Jemet Winderbole

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Organized Play Member. 176 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 5 Organized Play characters.


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Dubious Scholar wrote:
Any opinion on alchemical ammunition?
I think there are some fun options in there. I think it's good that Munitions Crafter Gunslingers have more options now. I'll get to the ammo section eventually.
Dubious Scholar wrote:
Also, one amusing note on the Trueshape Bomb - it can be used as a way to break something like Baleful Polymorph, and it doesn't (RAW) require a counteract check to do so. Whether this is the way you want to be dealing with that or not is up to you.
This is true but the damage dealt may be an issue to the individual you're trying to de-polymorph.
Gobhaggo wrote:
Elemental ammo is good to trigger weaknesses, even for non munition gunslingers.
Elemental Ammunition compares quite well to an at-tier Bomb given that the Persistent and Splash are on top of the normal damage. The Action economy is pretty tight though.
Gobhaggo wrote:
Freeze ammo would most likely be used to bypass phys resistance, the effect is pretty good too but static dc though.
I mostly like the ice field effect on Freeze. It's fun.
Gobhaggo wrote:
Ooze is same but it's two steps above freeze since it does offer both utility and damage, especially at 6+, -10 feet(or immobilize on crit) that needs escape? oh yeah baby.
It's pretty decent. Not sure why they made the Escape DCs tougher than Tanglefoot Bags though. Tanglefoot does have a higher Speed penalty.
Gobhaggo wrote:
Blister is good against mages. Like 'really' good, especially if you already decrease the action in some ways.
Anything that makes a spellcaster spend Actions is definitely worth considering.
shroud wrote:

They also break all mutagens as well as most of the stuff that give claws and such with a duration.

Even being able to at will break your own mutagen without having to invest in revivifying has some value.

I don't think ending a Mutagen is worth the pain of using Trueshape to do it, but I suppose anything is possible. Great Bomb against an enemy Alchemist, but Fortitude Saves are generally a strong point of Alchemists who don't use Quicksilver. (And even the ones who use Quicksilver have a decent Fortitude Save.)
Dubious Scholar wrote:
...I do wish Life Shot had any merit at all, but having to spend an action to activate it, plus roll to hit, and then it barely heals at all seems really bad. It seems like the only real use is to stabilize someone from a distance (not a bad use, but like... 1d4 HP for a level 2 item is bad, and the flat bonus is just over half of what an actual elixir gives at each tier). For actual healing, a giant pile of regular elixirs out of combat seems better.

Yeah, it's really situational. But given how rare Ranged Healing is outside of spells, it's still got value there.

I wish I had an update to share, but I'm still working on integrating all the Treasure Vault Elixirs, including the foods that are Elixirs. Soon, I hope.

Woo! 9-12 and my Bomber will hit 11th with 4-11. This should be awesome!

Just imagine - when you hit them, any enemy becomes flat-footed until the end of your next turn, no save.

I do that all the time. Well, *start* of my next turn anyways. :-D

I think what clinches it for me is the following line:

creates a sticky and clinging mist

Doesn't make sense to me that something "sticky and clinging" stops having an effect simply because you walk out of the area where you got tagged with it.

I think the most might actually be effective against anything invisible that wanders into it even after the initial activation.

I thought about going the Intimidation route, I really did... but ultimately I decided to take Medicine, Religion and Crafting. (I need to keep my Shield repaired.)

Battle Prayer has been greatly amusing. I usually only use it when I can't close to Melee for some reason.

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Hmm wrote:
This is a really nice guide. Thank you for all your hard work!

Thanks for the kind words, I appreciate them.

I've uploaded the latest version; I've finished putting Healing Elixirs into their own section and added in the Treasure Vault Healing Elixirs (plus Assassin Vine Wine of all things.) Link in first post as always.

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I have Emblazon Armament, but I never found the room to take any of the follow-ups. I use it with my shield... I value +1 Hardness over +1 Damage. I actually swapped it last adventure... I needed to be subtler than usual and a large Silver Mug on a shield isn't terribly subtle. A smaller one on the hilt of a rapier though...

I have Channel Smite. There haven't been a lot of opportunities to use it, although that may be changing.

It's been quite effective for me when I have used it, even without True Strike. Of course, I'm only at -1 below a Martial these days thanks to Eternal Blessing. EB also has the beautiful side effect of helping out the rest of the party so hey, win!

