Abderrahmane Zagora

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IMO, if they wanted the aura to have an effect on Stealth, they would of said it.

I mean, someone isn't going to automatically spot you just because it got a little dusty.

Be suspicious? Sure. It wouldn't be crazy if they started making Seek checks.

So something like...

Fire Kineticist moved within 10'.
Guard 1: do you smell smoke?
Guard 2: yea, where is i coming from?


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YuriP wrote:


The basic aura is not really invisible it gives some minor notable effects and usually is defined by you:

Clear as Air specifically conceals your aura.

But, IMO, not something like Desert Wind or Thermal Nimbus. Which will give away your location.

At least that's how I'd rule it.


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Easl wrote:

As a player, I find Clear as Air's discussion frustratingly unhelpful. If you activate your kinetic aura, the impulse conceals its elements,

though any special effects of your aura might give away your location. So the intent really seems to be to let Air kineticists have the invisibility on while aura is up, without nerfing the invisibility. But then you get to the "though..." and it seems to contradict what it just said. The aura doesn't give you away, but the aura's effects can? How is that any different from 'the aura gives you away?' Who decides what special effects your aura has - the GM, or the player? Game text intended perhaps to stop disagreement just shifted it to a different disagreement.

I read that as your basic aura is invisible.

A "special effect" would be Desert Winds, which has "Each creature inside your kinetic aura", and would make it pretty obvious where the center of it is.

So you can't just hide with Thermal Nimbus running and expect enemies to just die without finding you.


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Gaulin wrote:


Reading sea glass guardians, I think it will only heal allies? From the book;

Eerily beautiful elemental water beings race around you, eager to protect and heal you and your allies. Their forms vary and might include eels formed of undulating water or ice crystals whirling in the shape of a jellyfish. The
guardians flow around combatants and don’t occupy a space. They attempt to intercept all dangers, granting you and your allies within your kinetic aura a +1 status bonus to AC and saving throws. If any creature affected is critically hit or critically fails at a saving throw against an attack, effect from an enemy, or hazard and remains above 0 HP, the guardians reach out to heal that creature. The creature regains 4d8+8 Hit Points, and the impulse ends. If the creature is in water, the healing dice are d10s instead of d8s.

you're right.

"Any creature affected", which is just your allies.


Burntgerb wrote:
arcady wrote:


But this costs an action to declare who's effected.
I don't see how it does. I've re-read Safe Elements three times - and I'm sure I'm missing something - but as long as you're not using Pacifying Infusion, I don't see any additional action requirement to designate targets safe.

you declare your allies when you use Channel Elements. That makes them safe from Winter Sleet.

But you need to spend the action to make Tidal Hands safe for them.

Also, all the Aura's, except water, already gave ally or enemy.

Safe Elements with a water Aura is a bit of a trap. As you want to declare your enemy to not get fire resistant, but then also exclude them from Winters Grasp.

You really want it with Sea Glass Guardian though. That will heal any creature.


Quote:
Yes. If you give up powerful stances, you can spam 2 action overflow impulses. Not sure it is better, but you can do it.

This is why I don't think Winter Sleet is overpowered.

Still on the stronger side. But any overflow and you need another action to bring it back up. Missing out on an extra Blast.

It's almost half a Sustain.

Burntgerb wrote:
arcady wrote:

If you're not built around stances then it becomes a lesser issue.

I can reliably spam an overflow and a blast on the same turn most turns. Sacrificing that only if I need movement.

If I add in 'safe elements'...

But is that how it works? To me, it only looks like Safe Elements only requires an action for the Pacifying Infusion part of the feat.

The first half just reads like you get to exclude people for no action - or as part of the qualifying action.

correct.

Stances and Junction Auras are safe for your allies (up to Con mod), no action needed.

"In addition, you gain the Pacifying Infusion action." So you need an action is for all other impulses.

Note it doesn't say "next action this turn", just "next action". So it can work with Solar Detonation if you use it your turn before. Though most likely on 2 action options.


Sanityfaerie wrote:
Mellored wrote:
Scrap Barricade, 3 action overflow, and thus stops Thermal Nimbus/aura.

Scrap Barricade is actually a great opener, though. Your first turn, you will have aura but no stance. Fire off Scrap Barricade as a way to split/channel/delay some of the foe, with possible bonus damage if they decide to take it down by beating on it. Next action, recover aura and get your stance up, without spending more actions than the stance would have cost you anyway. Now, it's not going to work if you have a party full of hotheads who like to charge, or if you yourself are not into the battlefield terrain manipulation game, but it's definitely a use case.

