Is there any spoiler of what we might see at GenCon about Remaster Project?


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

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Horizon Hunters

I'm not going to be there (T.T) Anyone know of what going to be presented? Which day? Is there a schedule anywhere? Is going to be streamed on Twitch or Youtube?


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Romão98 wrote:
I'm not going to be there (T.T) Anyone know of what going to be presented? Which day? Is there a schedule anywhere? Is going to be streamed on Twitch or Youtube?

I believe, due to the marketing team being at GenCon, there's only going to be pre-recorded videos posted up during the GenCon weekend, including a video covering more of the Remaster changes.


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/corepreview was teased by RoE previews

Page isn't up when they aren't pre-recording

Now page is up and told to be open at GenCon(Around Aug 3)


Laclale♪ wrote:

/corepreview was teased by RoE previews

Page isn't up when they aren't pre-recording

Now page is up and told to be open at GenCon(Around Aug 3)

Specifically, the .PDF will be available about 5 minutes after Erik Mona's opening Keynote being broadcast on August 3rd.


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Ezekieru wrote:
Laclale♪ wrote:
/corepreview (rest are snippea)
Specifically, the .PDF will be available about 5 minutes after Erik Mona's opening Keynote being broadcast on August 3rd.

It came earlier than we expected! It's now alive!


I just want to say that Thunderstrike is solid and blaster casters everywhere should enjoy it. 120' range, 9 damage/rank average (1d12 electric, 1d4 sonic), metal targets take a penalty on the reflex save, and are clumsy 1 for a round if they take any damage at all (i.e. on any result except critical success usually).

Also, am I reading this right that focus points are now uncapped? (It just says you have focus points equal to focus spells known. Some classes can learn a LOT of focus spells. Looking at Monk and Cleric especially there)


My feeling from seeing cantrips in rage of elements not have it was right, produce flame/ignition has lost its spell mod damage just getting one more base dice in exchange so I'm willing to bet that's gonna be the general case on cantrips which feels bad to me


Yeah, I'm not sure how to feel about that. It resolves a rules oddity on Summoner nicely, but the flat damage chunk was a big part of their early damage output. In the long run, the difference is less significant, but.


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Karneios wrote:
My feeling from seeing cantrips in rage of elements not have it was right, produce flame/ignition has lost its spell mod damage just getting one more base dice in exchange so I'm willing to bet that's gonna be the general case on cantrips which feels bad to me

Looking at rage, it's possible that they lost the ability mod. This would be a nerf (at higher level) when ability mods get above +5, but otherwise should leave cantrips unchanged (3d4 ~ 7.5 ~ 1d4+5) above level 10, and is actually a boost below that when ability mods are only +4.

But it's also possible that all damaging cantrips now add an ability mod and they're not writing it out on everything to save page space. Which would obviously be a great buff.

Hopefully we find out soon!


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Calliope5431 wrote:

But it's also possible that all damaging cantrips now add an ability mod and they're not writing it out on everything to save page space. Which would obviously be a great buff.

Hopefully we find out soon!

If such a clause was applied to all damaging cantrips, that would have been noted in this document, just as the change to the Dedication trait was made known. I'm 100% sure that cantrips doing 2d4 VS 1d4 + spellcasting mod is just the way they decided to go with in terms of balancing.


Ezekieru wrote:
Calliope5431 wrote:

But it's also possible that all damaging cantrips now add an ability mod and they're not writing it out on everything to save page space. Which would obviously be a great buff.

Hopefully we find out soon!

If such a clause was applied to all damaging cantrips, that would have been noted in this document, just as the change to the Dedication trait was made known. I'm 100% sure that cantrips doing 2d4 VS 1d4 + spellcasting mod is just the way they decided to go with in terms of balancing.

Yeah that is entirely fair and almost certainly true.

*Sadface*


core preview PDF wrote:

Formerly, dedication feats for archetypes listed a note you need to take two other feats from the archetype before taking a new dedication feat. Those rules are now in the rules for the trait itself.

Any archetypes that intentionally left room for exceptions—such as some archetypes that count feats from other archetypes toward this number—might get errata closer to the release of the final books.

Flexible Spellcaster Dedication needs errata then.


core preview PDF wrote:
The maximum number of Focus Points in your pool is always equal to the number of focus spells you know.

Hmm... is Psychic amp and/or focus cantrips counted as focus spells?

Psychic only has focus cantrips if you don't
know why I asking this.


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I'm honestly not totally sure why the "2 other feats" rule is in there for archetypes since the worst feat in basically every archetype is the "dedication".

Like hypothetically, what's the best 5 dedications, 5 archetype feats character one could make if this weren't a rule?