I went with Cayden Caillean for the flavour (my guy's background is Barkeep) and using a Rapier has been quite fun.

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So, I've been playing a Warpriest for 18 levels now... about to start Book Six of Extinction Curse.

Levels 7-9 are really good levels for Warpriest, really. If you've maxed out your Strength to 18 you're hitting just as well as any Martial that isn't a Fighter or Gunslinger. Expert Proficiency + Attribute Bonus 4 + Lesser Potency Rune.

Where you're lacking a bit is in damage. Most Martial Classes have some kind of damage adder. Clerics, well, by 8th level Clerics might have two minor ones: Divine Weapon and Align Armament.

I have both; Divine Weapon I've used on occasion, but not terribly often. If I Cast a Spell I usually want to Raise Shield as my third action, not attack. But, sometimes I need to play it loose to try to end something, and every bit of damage helps.

Align Armament I've used a lot. It's an action tax until 14th level, but I've generally found focusing on one solid Strike per round is worth it. If you plan to use Haste a lot, it's even better imho. Align, Strike, Strike (Quickened Action), Raise Shield... that sounds pretty good to me.

Keep in mind that you're generally hitting as hard as a Champion, although not as often as you don't have their Reaction, and that's without the two Feats I talk about above. The DPS will never take home the trophy, but it can't be ignored either. I've had my share of fight-ending blows.

I like being in the thick of things. I'm usually flanking with the party Barbarian (he's an Animal Instinct (Bear) Wrestler, and he's scary in the best ways.) I tank a lot with Replenishment of War and Shield Block.

And I have a decent Healing Font (4 per day L5-9, 5 per day L10-19) with a full slate of spell slots. Channeled Succor has been nice on the support side.

I have a lot of fun with my Warpriest. At the level range you're talking about I suspect you'll have a lot of fun with yours. (I definitely had fun back at those levels.)

I like Fury Cocktail, although some things are irritating. (Lowest tier is a L4 Lesser, all Tiers 1 level behind most other Mutagens.)

When considering Fury, don't forget the -2 to Reflex Saves. I find it livable on my Mutagenist (Fury & Bestial share the same Drawback) but Alchemists start with Expert Reflex Saves, and eventually (L15) get Master with Evasion. Not all classes are so fortunate.

AceofMoxen wrote:
Working my way through this. On the water bomb, note that even the 1st level version can help end persistent fire damage. For 3 gp, at any level, you can give an ally a 55% chance of ending persistent fire immediately at a cost of one non-lethal. Could be worth packing a handful of you know you'll be fighting fire enemies.

A good point, and I'll make a note of that. I think I prefer Soothing Powder, as it doesn't do any damage (even non-lethal) but if you need to help at range...

As Mega Bomb is not an attack, there's no Splash. Unless you come up with a houserule...
Mega Bomb wrote:
all targets in the area take splash damage as primary targets

The feat states, outright, that all targets take splash damage. What is unclear here?

1) A Mega Bomb is still a Bomb.
2) A Mega Bomb doesn't use a Strike. It is Thrown with an Interact action.
3) Question: How does Splash apply if there is no attack roll?
4) Answer: "all targets in the area take splash damage as primary targets"

So, despite the absence of an attack roll, the Feat states that all targets take splash damage. No option to get out of it... they take splash damage.

All completely RAW.

Of course I'm going to apply the rules for Bombs to a Mega Bomb. A Mega Bomb is still a Bomb. Mega Bomb is an Additive feat.

CRB pg 75 wrote:
Feats with the additive trait allow you to spend actions to add special substances to bombs or elixirs.

Mega Bomb doesn't create something entirely new. It is a substance added to a Bomb that changes certain aspects of its behaviour. Nowhere does it say "toss out every rule regarding Bombs and only follow this text."

So I'm not houseruling. I'm following the rules for Bombs, which still apply unless specifically changed. So, a Mega Bomb still has the Splash trait. Nothing in the text removes it. We are told that a) all targets in the area take splash damage as primary targets and that b) unlike normal, the splash damage doesn't hit everything within a certain range of the primary target ("there is no further splash beyond that area"). That's it.

No, but as shroudb states, splash is separate from Bomb damage. Always has been. That's why there's a specific rule that the splash damage is combined with the main damage for the purposes of Weakness and Resistance.

