Doesn't Weapon Infusion cover this trope?
You're only two feats away from realizing your dream (Kineticist Dedication and Through the Gate: Weapon Infusion). Though you will need to sink as many as three more (Improved Elemental Blast) into it for it to remain competitive.
No it doesn't because you cannot do a Power Attack with an EB for example.
In playtest the Elemental Weapon allowed a kineticist to receive benefits from martial archetype feats. Weapon Infusion doesn't allow this.
About the reason only designers know but I believe it was because the Elemental Blast became like a cantrip and make a Elemental Weapon feat working as weapon would require an entire separated mechanic just for it.
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Yeah, there are some mechanical differences, but conceptually speaking, it still lets you realize the same concept of "elemental weapon wielder."
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Anyone know why - or can anyone ask why - the devs removed elemental weapon from kineticist? I really wanted to be a fighter or Barbarian wielding a fire sword or ice sword, but now I can't.
There was an extremely vocal section of the playtest audience that were very upset about blasts scaling with handwraps and wanted all martial-ness excised from the class.
Which is why the final version uses cantrip-like mechanics for blasts and why all weapon-based support was removed.
In other words, shutting down your cool kinetic weapon ideas is a feature, not a bug.
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I really wanted to be a fighter or Barbarian wielding a fire sword or ice sword, but now I can't.
Doesn't Weapon Infusion cover this trope?
You're only two feats away from realizing your dream (Kineticist Dedication and Through the Gate: Weapon Infusion). Though you will need to sink as many as three more (Improved Elemental Blast) into it for it to remain competitive.
No. Not even close.
It uses your impulse attack rather than your normal attack, (and you only get up to expert, so it's basically useless for fighter) it doesn't create any type of weapon so I can't create picks or other new weapons that might be released. I can't create cold scatter guns for example.
It's probably my biggest complaint right now.
So in the first post you are arguing for narrative description.
Then when someone shows you how that narrative description does in fact work, the argument changes to be that you can't poach the ability to use with a Fighter, or to create specific weapons, which is something that would be done with description and flavor rather than mechanics.
Mostly at this point I am confused at what your actual objection is. You seem to be trying to evade stating distinctly what your concern actually is.
So in the first post you are arguing for narrative description.
Narrative and mechanics support each other. The argument isn't changing so much as simply pointing out the way the existing mechanics do not support their preferred narrative (which again, is by design, because people in the playtest were weird).
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Also not sure what's wrong with a Brilliant Rune if all you want is a weapon that looks like it is made of energy.
Anyone know why - or can anyone ask why - the devs removed elemental weapon from kineticist? I really wanted to be a fighter or Barbarian wielding a fire sword or ice sword, but now I can't.There was an extremely vocal section of the playtest audience that were very upset about blasts scaling with handwraps and wanted all martial-ness excised from the class.
Which is why the final version uses cantrip-like mechanics for blasts and why all weapon-based support was removed.
In other words, shutting down your cool kinetic weapon ideas is a feature, not a bug.
I too am bummed that Blasts went the spell direction instead of the weapon direction, but I recognize that that is what more people asked for in all the surveys so I wasn't really expecting to see it stick around in the revised class. People overall seem very, very happy with the kineticist, so I am sure it was the right choice overall.
I am still bummed that the Magus collapsed spell striking down into one 2 action activity that can't be combined with any cool martial feats, as that was a really fun build in the Magus playtest, but again, people overall seem pretty happy, so I don't begrudge what didn't make it. I mostly GM these days anyway so I don't get to play the shiny new classes too often outside of their playtests.
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Verzen is right about unviable options. Might as well not even exist as they are waste a feats or build resources.
Verzen is right about unviable options. Might as well not even exist as they are waste a feats or build resources.
Indeed. You don't have to buy Rage of Elements if it doesn't let you poach Kineticist abilities as completely equivalent to a weapon.