I'd honestly feel pretty torn between them. It would wind up being party/campaign dependent.

I agree scrap Barricade has uses. Though I much rather have Jagged Berms, which doesn't require sustaining and can be placed more flexibly. Even if it's size doesn't scale.

Or even wooden palisades, which is a little higher and doesn't break all at once.

All 3 have the same defense.

But your opener could also be Molten Wire + Thermal Nimbus. And they take lots of damage at the stat of their turn. Flying flame and a EB on turn 2. And they will probably die at the start of their next turn.

Overflows in general don't work as well with stances. Especially 3 action overflows and stances that work on enemy turns.


YuriP wrote:


I was putting together a conceptual build here to discuss this. But halfway through the process I remembered that I don't like the fire and metal build, honestly it's a build that I don't think goes well together. So I gave up arguing :P

Can't say I'm a big fan of metal either.

Too much about being rusted and breaking. Your armor breaks, the wall breaks, shields shatter..

Could of been better if they gave you proficiency in heavy metal armor, and let you make attacks with metal weapons using your impulse attack.

Plus stuff like Iron Shackles, Ball Bearing / Caltrops zones, and I can't believe they didn't do an Iron Maiden impulse.

Themed more around binding chains and such would of been a lot cooler IMO.


YuriP wrote:

It's not a bad impulse but honestly IMO there's better options for fire/metal impulses even for single target.

Maybe it can be useful if you plan to use your 3rd-action to Rise a Shield or move but if your plan is to blast it doesn't worth.

Assuming metal/fire

1: Weapon Infusion, Flying Flame, and Metal Carapace, using the shield block.
2: Extended Kinesis for out of combat utility. Generate and shape metal for all sorts of stuff.
4: Thermal Nimbus, avoiding any overflows.
5: Fire Weakness Aura, maybe Plate in Treasure.

Then the other level 6 metal/fire options are...

Crawling Fire, which is terrible.

Consume Power, which is decent.

Scrap Barricade, 3 action overflow, and thus stops Thermal Nimbus/aura.

Volcanic Escape, overflow that stops Thermal Nimbus/aura.

So it's a toss up between Consume Power and Molten Wire. Depending if you want defense or damage.

And level 9 the metal aura is a situational accuracy boost to Molten Wire too.


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YuriP wrote:


No because you are not required to Escape.

It's pretty common that a creature that want to move or cast want to Escape from a Grabbed condition but it isn't mandatory specially for creatures that don't cast and don't care to attack the creature that is grabbing it.

Molten Wire is in a pretty worse situation. Instead of suffer from a Grabbed condition It's just a "persistent" (due the lack of a better term) damage that's easily ignorable specially for creatures with a high reflex and Clumsy 1 tha's off-corse is bad but usually not so bad to worth a MAP. As GM unless for some specific lore situations, I probably just ignore it an only make a creature try to Escape if the creature has any actions left.

Again. Ignoring it for even 1 round (and not dying) means you delt more damage than other 2 action impulse. Especially of you have the weakness aura.

Unlike other "persistent" damage, you don't get to save out of it without spending an action to Escape, which is MAP (even without an attack roll).

Is it niche? Yes. You only want to use on a target that won't die immediately. Not something to spam it on every turn.

But it's better than Crawling Flame.


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SuperBidi wrote:
Deriven Firelion wrote:
I don't know if Negate Damage once a round is a good as immunity to precision damage and critical hits.

They are different, definitely. The main issue of Rebirth in Living Stone is that it's a Stance and Kineticist's Stances are so good that it feels pale in comparison.

Deriven Firelion wrote:
What do you think of an Earth Kineticist that dumps Dexterity for Armor in Earth and focus heavily on being a martial type of kineticist using punching in melee for their strength bonus while using Rebirth in Living Stone or Assume Earth's Mantle?

I haven't looked at Earth Kineticist in detail, so I won't have a proper answer. I do think you can build an extremely tanky Kineticist (you can add Deflecting Wave to your build as it seems you don't use your Reaction if you want to reach near invulnerability).

