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Okay, so... as many of us know, the devs said that the Continuing the Campaign segment of Stolen Fate #3 would contain hints for the upcoming adventure paths. SF3 comes out in under two hours, and one of those upcoming hints has gotten some discussion over the past little while, so I thought I'd go ahead and get the ball rolling. These are my thoughts. Please add yours should you care to do so.
Here we go!
1) Two great powers declare war, and many neighbors have to pick sides. If this happens in the Inner Sea, it's either Andoran/Cheliax or Geb/Nex. This is the one that has gotten some discussion. I still lean Geb/Nex because there has been more build up, but many persuasive arguments have been made for Andoran/Cheliax. The hints aren't in chronological order (more on that as it becomes relevant), so if we get sourcebooks for Old Cheliax or the Shining Kingdoms, it will become more likely. It will be almost certain should we get both.
2) Great legacies reclaimed when they were thought lost. This is generic enough that it could be anything... but we have a description of the very next adventure path. I am confident that this refers to Sky King's Tomb. See what I said about the hints not being in chronological order?
3) The return of great evils thought lost to time. Again, this is generic enough that it could be anything. It even describes any number of 1e APs! I am looking forward to find exactly what it entails.
4) The sun destroyed. This one made my eyes pop, because the exact sentence is "(The Stolen Fate PCs) see the sun destroyed (when/if they do the Harrow reading with the full Deck of Destiny)." If this actually happens, it will make it the highest stake AP we have had yet because it affects the entire solar system. I think we're either going to 20, going Mythic, or both. The villain could be any combination of Tar-Baphon, Zon-Kuthon, or the Dominion of the Black.
5) Beloved mortal entertainers make some deities laugh with delight, but others consume them and choke them with cruelty. This sounds like we (the players) are either caught in a struggle between gods or have to protect people who are caught in a struggle between gods. I'm very intrigued. This sounds like a relatively low stakes story, but the divine aspect means that any level of character can realistically be involved. Which evil god/s has/have no sense of humour?
6) They see countless spirits shrieking in agony. Between this hint, the focus on nature in the next year or so, and the Rivethun in Highhelm, I think we're getting a Shaman class playtest in the near future. It may even be set in Highhelm and involve the Rivethun.
7) Old gods fall and new gods rise in their place. A few months ago I would have said "this can only mean Ibyldos because anything but the Hero Gods would have too big an impact on the setting, which means we're getting a Mythic playtest in the next couple summers." That could still very easily be the case. However... we were recently introduced to a new category of deity who periodically die and are replaced: the Wardens of the Wild. And we are getting a sourcebook whose narrative hook is about finding these beings. And the Remaster is focusing on the nature classes. I think we're taking a ride on the Zoetrope and teaming up with the crew. And a very large number of us will be romancing them, because that's what we do and we all know it.
8) A pale cataclysm ravages the lands, leaving corruption and tangled thorns in its wake. A group of tangled thorns is called a briar, and we know what that means. Our boy Treerazer is about to make his play for full demon lord status. He may or may not have an ally in Tar-Baphon, who would benefit from the living being weakened and who would have a vested interest in getting a dangerous rival off of Golarion.
9) A humble village grows where there was nothing before. This could be a low level, low stakes version of Kingmaker, different in scope but with much of what made that AP a hit. That is a definite possibility. However, Season of Ghosts will be set about a hundred years in the past, and in what sounds like a humble village. We know that Something Weird is going on, and themes of time are baked into the story. I could be grasping at straws, but I think that Willowshore is about to take a very strange trip into the most foreign country of all: the future.
10) An immense red bird rains fire on a small town. We saw pictures of Sandpoint on fire at PaizoCon. This is almost certainly Seven Dooms for Sandpoint.
11) Ultimate power within the grasp of almost countless hands. "Ultimate power" is either an artifact of some kind, or it's something else. Both are possible, but the "something else" is more intriguing. Electricity could describe that, and Guns & Gears made a point of saying that Irrisen basically has it. Ever wonder what effect magic might have on the Industrial Revolution? We might just find out. (The other contender would be something from Silver Mount, and many of us have clamored for more time in Numeria...)
