rudimentary communication level is reduced to 3 days. If you are a master it takes only 1 day. If you are legendary it takes 1 hour.

If you are legendary in society, you can forget a known language and turn a temporary language into a known language. Over the course of a week you forget the old and master the new. When the process is complete you are fluent in the language as though you were a native speaker.

The Right Fit - A merchant can magically adjust their clothing. You gain Illusory Disguise as a focus spell, but can only adjust clothing (for you or other targets when heightened). If you Gather Information for at least 1 hour and make a successful society check (DC ?) before disguising your clothes, you determine what kind of outfit would benefit you. A successful check can give a +2 to mercantile (or diplomacy or other skills as appropriate) to make a trade deal or negotiate. At a GMs discretion, when proper clothing could influence those around you, it may grant a +2 bonus to any interaction with those individuals.


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Preservative Pouch - Your Legitimate Merchants pouch preserves any items placed inside and stops them from decaying or over ripening.

Everyone's Friend - You can cast Charm as a focus spell, but it loses the manipulate trait. Instead of gesturing to create the magic, you speak honeyed words to your target (this differs from how subtle trait normally functions), weaving ingratiating words into the magic. It still lacks other manifestations that would normally give away the magic. On a successful save or critical success, the target of the spell is only aware that you were unduly trying to ingratiate yourself and influence them, but not that you attempted magic to do so. But it still rubs them the wrong way and reduces their disposition to you by 1 step (typically from indifferent to unfriendly).

Horizon Hunters

Claxon wrote:

Preservative Pouch - Your Legitimate Merchants pouch preserves any items placed inside and stops them from decaying or over ripening.

Everyone's Friend - You can cast Charm as a focus spell, but it loses the manipulate trait. Instead of gesturing to create the magic, you speak honeyed words to your target (this differs from how subtle trait normally functions), weaving ingratiating words into the magic. It still lacks other manifestations that would normally give away the magic. On a successful save or critical success, the target of the spell is only aware that you were unduly trying to ingratiate yourself and influence them, but not that you attempted magic to do so. But it still rubs them the wrong way and reduces their disposition to you by 1 step (typically from indifferent to unfriendly).

There are lots of good spells that work well for merchants. Just having access to a full set of cantrips at first level makes for a good merchant, but hard to do without being a spellcaster. So, abilities that grant spells like you suggested would help a lot

I took Illusory Disguise, so I could check out the prices at other shops without them noticing.

I use bullhorn to announce sales.

Approximate to take inventory.

Time sense to know when it's the best time of day to sell things.

Alarm to protect my shop at night.

Mending to fix junk to sell.

Infectious enthusiasm to help others when making trade deals.

Detect magic because magic items are worth more.

After 1st level I took Draw Ire. It's one of the few combat spells I could role-play with a social twist to it. I always cast it along with a goblin insult that would draw ire on its own. It's also a good way to help the rest of the party, while giving me a good reason to run away from melee combat.

Charm looks like a good choice to.


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Caravan - You gain access to the Mystic Carriage Ritual. It summons a carriage as per the spell, but if you are an expert in Mercantile lore it summons 2 carriages with a chosen location of up to 500 miles away, master 3 carriages 1000 miles, and legendary 4 carriage and anywhere on the same plane (reachable via land transport). All carriages will follow one another, but otherwise function the same. The carriages duration can be extended beyond the normal by repeating the ritual (including while riding in the carriage). The carriages appear to be drawn by normal horses, but cannot be disconnected, and do not eat or sleep.

Caravan of the Water and Sky - Requires Caravan. I need to spend more time on how this will work, but the idea is you upgrade you caravan to turn into magically propelled sailing ship(s) and then can upgrade even further by letting those ships magically fly (at legendary skill level).

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