Perhaps they lean into the "parent or" meaning of guardian? We get a feat that gives us a minion small child?
Eh, I mean, they said in the announcement the class is going to be a tank class with a taunt, so they clearly won't have a minion (as a default at least). I also don't see them make a return of the Leadership rules of PF1e in the same book you have a class that's all about commanding stuff.
If anything, the commander is going to have the option to have a minion.
Design Manager
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Perhaps they lean into the "parent or" meaning of guardian? We get a feat that gives us a minion small child?Them: Pedro Pascal is not a class concept.
Me: Disagree.
That.... sounds like a confirmation to me.
Omfg I'm all for this.
I was just expressing my appreciation for the idea, lol
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I vote we cut out the middle man and give the people what they really want, the Pedro Pascal class, complete with class paths for The Mandalorian, Narcos, The Last of Us, and, of course, The Unbearable Weight of Massive Talent.
Don’t forget the Vampire College Student subclass (4th Season of Buffy).
Well too bad. We now want a subclass where this is a thing. Lol see the can of worms you opened?I was just expressing my appreciation for the idea, lolPerhaps they lean into the "parent or" meaning of guardian? We get a feat that gives us a minion small child?Them: Pedro Pascal is not a class concept.
Me: Disagree.
That.... sounds like a confirmation to me.
Omfg I'm all for this.
Perhaps a familiar?
(...) which version of the 4e taunt did you not like?
Enemies with 5' of you take -2 to their attack rolls against creatures other than you.
Or
When you attack an enemy they take -2 to their attack rolls against creatures other than you, until the start of your next turn.
Or
Select a creature within 60'. They take -2 to their attack rolls against creatures other than you. This last until you use this feature again. (...)
Personally I vouch for the 1st one (as a constant aura like ability), as it seems to me as the most simple and elegant way to incentivise you to bust into the frontlines.
I mean, I wouldn't mind a Leader archetype or a group of feats for either class to have your own cohort. Leadership was broken in PF1e but if you take the concept and make it balanced it can be fun. Put some anathema so people don't treat their cohorts as slaves and I think it would be fantastic.
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I hate familiars in pf2e though...Perhaps a familiar?Well too bad. We now want a subclass where this is a thing. Lol see the can of worms you opened?I was just expressing my appreciation for the idea, lolPerhaps they lean into the "parent or" meaning of guardian? We get a feat that gives us a minion small child?Them: Pedro Pascal is not a class concept.
Me: Disagree.
That.... sounds like a confirmation to me.
Omfg I'm all for this.
what if it was tiny and green, with long ears like a baby goblin, and could telekinetic move tiny things.
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I vote we cut out the middle man and give the people what they really want, the Pedro Pascal class, complete with class paths for The Mandalorian, Narcos, The Last of Us, and, of course, The Unbearable Weight of Massive Talent.Don’t forget the Vampire College Student subclass (4th Season of Buffy).
Also Maxwell Lord in Wonder Woman 1984...
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Perhaps they lean into the "parent or" meaning of guardian? We get a feat that gives us a minion small child?Them: Pedro Pascal is not a class concept.
Me: Disagree.
The 10th Mythic Destiny: the Daddy.
In all connotations.
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I wonder what a Guardian MC Champion will be like. And a Champion MC Guardian of course.
I'm guessing they will both have competing reactions.
So you get some variety, but not really any stronger.| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I have to mention.... small children have been proven to being very able to be very proficient at Taunting. Be it used against, other children, adults, other small cute animals, or dangerous beasts.
So don't discount taunting, by way of minions. ;)
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I was thinking that the Guardian might be the reverse of the Commander in that, where the Commander can spend actions to boost others, maybe the Guardian could be boosted by others spending actions. Like a low-level Guardian declares a single ward, gets some benefits when close to their ward and/or vice versa and their ward being able to spend actions/reactions to boost the Guardian and at higher level they can have several wards.
