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Heroism provides a +1 status bonus to attack rolls among other bonuses, Athletic Rush provides a +2 status bonus to Athletics checks among other bonuses, would the two bonuses stack if I were trying to use the Athletics skill to trip my enemy? Or would only the higher status bonus apply here (Athletic Rush)?


Perhaps ya, what's the reason they added you can use manipulate actions part for?


Pirate Rob wrote:

I started planning out a Iomeadean Warpriest build all the way up to 20.

I planned a much more defensive one making use of various Shield Feats from both Champion and cleric to make a tough shield that helps protect allies eventually as well.

Here is their build skeleton.

Despite having a relatively low Wis the character uses Assurance: Medicine for healing from Battle Medicine.

Clearly quite a bit different than yours which is quite neat. Hopefully you see something interesting/useful though.

Very interesting build, I wanted my spells to still be viable that's why I didn't tank the Wisdom, originally my plan was to also tank Wisdom but then I did find some spells on the Divine list I liked. Harm in particular being a single action with my melee weapon was a nice damage increase vs a boss. Other spells like Flame Strike are nice vs a bunch of mooks and the likelyhood of landing is not too bad at all.


kripdenn wrote:
I would say no. The polymorph trait specifies that you cannot speak and Righteous Might says the special attack with a righteous armament version of your favored weapon is the only attack you can use. So I think the intent is you still can't use spells but you may be able to rule that spells with only somatic or material components that don't have the attack trait can be used (though I'm not sure if there are any).

Correct can't speak, questionable whether I would be able to perform Somatic component action spells ie. Single action heal/harm. Harm Infact does not have the attack trait, but not sure what the official word here is.


Can you cast spells while you have Righteous Might active? It says you can use manipulate actions, would that equal yes you can cast spells?


Pirate Rob wrote:

I started planning out a Iomeadean Warpriest build all the way up to 20.

I planned a much more defensive one making use of various Shield Feats from both Champion and cleric to make a tough shield that helps protect allies eventually as well.

Here is their build skeleton.

Despite having a relatively low Wis the character uses Assurance: Medicine for healing from Battle Medicine.

Clearly quite a bit different than yours which is quite neat. Hopefully you see something interesting/useful though.

I couldn't find your attribute allocation?


K1 wrote:

Barbarianwith dragon instinct got a 1d6/lvl aoe dmg every hour by lvl 6.

If you use it before an hour has passes you simply got 1d6/2 lvl.

Imho, you should try to make some comparison between classes.

If you want to deal dmg I suggest you to go for a dps class with higher attack ratio, them move on cleric for support ( heroism and higher weapon dice ).

The Best would be fighter + cleric dedication.

Hmm my Cleric has fighter dedication. Right but how likely is the barbarian to land on his turn? Comparing a Warpriest to a martial seems like a fair comparison.


Baarogue wrote:

Yeah there isn't really any way to keep the 16 Str at chargen unless you sacrifice Wis or Cha, neither of which would be my choice. The Str boost you get at level 5 puts you at the req for the heavier med armors, if you prefer them over scale mail.

That's quite an alpha strike if you can pull it off. Have you considered fitting Selective Energy (Cleric 6) in your build somewhere in case you wanted to take out a lot of minions without nuking your party, or are you solely single-target focused?

Indeed it is an alpha strike (15D10+6 damage). The fact that the Harms don't suffer MAP and the attack would be without penalty so the likelyhood of landing is not bad. Does the barbarian or Fighter have an alpha strike beyond this one?


If someone is under the effect of Enlarge or another polymorph spell can he benefit from Heroism?


Blave wrote:
Atalius wrote:
If I go Warpriest which Deity is best for that? Is Urgathoa viable? Seems like a Scythe is solid and even more so if he takes Athletic Rush when tripping his Trip ability should be quite high indeed.

The viability (or lack thereof) of the Warpriest completely depends on what you're planning to do with the character. He's obviously not the best offensive caster, but can be a good healer, buffer and utility caster.

There's also no "best" deity for warpriest. There are a few sub-par ones, mostly those with weak-ish weapons like Abadar. But without knowing what you plan to do with him, there's no way to recommend a deity.

So what do you want to do? Melee? Tanking? Tripping? Healing? Casting spells? All those things can change a build quite dramatically.

