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Once again, you all are correct. I see the light now, this thing I am trying to do sucks. I need to just pickup Knockdown and Improved Knockdown, snatch Combat Reflexes at 10 and if we have one other marshall in the party then Topple Foe makes sense knocking an enemy back prone again and then striking them once they spend yet anothet action standing up.

So I guess I see it playing out like this, my ally attacks an enemy, it procs Topple Foe, he falls down. On my turn I use Clinging Shadows to grapple, then second action Dazing Blow, third action free to do as I please. I may intentionally release the Grapple as I want the enemy not grabbed at this point but simply prone and able to stand up. When the enemy stands up I use my second reaction to attack them with a Reactive Strike with the Scythe or Ogre Hook.

Ally only needs to be adjacent to the enemy that's all. Seems very common.

Awesome, so ya maybe at 16 this is the play. Campaign goes to 20. I will have tactical reflexes, The only goal of the grab is to Daze them, its not to grab and hold prone. The reason for Topple Foe is to trip them so when they get up they are ideally stunned 2 from the Dazing Blow (stunned 1 is much more likely) and then they basically have one action to stand and then one action left (or one action to stand and then turn over).

A Gnoll/Kholo (Uncommon Ancestry, but allowed in PFS if you need to persuade your GM) can get the Grapple trait on their bite (and have some feats re: bones if that's the vibe you're going for).

Topple Foe doesn't feel that attractive to me for a Fighter who already has Reactive Strike (and ways to improve it) and the aforementioned Slam feats given you have a two-handed weapon. A Fighter's bonus is superior weapon proficiency, so use that to trip rather than Athletics where other martials are equal (and in a way where you're waiting for an ally to hit).

As in, it's you hit (w/ the best attack roll available) + auto-trip
vs.
adjacent ally hits + you might trip.

I appreciate your attraction for stacking Stun + prone + grappled, but you might be undermining your goals here, especially with a two-handed weapon (and not even one with a Crit Spec that makes an enemy prone or Reach to get extra Reactive Strikes).

Yes the idea was to use one of my two reactions to Topple Foe, then when they try to get back up then the Reactive Strike. I dont want to spend two actions to Trip the enemy, I'd rather maybe get into a stance like earlier mentioned Clinging Shadows and then I can grapple with no hands. Does that make sense or? I will be hard pressed to be able to consistently use two Reactive strikes in a round, I think its much easier to Topple Foe and then Reactive Strike on the way back up.

I am planning to trip with Topple Foe, the issue I am having is being able to grab the foe. Then once grabbed do a Dazing Blow.

Very nice, so clinging shadows is basically magic so no hands are needed. These shadow grasp strike dont deal much damage but it does achieve the goal of grabbing and will last the whole fight. While I am in this stance can I use my normal scythe attack as well as clinging shadows or am I only allowed to make clinging shadows attacks while in the stance?

I am looking to build a level 12 Fighter with the FA rules. The idea is i would like to Trip my enemies with a Scythe, and use Dazing Blow to stun my enemy. Is there any way I can grab my enemy while wielding a scythe? Like maybe an appendage or something with an ancestry or a special item?

I am looking to build a level 17 Cleric. FA rules are in effect. My previous character just died. I would like bring to life a character that walks up to the enemy and can cripple enemies in close range. I like being in the thick of things so I was thinking maybe archetyping into a class that gives heavy armor and would be able to use a Shield and being able to use Shield Block will probably give me some decent survivability.

I am hoping for a Domain that can provide something that shines in melee, a nice debuffing Focus Power would be nice, but I'm not sure what. Also investing in Cast Down for 2 action Harm in melee range would be nice, perhaps my third action could be used on a single action Focus Point I'm not sure. Would this character be a Warpriest or a cloistered? I would prefer cloistered for the higher spell DC at this level.

Please any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks a lot!

The ability says: Your familiar’s spirit exits its body, leaving its empty shell behind, before flying at an enemy within 20 feet (4sq) and dealing 6d6 (21) spirit damage, with a basic Will save against your spell DC. If the familiar dealt damage, it then flies to an ally within 30 feet (6sq) of the enemy, restoring Hit Points equal to half the damage dealt. Your familiar then re-forms in its original square. At 9th level, and every 2 levels thereafter, the attack deals an additional 2d6 (7) damage.

I am trying to understand how much damage this spell would be dealing at level 16 and 18.

