Just wanted to get people's thoughts on the new Warpriest. Are they now viable? What weaknesses do they still have? What strengths do they have?
I mean warpriest has always been good, just not really what people wanted from them. They still have most of the weaknesses, the only one they don't really have any more is being a bit MAD due to needing strength, charisma, wisdom and dex, now they can just focus on strength and wisdom along with con and a flex stat for their increases. Strengths are still mostly the same, pretty much always better than cloistered early, decently durable and the divine list is fine if you go pure support on levels where the -2 to spells matters (however divine's damaging spells are a lot more consistent now)
Thanks! Can they still benefit massively from Haste? And I haven't had a chance yet to flip through the Cleric chapter in the new book, is the Healing Font not based off Charisma anymore?
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Warpriest was always viable.
The new feats, divine font and some other remaster changes (like the new actually useful armor proficiency general feat) easily push the new warpriest from viable to "amazing" in my opinion. A shield-wielding warpriest can have better defenses than most martials. And that's on top of 10th rank spells and tons of heals. I'll gladly take delayed weapon proficiency for that, personally.
No longer being MAD also allows the warpriest to multiclass more easily. You can reasonably pick up Spellstrike, Flurry of Blows or Reactive Strike with relative ease now.
Yes. The warpriest improved in a good way in remaster but its role doesn't changed. It still a fully supportive character that can survive in frontline while buff and heals its allies and make some Strikes in free time.
But IMO what really shines in remastered warpriest now is not only the improvement in the class but other minor improvements like Bless that now has 15 foot emanation by default and Swap action to allow the character to change from/to your deity weapon and a Staff of Providence/Celestial Staff to allow a warpriest to spam Bless and then switch to a weapon with a decent hit rate in frontline.
Probably more than the warpriest player itself but the rest of the party will love to have such warpriest with then in frontline.
I won't say the warpriest is bad or that it has been nerfed because the reality is far from that, but I honestly can't for the life of me understand why they felt they needed to gate heavy armor proficiency behind a feat and why despite the Remaster moving away from bespoke weapon proficiencies they kept the warpriest as the only class that has their martial proficiency delayed and only get master proficiency with a single weapon.
Heavy armor already has baked in its own pros and cons so I think it is kinda dumb for the system to tax you a feat if you want to use it. It's not even uncommon for divine casters to have heavy armor as the battle oracle does have it. They also pretty much removed the restriction that druids (I know, not divine but still) used to have so they can freely use more types which opens the gate for them to take the new Armor Training feat and go around with a full plate. Which also reminds me that the Warpriest's Armor feat is effectively as strong as a general feat when those are supposed to be weaker. "Armored caster" was pretty much the theme of clerics in all older editions, so I don't know why they couldn't give clerics light armor and warpriests medium and heavy armor.
In regards to weapons, I feel there could be a better way around it. I get that the idea is to force warpriests to use their deity's favored weapon, though there's deities that have really bad favored weapons or weapons that probably you don't want to use for X reason. I probably want to play an Asmodean warpriest that works as as sort of executioner for outlaws and a mace wouldn't make much sense for such character. For this reason I don't like that you have to wait to 3rd level to use a weapon you actually want to use, and for that reason I also dislike playing a character in a certain way from 3rd to 18th level to then have to switch to my deity's favored weapon at 19th level. I think it would have been much better to give you the master proficiency with your deity's favored weapon at 15th level and then give it with all martial weapons at 19th level if you want to keep the delay. I also think there should be an option to treat a weapon as your deity's favored weapon for the purpose of other effects. A feat like Emblazon Armament could easily do that, or hell, create a new feat that allows you to do this.
Besides that, I feel the warpriest is way more playable now that it used to be. It doesn't exactly tackle the same niche the old PF1e warpriest used to have, and also doesn't compete against something like the magus, but the class itself is enjoyable and fun to play as is. Though I feel it still is one step below what it should really be.
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I played a Warpriest from L1-L20 in Extinction Curse, pre-Remaster. He was a great character: extremely effective and so, so much fun to play.
The Remaster Warpriest is even better. I would've loved Raise Symbol on my build (I used an Emblazoned sturdy shield.) And getting Master with Rapier at 19th would've been a very satisfying capstone (I would've loved Master strikes in the final boss fight.)
The only thing missing that I would've really liked is Master proficiency in armor.
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Warpriests were already great, now it's honestly getting hard for me to build characters who aren't warpriests.
Looking to wield a two handed D12 trip weapon does anyone have any recommendations? Don't want reach with it.
Looking to wield a two handed D12 trip weapon does anyone have any recommendations? Don't want reach with it.
Scythe, Ogre Hook and Warflail would probably be my top choices. The bigger question is do you find a deity who has one of those as their favorite weapon and fits your concept (assuming you want to use your deity's favorite weapon).
Looking to wield a two handed D12 trip weapon does anyone have any recommendations? Don't want reach with it.Scythe, Ogre Hook and Warflail would probably be my top choices. The bigger question is do you find a deity who has one of those as their favorite weapon and fits your concept (assuming you want to use your deity's favorite weapon).
Notably, none of these are d12. I don't think there is a d12 trip weapon.
Oh, yeah. There's none as far as I'm aware. I failed to mention that. My bad. I was trying to give the next best alternatives.
The Red mantis Diety, using Sawtooth sabres and dedicating into dual wield warrior seems kinda cool too, but im not sure how often a cleric will get 2 actions in a turn to use for attacking.