But my gripe against the Kineticist is not how tanky it is, but how unimpactful it is if you don't grab the broken abilities. So if you use anything like Pyrokinesis or Winter Sleet, you should attract enough attention. Or Timber Sentinel, to protect your allies. But if you don't use any of these abilities, I fear that your super tanky Kineticist just get ignored by enemies who will focus on your more effective allies.

Stone aura makes difficult terrain when moving away from you.

It's a softer taunt, but more than nothing.

Combine with Ravel of Thorns' -10' movement penalty and they won't get far. That's your stance though.

Also, Tremor is one of the few Fortitude attacks. Most are Reflex. Being able to target both is an indirect damage boost.

Saying Kineticist are bad if you don't use the powerful abilities is like saying wizard are bad if you don't use the powerful spells.


Deriven Firelion wrote:
Molten Wire doesn't have the attack action, but the text says to make an impulse attack roll. So all abilities of a kineticist operate like spells and the MAP description says spell attack rolls increase MAP. So wouldn't impulse attack rolls be like spell attack rolls and increase MAP?

https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=322

"The second time you use an attack action during your turn...".

Not the second time you make an attack roll. The attack action.

Escape takes an action. If they do that, then you basically have a stun 1, plus their MAP.

And I'm not saying Molten Wire is a top pick, especially if you have Synesthesia.

But since you have plenty of other multi-target spells. A single target debuff for a boss isn't a terrible choice.

I wouldn't complain if it got a buff though.


Deriven Firelion wrote:

No, it doesn't require that. They can attack and move just fine with Molten Wire on. The fire damage is so weak as they can ignore it.

The DM just let the creature keep fighting with Molten Wire on because of the weak damage. It does 4d4 (4d6 with impulse junction) fire damage at level 11 with a Basic Reflex save. It doesn't slow the creature down at all. No minus to hit unless a dex creature.

You are better off hitting it with a blast or something that does more damage. It causes MAP.

It's not a good ability.

molten wire does not cause MAP. You can use it and get +1 to hit on a blast.

Might not be intentional, but it's missing the Attack tag.

Comparing to another 2 action non-overflow

Flying flame at level 11 does 6d6 = 21
Molten wire at level 11 does 3d6+3d4 = 18 +7.5 per round.

So if they ignored it for even a single round and it will deal 20% more damage.
Ignore it for 2 rounds and it's the most damaging move you can do.
Add in the weakness aura or an ally attacking AC and that gap grows.

Or you can miss.


Easl wrote:
SuperBidi wrote:
You consider hitting on an 11, actually a 12 as you ignored crits. You chose the lowest damage of Fire and Air and no Str to damage.

Okay, here's what I get for .50 chance to miss on first strike, .05 chance to crit, d8 damage per your request, factoring double damage crits. Average dpr is...

2a: 7.15 vs. 2x1a 7.875. Less than a point.

You want to add in strength? Sure. For Str 4, it's...
2a 9.35 vs. 2x1a 11.05.

Are you telling me you consider an extra 1.5 dpr at level 5 "blows it away"?

Personally, for me, this situation fits the label "it's not the average (that matters) but the distribution" to a T. When I want a 2a distribution, I'm going to pick that. When I want a 2x1a distribution, I'm going to pick that. Because the difference in average is pretty trivial.

Probably most direct comparisons would be a fire attack.

Since you can include the Junction boost.


SuperBidi wrote:

Well, it's not just about the space but about beginners who don't know that it's overall much worse than any other damage options.

Also, other 2-action Impulses get the Impulse Junction on top of dealing much higher damage (even if the enemy has high save as they do half damage on a success).

I find it useless complexity. They should have found something more useful than that or just saved us some trouble trying to find a (super niche) usage to it.
But it's not the only piece of design space that I find too specific to be printed. Arcane Cascade and Boost Eidolon are in the same ballpark: Not completely useless but so niche/hard to properly use that they should not have been a part of the base class.

well, if you have a feature that requires a 2 action impulse, then you need to make sure that everyone starts with a 2 action impulse.

I do agree the design space could be better used. Like if the 2 action was a burst (with MAP).

But I don't expect even a new player to get "trapped" by it. Worst case they have a suboptimal turn or 3.


SuperBidi wrote:
Mellored wrote:
So it's not just +damage. It's +Damage and +THP equal to your level.
THP?

the wood Junction.

Or a step, or +1 AC, or whatever.

Quote:
it's better to double on 1-action EB than use a 2-action EB.

depends if you want the Junction effect or not.