Quote:
The thing is he seems like an awesome class with Heal, but I'd like to try a Harm cleric and for that I feel he's not very strong. Heal seems much better. Then the other problem is his spell DCs will be too low to actually have Harm work half the time ugh.

In my opinion, Healing Font is probably the most overrated ability in the game. It is very good, no doubt, but with the amount of free healing you can get in PF2, it's hardly essential. I'd have no problem playing a Warpriest with Cha 10.

As for Harm, I actually think it's decent for a warpriest. You're most likely in melee anyway, often giving you the opportunity to cast the 1 action version. Since Harm doesn't have the attack trait and doesn't require any kin of attack roll, it's a solid third action to do in any round. Even on a successful save, it's still more efective than missing that -10 attack with your weapon. And if you're worried about your spell DC: Don't dump Wisdom. 16, 12, 10, 10, 18, 12 is a perfectly viable first level Warpriest.

I was thinking, instead of the 12 Dex could I have 10 Dex and 12 Con? I would then at level 1 pick up Heavy Armor proficiency (instead of improved initiative), does that work?


Looking at this domain power it doesn't say it's a forced movement, so would the 5ft push from it result in an AOO?

https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=458


Right, unfortunately the level 8 upgrade gets rid of that.


Right but that's only for attack rolls unfortunately.


I'm looking for some ways my Warpriest can gain status and circumstance bonusus to attack/damage?


Is it possible to retrain at say level 12 from a Warpriest to a Cloistered Cleric or vice versa?


I have completed my Cleric of Urgathoa build thanks to the help of several different people on the forums here, thanks a lot! Just had a couple questions playing a lawful evil Cleric can I heal my allies? Am i allowed to use Breathe of Life to save their life if need be? Are there any other major things I need to avoid besides:

-Deny your appetites, destroy undead, sacrifice your life.

Thanks for the advice guys, appreciate it!


Additionally, if the character was equipped with Handwraps of Mighty Blows (+1 Striking) what would the Stegosaurus damage be?


How would a crit with a Dinosaur Form Stegosaurus and T-Rex work? Would a crit with the Stegosaurus be 4D8 and the T-Rex be 3D12?


Blave wrote:

What kind of necromancer? The evil, spooky kind?

If so, those would be my picks (in no particular order):

Blindness
Vampiric exsanguinationH
Eclipse BurstH
Massacre
Spirit blastH
Finger of deathH
Wail of the banshee
HarmH
Ray of enfeeblement
Vampiric touchH

Sweet! Ya evil spooky kind for the win! We have much to discuss!


Just wondering which spells on the Divine list are best for Cleric Necromancers?


oholoko wrote:
Atalius wrote:
Thanks, this is one area (besides Trip) where the Scythe is better than the Greatsword (Gorum). Would a boss fight at level 12 be against a monster usually with an AC of 34? Or 37?

Depends a lot on the boss... And i would suggest that when fighting a boss the tact is completely different. When fighting a boss as a cleric it's better to buff off your friends and let them handle the blunt of the fight. Using your debuffs mid fight and attacking once maybe twice per turn, you will be doing a lot more damage that way. Maybe using some of your powers to take a hit or casting in front of it to take the opportunity attack first.

So using trip instead to try and get his AC lower is actually better than counting on a crit with the scythe or even doing damage with the greasword.

Ya good idea, I could Trip then when he tries to get up I get the AOO to try to Crit. Is the enemy still flat footed on his way up from prone?


Thanks, this is one area (besides Trip) where the Scythe is better than the Greatsword (Gorum). Would a boss fight at level 12 be against a monster usually with an AC of 34? Or 37?


This spell went from potentially good to just meh. If retching provoked we would have had something here.


Would this disease be considered an affliction? I believe it would. If so would you recommend Take It's Course? It would require me to get both domain powers though.

http://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=456

Wait a minute! Wouldn't for Overstuff if the enemy is successful at the save, if the enemy spent an action to remove the sickness (interact action?) Wouldn't that provoke an AOO?


Anyone have any experience with Goblin Pox? My deity offers it as a first level spell, is this spell viable for my melee Warpriest? Or is this a spell you would pass on? I like the debuff aspect of this spell in particular, it helps me land my attacks with a bit more accuracy but not sure if it's worth the two action cost and being a fort save is unfortunate. One last thing I wanted to ask is this spell better than Overstuff? Lastly is Sickened considered an affliction or a poison?