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I was thinking that the Guardian might be the reverse of the Commander in that, where the Commander can spend actions to boost others, maybe the Guardian could be boosted by others spending actions. Like a low-level Guardian declares a single ward, gets some benefits when close to their ward and/or vice versa and their ward being able to spend actions/reactions to boost the Guardian and at higher level they can have several wards.That's a cool idea, but I don't think it'd be what the Guardian does, chiefly because of the play patterns it encourages. "Cheerleading the fighter" is already a saying I'm seeing crop up, and a class that explicitly encouraged party members giving up their actions would further incentivize that playstyle ... and in a way that could easily lead to bad feelings at table. Now every action party members use on themselves are actions not helping the Guardian do their thing, so maybe they don't get to do the thing. Conversely, giving their actions to said Guardian means the rest of the party may not get to do their thing.
I think it'd work for a Pathfinder Infinite class, but I don't see it being one of Paizo's offerings.
I agree, though, I could easily envision abilities that provide X benefit for Y number of allies within Z ft. of the Guardian as a part of how a given ability to protect said allies might work.
I think speciation is more of an Evolutionist thing.That was my first thought too.
Anyway...
I'm just glad to see a defender type class that is decoupled from the divine.
I'm also just hoping that the taunt mechanics aren't too overbearing. There was an entire thread on that not too long ago. Some people really liked the 4e taunt. Many others, such as myself, really don't.
which version of the 4e taunt did you not like?
Enemies with 5' of you take -2 to their attack rolls against creatures other than you.
Or
When you attack an enemy they take -2 to their attack rolls against creatures other than you, until the start of your next turn.
Or
Select a creature within 60'. They take -2 to their attack rolls against creatures other than you. This last until you use this feature again.
I mean, if -2 is too much than it could be -1 instead.
Personally it isn’t the mechanics of taunt at all. It’s the flavor. Narratively, “taunting” someone to focus on you gets really old super quick. Being able to get nominally not-stupid foes to “forget everything and gnarr!!!! you” doesn’t feel verisimilitudinously satisfying *every combat*.
Now Pathfinder 2 has been accused by folk I know of being a little videogame like, and although I don’t see it that way there are a few places where *personally* I feel the rules actually block narrative agency.
For example - you can’t be stealthy (Stealth) while looking for tracks (Searching) and scouting for enemies (Scout). Which to my mind is exactly what you’d be doing. Because in Exploration mode, you can only choose one. So Exploration can, depending on the GM feel a bit like an abstracted cut-scene.
In a similar vein, while for me I might get sick of “apply taunt mechanic to foes” it might be argued that “taunting” isn’t verbal slander or insulting gesticulations but something else more integrally “game-mechanic-y” applicable to the Guardian that you can apply handwavium to and reflavor as you like. Magnetising aggression pheromones. An “I’m just so big you *need* to take me down” badge. Or some other heroic emanation akin to an Exemplar that makes any self-respecting warrior who wants free beers after the battle go out of their way to eat you. So I’ll be interested to see a) just what “taunting” means mechanically and how b) it is flavored in the class description.
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In PF1, I played a Spiritualist with six different spirits, one of whom was named Keystone. Keystone had a fun build, where their spirit abilities acted as a taunt and their feats were set up to fake casting curses. They had a very over-the-top design with Sauron vibes, and the taunt was flavored as faking the casting of a massive multi-round ritual. The rest of the party would act like they were running interference to protect the ritual to completion. I might see if something like that is possible with Guardian.
I want a Guardian of the Wild option.
Furs, skins, leathers.
=)
makes me wonder why there isn't a light armor specialization.
I guess you could just add one for the Guardian
Guardians Light Armor Master
When wearing light armor, you gain the specialization as if it was heavy armor.
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I want a Guardian of the Wild option.
Furs, skins, leathers.
=)
makes me wonder why there isn't a light armor specialization.
I guess you could just add one for the Guardian
Guardians Light Armor Master
When wearing light armor, you gain the specialization as if it was heavy armor.Probably because of medium armorr. Medium armor's advantage over light armor is that it has armor specialization, while light armor allows a character to worry much less about splitting their stats to achieve full armor bonus. If light armor also granted specialization, there'd be even less incentive to wear medium armor than there is now.