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The whole, "You're poaching abilities.from other classes by getting that dedication into that class" is at best dishonest and at worst, a childish take.
The entire point of getting the dedication should be to obtain some of the flavor of that class.
And it should remain viable for actual usage otherwise what's the point?
Meh, that's pretty standard for archetypes. For spellcasting archetypes, even if you spend the dedication, several skill boosts, and three more feats you will constantly be two spell levels behind what an actual spellcaster could cast. You know - those highest two spell ranks that are actually usable in combat.
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I honestly hoped for weapon impulses too, that could have been fun
the spell-like impulses like they are now look fun too
but honestly, what the multiclass dedication offer for those is ridiculous
the dedication still is not bad per se, you just have to stick to the luckily many impulses that dont rely on attack and dc (armor, enviromental, support abilities) which opens up a lot of options
but in terms of offense, from what I know, Kineticist is probably the weakest multiclass dedication of them all
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What has two legs and bleeds a lot?
...
Half a familiar.
I'm staying the obvious but the reason weapon infusion replaced elemental weapon is because it works much better with base kineticist while delivering on a lot of the flavour. If we kept elemental weapon as it was in the playtest it would likely widely be considered suboptimal and bad, similar to a lot of casters with splashes of melee feats (eldritch nails, dragon claws, etc. I realize these are different in their own ways but just for the sake of a quick comparison).
As far as not being able to get elemental weapon on other classes, paizo likely saw that there are other similar options like others in this thread have pointed out. The best course of action, in my opinion, is to accept that it's a very niche desire and flavour other existing options as you see fit. For paizo to use page space to make another archetype that is so close to mind Smith but with a different flavor is probably not in the cards.
Does not RoE have elemental weapons as items?
I remember to see an metal guitar but RoE has many elemental related items in the book. IMO a "light saber" or a Gorun Nova makes more sense to a class specialized in martial techniques/rage than a kineticist, an elemental bender that can mold elements at will to become focused only in a energy weapon.
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There was an extremely vocal section of the playtest audience that were very upset about blasts scaling with handwraps and wanted all martial-ness excised from the class.
This feels somewhat uncharitable. I think the loudest comment from the playtest was "having this be a con-class is good, but constitution should do something for the class beyond what it does for literally everybody else." So the solution to that is "use your class DC (based on Con) for attack rolls" giving us cantrip-like things.
I like the Kineticist being able to be somewhat martial, but the playtest version lacking any mechanical reason to boost their KAS went amiss.
I was unaware mindsmith allowed me to create a weapon that deals energy damage.I'm staying the obvious but the reason weapon infusion replaced elemental weapon is because it works much better with base kineticist while delivering on a lot of the flavour. If we kept elemental weapon as it was in the playtest it would likely widely be considered suboptimal and bad, similar to a lot of casters with splashes of melee feats (eldritch nails, dragon claws, etc. I realize these are different in their own ways but just for the sake of a quick comparison).
As far as not being able to get elemental weapon on other classes, paizo likely saw that there are other similar options like others in this thread have pointed out. The best course of action, in my opinion, is to accept that it's a very niche desire and flavour other existing options as you see fit. For paizo to use page space to make another archetype that is so close to mind Smith but with a different flavor is probably not in the cards.
I'm not saying there aren't differences. I'm saying the differences are very minute. It's not enough of a difference to make an archetype. And if it was a kineticist feat, people would be upset that it didn't work with the class, and those who multiclassed for it would be upset it took at least two feats and their dedication 'slot' to get something that's so close to an existing archetype.
I've been where you are, wishing there was some detail added to a class or a feat that stayed in from the playtest (stone shield I miss you). Accepting things the way they are is the best way to solve your issue.
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Verzen is right about unviable options. Might as well not even exist as they are waste a feats or build resources.Don't forget paper. If an option isn't viable, it's just wasting space in a book.
It does waste space in a book. I don't use paper books too often any longer. I'm mostly digital now.