If your air, and want to activate Desert Winds, step, and blast, then there is no reason not to use the 2 action blast.

Quote:
Considering how niche it is, they should have gained design space by not printing it.

I agree it's a bit niche. But not quite as bad as your saying.


SuperBidi wrote:
Deriven Firelion wrote:
Kineticist would be able to do a 2 action blast for 1d6 to 1d8 with Con bonus and strength if using weapon infusion and having any kind of built up strength. So 5 to 9 for a blast plus strength bonus if any. Or a 2 action AoE impulse.
2-action blast is a bad idea. At level 1-2 it can be justified for single target damage but once at level 3 there's no reason to use it anymore unless you can't cast any other Impulse. Overall, it's a waste of design space and a trap for beginners.

you also get your Junction with 2 actions. Assuming single gate.

So it's not just +damage. It's +Damage and +THP equal to your level.

But I do agree that it’s generally best to use another impulse + a 1 action blast.


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IMO, having your gate open is like being a Gnoll with claws, or a shisk with spins.

It's just kind of a part of you.


Easl wrote:
Still trying to figure out Water's role.

I would kinda go by the gate Junction as the role.

Air: mobility
Earth: defense
Fire: more damage
Metal: damage when hit
Water: forced movement
Wood: protection.

But also accept that not everything needs to be in that role. Every element has a wall for instance.


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roquepo wrote:
Before rank 3 spells you don't have good AoE/multitarget spells

Kineticist do.

Shorter range than the higher level spells, but there is a 60' line, 30' cone, and a 30' path available at level 1.

At higher levels, blaster casters probably do a bit better.


Easl wrote:
I will admit to being a noob, but the only way I know for a kineticist to get access to spells commensurate with their actual level is KA + buying scrolls. Any fancier build game tends to be "be level X, get access to spells of rank (X/2)-1".

Fair. I'm also a bit of a PF2 noob.

I was thinking too much about spell access.


The Raven Black wrote:

Which Kineticist element would benefit the most from using scrolls through Kinetic Activation for blasting ?

Or would it be better to just take a caster dedication (Arcane casting I presume) for a Kineticist to blast with scrolls ?

dedication.

Fire gets you a fireball, but Chain lighting and lightning bolt are electricity so not accessible.

There is also Scroll Thaumaturgy. Though the dedication is useless, even with Weapon Infusion.


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I'm not sure you would use chain lightning every single round of every combat.

Use it the first 2 or maybe even 3 rounds, sure. But once most of the monsters are dead, you can drop back to a focus spell or your lower level slots.


Yes, it works, assuming you have the tag.

But not sure how to get good proficiency in weapon and impulses. And the bonus is till the start of your turn so you can't use reactions.

Best I see is dual class, and at level 16 pick up Imperious Aura and Winter Sleet/Thermal Nimbus to trigger it.


shroudb wrote:

If you're playing in a game with infinite gold, sure.

For a regular game, what you're saying is completely unrealistic.

To give some numbers, an average 15th level character has a lump sum gold amount of 13500gp.
4.5k of those are for your fundumental armor runes.

So, if the only thing you have out of permanent items is your armor, you are left with 9k gold.

A level-1 scroll costs 600gp.

So, if you only spend on scroll, nothing else, not a single staff or skill item bonus, you can have... 15 level-1 scrolls.

Can't you get a wand for the same price as 15 scrolls?

Then sell it later?


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You can get the critical "specialization" as a junction option.

Take the fire aura and you will deal about the same as specialization.

And yea, all the other stances and such too.

Also, legendary attacks, along with the items, gets you +1 to hit most of the time.


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Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
The bonus skills from Intelligence never go beyond Trained.

This is the biggest issue IMO. Imagine if Con only add HP at level 1.

A fix might be something like...

Level 2: if your Int is 2 or higher, you may turn one additional trained skill into master

Level 7: if your Int is 3 or higher, you may turn one additional master
skill into expert

Level 17: if your Int is 4 or higher, you may turn one additional expert skill into legendary


The closest I can find is this hazard
Town hall fire

So maybe whatever the bonus damage is (xd6) if they end their turn in fire.

But yea. Mostly for added range.


Ravingdork wrote:
Deriven Firelion wrote:
Kineticist looks like a slower build up class, but once it gets rolling should be pretty strong.
That's my hope. That I will be powerful. Some day.

assuming they are in range.