12) New lands rise from the ashes of ancient civilizations. I think that this is about the Shory Empire and Kho. The web fiction we got around the Mwangi Expanse sourcebook and Strength of Thousands revealed that Azure Leopard is still alive, and if she is there's no reason to think that Black Heron isn't as well. We also have the automatons, an entire ancestry created by the Shory and who may have its secrets still in their minds. The rise of a new land of Shory inheritors would have implications for all of northern Garund, and in time beyond. (The other major contender I can think of is some serious work done in Sarkoris, or maybe something with the Azlanti archipelago)
13) A crowned phoenix with a peacock tail, whose return heralds vengeance upon the world. It's Xanderghul. It's definitely Xanderghul. James Jacobs revealed that he isn't as dead as we had believed, and as a semi-divine illusionist there are any number of ways he could have survived what we thought was his death. Plus, that description squares really well with what his spirit was described as becoming after the final blow was struck. And he's on the cover of GM Core. And a Runelore AP would be the perfect opportunity to introduce the Runelord wizard schools. So will he be a god, a ridiculously powerful archmage, or something else? Let's find out!
And those are the hints! Shall we begin?
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Very small point of order: the Shory are masters of aeromancy, but the Automatons are a creation of the Jistka Imperium, an ancient nation in what is now Rahadoum and western Thuvia. Otherwise, we're pretty synced up on these!
I think the "ultimate power" hint is either the big political Something in the Inner Sea that I think Erik Mona was alluding to during PaizoCon, or perhaps else something flirting with divine (mythic?) power.
The obvious Treerazer clue makes me want to jump up and down.
Is there any chance the red bird is the Ruby Phoenix?
Entertainment, delight, and cruelty all intertwined smells like Shelyn and Zon-Kuthon to me.
I still maintain that the war won't be Geb/Nex, because both Outlaws of Alkenstar and Blood Lords were about preserving the status quo in the region. While the absence of an 11-20 Nex AP to round out the trio feels obvious, and the archmage's return foreshadowed to hell and back, I don't know how they can tell that story without it betraying groups who've played those two to completion. "You bought another 18 months of peace" isn't a satisfying pay-off to an Adventure Path, IMO.
"The sun destroyed" could refer instead to a solar deity - my gut instinct is that this is a deliberate fake-out, and refers to finally humbling Walkena, a sun god grown wrathful and cruel. Strength of Thousands all but explicitly told us to wait patiently for a Bright Lions AP.
Pick whatever clue you want and don't have an obvious answer for - I'm deluding myself into thinking that one's about the Sarkoris Scar, I promise you.
A quick note I'd make, the shory did not make the automatons, they were made by the artificer conclave, group of people that got together near the end of jistka imperium, the only shory note on them that I see/know of is that there are increased reports of them in southern garund originating from a nation that does a lot with mixing magic and technology including stuff from the shory crash site within their borders
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I really fear that the "Sun destroyed" is not meant as directly "the Sun", but rather the sun goddess, i.e. Saranrae (or maybe Shizuru...). I'd hate for Saranrae to get the axe, she is my favorite deity in the entire setting.
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I would love it if the Sun destroyed refers to Walkena. I've wanted that AP since Strength of Thousands.
I own the Shory/Jistka mixup. Thanks for correcting me. I knew I was forgetting an ancient empire when I listed them to myself.
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I'm curious as to how Xanderghul will return, wasn't he fed to The Bound Prince/The Eclipse of Abaddon?
I wonder if his return will also herald the revival of the First/Fifth Horseman?
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I'm curious as to how Xanderghul will return, wasn't he fed to The Bound Prince/The Eclipse of Abaddon?
I wonder if his return will also herald the revival of the First/Fifth Horseman?
This just feeds in to my longstanding "there will be an Abaddon related AP in 2e" theory I've had since I noticed some weird focus on the First Horseman in stuff. I could probably dig up what I wrote...
This just feeds in to my longstanding "there will be an Abaddon related AP in 2e" theory I've had since I noticed some weird focus on the First Horseman in stuff. I could probably dig up what I wrote...I'm curious as to how Xanderghul will return, wasn't he fed to The Bound Prince/The Eclipse of Abaddon?
I wonder if his return will also herald the revival of the First/Fifth Horseman?
My boyfriend and I have been wanting an Abaddon/First Horseman AP for years now.
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6) They see countless spirits shrieking in agony. Between this hint, the focus on nature in the next year or so, and the Rivethun in Highhelm, I think we're getting a Shaman class playtest in the near future. It may even be set in Highhelm and involve the Rivethun.
I get where you are going with that (and it would be cool)... but this seems like a bit of a reach to say it must be Rivethun. There are lots of other ways to interpret that and there are many, many spirits on Golarion.
