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Ok, I'm a bit obsessed lately with the upcoming Animist class. I've been trying to gather every bit of information I can about the class after making multiple Playtest characters. However, as we get closer to release, I'm chomping at the bits.
So, I thought I'd start a thread for those like me. What are you excited about, what kind of characters do you have in mind, what theories do you have for the Animist that haven't been revealed, etc.?
I'll start with an, admittedly out there, theory. We know that 2 of 4 practices have been teased, the Seer and Medium. The Medium is pretty straight forward I think. However the Seer was pretty vague, saying that they can find apparitions that other Animists don't. Crazy theory:
The Seer is a sort of build-your-own-apparitiin practice. Since they find ones others simply don't, that is code for being able to create thematic and unuique apparitions. In practice this could be choosing options from a laid out template.
Anyway, help me feed my Animist addiction for all things Animist in this thread.
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I'm interested with the class but I'll wait until I actually see the final class before i start theory crafting characters.
Outside of the playtest I don't think we don't know much about the class. In any case it's very likely we'll start seeing more posts about how the class itself works in a few weeks since the book is going to release next month, and before that we are going to see all the PFtubers doing previews on their channels.
Excited to see some Arcadian characters enabled by the class.
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While I'll wait until the official release to do the crafting, for others, I can think of a few starting places:
1) It wouldn't be too hard to reflavor Erasmus (the Iconic Medium from PF1e) as an Animist, calling upon the powers of his murder family members for support instead of more fleeting spirits. In fact, isn't one of the Animist's practices called Medium? Because if it is, it would confirm my theory that Animist is the result of combining the Medium and Shaman classes and then refining the resulting mash up...
2) Just about any character from Shaman King (expect for Faust and Jun, they're both closer to Summoners than Animists).
3) Kamen Riders Den-O and Ghost (Ghost being more thematic, while Den-O is more to the mechanics... although both are more martial than caster).
4) While people tend to think Kineticist when they hear Avatar TLA here, I think the Avatar themselves is more like a Kineticist that took multiclass Animist (probably).
5) Shazam! (the superhero, not the genie).
Shazam! (the superhero, not the genie).
Music Lore is an obligatory pick.
Well, I'll wait for the final product, personally I have zero hype for the animist and no expectations of being able to play with a exemplar, (unless it's possible to use the mechanics without any hint of "I'm a demigod"), curious, but not eager. The rest of the book arouses my greater interest.
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I'm less into the theory crafting for builds, and more interested in guessing mechanics before the big reveal in a few weeks. We know there are 4 practices and we know what 2 of them are. I'm going to guess.
Medium: only get to choose one primary and one secondary Apparition a day and cant change them out. You get to let the primary possess you to give special abilities in the form of an extra vessel focus spell, resistances, and perhaps proficiencies (thinking the battle vessel spells turns into a specific possession)
Seer: they are said to be able to find apparitions others can't. Could this be code for a sort of build your own apparition based on template guidelines? I don't know, but would be awesome.
Channeler: similar to the playtest and can cycle through apparitions via a single action. May even get an extra apparition a day.
Avatar: one playtest idea that circulated a lot was giving the special Avatar forms more importance. Scaling them so they are usable through the full career. So perhaps this could be a practice that allows you to take the Avatar form for some of your apparitions. Though, as I type this I wonder if that is too close to the Medium idea in practical mechanics.
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Honestly, the Medium was such a cool class in PF1. I'm glad it has expanded to include, well, Animism. The play test included mostly nature themed spirits with a few (maybe one?) occult themed one. I hope we have a lot more occult options.
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Honestly, the Medium was such a cool class in PF1. I'm glad it has expanded to include, well, Animism. The play test included mostly nature themed spirits with a few (maybe one?) occult themed one. I hope we have a lot more occult options.
About halfway through the playtest they posted a blog that added another non-nature themed apparition.