Dubious Scholar wrote:

I just want to say that Thunderstrike is solid and blaster casters everywhere should enjoy it. 120' range, 9 damage/rank average (1d12 electric, 1d4 sonic), metal targets take a penalty on the reflex save, and are clumsy 1 for a round if they take any damage at all (i.e. on any result except critical success usually).

Also, am I reading this right that focus points are now uncapped? (It just says you have focus points equal to focus spells known. Some classes can learn a LOT of focus spells. Looking at Monk and Cleric especially there)

I caught that and came to ask the same thing.


Laclale♪ wrote:
core preview PDF wrote:

Formerly, dedication feats for archetypes listed a note you need to take two other feats from the archetype before taking a new dedication feat. Those rules are now in the rules for the trait itself.

Any archetypes that intentionally left room for exceptions—such as some archetypes that count feats from other archetypes toward this number—might get errata closer to the release of the final books.

Flexible Spellcaster Dedication needs errata then.
Preview Document wrote:

Dedication Feats

Formerly, dedication feats for archetypes listed a special entry to note you need to take two other feats from the archetype before taking a new dedication feat. Those rules are now in the rules for the trait itself. This makes them consistent and avoids needing to include repetitive text. Any archetypes that intentionally left room for exceptions—such as some archetypes that count feats from other archetypes toward this number—might get errata closer to the release of the final books.

Wizard's School and Curriculum Spells becomes basically just like a "sorcerer bloodline" but that reserves a spell slot for them. In general it don't change too much from old school system it just becomes more strict. :(

I hope we get some more benefits for wizard as compensation.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
PossibleCabbage wrote:

I'm honestly not totally sure why the "2 other feats" rule is in there for archetypes since the worst feat in basically every archetype is the "dedication".

Like hypothetically, what's the best 5 dedications, 5 archetype feats character one could make if this weren't a rule?

There are a handful of archetypes that... I'm not sure strongest is the right word, but frontload their benefits.

Stuff like Sentinel, Acrobat, and the weapon proficiency archetypes would feel really good if you didn't have to scrounge around to exit them later.

Maybe some archetypes like Dandy or Archaeologist that give you two expert trainings for taking the dedication.


Dubious Scholar wrote:
Also, am I reading this right that focus points are now uncapped? (It just says you have focus points equal to focus spells known. Some classes can learn a LOT of focus spells. Looking at Monk and Cleric especially there)

This was a great news IMO. Now focus spells is a thing since the beginning. Many new builds possibilities are available now. Also frees lvl 12 and lvl 18 feats. I liked that now lvl 12 refocus feat now fully recharge the pool in 10 minutes.

I'm bit worried that the preview document didn't explain what happened to vocal part of spellcasting.

Meteor Storm (now Falling Stars) now allows you to choose damage type what's pretty cool and useful!

Figment is a new cantrip that substitute Ghost Sound but now also can create visual illusions a got a mechanical function when you do it to Create a Diversion with +2 circumstance bonus. Making this cantrip way more useful.

Fire Shield was greatly improved to also makes the caster immune to environmental cold and no more auto-damages non-reach melee creatures that hits you with melee attacks but instead gives a Rise a Shield action to get +1 circumstance to AC, hardness 10, 40 HP (without BT) and when you choose Shield Block with it is where it gives the fire damage. This makes the spell less action economic but at same time makes it more protective. But didn't explain what happens when shield HP goes to 0. The spell ends?

Cone of Cold (now Howling Blizzard) becomes weaker being now 10d6 instead of 12d6 but also now allows to be casted as 3-actions turning it into basically a cold "fire ball". Both versions also makes the AoE a difficult terrain until the end of your next turn.


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This does seem to confirm that good clerics lose their options to be friendly with holy spells. Since spirit damage hits anything with a brain, and sanctified just does bonus damage against things weak to holy/unholy.

(previously one of the benefits of an all-good party was that the divine casters could fling around good damage without it hitting their friends, but sanctified seems to only be something cleric and maybe other divine casters can do, and even then it doesn't sound like it provides any resistance or immunity to spirit damage or sanctified spells)


Karneios wrote:
My feeling from seeing cantrips in rage of elements not have it was right, produce flame/ignition has lost its spell mod damage just getting one more base dice in exchange so I'm willing to bet that's gonna be the general case on cantrips which feels bad to me

Ignition changes mades it more interesting for Magus and Melee druids. Loose the attribute bonus for another dice hurts long-range casters little but benefit the melee ranged casters a lot once they now get a d6 dmg non-physical option to spellstrike.