Overstuff Focus 1
Uncommon Cleric Transmutation
Source Core Rulebook pg. 394
Cast Two Actions somatic, verbal
Range 30 feet; Targets 1 living creature
Saving Throw Fortitude

Huge amounts of food and drink fill the target. It receives a full meal's worth of nourishment and must attempt a Fortitude save.

A target sickened by this spell takes a –10-foot status penalty to its Speed until it's no longer sickened.

Critical Success: The target is unaffected.
Success: The target is sickened 1, but if it spends an action to end the condition, it succeeds automatically.
Failure: The target is sickened 1.
Critical Failure: The target is sickened 2.


Anyone know the likelyhood of criting at level 12 with a +24 to attack roll Vs a monster one level higher than me? Trying to calculate how likely the Scythe D10 Deadly would work. Thanks for your help.


I guess I could spend two general feats to grab medium armor, and go Cloistered to have my Harm spells do some solid damage. By level 11 he will be just as good as a Warpriest with weapons except better with spells.


oholoko wrote:
Atalius wrote:
Hmm maybe the plan is just to do everything the same except go Cloistered? Because by level 11 his weapon will be as good as a Warpriests?
Well if you do that it's better to not invest in divine smite. But yes your damage will be higher with harm. Even if your AC will probably be not as high since you lack armor prof.

Ohhh ya forgot about the armor, so I should get medium armor prof and sport some breast plate at some point?


Hmm maybe the plan is just to do everything the same except go Cloistered? Because by level 11 his weapon will be as good as a Warpriests?


tivadar27 wrote:
Atalius wrote:
Harm Warpriest is starting to sound like he sucks :( basically a weak caster, and a weaker martial than a barbarian and a fighter.

So there are a couple routes here:

1. Get Channel Smite. There'll be times when it's worse, and it only scales up to Expert Proficiency, but keep in mind it also benefits from things like Flank and Item bonuses to hit (there is no save).
2. Be a Cloistered Cleric? I think this route is better if you use a whip (Calistria) and can go finesse. But I'm guessing this would greatly impact your actual build.

Interesting I never considered Channel Smite but it seems so risky, I can lose a Harm if I miss on my attack roll? So if I use Castdown+Channel Smite and I miss with the attack roll everything fails?


Harm Warpriest is starting to sound like he sucks :( basically a weak caster, and a weaker martial than a barbarian and a fighter.


Ugh that's rough, but levels 11-14 I'll be the same as a cloistered.


Like 50% to land? Or 40% to land?


With a 20 Wisdom at level 10 how likely am I to land my Harm spell vs enemies? Since my proficieny will only be trained.


thenobledrake wrote:

Emblazon Energy clearly says "instead."

So you can choose the +1 status bonus to damage for a weapon which just adds to whatever damage type the weapon does, or you can choose to add 1d4 damage (or 1d6 with the right domain spell) of a type your weapon probably doesn't already deal.

So I have to spend two feats to get that extra 1D4 damage since I'm a follower of Urgathoa? :O

I guess that is better than just +1 bonus, so ya makes sense I guess. It would really be worth it if I was a different deity though.


So I'm a bit confused, if you get this feat do you no longer get the +1 status bonus to damage (assuming you took weapon) and instead get the 1D4 damage? That can't be right. You would get both no?


Blave wrote:
If it's a whole campaign, just be half-elf, leave dex at 12 and get multitalented at 9 and AoO at 10. Problem solved.

Gold! What's better about Half Elf instead of Human? And which ancestry feats do you recommend before level 9?


HammerJack wrote:

Retraining is certainly in the game. The thing you'll need to note is this:

"When retraining, you generally can’t make choices you couldn’t make when you selected the original option. For instance, you can’t exchange a 2nd-level skill feat for a 4th-level one, or for one that requires prerequisites you didn’t meet at the time you took the original feat. If you don’t remember whether you met the prerequisites at the time, ask your GM to make the call. If you cease to meet the prerequisites for an ability due to retraining, you can’t use that ability. You might need to retrain several abilities in sequence in order to get all the abilities you want."