I was unaware mindsmith allowed me to create a weapon that deals energy damage.
I mean, if you keep on lookin' for problems, problems is what ya' gonna' get.
Couldn't you just play a melee-oriented kineticist? You'd suffer some accuracy lapses at like 5th and 6th since you're choosing to target AC, and the gate attenuator gives you +2 but never +3, but I don't see a reason this wouldn't work.
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I'm not looking for problems. I have a fantasy character I want to fulfill and yall are like, "can you just use a different fantasy character that is entirely different than what you envisioned?"
That's what that means. Several people have suggested ways of building the character that you claim that you want, but then you shut down the build for some reason because it isn't exactly what you are hoping for - which as best as I can tell is to have all of the benefits of Fighter's accuracy and all of the benefits of Kineticist elemental damage to use to target weaknesses with.
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Farien, what are you still doing here?
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Me? What are you still doing here? Weren't you told to go away?
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Yes. I was told in no uncertain terms that my request for a clear statement of intent would not be responded to.
I became concerned when you did not follow me.
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*sigh*
Fine.
A sword made out of ice should still to a fair bit of slashing or piercing damage, no? That feels like just a magic item to me. The fantasy of summoning the weapon really does feel soul forgey to me. The open a gate an pull a weapon out of pure elemental energy is more than that, but is now a Barbarian or a kineticist first?
It's not broken to want a fighter with a sword made of ice.I'm not looking for problems. I have a fantasy character I want to fulfill and yall are like, "can you just use a different fantasy character that is entirely different than what you envisioned?"That's what that means. Several people have suggested ways of building the character that you claim that you want, but then you shut down the build for some reason because it isn't exactly what you are hoping for - which as best as I can tell is to have all of the benefits of Fighter's accuracy and all of the benefits of Kineticist elemental damage to use to target weaknesses with.
If I were DM, I would give you a sword made of ice. I'm nice like that.
There was an extremely vocal section of the playtest audience that were very upset about blasts scaling with handwraps and wanted all martial-ness excised from the class.This feels somewhat uncharitable. I think the loudest comment from the playtest was "having this be a con-class is good, but constitution should do something for the class beyond what it does for literally everybody else." So the solution to that is "use your class DC (based on Con) for attack rolls" giving us cantrip-like things.
I like the Kineticist being able to be somewhat martial, but the playtest version lacking any mechanical reason to boost their KAS went amiss.
Playtest kineticist also had some of the worst damage in the game. I personally liked that they were ranged unarmed strikes, but if this is what had to be done, then so be it. The class looks pretty good now. My only complaint is the class is "parasitic" to borrow a term for magic. A parasitic mechanic in magic is one that only works with itself or other mechanics in the set it is in. Infect is a famous example where you go all in on infect or you don't do it at all. Kineticist is the same way where you have to go all in and it plays very poorly with other classes and archetypes
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If I were DM, I would give you a sword made of ice. I'm nice like that.It's not broken to want a fighter with a sword made of ice.I'm not looking for problems. I have a fantasy character I want to fulfill and yall are like, "can you just use a different fantasy character that is entirely different than what you envisioned?"That's what that means. Several people have suggested ways of building the character that you claim that you want, but then you shut down the build for some reason because it isn't exactly what you are hoping for - which as best as I can tell is to have all of the benefits of Fighter's accuracy and all of the benefits of Kineticist elemental damage to use to target weaknesses with.
Yes just reskin a sword with a frost rune to instead of just draw, when you draw its hilt its forms a frozen blade from it that have the same stats of your choosen sword + frost rune effects.
In practice its this that you will get if you was able to summon an elemental weapon anyway.
I do wish there was a bit more to blasting with specific impulse support. There's a few feats like chain infusion (although it's very bad) and lightning rod that involve an elemental blast specifically. Kinda wanted more of that to support your basic blasts.
I can totally get behind more infusions. And frankly, more of everything kineticist.