Doing flying flame + 1 action blast (xd8 with half on save + xd6)
will be more than
2 action blast + 1 action blast (xd8+4 + xd6 at -5)

And at level 5, you flying flame will trigger the weakness even on a save. So that adds up.

Also, scorching column will do a bit more damage than flying flame. Harder to target, but put it in an enemy and they will need to move for some extra.

Probably depends on your party which is best.


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Burntgerb wrote:

It seems like weapon infusion is a huge feat to have early.

With weapon infusion (thrown weapon) your 2 action ranged blasts add Con + Str (@30'max) and your 1 actions just add Str - right? I hope I've interpreted that correctly.

Starting with 18 con and 14 str seems like it'd be a huge help to your early level damage.

2 action blast also triggers your Junction for solo gate.

Finoan wrote:
But Flying Flame: 1d6 to a large number of enemies (and without a risk of harming allies) for 2 actions certainly seems like plenty of damage to me.

Minor correction.

It's 1d8 as a solo fire.


Sanityfaerie wrote:

Oh, and Flurry Rangers don't get all that much, but they do get an applicable form of MAP reduction that stacks with the MAP reduction from agile weapons.

the remaster makes grapple with your fist Agile.

Impulse are concentrat. So won't work with rage. But there's still some good Auras and utility.


Easl wrote:
Mellored wrote:
Not sure why you need a reflex save.

Both scorching column and Hell of 1000 needles give a basic reflex save. So the target will first get a fort save to avoid being lifted/take damage from Hurricane, and then a reflex save to avoid taking the heat/needle damage.

the damage per square is there no matter if they results of the reflex save. Even if they critically succeed.

If they fail the reflex, bonus.

Quote:


Quote:
But I don't see any rule to suggest that it would be lifted straight up and fall straight down
Well the description specifically states you can move them 5'. And that is obviously talking about where they land. That's it; being lifted by the hurricane doesn't give the caster control over 'path upward' in the hurricane.

-Lift .. to any height you choose within the area

-move it up to 5 feet in any direction
-then drop it.

Nothing says they go up in a spiral or randomly.
The 5' is before the drop.
Drops are straight down.

[Qquote]stack 6 blocks on top of eachother, in a tower, with spikes on each side. Nothing in mid air.Again, berms themselves are not hazardous terrain

It's difficult terrain on AoN

Unless they errata it, but that doesn't make sense as a spell then.


Easl wrote:
Mellored wrote:

More of a 2 kineticist idea, but..

kineticist 1 uses Scorching Column, Jagged Berms, or Hell of 1,000,000 needles.
Either will give 6 vertical squares of hazardous terrain.

kineticist 2 (or turn 2) uses Rising Hurricane. Sending them up and down though the hazardous terrain 12 times (13 with water Junction).

Well you're talking a two-person, six-action coordinated combo that requires the opponent fail both a reflex and fortitude save to work.

Not sure why you need a reflex save.

The Rising Hurricane is doing the movement, which requires a failed Fort save.
Everything else is auto-damage per square.

Though I suppose you can use Grab an Edge on Jagged Berms, at least on the way down.

Quote:
IMO the air kineticist doesn't have enough directional control over the rise OR fall to continuously push the target back into the stakes. It's a hurricane wind, not precision telekinesis.

I mean, house rule if of you think it's too good. Probably is.

But I don't see any rule to suggest that it would be lifted straight up and fall straight down. No need to make 5' unless you caught an extra target.

Quote:
also note the berms only create hazardous terrain when they are destroyed - you get the stakes or the hazard, but not both at the same time.

it's difficult terrain when destroyed.

Quote:
not hanging in midair

stack 6 blocks on top of eachother, in a tower, with spikes on each side. Nothing in mid air.

Though notably this doesn't work nearly as well inside.

Quote:

Scorching column and Hell seem okay to combo though.

are there any other vertical hazardous terrain?

Because Rising Hurricane seems to be the biggest forced movement by far. And it does it twice.

Quote:


In terms of storytelling any of the three sounds like a really cool scene. So maybe I'd allow berms + hurricane to clear a scene of a mob in an unimportant or theater of the mind combat.

Story wise, I think scorching hurricane would look awesome, and thematic.


Remastered Elemental Betrayal can now give vulnerability to Wood.
So ravel of thorns can be painful.