So today we had a couple enemies that were paralyzed. Our party cleric than casted Blessed Boundary, the enemies rolled a reflex save as per the spell. I’m just trying to figure out why is there a reflex save if the enemy is paralyzed? How is it avoiding the spell?

Did you look at the wrestler archetype? Make them a priest of Irori for free unarmed strike proficiency with I think one die size bigger because it's a simple weapon?

Interesting, what's the benefit of this? So I'd have a D6 attack with a free hand?

Oh really? But I plan to be the only healing capable class in the party that was the idea behind the cleric chasis. Since grappling is Athletics based anyone can get legendary? I was thinking the Single action harm + Castdown would be more reliable than anything a martial can do?

I tend to struggle putting my feelings on paper. I'm looking to build a Cleric (Warpriest? I think) that can grab enemies and basically force creatures to attack me while benefiting from Vibrant Thorns and put out damage that way. I was also thinking of using low level Harms with Castdown to prone enemies, then when they got back up the party fighter would smack them with his Reactive Strike This would be a Free Archetype character so I envision tripping my enemies via Topple Foe (Marshal) just after they got back up to their feet from the Castdown. Deity would likely be something Like Trudd for the Mountain Resilience so I could stand in the middle of everyone and take boat loads of punishment. Is this a viable character? Does this strategy actually work in real play? I think the Vibrant Thorns would likely be cast round 1 and then round 2 maybe I'd cast a single action heal on myself in order to trigger the many dices of damage from the Thorns. The only way to really entice the GM to want to focus me at that point would be if I had the enemy grappled?

In order to cast Slow + be able to trip the enemy. Prone but Slow is pretty nasty, on top of having two companions who can Reactive Strike the enemy as he attempts to stand up.

Interesting, so essentially I need Str that's the only way to make it work.

Looking to build a Bard that uses a whip to trip his foes to support party Fighter and Barbarian who smack people hard instead of any combat maneuvers. Starting at level 16 and are playing Free Archetype and ABP. I would like him to be a Halfling despite the -1 to str. I plan to start with 10 Str and never go beyond that, can I still be effective as a Tripper by only taking my Athletics to Legendary while having a -1 Str bonus?

Looking for some opinions on the Drained condition when playing a PC and casting a spell which inflicts it. I know it works very well for NPCs when used against PCs, but how about the other way around. I've had a fee people say the Drained condition doesn't really do much, most other conditions are much worse. So please, sell me on the benefits of inflicting the Drained condition, or is it true that it just isn't very good and I should be trying to inflict a stronger condition.

Hmm thanks, I see benefits in using Hidden mind with Heightened Invisibility as opposed to Disappearance. Mostly because I can use a single casting of an 8th level spell and combine it with 2-3 Heightened invisibility's per day and get similar effects. Id rather not use 2-3 Disappearances as those 8th level spell slots are quite strong I could cast other spells.

Looking for ways to have Heightened Invisibility override See Invisibility and True Seeing. Would attaching Hidden Mind to it do anything?

well, if you havel level 20 unique items on your level 15 character, i guess you're looking for more unique ways to buff others, at that point, you are already above the expected curve.

No, I am playing Stolen Fate. We are at the expected curve.

The Total Package wrote:

OrochiFuror wrote:

Perpdepog wrote:

If it were to be something I'd do, I'd only ever do it once, and even then not for a super important fight. IMO the point of those kinds of jokes is to gently remind the party that the world is alive and will sometimes respond to cheesy tactics they employ with cheesy tactics of their own, not to punish them for being organized and prepared for danger.

I wouldn't do something like that as it's a bit too fourth wall breaking for my style of play. Otherwise I don't allow the cheese in the first place, nearly all buffs are for one combat and setting up ambushes to be able to prebuff requires stealth for the whole group. I don't run and have actually never been in a group that plays as tactical door kickers.

So while the OP may or may not have been super serious, I do think it's good to know how to get the most out of your limited slots and often very limited time in combat to be the most efficient. +12 for possibly one attack though better be on your barbarian as otherwise that seems overkill and becomes less efficient.

Yes I was serious, real serious. We are not able to prebuff, this is straight up in combat, first round, Stride (free, I have an ability that lets me stride for free), then Tempest of Shades sometimes. Then second round we Fortissimo for +3, True Strike and then Strike in order to extend the Fortissimo to two rounds and then followed by the Departure of the TOS. Then I'll use +4 aid reaction on the Barbs turn. He is almost always flanking with the Fighter so we have only +12 there with a reroll. I could cast another high level spell here on round 2 instead of True target, maybe a heightened Invisibility? I think you guys may be right, Blur is ok, but Heightened Invisibility could do a lot of work.