Reveler In Lost Glee - basically they are the embodiment of the creepy clown. I love their Avatar name "Ringmaster of the Dark Celebration"
This is probably one of my favorite apparitions
Honestly, the Medium was such a cool class in PF1. I'm glad it has expanded to include, well, Animism. The play test included mostly nature themed spirits with a few (maybe one?) occult themed one. I hope we have a lot more occult options.About halfway through the playtest they posted a blog that added another non-nature themed apparition.
Reveler In Lost Glee - basically they are the embodiment of the creepy clown. I love their Avatar name "Ringmaster of the Dark Celebration"
This is probably one of my favorite apparitions
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My confirmation email just came, won't be long now before the Animist secrets are revealed and we see how much of the speculation is true.Its good to know subscribers are getting them! I was slightly confused we hadn't seen a AMA on reddit or something by now since Wednesday was the first day people might get their PDF. I guess this time around its just the luck of the draw for the overlap of who got it/who is willing to post an AMA.
They pushed back the release date from the 23rd to the 30th, so no subscribers have them yet. The absolute earliest a subscriber can get their PDF is the 15th (next Tuesday) assuming there are no first day shipping delays. Expect to see them popping up mid to late week next week.
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I'm hoping they will at least keep the avatar thing and the divine spell list.
They've confirmed the divine spell list so you're good there. As for Avatar piece, I just hope they scaled it to be useful the entire career. It felt very weird to devote so much page space for a feature only available at level 19 and by then it isn't really useful
I love the idea, but the execution wasn't great.
Since this is a theory thread, my theory os they heard this feedback enough and will change. Though I believe it will not longer be a key feature, but will be part of one of the Practices (sub classes)
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Its more about being able to use avatar without a god, I hope they keep it at least that feature.I'm hoping they will at least keep the avatar thing and the divine spell list.They've confirmed the divine spell list so you're good there. As for Avatar piece, I just hope they scaled it to be useful the entire career. It felt very weird to devote so much page space for a feature only available at level 19 and by then it isn't really useful
I love the idea, but the execution wasn't great.
Since this is a theory thread, my theory os they heard this feedback enough and will change. Though I believe it will not longer be a key feature, but will be part of one of the Practices (sub classes)
Since the concept for the Animist is being the equivalent of the Cleric for religions based on spirits rather than a deity, I would be extremely surprised and disappointed if they don't keep Avatar.
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Since the concept for the Animist is being the equivalent of the Cleric for religions based on spirits rather than a deity, I would be extremely surprised and disappointed if they don't keep Avatar.Its more about being able to use avatar without a god, I hope they keep it at least that feature.I'm hoping they will at least keep the avatar thing and the divine spell list.They've confirmed the divine spell list so you're good there. As for Avatar piece, I just hope they scaled it to be useful the entire career. It felt very weird to devote so much page space for a feature only available at level 19 and by then it isn't really useful
I love the idea, but the execution wasn't great.
Since this is a theory thread, my theory os they heard this feedback enough and will change. Though I believe it will not longer be a key feature, but will be part of one of the Practices (sub classes)
I agree, I just hope it is more than just the Avatar spell reflavored like the playtest. They devoted a lot of page space for something that only came online at level 19. If they scale it throughout the levels it could be awesome in practice as well as flavor.
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I would argue the reason it seems like a lot is because Dieties avatar form are listed with the deities and not the cleric class page. I don't think it's actually taken up all that space. Would it be cool, sure I guess but I'm not sure it's really needed.
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I would argue the reason it seems like a lot is because Dieties avatar form are listed with the deities and not the cleric class page. I don't think it's actually taken up all that space. Would it be cool, sure I guess but I'm not sure it's really needed.
That's a fair outlook, but it is undeniably a lot of space on the page (a page you'll look at a lot through every level).
I did some counting and math of the mechanical Apparition text, the Avatar dedicated portion makes up 42.8% of the word count.
If that holds to, let's say, 12 apparitions in the finished product, that's ~470 words total. Considering the average words per page is 250 words, that's around 2 full pages (maybe more depending on artwork placement).
So, thats 2-3 pages worth of mechanical text for a feature exclusive to lvl 19-20 Animist. That seems a lot when Devs and writers both have remarked many times in the past about word count limitations being why something didn't make it into a book. Especially considering the extremely small portion of players who will ever get to use it.