You believe "The bomb deals damage as if each creature were the primary target, with a basic Reflex save." includes splash. which shroudb and I both disagree with. "The bomb deals damage" does not automatically include splash. Splash is dealt with separately, as it should be. And when splash is dealt with, there is no mention of a reflex save.

Mega Bomb, pg 80, CRB wrote:
While all targets in the area take splash damage as primary targets, there is no further splash beyond that area.

What you're ignoring is the second half of the compound sentence. The first half states that all targets take splash as primary targets. Normal splash behaviour is that everything in a certain area around the primary target takes splash damage as well. The second half modifies that behaviour. (For which I'm grateful. Can you imagine the hassle of figuring out what gets hit because the splash would radiate out from any targets on the edges of the 30' burst?)

It's a fairly common sentence structure. Compare to "While I normally drive to work, my car is in the shop today forcing me to walk."

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You're the only person I've ever encountered who thinks that the Save applies to Splash. In this case, I believe you're simply mistaken.

I haven't gotten nearly that far myself... my Bomber is only 10th (almost 11th).

The Feat appeals to me. It's not a lot of damage, but the idea of being able to do infinite 30' Burst Greater Alchemist's Fire appeals to me... and the Saving Throw doesn't apply to the Splash Damage. So, minimum 9 pts every time.

Nothing better for triggering Weakness in a group IMHO. But that's just an opinion. Sorry, no direct experience.

Nature doesn't get a skill item until L6, and Primeval Mistletoe requires a free hand. Athletics gets items that help with a subset of checks, but doesn't get a general use item until L9. Religion is by no means the only Skill without a good L3 item.

I just tried it, and it's definitely the new one. Check the Table of Contents; it should have the Treasure Vault Bombs in there.

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So, I've uploaded a new draft with the Treasure Vault Bombs. I've also started reorganizing the Elixirs so that Healing ones have their own section to make it easier on Chirurgeons.

I hope to work steadily at this over the next few weeks to finish it off.

Please look at the latest draft (link in first post) and let me know what you think.

You're mistaken on "no option to reduce cost with extra days" with the baseline rules from the CRB. You absolutely can spend extra days on a batch (or fewer) of Consumables to reduce the cost. I do it all the time. The only difference between crafting permanent and consumables, under the CRB rules, is that you can make a Batch (4) of consumables at one time. All other rules apply normally.

Complex Crafting (Treasure Vault) also has rules to hasten the extra days mechanic (thus saving gp in less time.) It introduces an extra flat check and the possibility that the finished item will have a flaw.

I've been playing with an Animal Instinct Barbarian for ages now in Extinction Curse. We're all 17th level now. He is *scary* in the best way. Bear, in case you were wondering.

gesalt wrote:

I enjoy comedy so I'm looking forward to generic bow fighter #6732 using bola shot and greater phantasmal doorknob to inflict prone+stun+blind+immobilize on crit.

I'm actually just going to put the doorknob on everything I think. Crits effects might not be the most reliable, but when every martial on the team is rocking blind on crit, somebody is going to land it between the usual buff and debuff loadouts and reaction attacks.

I don't understand why the Doorknob doesn't require you to Activate it by Casting a Spell. Doesn't make any sense to me.

I'm not entirely sure how much uptake Weapon Siphons and Elemental Ammo will get. Popular opinion seems to be against Activation costs, which both have. Weapon Siphon also adds to MAP and requires a steady stream of Bombs (although thankfully Lesser Bombs do nicely.) Mind you, if I ever make a Melee Weapon Alchemist, I'll definitely be using one.

I fully expect the Cassian Helmet to get nerfed in Errata somewhere. It's too good.

As far as Energy Mutagen goes, it never worked with Unarmed. It's always been for use with Melee Weapons, which has irritated me in the past.

I'm just glad it's now Common and not broken anymore. I can see a Melee Mutagenist using this from levels 1-3 until they can get Fury Cocktail at L4.

There is so much fun stuff for Alchemists in this book. Just the Alchemical Foods section alone has so much fun. I swear, Greater Cooperative Waffles might as well have a subheading that reads "Created by the Pathfinder Society *for* the Pathfinder Society." (Aid comes up a lot in PFS play.)

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Well, it's down to 1,577 to hit the 100k mark now, so it's definitely possible.

You're not missing it, it's just missing. Something for Paizo to address with their new Errata policy.

It would definitely be a power boost. Alchemist would go from 8 levels of -1, 5 levels of par, 4 levels of -2 and 3 levels of +1 to 10 levels of -1, 8 levels of +1, and 2 levels of par.