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But the death of Walkena, in my opinion, is a bad option. One of the achievements in Strength of Thousands was negotiations with him. Now they, for obvious reasons, would become unnecessary.
Strength of Thousands all but said your trip to Mzali was about harm reduction, and that a rebellion storyline would be told elsewhere. Let the Old Sun Gods return!
This thread is glorious.
Will we get any reveals to these at GenCon?
Creative Director
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This thread is glorious.Will we get any reveals to these at GenCon?
Not really. My intent at the moment is to wait until after all of a particular Adventure Path's volumes are out before confirming if that one was hinted at among these visions, so as to not spoil things to much and to keep things mysterious and intriguing longer.
Some of them will be obvious. And there's certainly a potential that some of the visions are referring to the same Adventure Path—some Adventure Paths have more than one way they can alter the future, after all!
ALL of these visions, though, are referencing a potential Adventure Path or standalone adventure that I've had on the to-do list or were already in production at the time I developed that section many months ago. There may well be some adventures coming out sooner or later that I didn't anticipate or even know we'd do, so these visions don't specifically match up to the next 13 we're doing.
Have fun guessing in the meantime! :-)
I'm curious as to how Xanderghul will return, wasn't he fed to The Bound Prince/The Eclipse of Abaddon?
I wonder if his return will also herald the revival of the First/Fifth Horseman?
But I'm working purely by memory, so I might have made a mistake in my recollection.
** spoiler omitted **I'm curious as to how Xanderghul will return, wasn't he fed to The Bound Prince/The Eclipse of Abaddon?
I wonder if his return will also herald the revival of the First/Fifth Horseman?
Check Rise of New Thassilon pgs. 23 - 25
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This thread is glorious.
The highest praise there is.
Should this be in a different subforum? It relies on an AP spoiler and is speculating about Adventures and APs in the future.
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Check Rise of New Thassilon pgs. 23 - 25** spoiler omitted **I'm curious as to how Xanderghul will return, wasn't he fed to The Bound Prince/The Eclipse of Abaddon?
I wonder if his return will also herald the revival of the First/Fifth Horseman?
That's what I get for going by memory alone. ;)
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Something I thought I would add is a development that has happened in PFS2 4-15 In Glorious Battle. Massive Spoilers for the ending:
Mahja's diety is Sarenrae so if she wins this could cover both the sun being destroyed or a new god rising in the place of an old god. This would be a massive shakeup in the entire Lost Omens storyline and Im not sure if a small scenario could hold so much weight? It is written by Luis Loza however...
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oh WOW I didnt know that! That is awesome!!
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I will just say one thing about that not-so-little spoiler.
** spoiler omitted **
jumping up and down
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We have new information? We have new information! Let's just punch that into the machine...
The return of a great evil lost to time (#3) is very likely also referring to Uvaglor (the likeliest candidate for the bird in #10) or ol' Xanderghul (#13). Maybe both!
keftiu among others did a lot to convince me that the comment about the sun's destruction (#4) also describes the fall of old gods and the rise of new ones (#7). The use of the plural in the first part of the sentence would therefore be a fakeout, and it's just Walkena that finally gets deposed. It is a perfectly acceptable theory, one I think I love as much as my Wardens of the Wild idea, but then Luis Loza had to come along and throw in yet another possibility to muddy the waters. As it stands, the orcish pantheon isn't that great for a core PC ancestry. None of the non-malevolent orcish gods we know to be worshipped by orcs are orcs themselves (not in the way that dwarven and elven gods are dwarves and elves, I mean). However: should some of the malevolent orcish gods be replaced by heroic orcs, you get more diversity of character among orcish deities (and also hopefully of gender). This can only be a win, and I think I love this idea as much as the other two. (Not as much as I'd love getting all three, because I am a shamelessly greedy wretch in some respects and I freely admit it)
The hint about the entertainers (#5) is more likely to be an adventure than an adventure path. APs tend to have higher stakes than adventures when level is factored in, and this seems feels like the latter.
(And now that I said this, I now somewhat expect this hint to have a plot point or two that will have major ramifications for years to come)
And in more general ideas: the fact that there are other adventures/adventure paths in the pipeline makes this all so much better, because we are now uncertain. That keeps the speculation going. Furthermore, I wonder about the length of the APs. We have been in a 3 and 6 for some time now, with Season of Ghosts breaking the pattern so that Seven Dooms for Sandpoint could be its own thing as it is #200. That said, I wonder just how wedded we'll be to old patterns. They have already told us that APs won't be confined to 1-20, 1-10 or 11-20 anymore. There's definitely room to play with length as well. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there was a year that gave us three 4-part APs, for example.