All that said, I can't wait to see what they do with it. Something more widely available, but kept in spirit (pun intended) would be great.
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Got my PDF!!!
One of the first things I noticed, they fixed the issue with standing still and just sustaining 3 instances of Earth's Bile. They even call that one out by name.
"...an animist can’t cast or Sustain a specific vessel spell in the same round they have already cast or Sustained it (for example, an animist who has cast earth’s bile during their turn can’t then cast or Sustain another
instance of earth’s bile during that same turn)."
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Unfortunately also noticing some nerfs to apparition vessel spells.
Darkened Forest Form no longer gives a +1 to your attack roles
Discomfiting Whispers now allows a Will save
Garden of Healing, once it stops being sustained, cannot heal people again for 10 minutes
Embodiment of Battle no longer grants critical specialization
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Just curious, what are all the practices for the Animist?
Also, what does the Seer do? I’m assuming Channeler made it back in, Medium was spoiled, and I saw your post about Shaman (I think that might be my new Witch replacement). Sage got cut for the new Shaman subclass?
Thanks!
Basically, each one gives a free lvl 1 feat and then build on that at lvl 9 and again at lvl 17. Liturgist is my favorite and seems to be the most mechanically powerful, but the 9th level feature of Medium seems powerful too. Overall, I'm not sure how I feel about them yet, still need to digest it a bit.
Liturgist - Circle of Spirits feat (the 1 action switch primary spirit) - 9th lets you leap, step, or tumble through to sustain (sustaining dance feat was removed) - 17th free action Circle of Spirits as a free action at initiative and lets you cast a non-cantrip spell with 1 less action
Medium - Relinquish Control (protects against control effects and gives bonus to recall knowledge) - 9th Can select two attuned apparitions as your primary - 17th free recall knowledge per round, more damage on strikes, resistance to physical damage, but weakness to spirit damage
Seer - Apparition Sense and a +1 bonus to saves and ac vs. haunts, spirits, and incorporeal undead - 9th resistance to spirit damage and bigger bonus to AC and saves for haunts/spirits/incorporeal - 17th bigger bonus to AC and saves...
Shaman - Spirit Familiar (one of your spirits is a familiar...but don't let it die) and it becomes an Enhanced familiar at lvl 2 - 9th it becomes an Incredible Familiar - 17th Familiar can become incorporeal, but still needs line of affect and must stay within 60 feet, so still unlikely to be able to go through walls unless there is a peep hole or something
I remember during the playtest people asked for a familiar option, you now have one in the form of either a feat, or the Shaman practice.
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Thanks for sharing!
Liturgist looks like it’s the old Channeler, but more identifiable. I think it’s definitely the strongest for flexible vessel spells.
Medium looks strong too if you know what 2 vessel spells you want to use at all times.
Seer looks like the old Sage, so I don’t think it looks great.
Shaman sounds interesting, but it doesn’t seem any more interesting than if you just grab Familiar Master.
I’m guessing the actual feats will be the most important part, but Liturgist/Medium look like the winners (and what we really wanted from Channeler and Sage). Seer and Shaman look really boring. A bit relieved though. Was worried that the Shaman might outclass the Witch, but the Witch seems to retain its position as the ultimate familiar caster.
Maybe there are some new specific familiars? (And how does Shaman even work with specific familiars?)
Thanks for sharing!
Completely agree, I was hoping the Shaman would go in a different direction, but I'm happy enough with the Liturgist and Medium to not care that much.
As to specific familiar interaction. There doesn't seem to be any restriction. Considering they get up to Incredible Familiar level, it seems like they are made for them.
As to why to choose Shaman over Familiar Master. Well, Shaman gets all that stuff built in without having to take feats. Additionally, it seems to stack well with Familiar Master if you really want to go all in. The downside though, is your primary apparition IS the familiar, so if it dies, you lose a lot until you get it back the next day.
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The downside though, is your primary apparition IS the familiar, so if it dies, you lose a lot until you get it back the next day.There’s nothing in Shaman practice that actually requires/incentivizes your familiar to be in combat?