My Bomber has an Alchemist's Lab in his Bag of Holding.

Also, the Inventor feat is a thing (and not just for Inventors.) Give my guy 8 days (4 for the formula, 4 for the item), the raw materials and the right gear (which he plans to purchase) and he could make Anklets of Alacrity in the middle of nowhere.

Private Workshops can also be a thing. I really want one, but there's no access in PFS to them...

My Bomber, whom I wanted to Craft things, is Field Commissioned in PFS. This gives him an extra four days of Downtime per Scenario (12 instead of 8).

I usually use this time to Craft some Consumables that are useful to have on hand without dedicating Infused Reagents to every day

My guy has Specialty Crafting (Alchemical Items) and Impeccable Crafting as well. So, the nice thing is, I usually save money at Level + 1 per day, where the maximum task I can get is Level - 2.

I consistently save more money on my new Consumables over 8 days then I could make at Earn Income over 12. It's nice.

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I haven't gone with Backfire Mantles because my Bomber is PFS and I don't feel right handing out magic items to strangers saying "Wear this, Invest it, look after it, I need it back when we're done."

However, Directional Bombs has been brilliant at getting some extra targets into Splash territory while leaving my allies alone. I used to think it wasn't right that the Cone area never grew with Expanded Splash or the Greater Field Discovery, but after playing with it for four levels I've changed my mind. The size is just right for being creative about what gets Splashed and what doesn't.

The thing is, Bombs are a bad fit with Runes all the way around. Bombs are counted as weapons, but virtually everything about them uses their own rules, not the standard weapon rules.

On the Fundamental Rune side, Weapon Potency Runes grant an Item Bonus to Strike Actions. Bombs have their own Item Bonus to Strike Actions. (For most Bombs, coming in one level behind the Weapon Potency Rune.)

For Striking Runes, Striking Runes specify the number of Weapon Damage dice the weapon they're inscribed on do. Bombs don't use Weapon Damage dice. Instead, they do a specified amount of damage that usually (but not always) includes a roll. A standard weapon does one damage die. A Greater Alchemist's Fire does 4d8 fire damage... but is it a standard weapon? A Lesser Alignment Ampoule does 1pt Alignment Damage + 1 Splash. Is it a standard weapon? Acid Flasks do 1pt Acid + Splash, and then a varying amount of Persistent Damage... are *they* standard weapons?

Heck, Bombs aren't even *thrown* the same way as other weapons. A Strike with a Bomb gains the Manipulate trait. Most Bombs have Splash, but not all. And the reason that Bombs, being thrown weapons, don't have the Thrown trait, is that the Thrown trait specifies you add your Strength modifier to damage... which you never do with Bombs (even those without the Splash trait, like Tanglefoot Bags... probably because a Tangelefoot Bag does no damage at all.)

So the notion of somehow applying Weapon Property Runes to Bombs, even through something like the Thrower's Bandolier seems ridiculous to me, considering how few of the rules for Bombs are rules for other thrown Weapons.

All I want from the next APG errata is acknowledgement that a Major Ghost Charge should have a +3 Item Bonus to the Strike.

It's one reason I'm grateful that Sticky Bombs scale the way they do. Once you hit 10th, there's basically no denying that 1d6+6 Acid (Lesser Sticky Acid Flask with Expanded Splash) is stronger than 2d6 Acid (Standard Moderate Acid Flask.)

At 11th, it's even easier (2d6+7 Moderate Sticky vs 3d6 Greater).

The thing to remember with Blistering Invective is that it's language dependent. If there's a language barrier it's a +4 Status bonus to the save. Plus, it's Mental, so there's also a fair amount of Immunity out there. (Yeah, it's a Mental effect that deals Fire damage. Reminds me of Pressure Bombs that have the Force trait but do Bludgeoning.)

Some thoughts:

1) Persistent damage on Weakness is the absolute best. If you can land an Alchemist's Fire on a Troll, fantastic! I think my favourite so far was a Sticky Alignment Ampoule on a Weakness 10 Good BBEG.

2) If there's no Weakness in play, I tend to favour Acid Flask over Alchemist's Fire. If the GM fails the flat check, the Acid Flask tends to do a tad more damage than the Alchemist's Fire.