Though it is now vulnerability, so won't stack with fire Aura anymore.


shroudb wrote:

Lol funny you mention physics when you fully fail to grasp the geometry at hand. There's no need for rotation.

If you have two non bound planes you can move the below plane downwards without extending force upwards.

To give you a simple graph:

You have this:

---- (wall)
---- (dragon)

The dragon can simply drop one of his sides to:

-----(wall)
-
.-
..-
...-(dragon)

And the wall will naturally slid away due to gravity.

He doesn't have to rotate his body using the center as an axis which is what you have to do if you want to apply force upwards on the wall.

Objects don't change unless acted upon by an outside force. And gravity provides an uniform force downwards.

Any rotation or sideways movement only
happens if the dragon adds force.

F=MA. So the higher the Mass, the higher the Force (i.e. Strength)

Make a wedge out of paper and drop a 2x4 on it. The 2x4 won't notice because the paper lacks strength.
Or (gently) drop a 2x4 on your tilted outstretched hand. You will feel the weight of it (i.e. you will be pushing up).

And no, it doesn't need to rotate around the dragon as the center. Never said it did.

I suggested half the weight as an easy number. But maybe 1/4 would be more accurate (and balanced). I didn't crunch any numbers.


Aristophanes wrote:

...to make a 5' square difficult terrain?

Let's say the party is preparing for a siege, and there is an area that they want to make difficult to slow them down, how many trees would be needed to accomplish the task?

"The GM might determine that the tree disappears immediately in certain inhospitable situations."

IMO, more than 1 tree per 5' would be inhospitable. They just can't grow that close.

Now.. extend kinesis could grow a small tree into a slightly bigger tree.

So combined I would allow 2 turns to make a square of difficult terrain.

But continued casting is exhausting. So it depends on how much time you have.


shroudb wrote:

you forget the simple fact that he simply... doesn't? He can tilt his body by making his body go down, there's no ground beneath him.

there's no need to make the wall go up to tilt the body.

so when i throw a shoe at a fly, it simply tilts it's body and the shoe slides off them?

Not how physics works. Things don't rotate without applying force, which scales with mass. (I.e. bulk).

If the target has enough strength to not be encumbered, the yes, dropping it as a free action would be fine. Wall of Pancake would be easy enough to shrug off for most creatures.

I could also see it as an athletics check, but encumbered seems easiest.


shroudb wrote:

Why would the dragon try to balance the wall on its head?

a simple tilt of its body would be enough to allow the wall to simply slid away and down.

not really.

He would have to effectively pick up half the wall in order to tip it.

I mean, would you alow it to tip over the wall if it was vertical?

Here's the actual math.

And I still think "you get pushed down a bit and are encumbered until you move" is reasonable.


Themetricsystem wrote:
to try to exploit falling object damage

I feel life falling damage is covered well enough. Mainly any creature past the first few levels won't take any.

Quote:
at LEAST directly adjacent to some solid point of reference (or at least another airborne creature) that you can see,

so if I gently place a wall of stone on a flying dragons head...

I kinda feel like they get a bunch of bulk added to them, which is very likely to encumbered them (-10 speed and clumsy 1).
For every bulk over Str+10, they are pushed down 5' (no fall damage) at the start of each of their turns, and they can't fly up.

Seems like a decent ruling?


HammerJack wrote:
Summons have a specific rule for where they can be created. There is not a general rule for a mechanically vague category of "all abilities that put something somewhere". You'd need to look at them all separately, whether the individual abilities, or any of their traits say anything.

most just say an "unoccupied square in range". No rules.

Quote:
That being said, solid physical objects like those examples have no reason not to fall if nothings holding them up, and not reason to need a special rule saying they can fall, like anything else.

do creatures get stuck under them then? Encumbered?

Can a giant pick up a Jagged Berm and throw it?
If I put a "bridge" from wall of stone over a flying creature, does it fall?

Dropping for damage is basically out. But what else happens?


Is there some rule that "unoccupied square in range" needs to be on the ground?

Could you put a wall of fire off the ground so smaller creatures could walk underneath within damage?

What about a wall of stone, wooden palisade, or Jagged Berms? If so, would they fall down?


More of a 2 kineticist idea, but..

kineticist 1 uses Scorching Column, Jagged Berms, or Hell of 1,000,000 needles.
Either will give 6 vertical squares of hazardous terrain.

kineticist 2 (or turn 2) uses Rising Hurricane. Sending them up and down though the hazardous terrain 12 times (13 with water Junction).