Wish like spells (Wish, Alter Reality...) now becomes one single and simple spell called Manifestation. Also they nerfed it removing the "Produce any effect whose power level is in line with the above effects." and "Reverse certain effects that refer to the wish spell." also is no more possible to cast uncommon and rare spells using it by default.

Magic Fang is now Runic Body and is present in all traditions not only to primal and Magic Weapon is now Runic Weapon and is present in primal tradition too also they know can be heightened to rank 6 and 9 improving the rune effects.

See Invisibility is now See the Unseen and not only allows to see invisible thing but also incorporeal creatures even when phased into an object. Also gives +2 status bonus to disbelieve.

Longstrider now calls Tailwind and have Air trait.

Taglefoot cantrip now calls Tagle Vine and got Wood trait.

There's a new lvl 1 Thunderstrike spell that due the description I believe that is changing Shocking Grasp to it. Instead of being 2d12 melee attack spell it's 1d12 + 1d4 sonic 120 range basic reflex save and gives -1 to this save if the target is a metal armor and becomes clumsy 1 for 1 round. Also have one of the best damage heightened, increasing +1d12 electricity and +1d4 sonic per rank making it probably the best anti-boss spell now.

Storm of Vengeance is now Wrathful Storm has a bit greater area and does cold damage instead of acid and mix it with concealed and difficult terrain in this same effect and there no more deafened effect instead it allows to create a tornado to throw the 40 feet upward.


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Wish is now a lvl 10 rare ritual that costs 100,000 gp that requires that all casters are legendary and is now a bit tricky. If you wish riches for example it can gives your the treasure of other people.


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Just a heads-up, according to Luis Loza on Discord, focus points are still capped at 3.

-

While I appreciate the new presentation, I find the change to Mesmerizing Opal weird. Wasn't the intention to buff talismans, because nobody was using them? Because unlike before, you can now only use it with the basic Feint action, nothing else. Which is a massive nerf.


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Karmagator wrote:
Just a heads-up, according to Luis Loza on Discord, focus points are still capped at 3.

also here in the rules forum

Scarab Sages

Karneios wrote:
Karmagator wrote:
Just a heads-up, according to Luis Loza on Discord, focus points are still capped at 3.
also here in the rules forum

Ah, that one is annoying. I was thinking we could probably get away with 4 for sure.


Can someone clarify this on blazing bolt for me:

Core Preview wrote:

For each additional action you use when Casting the Spell, you can fire an additional ray at a different target, to a maximum of three rays targeting three different targets for 3 actions. These attacks each increase your multiple attack penalty, but you don’t increase your multiple attack penalty until after you make all the spell attack rolls for blazing bolt.

If you spend 2 or more actions Casting the Spell, the damage increases to 4d6 fire damage on a hit, and it still deals double damage on a critical hit…

Does this mean that if you fire two or more rays (by using two or three actions to Cast the spell, you do more dice damage per ray?


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OceanshieldwolPF 2.5 wrote:

Can someone clarify this on blazing bolt for me:

Core Preview wrote:

For each additional action you use when Casting the Spell, you can fire an additional ray at a different target, to a maximum of three rays targeting three different targets for 3 actions. These attacks each increase your multiple attack penalty, but you don’t increase your multiple attack penalty until after you make all the spell attack rolls for blazing bolt.

If you spend 2 or more actions Casting the Spell, the damage increases to 4d6 fire damage on a hit, and it still deals double damage on a critical hit…

Does this mean that if you fire two or more rays (by using two or three actions to Cast the spell, you do more dice damage per ray?

Yes, that's basically scorching ray with a new name.


Am I reading Falling Stars correctly that you could in theory make each star it's own damage type and deal 54d6+6d10 damage to a single target?

Also: still hoping Electric Arc gets nerfed in the re-master.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
FlySkyHigh wrote:

Am I reading Falling Stars correctly that you could in theory make each star it's own damage type and deal 54d6+6d10 damage to a single target?

Also: still hoping Electric Arc gets nerfed in the re-master.

It's looking more and more like they will nerf it right along all the other cantrips. Among other changes, it appears that cantrips no longer add your casting ability attribute to damage.

There are also concerns in this community that the wizard class might become even more limited and bland (while retaining all its prior problems) in the Remaster as well.

It looks like Paizo might be taking a "make things weaker to balance them" stance rather than the more practical "bring things up to the same level" strategy.


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FlySkyHigh wrote:

Am I reading Falling Stars correctly that you could in theory make each star it's own damage type and deal 54d6+6d10 damage to a single target?

You are not reading it correctly.