3) The only problem a Gunslinger has with Persistent Damage is that they have to create two of the same Bomb from each Batch when they do their Advanced Alchemy in the morning. (Makes it a bit harder to get variety.) Otherwise, it's pretty good, although the Action economy is a bit rough.
I do envy them their base damage though.

4) I think a lot of the fun with me is the gamble of it all. Will the GM beat the odds on the flat check, or not? I've seen more where they've been quite unlucky then ones where they only took the one round.

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Generally speaking, if Persistent Damage is a big part of your routine, you want to hit something that hasn't been focused on by the group yet. Classic example from my experience: we were up against large twin beasties. First round my L2 Bomber hit the *second* beastie with a Lesser Acid Flask. Then he moved on to hitting the one the group was ganging up on with Round 2.

That Bomb ended up doing something like 8d6+2 before the fight ended.

What item is this? I can't find an Alchemical Reservoir in Treasure Vault.

You are correct! I play a Bomber and deal out a lot of Persistent Damage. Most of it is in the form of flat values (like 6 pts Persistent Electricity from a Sticky Lesser Bottled Lightning) but Acid Flask Persistent Damage is always rolled.

If I Crit with a Sticky Lesser Acid Flask, at the end of the target's turn it would be (d6+6)x2 Persistent Acid (between 14&24 pts.) Starting next level, a Crit with a Sticky Moderate Acid Flask would be (2d6+7)x2 Persistent Acid (18-38 pts.)

It's an interesting idea for a Melee Alchemist and would work ok as a secondary Free Hand weapon for that build. Otherwise, I don't see the item setting the PF2 world on fire. I can honestly see power gamers buying it "because it's better than an ordinary gauntlet" and then never actually using it.

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Yeah, I think it does.

There are so many new toys in Treasure Vault's Alchemy Unleashed chapter. There's going to be a lot of demand for a number of the items, but the only Class that will have reliable access is Alchemist.

There are new Healing Elixirs that interact quite well with the new possibilities that Chirurgeon has. There's one Elixir that, due to some specific rules Paizo has thrown in, makes a Chirurgeon the best there is at getting rid of poison & disease starting at Level 11. It makes them fantastic at it from introduction at 5th as long as they have Batches of Infused Reagents to spare; from 11th on they can make the stuff for free should they choose it.

The new Bombs are an interesting bunch, and one of them may be the strongest Debuff Bomb in existence... as long as your target(s) isn't immune to Poison. It's the first Bomb since Blindpepper to Debuff in an Area. Going to be tricky to use without hitting your allies... unless you're a Bomber. (If you're not a Bomber, I strongly recommend Directional Bombs, which is a Feat I enjoy anyway.)

There are two new Elixirs, both called Tonics, that every Martial in the game will want a free hand to use before a fight. Can't wait for my Melee Mutagenist to have them.

Anyways, I'm being purposely vague because I want to just whet the appetite. I personally can't wait for the 22nd when I start talking openly about all this stuff and give Paizo my money... which they have definitely well earned with this book.

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The flexibility can be quite useful, in my experience. While shroudb is absolutely correct that using Quick Alchemy to help your whole party is prohibitively expensive, sometimes being able to create the right thing at the right time is enough. A couple of examples:

My Bomber got hit by an effect that would have left him Clumsy 1 for the whole fight. He QA'ed a Sinew-Shock Serum and made the Counteract check.

Another time we had to parley with something in a conjured globe of water. QA'ed a Sea Touch Elixir to give our spokesperson a swim speed.

Quick Alchemy can also be great when you discover you need just one more of something. Sometimes reality just doesn't comply with your planning and you need one more Quicksilver Mutagen, for example. (Yes, I speak from experience there. :-P )

gesalt wrote:
Level 7ish. Assume resist 5. Fighter hits for 9(2d8)+4(19str)+3(weapon specialization) reduced to 11 physical and 4(1d6) energy damage for a total of 15 damage. Alch fire is 9(2d8)+2 with, let's assume, persistent damage that ticks twice for a total of 15 damage. +/- 0 is not a good look when extra money and actions need to be spent. Looks better at range when considering 11 total vs 15 but loses on action economy.

This is somewhat disingenuous. You're comparing a Melee Strike with a Ranged Strike. Also, you're forgetting that the Fighter in question would still apply Weapon Specialization to the Bomb, just at the Expert Level not the Master.