Jagged Berms does the most here, capping at 9d6 = 31.5 per square.
* 13 squares = 409.5
+51 from Rising Hurricane itself
+6d6+ 30 falling.
= 460.5

*still does 200 or so to flying creatures.

Any way to give weakness to piercing?

* you can't get Scorching Column and Fire Aura on the same turn since it's an overflow, but even then it caps at 13+10 = 23 per square.
*Elemental Betrayal would add 6 per square = 29 max. Still worse than Jagged Berms.


Fire + Champion (Redemption).

Try to team up with a scout and activate your Aura's before battle.

Level 1
Flying flame (avoiding overflows)
Burning Jet
Weight of Guilt

Level 2
Weapon Infusion (ranged option)
Oracle Dedication

Level 4
Thermal Nimbus
First Revelation (Incendiary Aura)

Level 5
Fire Aura
???

Level 6
Aura of Courage
Volcanic Escape

Level 8
Sacrifice Armor (for Armor in Earth)
Elemental Overlap: Molten Wire

Level 9
Earth Junction
Armor in Earth

Level 10
Aura Shaping
Attack of Opportunity

Level 12
Effortless Impulse (for next level)
Lasting Doubt

Level 13
Rock Ramparts
Earth Aura

Level 14
Assume Earth's Mantle (bigger Auras)
Greater Impose

Level 16
Imperious Aura
Divine Reflexes

Level 17
Fire Elemental Resistance (immune to fire and cold)

Level 18
Ignite the Sun (or maybe the 500' attack, even if it kills
Celestial Form

Level 20
Kinetic Pinnacle
Shield Paragon


Can a leashy use solar detonation to feed itself?

Presumably with fire resistance.


Sanityfaerie wrote:

Your major cost for this (other than the class slot itself) is the need to keep one hand available - either free or filled with an earth/metal/wood shield.

1+ hands (longbow) also works, as well as free-hand (gauntlets).

I wouldn't consider a Fighter with a longbow, who can fly, turn invisible, and drop walls at-will, with a side of healing and a resistance or 2 to be weak. Also, don't forget reflow for utility.

Kineticist as secondary a lot of versatility. And everyone has Con so it makes a decent backup if your against a high AC target or something.

Kineticist as primary doesn't do as well though, I agree. It's a versatile class by itself, but you can't really boost it.

Though
Flame Oracle's Incendiary Aura and Witch's Elemental Betrayal (+Cackle) can both be gotten with dedication, and they stack.


Easl wrote:


I'm guessing that's a Ranger who takes the Kineticist archetype?

Dual class is a variant rule.

You get all features of both classes.

https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=1328

Obviously more powerful than normal.

Quote:
So you're getting the combo at level 16 (for a level 8 kineticist feat), and you're not getting the Aura Junction power of Fire weakness because archetypes don't give those?

yea, wouldn't get the fire weakness with archetype.

Still, 3 feats for a free action step and +2 damage isn't the worst. (+ burning jet for an escape).

Going water, getting deflecting wave and winter sleet would be strongest. But there are some other good options.


Easl wrote:
Either way, KIF is 'your fire impulse.' So whomever the GM rules is affected by your Aura Junction should gain weakness to the added strike damage caused by KIF.

Should be pretty good dual classed with a melee flurry ranger then.

Then you'll have high single target damage plus plenty of ranged and AoE options.


Easl wrote:
note that the fire Impulse and Aura Junctions both only affect "your impulse"

Would that include the damage from Kindle Inner Flames?

"When an affected creature takes a move action, its Strikes deal an extra 2 fire damage until the end of its turn."


HammerJack wrote:

Yes. Unless you know that the creature you're escaping from is immune to fire and can't be harmed by it, or something.

Remember, Hostile Actions are not "this action is defined as alwayd a hostile one and that action is not". It's just "if you know that this action can harm or damage another creature in this current circumstance, directly or indirectly, it is a Hostile Action."

What about actions you took before you turn invisible?

i.e. put down some snares, turn invisible, and then they trigger.


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aobst128 wrote:
The pyro/flame Oracle is actually a character I'm doing in a dual class campaign. It is notable however, that the fire aura junction only applies to fire damage from your impulses only. The bread and butter combo is incendiary aura and flying flame/single action blast. Works like a charm.

Missed that.

Though you can still toss in Thermal Nimbus.

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