Granted, it's not a perfect system, the classes that grant armor specialization also grant proficiency in heavy armor, which has both advantages of light and medium armor, having specialization and also Bulwark on the heaviest armors, letting you mostly ignore your Dex.
As a plus to medium armor, it also allows you to focus on Strength and pretty much forget Dexterity exists as long as you have at least a +1 in it, which means a medium armor character is likely going to have better damage than a light armored one due to likely being Dex-based.
Medium armor is exactly what its name implies, the middle option between the slower tank with higher AC and the more nimble and mobile skirmisher. PF2e is pretty much the only system in which I would ever consider using medium armor because in most D&D-based systems medium armor usually has the worst of both light and heavy armor, while on PF2e they instead lack the best of them, which kinda sounds bad, but in practice it allows you to don't think much about it and play something more straight forward.
I’d like to see the Guardian be able to:
- Move better and gain greater bonuses from heavy armor with less penalties
- Move further than their speed toward a ward or designated protectee
- Be able to provide a zone of difficulty/protection via something akin to the Starfinder 2 Playtest Soldier’s suppressed/suppression mechanic, particularly with a reach melee weapon
- Provide a buff to adjacent or party group’s AC and saves
- Not be locked into any theme or flavor, particularly Golarion-conversant groups
- Not be dependant on taunt mechanics to function
I want a Guardian of the Wild option.
Furs, skins, leathers.
=)
makes me wonder why there isn't a light armor specialization.
I guess you could just add one for the Guardian
Guardians Light Armor Master
When wearing light armor, you gain the specialization as if it was heavy armor.Probably because of medium armorr. Medium armor's advantage over light armor is that it has armor specialization, while light armor allows a character to worry much less about splitting their stats to achieve full armor bonus. If light armor also granted specialization, there'd be even less incentive to wear medium armor than there is now.
Granted, it's not a perfect system, the classes that grant armor specialization also grant proficiency in heavy armor, which has both advantages of light and medium armor, having specialization and also Bulwark on the heaviest armors, letting you mostly ignore your Dex.As a plus to medium armor, it also allows you to focus on Strength and pretty much forget Dexterity exists as long as you have at least a +1 in it, which means a medium armor character is likely going to have better damage than a light armored one due to likely being Dex-based.
Medium armor is exactly what its name implies, the middle option between the slower tank with higher AC and the more nimble and mobile skirmisher. PF2e is pretty much the only system in which I would ever consider using medium armor because in most D&D-based systems medium armor usually has the worst of both light and heavy armor, while on PF2e they instead lack the best of them, which kinda sounds bad, but in practice it allows you to don't think much about it and play something more straight forward.
In 1E I always preferred Medium Armor over Heavy or Light. I felt that Breastplate was the best type of armor in that system.
In PF1e your Strength modifier didn't reduce speed penalties, that plus medium and heavy armor had exactly the same speed penalties for some reason, so why bother with medium armor when heavy armor exists? Not having proficiency wasn't even a problem since if you reduce the armor penalties to 0 you didn't suffer from the penalties of not being proficient in it, so mythril full plates were literal fair game for everyone (in particular celestial armor I think were really broken). Dexterity was difficult to build around but it was by far one of the best builds you could have because, in regards to this discussion, were light armored or unarmored and had high AC, high Reflex, high damage if you two-handed a finesse weapon, and high skill modifiers in a ton of skills.
Intercept seems decent. Take the hit and get some resistance.
Taunt is bad. Especially the AoE penalty.
You spend an action to take a penalty, and does nothing to protect the ally your standing next to.
Perhaps they lean into the "parent or" meaning of guardian? We get a feat that gives us a minion small child?Brilliant insight! I think you've cracked the code. The guardian is the reverse Summoner class we've been pining for. Instead of a caster with a powerful combat pet, it's a warrior with a vulnerable ally that it has to use its superior defensive abilities to protect. The minion is the source of its nigh-supernatural protective leaps, and otherwise buffs the guardian and their allies' morale. The guardian's Ward doesn't have to be a literal child but may be any endearingly cute and harmless creature.
Can we get a reverse Guardian dedication in that case, where anyone who is already Small can train to become Smol?