So, the Moderate Alchemist's Fire would be doing 2d8+2 main damage + 2 Fire Splash + 2 Persistent Fire. So, should the GM fail the flat check, that would be 17 points of unresisted fire damage. The odds of failing the flat check twice is around 49%, which is why you'll often see folks say that Persistent damage hits 3 times on average. So, potentially 19 pts from that one Bomb should the fight last that long.

Now, you're absolutely correct about the opportunity cost, and yeah, you're probably better off with finding ways to get around the resistance with your usual Melee Strikes. But the Bomb is still ahead by a little bit.

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I paid for the Pathbuilder Android app. Worth every penny, imho. Impressed that it's a one-person shop.

I still prefer a simple Cat's Eye Elixers, but that is a) consumable and b) has a 30' limit to it's Concealment cancelling/Hidden flat check reducing capabilities.

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Got to thinking about this due to a discussion Sanityfaerie and SuperBidi got into over in the Thrower's Bandolier thread.

Now, my 10th level (almost 11th) Bomber is one of my favourite characters of all time. I find he's been great to play and has been quite effective in my experience.

Now, I don't care much for Citricking's tool. It doesn't suit my view of the game. I'm not about to keep track of every hit, miss, and crit.

I don't mind missing. Everybody misses, even Fighters. I do my best to get the best odds I can and then I roll the dice. If they don't go my way, there's always next time.

Similarly, I don't put a lot of emphasis on Critical Hits. They're a lot of fun when they happen, but they don't happen enough to count on (unless you're a Fighter or Gunslinger.)

What I care about are the results of hitting something, which I do with a fair bit of regularity despite being on my fourth "-1" level (of eight.)

And the thing is... Every other Ranged Striker is starting to throw a lot more dice than I do when they hit.

So I started looking at some numbers. I considered looking at everyone at 11th level, but I figured 12th would be better as Greater Striking runes would be available.

I picked a few Classes and routines. And I looked at what they could do on a minor lucky streak. Three rounds, three successful Strikes.

So, Inventor using a shortbow Weapon Innovation, Overdrive and Megaton Strike: 8d6+6 per Strike; average damage 34, total 102. Same Inventor in Critical Overdrive: 111 damage on average.

Alchemical Sciences Investigator using a Shortbow and Insight Coffee: 5d6+3d8+2 per Strike, average damage 33 pts, total 99.

Precision Edge Crossbow Ace Ranger: 3d10+2d6+2d8+2. 34 average, 102 total.

Thief Rogue with a Shortbow: Sneak Attack on every round, Precise Debilitations on Rounds 2&3 for extra damage: 8d6+2 + 2*(10d6+2) : 104 total.

And then there's my Bomber. Rolling at most 3 dice when I use a Greater Bomb. 2 dice when using a Perpetual Moderate. Sheesh.

Thing is... Persistent damage is a funny beast. Now, I'd normally start off with a Sticky Moderate Acid Flask. If the GM were really lucky with the flat checks I would probably go with two Sticky Moderate Acid Flasks and then go with a Greater Alchemist's Fire because we're getting late into the fight. Moderate Sticky Acid Flask: 1 Acid + 7 Acid Splash + (2d6 + 7) Persistent Acid = 22 pts average. Greater Alchemist's Fire 3d8 Fire + 8 Fire Splash + 3 Persistent Fire = 24 pts. Grand total: 68 pts.

But then we start getting into what-if territory. Suppose the GM failed the flat check on the 2nd Acid Flask. That's another 14 pts on average. 82 now.

How about failing the first check? Well, I'd swap to a Sticky Moderate Alchemist's Fire for Round Two. 2d8 Fire + 7 Fire Splash + 9 Persistent Fire. Average 25 pts. So now our total is 22 Round One + (25+14) Round Two + 24 Round Three = 85 pts.

Moving on... What if GM failed a second check, for the Sticky Alchemist's Fire? The Sticky Moderate does 6 more Persistent then the Greater, so we're up to 91 pts. If the second failed check was Acid, 99 instead.

Fail all three checks and the average damage from the three Bombs would be 105 pts. Which is pretty much in the same ballpark as the others.

That surprised me a bit. And believe me, I know it's unreliable. Still, I've seen GMs fail flat checks a lot... My record is 7 times in a row on a Lesser Acid Flask when my guy was Level 2. (8d6+2 Acid from one Bomb at L2. Loved it.) I just didn't think that a Bomber could get close like that. No Splash on extra targets, no Weakness... Just Persistent Damage, which has its own issues but at least it works on most things.