Ravingdork wrote:
FlySkyHigh wrote:

Am I reading Falling Stars correctly that you could in theory make each star it's own damage type and deal 54d6+6d10 damage to a single target?

Also: still hoping Electric Arc gets nerfed in the re-master.

It's looking more and more like they will nerf it right along all the other cantrips. Among other changes, it appears that cantrips no longer add your casting ability attribute to damage.

There are also concerns in this community that the wizard class might become even more limited and bland (while retaining all its prior problems) in the Remaster as well.

It looks like Paizo might be taking a "make things weaker to balance them" stance rather than the more practical "bring things up to the same level" strategy.

Sad. Personally there were very few things I ever truly felt were deserving of a "nerf", and off the top of my head Electric Arc was literally the only one I could say without digging back through the entire system.

Hopefully the remaster stuff gets fixed after seeing the community responses, but we'll see.

Xenocrat wrote:
FlySkyHigh wrote:

Am I reading Falling Stars correctly that you could in theory make each star it's own damage type and deal 54d6+6d10 damage to a single target?

You are not reading it correctly.

Ah, yep. Just went and re-read it instead of just processing at a speed read. Good shout.


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Caster damage going down is a real head scratcher. Tier 1 was already the heaviest struggle for casters (and where I saw the most complaints from my players). I agree with the rest and hope for clarifying information that makes this seem less punishing.

Dark Archive

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I think, at this point, I basically just want to see what the whole of the Wizard looks like.


FlySkyHigh wrote:

Am I reading Falling Stars correctly that you could in theory make each star it's own damage type and deal 54d6+6d10 damage to a single target?

Also: still hoping Electric Arc gets nerfed in the re-master.

Nope. The text says "choose for the falling stars (plural) to be airbursts (plural), asteroids (plural), comets (plural)..."

The choice clearly applies to all stars.

Horizon Hunters

This is certainly a heavy blow for low tier spellcasters. I expect a huge reaction from the community because of this and I believe it was largely unnecesary. You could've just adjusted the range of the arc (in electric arc) to be 10 ft from the first target or something and be done with it.

I know the changes are irrelevant when you add the math into it at higher levels, but my point here is that low level spellcasters now will feel really useless to play.

Horizon Hunters

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WWHsmackdown wrote:
Caster damage going down is a real head scratcher. Tier 1 was already the heaviest struggle for casters (and where I saw the most complaints from my players). I agree with the rest and hope for clarifying information that makes this seem less punishing.

It makes no sense to me. I guess casters will be expected to cast magic weapon on their own ranged weapons now for 2 fights and then go pew pew with 2 action 2d4 attacks ... and for that you're far better just using your bow and 16 dex from afar instead.


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I think we should wait until the actual book is out before we claim doom and gloom for casters. Like if they gave casters something like a Gate Attenuator for +2 to hit and DCs, then reducing the damage of spells *is* reasonable.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Again, Rage of the Elements has a 3d4 piercing, 60 foot range cantrip which can trigger metal weakness, and is available to every tradition. That's a buff over most any cantrip but electric arc. All casters will have a reliable damage option. Ignition may not be a good choice for a go to attack, but if you're packing Needle Darts you'll likely be fine.

It seems like they are trying to carve out a niche for each cantrip besides a critical effect.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
- Ed - wrote:

This is certainly a heavy blow for low tier spellcasters.

Is it? Produce Flame losing ranged damage is weird and sucks, but it's not like that was our first choice for ranged damage anyways and Needle Darts (which is a remaster spell) does more damage than pre-remaster produce anyways.


Squiggit wrote:
Needle Darts (which is a remaster spell) does more damage than pre-remaster produce anyways.

It can trigger weakness to skymetal if caster has correspond material also

But can that trigger some skymetal's precious property, like noqual's stupefied/spell defense penetration or abysium's sickened/poison or inubrix's metal ignorance?

Horizon Hunters

Squiggit wrote:
- Ed - wrote:

This is certainly a heavy blow for low tier spellcasters.

Is it? Produce Flame losing ranged damage is weird and sucks, but it's not like that was our first choice for ranged damage anyways and Needle Darts (which is a remaster spell) does more damage than pre-remaster produce anyways.

Let's hope something comes out and makes my worries go away. There is always hope they say...


- Ed - wrote:
Squiggit wrote:
- Ed - wrote:

This is certainly a heavy blow for low tier spellcasters.

Is it? Produce Flame losing ranged damage is weird and sucks, but it's not like that was our first choice for ranged damage anyways and Needle Darts (which is a remaster spell) does more damage than pre-remaster produce anyways.
Let's hope something comes out and makes my worries go away. There is always hope they say...

They do say hope is the last thing to die...