Aid apart from your reaction does also require 1 Action on your turn to setup for it.

The only ability that allows for Aid without that 1 Action is Fake out, and as a bard you won't be giving...

I have Fake Out, Free Archetype Gunslinger. I have Helpful Halfling and also The Publican. It is strictly a reaction.

Perpdepog wrote:

If it were to be something I'd do, I'd only ever do it once, and even then not for a super important fight. IMO the point of those kinds of jokes is to gently remind the party that the world is alive and will sometimes respond to cheesy tactics they employ with cheesy tactics of their own, not to punish them for being organized and prepared for danger.

I wouldn't do something like that as it's a bit too fourth wall breaking for my style of play. Otherwise I don't allow the cheese in the first place, nearly all buffs are for one combat and setting up ambushes to be able to prebuff requires stealth for the whole group. I don't run and have actually never been in a group that plays as tactical door kickers.

So while the OP may or may not have been super serious, I do think it's good to know how to get the most out of your limited slots and often very limited time in combat to be the most efficient. +12 for possibly one attack though better be on your barbarian as otherwise that seems overkill and becomes less efficient.

Yes I was serious, real serious. We are not able to prebuff, this is straight up in combat, first round, Stride (free, I have an ability that lets me stride for free), then Tempest of Shades sometimes. Then second round we Fortissimo for +3, True Strike and then Strike in order to extend the Fortissimo to two rounds and then followed by the Departure of the TOS. Then I'll use +4 aid reaction on the Barbs turn. He is almost always flanking with the Fighter so we have only +12 there with a reroll. I could cast another high level spell here on round 2 instead of True target, maybe a heightened Invisibility? I think you guys may be right, Blur is ok, but Heightened Invisibility could do a lot of work.

Perpdepog wrote:

I'm with TRB; I think spells like Blindness or Blur will be winners for you. I can't think of many more buffs in terms of accuracy off the top of my head. Heroism will eventually give you some more breathing room, action-wise, than Fortissimo does, but that's not until level 17.

Agree. And even the heroism @6 for (just) the +2 will be better I think, combined with synesthesia instead of Tempest of Shades. Heroism frees up you actions and focus points, synesthesia is a 5th lvl spell which could last a minute, leaving you with extra true targets for additional accuracy for the Barb. That leaves the one action for aid and the option to cast any other devastating spell like uncontrollable dance.

Aid only uses my reaction. I pop Fortissimo so both the Barb and the Fighter can benefit.

If I was to cast True Target on the invisible person would I need to make a successful roll in order to target them?

A couple questions here.

1) Let's say my ally is under the effects of Heightened Invisibility and I cast Courageous Anthem (singing) would he still get the benefit?

2) If I have a level 2 See The Unseen can I see the invisible person as concealed?

Yes +12 is correct. But I'm not satisfied, can I do more?

I am currently level 15 and I want to apply more buffs and debuffs. I currently am providing my barbarian companion a +3 status bonus to attack rolls via Fortissimo, I am also providing an Aid to one of his attacks for +4 circumstance bonus as a reaction. I cast Tempest of Shades on enemies for sometimes a Frightened 3 effect (failure) while our barbarian often flanks with our sword and board Fighter to get the off guard bonus. But I am not satisfied, can I provide more buffs? Vs bosses I do cast True Target for him to give him that reroll with the +4 circumstance bonus but I want more. Please help how I can turn him into more of an indestructible walking mound of muscle.

That resistance is peanuts, thanks guys!

The spell states:

Your song moves allies to protect themselves more effectively. You and all allies in the area gain a +1 status bonus to AC and saving throws, as well as resistance equal to half the spell's rank to physical damage.

At level 16 how much resistance would this spell provide?

Or what do you think about going with Quadruple and Natural, and then in terms of regular actions using Rallying Anthem with Orchestral Brooch to ensure the +3 to AC and Saves. Or is Heroics better with the +3? I'm leaning towards Quadruple for the +2 to attack rolls instead in conjunction with the Rallying Anthem at +3 to AC and Saves and Resistance being superior, what are people's thoughts here?