Well, a +1 Weapon Potency rune is a Level 2 item (as is any +1 Weapon) so you have to wait a level in most circumstances. However, once you have the Bandolier you're set; it doesn't appear you need to upgrade it like you do Doubling Rings or Blazons of Shared Power.

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I've made a habit of just focusing on the fun with Pathfinder. My first character was my transplanted 12th Level Wizard (the GM wanted to try 2nd Edition, so we indulged him.)

The second character I played is an Alchemist Bomber, currently 10th level (almost 11th). I started playing him *purely* for fun; everyone online kept saying how lousy Alchemists were and I just couldn't see it, so I decided to try for myself. And he has been *so* much fun. Best decision I ever made, gaming wise.

Then I decided to try a Mutagenist, since folks said how they were even worse than Bombers... Yeah, still fun. So much fun. Especially now that he has a Martyr's Shield; *that* is frickin hilarious. (He's 8th level now.)

A guy I met through online PFS started an Extinction Curse online campaign. Almost took in another Alchemist, but we needed a healer (and Chirurgeon hadn't been fixed yet.) So I took in a Warpriest. He's 17th level now. Love playing him.

Find a concept you like. Find a Class that can pull it off. Go for it. You're probably going to be just fine, and the main point is to have fun anyways.

So, if you want to throw Bombs, go ahead and focus on throwing Bombs for the next few levels. Expanding into the rest of the toolkit can wait.

Right now, Electric Arc will generally out-damage your Bombs, but some Bomb combinations will come close, depending on a bit of luck. Don't forget that your Bombs will always be better at single-target damage.

I mean, right now, you can make four Quicksilver Mutagens and 15 specialist Bombs a day. As you're generally throwing one Bomb a fight, that will likely last you all day. (More than four Encounters a day is a lot. Happens sometimes, especially in some APs, but it's a lot.)

Going forward... well, there's so many things you can do. Bravo's Brews and Eagle-Eye Elixirs are great, and they last an hour per dose. If you don't have other ways of getting a speed boost, Cheetah's Elixir works. (Especially once you get high enough to get the hour duration one.)

There are new toys coming in Treasure Vault. Some of the new Elixirs are bloody fantastic, and I can't wait to get ahold of them.

For Perpetual Infusions... well, right now I've got Acid Flask and Bottled Lightning. Next level (11th) I'm planning on Lesser Bottled Lightning & Alignment Ampoules, with Moderate Alchemist's Fire & Acid Flasks.

Debilitating is an interesting way to go. Not my style, but still, quite rewarding. You combine Debilitating Bombs with Bottled Lightnings, or Peshpine Grenages, or Dread Ampoules etc, and you can apply a guaranteed Debuff with a potential second one if they fail the save.

I absolutely plan to get Perpetual Breadth, although not until 14th. The notion of ultimately having 12 types of Bombs that I can always use appeals to me. Especially with so many Bombs now having great Debuffs even if they're only Lesser.

Here, under "Injury". Piercing or Splashing is specified; Bludgeoning is not.

L11 Major Alchemist's Fire is likely going to do 3d8 + 3 Splash + 3 Persistent Fire. Average damage: 19.

Greater Striking Composite Shortbow: 3d6 + 1 = 11 avg damage. (If the thrower has Str 14, I figure the Archer can too.)

Greater Striking Throwing Knife: 3d4 + 2 = 9 avg damage

If we're generous, we use Telekinetic Projectile as our Cantrip and do 6d6 + 5, for 26 avg damage.

If the Bandolier added in Greater Striking (forget the +2 Weapon Potency, doesn't stack with the Bomb's built in Item Bonus to Strikes) you'd be looking at 5d8 + 3 Splash + 3 Persistent... so, avg damage of 28.

So, the Bomb is looking very, very good. If you throw in a couple of elemental Property Runes to the weapons, things improve: 18 pts avg for the Shortbow, 16 pts for the Throwing Knife. The Bomb is still ahead here, even before the Bandolier... but not by much.

Now, if our hypothetical Bomb is being used by an Alchemist who took Expanded Splash @ L10, it's going to do 3d8 + *8* Splash + 3 Persistent, for an avg damage of 24. The Bandolier Bomb would be 33.

And if the Bandolier could add Weapon Property Runes to the Bomb, we start getting into the ridiculous.

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