So if you want to retrain your level 2 and 4 feats, you need to have had the prerequisite attributes at level 2 and 4.

Thanks Hammerjack. The news was not encouraging but very helpful!


Ohh, no it would be a full campaign sorry I should have mentioned that. Is it possible to retrain once I'm level 5 or 6 let's say, and replace my level 2 and 4 feats for fighter dedication and snatch AOO? Is that something that is in the rules or is that something that isn't retrainable?


Is it possible to get AOO from Fighter at a higher level say not 2 and 4 but what about 6 and 8 or something?


Baarogue wrote:

Yeah there isn't really any way to keep the 16 Str at chargen unless you sacrifice Wis or Cha, neither of which would be my choice. The Str boost you get at level 5 puts you at the req for the heavier med armors, if you prefer them over scale mail.

That's quite an alpha strike if you can pull it off. Have you considered fitting Selective Energy (Cleric 6) in your build somewhere in case you wanted to take out a lot of minions without nuking your party, or are you solely single-target focused?

Hmm, I think I'm more single target focused but I'm open to the 3 action version. Just trying to make the best Cleric of Urgathoa I can. It just seems whatever level 2 and 4 class feats I grab they are not going to be as good as AOO. That AOO extra attack is just so powerful when you have Castdown. Is there a different race I could play to reach that Dex 14 requirement or is the best way to lower Str to a measly 14?


Baarogue wrote:

The easy way I see you getting Dex 14 is putting your Farmhand free boost into Dex instead of Str.

I might not have emphasized Harm so much without supporting it with a higher Cha modifier. I guess you're only planning to use it against the big bad, and even then only if they're not undead?

Then would I basically have a 14 Str to start? Ya I would basically start with 2 Harms a day which would be used against the big bad, and one or two level one spell slots on a couple more Harms if really needed.

I guess also in a round at lvl 12 if I didn't want to use Castdown for whatever reason, I could cast Harm twice and attack also for a potential 15D10+6 damage.


Hello Paizonians,

I'm trying to build a Warpriest of Urgathoa. I went with Urgathoa because I would like to use the Scythe for its solid damage and its ability to trip whenever I'm not using Harming Font to knock my enemies Prone with Castdown. I'm confused as to what my 3 main skills should be, In this build I took Intimidate, Medicine and Athletics, Here's what I have tell me what you would change.

Human Cleric of Urgathoa

Str 16
Dex 12
Con 10
Int 10
Wis 18
Cha 12

Is there anyway to get Fighter dedication at level 2/4 for the AOO? I need 14 Dex somehow, I would love to get it because my character can Castdown the enemy with Harming Font and spend my third action making an attack with the scythe. Two things I truly wish this character had were access to the spell Haste and AOO.
.

Level 1:
Ancestry feat: Natural ambition - Harming Hands
Background: Farmhand
Deity: Urgathoa
Versatile Heritage: Incredible Initiative
First Doctrine: Warpriest (trained in light and medium armor)

Level 2:
Class feat: Fighter MC or Domain Initiate Might
Skill feat: Intimidating Glare

Level 3:
Skill Increase: Intimidate (expert)
General feat: Toughness
Second Doctrine: Trained in martial weapons

Level 4:
Class feat: Fighter MC (AOO) or Emblazon Armament
Skill feat: Intimidating Prowess

Level 5:
Skill increase: Medicine (expert)
Ancestry feat: Clever Improviser
Ability boosts: Str, Wis, Con, Cha
Alertness: Perception becomes Expert proficiency

Level 6:
Class feat: Cast Down
Skill feat: Titan Wrestler?

Level 7:
General feat: Fleet
Skill increase: Intimidate (master)
Third Doctrine: Expert proficiency with Deity's favored weapon (Scythe)

Level 8:
Class feat: Advanced Domain: Enduring Might
Skill feat: Battle medicine

Level 9:
Ancestry Feat: Incredible Improvisation
Skill increase: Medicine (master)
Resolve: Will saves (Master)

Level 10:
Ability Boosts: Str, Con, Wis, Cha
Class feat: Replenishment of War
Skill feat:

Level 11:
Fourth Doctrine: Proficiency ranks for divine spell attack rolls and spell DCs increase to expert.
General Feat:
Skill increase: Athletics (Expert)
Lightning Reflexes: Reflex saves (Expert)

Level 12:
Class feat: Domain Focus
Skill feat:

At level 12 he will likely be dealing 3D10+4 damage (+5 only with Emblazon Armament) and his Harming Font will deal 6D10 damage. So a sample round vs a boss would be:

1st action: Castdown
2nd action: Harming Font
3rd action: Attack

Total potential damage 9D10+4. I have no idea whether this is a small amount of damage compared to fighters and barbarians, an average amount of damage or a very good amount of damage at this level, maybe someone can chime in?