Looking to wield a two handed D12 trip weapon does anyone have any recommendations? Don't want reach with it.Scythe, Ogre Hook and Warflail would probably be my top choices. The bigger question is do you find a deity who has one of those as their favorite weapon and fits your concept (assuming you want to use your deity's favorite weapon).
Ahh ok, I was planning on going a deity with the best spells for a self buffing Warpriest, so I think I would replace the D12 weapon with one of these D10 + Trip alternatives. I don't lose anything really if I don't use the deitys favored weapon do I?
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There's some deities that can use these weapons. The problem is that in remaster still there's no errata for these deities about their sanctification so your GM have to decide about the sanctification or forbid these deities.
The exception is Urgathoa, but err, being a cleric of Urgathoa no longer requires you being evil but her anathema that forbids undead destruction could be very problematic (also is a harm font deity).
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A lot of good things happened for war priests. I'd say they went from awkward but doable, to being quite nice. With the caveat that you have to know what to expect: not a full martial, but about as close as you can get to it with that much casting ability.
* Less MAD because divine font doesn't require Cha anymore
* Somewhat improved proficiencies
* Feats run smoother, both on numbers and action economy
* Some spells got significant improvements (Bless!)
I don't think war priest is the "I'm THE frontliner for this party" class. You want a full martial for that. They're okay for the second one in the front line, but I think they're gonna be absolutely great as the third sort of half-front-line character. Like, a party of Fighter+Rogue+War Priest+Wizard would run quite smoothly. (Rogues need to get over it and admit that they're frontline menaces.)
Notably, none of these are d12. I don't think there is a d12 trip weapon.Looking to wield a two handed D12 trip weapon does anyone have any recommendations? Don't want reach with it.Scythe, Ogre Hook and Warflail would probably be my top choices. The bigger question is do you find a deity who has one of those as their favorite weapon and fits your concept (assuming you want to use your deity's favorite weapon).
Correct. By default it is out of bounds for weapon expectations. The Inventor can do this, or go for Knockdown or equivalent feats.
If we are starting at level 15 as a Human Warpriest would my starting stats at level 1 be:
Str 16
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 16
Cha 10
Level 15:
Str 20
Dex 18
Con 19
Int 10
Wis 20
Cha 10
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That's a decent spread. Only problem I see is that you're going to be stuck with a partial increase (aka an odd numbered stat) at L20.
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Probably the best would be:
Str: Ancestry + Boost = 14
Con: Background + Boost = 14
Wiz: Key + Ancestry + Background + Boost = 18
Another atribute of your choice (usually Dex or Cha): Background + Boost = 14
For a combat focused Warpriest you could take an APEX for Str or Con at level 17.
Obs.: I put the Ancestry and Background in this order to exemplify. You can change their order freely to improve your Background options.
This prevents the level 20 odd attribute/partial bonus.
Algo this way you will get a higher Will even if you are not an offensive caster still good due the Will and Perception improvements and to boost wiz skills like Medicine and Survival.
But of-corse this is considering that you are playing an adventure that goes up to level 20. If not (like most PFS games) put 16 in the stats normally to get the bonus sooner.
I mean warpriest has always been good, just not really what people wanted from them. They still have most of the weaknesses, the only one they don't really have any more is being a bit MAD due to needing strength, charisma, wisdom and dex, now they can just focus on strength and wisdom along with con and a flex stat for their increases. Strengths are still mostly the same, pretty much always better than cloistered early, decently durable and the divine list is fine if you go pure support on levels where the -2 to spells matters (however divine's damaging spells are a lot more consistent now)
Notably, this is an even bigger boon than it looks like, because now its much easier to fill out the dex cap on your armor (or be finesse oriented in the first place.)
How is the Vibrant Thorns focus spell for Warpriests? Is it still a good focus spell or do you guys recommend others?
How is the Vibrant Thorns focus spell for Warpriests? Is it still a good focus spell or do you guys recommend others?
Depends how much aggro you're drawing, doesn't it? It isn't bad but things which require specific enemy action to trigger are always a bit unreliable and prone to table variation.
How is the Vibrant Thorns focus spell for Warpriests? Is it still a good focus spell or do you guys recommend others?Depends how much aggro you're drawing, doesn't it? It isn't bad but things which require specific enemy action to trigger are always a bit unreliable and prone to table variation.
Im the second front liner in the party, I wield a two handed weapon, and the main front liner is a Champion.
Im the second front liner in the party, I wield a two handed weapon, and the main front liner is a Champion.
Champions reaction work on a catch 22 principle were attacking either them or their Allies result in a loss of some sort.
If the second target makes it even less a good idea to attack them, like with vibrant Thorn, the enemies might wither focus more the champion (negating the benefit of their reaction), or even skip both the champion and the warpriest to go focus other characters.
I don't think it is a great focus spell in that specific composition.
(Of course assuming intelligent enemies aware of the abilities of the party)
Im the second front liner in the party, I wield a two handed weapon, and the main front liner is a Champion.Champions reaction work on a catch 22 principle were attacking either them or their Allies result in a loss of some sort.
If the second target makes it even less a good idea to attack them, like with vibrant Thorn, the enemies might wither focus more the champion (negating the benefit of their reaction), or even skip both the champion and the warpriest to go focus other characters.
I don't think it is a great focus spell in that specific composition.
(Of course assuming intelligent enemies aware of the abilities of the party)
This is a good point, it's a retribution champion. I am the highest damage dealer (in terms of non spells) in the party, difficult to ignore though.
Imo it definitely beats champion as my preferred front line holy warrior, and now they've gotten spoiled for options from the remaster (so much so that I struggle to make any warpriest that has room for archetypes). Knights of Ragathiel, rejoice!!!