It was also one of the great evils trapped in Pandora's box.


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Its a bit concerning to some of my players but until we get the full picture its wait and see for my games and players.

Tom


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
- Ed - wrote:
Squiggit wrote:
- Ed - wrote:

This is certainly a heavy blow for low tier spellcasters.

Is it? Produce Flame losing ranged damage is weird and sucks, but it's not like that was our first choice for ranged damage anyways and Needle Darts (which is a remaster spell) does more damage than pre-remaster produce anyways.
Let's hope something comes out and makes my worries go away. There is always hope they say...

I mean it's not really a matter of hope when the option already exists.


... If errataed to 1 less action, we can spellshape to fix that issue.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Squiggit wrote:
- Ed - wrote:
Squiggit wrote:
- Ed - wrote:

This is certainly a heavy blow for low tier spellcasters.

Is it? Produce Flame losing ranged damage is weird and sucks, but it's not like that was our first choice for ranged damage anyways and Needle Darts (which is a remaster spell) does more damage than pre-remaster produce anyways.
Let's hope something comes out and makes my worries go away. There is always hope they say...
I mean it's not really a matter of hope when the option already exists.

Right?


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Until I remember the things we get in the Gen Con was:

  • Leshys and orcs are no more uncommon
  • There's no order and chaos lineages in Nephelins (it's looks like the designers is silently abandoning the order/chaos support)
  • Holy/Unholy allows to some spells like heal to hurt the oposite santified creature is more well balanced than alighment because those who uses holy automatically have some vulnerability to some unholy spells.
  • Some unholy/holy spells are ajusted to works from celestials/fiends to holy/unholy. Chilling Darkness for example will deals the extra 5d6 spirit damage if the target is unholy (no more only vs fiends). But this isn't the default it's explicity declared into the spell.
  • Remover Curse/Disiese/Poison as merged into a single spell.
  • They didn't clarified how verbal part of the spells will work. I'm afrait that this could be really removed.
  • The Golarion lore was moved to GM Core
  • GM Core don't get nothign really new. Just some ajustments in subsystems

    If do you remember another thing please post bellow incrementing the changes list.


  • Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

    I thought monitors were mentioned in Nepheline options.


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    Clerics no longer need Charisma!

    Divine Font just gives them +4 Slots of their highest level for Heal/Harm (depending on their Font choice, just like pre-master).

    And those slots actually scale! They go up to 5 bonus slots at level 5 and to 6 bonus slots at level 15!

    _______________

    Also, Magical Shorthand now turns Learn a Spell success into Crit Success, effectively allowing you to learn all spells at half price.

    I might just give that to wizards as bonus feat at level 1.


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    Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

    The new witch familiar abilities are a mixed bag, but include some really good options. They activate when you cast or sustain a hex, not a spell. Also everything is extremely flavorful.

    Fervor/Faith's Flamekesper: grants an ally 2+half your level temp HP for the round within 15 feet of your familiar. Great buff to your Frontline, awesome synergy for Stoke the Heart.

    Rune/the Inscribed Ones: familiar can flank.

    Fortune/Spinner of Threads: grants either a +1 or -1 status to AC to a target within 15 feet. This is just good.

    Blizzard/Silence in Snow: your familiar generates a 5 foot burst of difficult terrain. Not very impressive, but does have synergy with clinging ice.

    Curse/the Resentment: 15 foot range, Prolong the Duration of any negative conditions on the target by one round.

    Shadow/Starless Shadow: if your familiar is adjacent to an enemy to which its concealed, hidden, or undetected, the enemy becomes frightened one. This has potential but I haven't thought through all the ways you can apply concealment yet. If you can get it going consistently without wasting actions, you have a mini Dirge of Doom on your hands.

    Wild/Wildling Steward: familiar gains your choice of an imprecise scent, tremorsense, or wavesense, with a range of 60 feet until the start of your next turn, and it can immediately Point Out as a free action. A good combat niche to bust out, but what really makes it is the scouting potential.

    A lot hinges on whether hexes have changed, both specifically and in general. (Like ditching the one minute immunity cool down.) And how bad losing your familiar hurts. (It's not likely to be directly targeted, but even if it is you can make that a tactical win. AoE is the big danger.) But there's some great potential here. If the familiar is too fragile I'd consider snagging an archetype focus spell so you can refocus without it.

    Also some great new feats I ran of time to post.

    Silver Crusade

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    Captain Morgan wrote:
    I thought monitors were mentioned in Nepheline options.

    They are, there was just no Chaos/Law Lineages shown though, assuming that means Paizo is abandoning Ganzi is jus that, an assumption.

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