Very good points, I have been pondering this over the past week. The -2 penalty to attack rolls stacks with off-guard and the +2 bonus to AC is real nice effectively giving myself and the fighter and barbarian a +4 to AC. That as a free sustain seems like a real good use of an 8th level spell. I don't think it would be worth it if Effortless Concentration wasn't in play, then I would probably pass on this spell.

Is there a skill feat or something that can let me get a better price on goods bought in shops?

Interesting, I was actually thinking vs non bosses when fighting 4-5 enemies that Flat may be quite good as each round in my experience anyways at least one enemy Crit fails when they MAP 2?

Which key signature and which time signature do you recommend?

Yes I am matter of fact

Can I get people's opinions on this level 8 spell. I am wondering if it has a place in my repertoire as a Bard. I will have Effortless Concentration next level and was seriously considering this spell.

Musical Shift

Traditions divine, occult
Range 20-foot (4sq) emanation
Duration sustained (up to 1 minute)
With a quick series of wrist flicks, music fills the air. While the music can be heard as if it were performed normally at a distance, creatures in the spell’s area become affected in more significant ways. When you cast musical shift, select a key signature (to affect enemies) and a time signature (to affect allies) from the options below; all creatures within the area are affected as indicated. You can change the key signature or time signature as part of the action you take when you Sustain the spell.

Flat (key signature) Whenever an enemy critically fails at a Strike, saving throw, or skill check, they fall prone in addition to other effects from the critical failure.

Natural (key signature) Enemies take a –2 status penalty to attack rolls.

Sharp (key signature) Whenever an enemy takes piercing or slashing damage, they also take 2d6 (7) persistent bleed damage.

Double (time signature) You and your allies become quickened and can use the extra action each round only for Leap, Stand, Step, or Stride actions.

Quadruple (time signature) You and your allies gain a +2 status bonus to attack rolls.

Triple (time signature) You and your allies gain a +2 status bonus to Armor Class and Reflex saving throws.

A few below which I thought might make the list:

Heightened Invisibility: 50% miss chance is extraordinary and having all targets flat footed is beautiful.

Heightened Stoneskin: Any heightened version is extremely strong. You can turn any martial into the tankiest being that ever existed, a nice long duration as well so prebuffing can be done.

Shadow Siphon: Can significantly mitigate dragon breathe weapon attacks and enemy aoe spells

Roaring Applause/Slow: Either one, in a group with two martials who have Reactive Strike then Roaring Applause is ever so slightly better (better range, goes against Will instead of Fort)

Synesthesia: As mentioned above, the best single target debuff in the game, 9th level version is solid as well.

Honorary Mentions: Heal (this one actually is top 5 easily), Tempest of Shades (a nasty enemy only effect with a massive range), Haste (it can be had a number of different ways hence why it may not be in the top 5 but extremely good with most compositions), True Target (high level but extremely potent with the right composition), Hypnopompic Terrors (a very solid success effect, a nasty Failure effect, a fight ending Crit failure effect)

I'm looking for opinions on the best 5 spells in the game on any last. This is very general, obviously some spells are better in certain campaigns etc.

We have a Fighter and a Barbarian in our party, I am seriously contemplating Shared Assault just because the Fighter does Crit with quite a bit of frequency. What do people think?

Thanks a lot, ya definitely retraining out!

I am playing a Bard with the FA rules, can I MC into Ranger and at level 16 take Wardens Boom (Flurry edge) to give to my Fighter companion?

Let's say I am the first to act in round 1, can I use Courageous Assault on my ally or does he have to gain his reaction first in order to use it, hence this would only work on the second round of combat?does specific here overrule general?

What comes to my mind is Distracting Performance.

Just had a question I am a Bard with Expert prof with my weapon, I have Helpful Halfling which boosts Fake Outs bonus to +3. My question is I have this harrow card that does the following:

The Publican represents friendship, shelter, and insight. As long as you have The Publican invested, treat critically failed checks made to Aid as regular failures instead. If you are at least 14th level, the circumstance bonus you provide for succeeding or critically succeeding at checks to Aid increases by 1.

Does this mean the +3 would become +4?

He would be using Enlarge with Whirlwind. Huge size would be important.

It's for a Ligneous barbarian, he didn't want to go Giant instinct.

i'd love to know what consumable/item/noncasting options for enlarge there are for my Barbarian character. Please does anyone have any suggestions?

Amazing thanks!