Coz if not: Absorb Familiar (and Familiar Satchel) exists! Checkmate Paizo!
I mean, yeah. It is a normal familiar so use it for normal familiar things. Most GMs will even rule they are out of combat if tucked away and don't target them unless you do something to make them viable target in combat, though the Familiar Satchel and Absorb Familiar are also great.
I was just pointing out that it is extra dangerous for them to be in combat, in case anybody was thinking of a witch style of play.
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Familiars aren’t bad for caster/non-combat utility, so you’re right, it’s still a great option for all of those benefits. thanks for clearing up Shaman for me!
Though, is there really no salvation for the Seer? It has to have a good feat somewhere, right? (Right…?)
Again, thank you for indulging us on this! Fantastic stuff.
Seer...well...if your playing in an undead heavy campaign that likes to use incorporeal or haunts, then it can be great. You also get Spirit and Void resistances at 9th. Still not worth it to me, but it's something I guess.
As for feats, they aren't limited by practice. Some have restrictions based on Apparition choice, but none that I've seen that restrict based on Practice.
Can I get some details on some of the new apparitions? Specifically the Crafter in the Vault, Echo of Lost Moments and the Monarch of the Fey Courts?
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is seneschal uncommon or common?
Neither, it's rare.
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As for feats, they aren't limited by practice. Some have restrictions based on Apparition choice, but none that I've seen that restrict based on Practice.So, how does Animist changing primary spirit work? In the playtest, the Animist could spend 10 min to change their primary attuned spirit. Can the Medium still do that? What happens to a Shaman’s familiar if they change their primary attuned spirit?
If Circle of Spirits is a feat and not a unique Liturgist power, what happens if a Medium/Shaman picks up the feat?
I’m certain the answers are obvious for anyone with the book, but it’s definitely gotten my brain thinking about the class, lol.
Apparition Attunement: you attune at the daily preparations. Then when you refocus, you can change your primary Apparition if you want. All Animists can do this.
Mediums (or any that take Relinquish Control feat) must choose one Apparition and that Apparition must be one of them you attuned to daily.
The Shaman’s familiar doesn't have to be the primary Apparition. So, changing your primary does nothing to the familiar.
If a Medium/Shaman pick up Circle of Spirits...they can use it. Neither the Shaman or Medium cares which Apparition is primary.
I play tested with Vanguard of Roaring Waters and really, really wanted it to be good, but it was very difficult to get your focus spell working effectively. Did anything change with it from the playtest? Or maybe easier: Does it look like a decent apparition to you? Or is it going to remain incredibly niche for water based adventures only?
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I play tested with Vanguard of Roaring Waters and really, really wanted it to be good, but it was very difficult to get your focus spell working effectively. Did anything change with it from the playtest? Or maybe easier: Does it look like a decent apparition to you? Or is it going to remain incredibly niche for water based adventures only?
I don't remember the details of the playtest and don't have it in front of me.
That said, the vessel spell is, ok. Defensive by providing constant lesser cover and gives +10 to movement speed is nice. The difficult terrain trailing you could be useful in certain situations. The Apparition spell list is pretty good though.
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I play tested with Vanguard of Roaring Waters and really, really wanted it to be good, but it was very difficult to get your focus spell working effectively. Did anything change with it from the playtest? Or maybe easier: Does it look like a decent apparition to you? Or is it going to remain incredibly niche for water based adventures only?
They increased the movement bonus to +10 ft and you get to stride as part of the action to cast or sustain, so I'd say it's MUCH more usable now.
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2 big complaints I have so far are the following:
The Medium is described as not growing attachments to particular apparitions but then is given a feat that forces you to always attune to a particular spirit. Not mechanically flawed but may confuse players.
The Echo in Lost Moment's vessel spell gives you an extra reaction specifically for Animist or apparition reactions but hardly any exist and the majority that do are limited to once per 10 minutes. As far as I can tell, it's a vessel spell that will be largely ignored by most Animist players unless an errata/change is made.