Thanks for all your help friends, I'm really hoping this character can be much more than just viable, with your help I feel it certainly could be.


On a failed save it says the enemy is afflicted for 1 round, does that mean the spell ends automatically after 1 round without a save? Or does that mean after 1 round the enemy gets a saving throw to try and cure itself otherwise it will go on for another round until they successfully save.

https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=139


I hope you finish this guide it's excellent


Oh I just realized I got 12 Dex can't go AOO :(


The Might Domains Athletic Rush, would the +2 status bonus to Athletics checks apply to attempting to Trip my enemy if I used the ability during the same round. From reading the description is sounds as if it wouldn't because it only applies to the actual moving phase?

https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=402


For my 3 skills which would you recommend? Could I take Medicine to heal myself? I see healing others is a no-no.

Would you recommend fighter dedication at 2 and 4 to snatch AOO?


Blave wrote:
Atalius wrote:
If I go Warpriest which Deity is best for that? Is Urgathoa viable? Seems like a Scythe is solid and even more so if he takes Athletic Rush when tripping his Trip ability should be quite high indeed.

The viability (or lack thereof) of the Warpriest completely depends on what you're planning to do with the character. He's obviously not the best offensive caster, but can be a good healer, buffer and utility caster.

There's also no "best" deity for warpriest. There are a few sub-par ones, mostly those with weak-ish weapons like Abadar. But without knowing what you plan to do with him, there's no way to recommend a deity.

So what do you want to do? Melee? Tanking? Tripping? Healing? Casting spells? All those things can change a build quite dramatically.

Quote:
The thing is he seems like an awesome class with Heal, but I'd like to try a Harm cleric and for that I feel he's not very strong. Heal seems much better. Then the other problem is his spell DCs will be too low to actually have Harm work half the time ugh.

In my opinion, Healing Font is probably the most overrated ability in the game. It is very good, no doubt, but with the amount of free healing you can get in PF2, it's hardly essential. I'd have no problem playing a Warpriest with Cha 10.

As for Harm, I actually think it's decent for a warpriest. You're most likely in melee anyway, often giving you the opportunity to cast the 1 action version. Since Harm doesn't have the attack trait and doesn't require any kin of attack roll, it's a solid third action to do in any round. Even on a successful save, it's still more efective than missing that -10 attack with your weapon. And if you're worried about your spell DC: Don't dump Wisdom. 16, 12, 10, 10, 18, 12 is a perfectly viable first level Warpriest.

Interesting analysis, I like that stat array. Ideally I'd like to play a Warpriest who can deal damage but also occasionally be able to knock enemies prone whether that be through there weapon via Athletics or through Harm Castdown? I imagine that could certainly work with an 18 Wis. It seems like Harm with Castdown could be an extremely reliable way to knock a boss prone as long as they don't critically succeed which they likely won't with an 18 Wis.


prototype00 wrote:

So winners:

Str Monks:

- Dragon Style: Excellent Damage and a good debilitation effect.

- Mountain Style: Excellent Tanking and a good debilitation effect.

- Ironblood Style: Top Tier Tanking and prime contender to Fuse with either Dragon or Mountain Style.

Dex Monks:

- Tiger Style: Some interesting tricks, and the potential to cause some heinous damage on a crit. Shame about the no-shields though.

- Tangled Forest Style: Excellent Lockdown and might be a good contender to fuse with Mountain Style or Ironblood Style to keep enemies around you while your party massacres them.

Really cool breakdown, can the damage from Tiger stance be comparable to a barbarians or a fighters? I mock built a mountain stance monk and he was quite good, wondering if the Tiger stance Monk has potential to put up some serious deeps.

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