That's what I get for going by memory alone. ;)Check Rise of New Thassilon pgs. 23 - 25** spoiler omitted **I'm curious as to how Xanderghul will return, wasn't he fed to The Bound Prince/The Eclipse of Abaddon?
I wonder if his return will also herald the revival of the First/Fifth Horseman?
Sorshen is my favorite Runelord for her story but Xanderghul is my favorite Runelord for a Villain, and I've soaked up all the Lore and knowledge I can find on him.
And I've been desperately wanting an AP that ends with The First Horseman awakening, and when those two characters where mention together in the same AP. I committed it to memory.
It had to have had some significance. And now I wait for some sign or hint that this is coming. And then the Deck of Destiny revealed this eminent Harrowing.
I am beyond giddy!
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11. Made me think of the Starstone. But why "almost countless hands" rather than just "countless hands" ?
Hands that have been already counted ?
Do we know of people that are carefully counted ? Maybe all those who attempted the Starstone Test ?
I can't help but think of that image with all these corpses raising their hand to reach the Starstone as they died.
Maybe the return of the Dead God's Hand adventure ?
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It's certainly possible. We have to remember that the truth about Razmir is almost completely out-of-character knowledge. The average Golarionite who encounters Razmirans in the wild isn't going to know or care about whether or not Razmir's divinity is true, because the thugs pummeling the crap out of them for tithes sure do, and that's what matters.
Razmir kind of has a problem when it comes to writing him for the game: the text has to unequivocally come out and say "He's a fraud at the top of a pyramid scheme religion, and he's looking for means to extend his life because he wants to keep the scam going" to make it clear that those are the kinds of stories Razmir and his cult/kingdom are meant to be used in. But that creates the risk where players and GMs forget that their PCs and NPCs aren't supposed to know that and roleplay them like the central lie of Razmir's faith is common knowledge, rather than a secret Razmir's inner circle will literally kill people to keep from getting our.
But on the flipside, if the writing on Razmir was more ambiguous, that leaves the door open for GMs to decide Razmir's actually a legit god, or that what his cult does is "not that bad" if they took a more Eberron approach and said "maybe he is, maybe he isn't, but his followers believe he is and that gives them legitimacy." The writers have to walk that tightrope carefully, and likewise the players and GM have to remember that just because they know the answer to the mystery, they have to play out their characters solving it.
1) Two great powers declare war, and many neighbors have to pick sides.
Geb vs. Nex has been teased since the beginning and there were murmurs about it during paizocon.
As for neighbors taking sides, everyone will side with Nex.
Are Galt and Cheliax too far from the conflict?
I can't see any of the neighbors siding with Geb.
Katapesh is a staunch ally of Nex, Mzali is an isolationist state, Holomog is enemies with Geb, Taldor and Qadira have no reason to get involved.
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1) Two great powers declare war, and many neighbors have to pick sides.
Geb vs. Nex has been teased since the beginning and there were murmurs about it during paizocon.
As for neighbors taking sides, everyone will side with Nex.
Are Galt and Cheliax too far from the conflict?
I can't see any of the neighbors siding with Geb.
Katapesh is a staunch ally of Nex, Mzali is an isolationist state, Holomog is enemies with Geb, Taldor and Qadira have no reason to get involved.
Gebbite grain feeds many across the Inner Sea; that's a powerful motivator. It's also an interesting wrinkle that if Nex returns and immediately destroys several millennia of peace with an invasion, him being the belligerent is likely to piss off a whole lot of people that might otherwise be friends of the Nexian state.
That said, I think this is all another argument against a Geb/Nex war. A conflict where many nations have to take sides is a much better fix for an Avistani brawl.
*casts Revive Thread*
So it's been a couple months, and we've had new developments.
#2 is Sky King's Tomb, and it seems like #9 is indeed Season of Ghosts (but not at all the way I thought it would be, no-- much better!).
War of Immortals gives new context to #4 - #7. I don't think that they will all be a part of the same adventure path, but as part of the same event. And #4 makes me fear for Sarenrae. I hope hers isn't the death that sticks, should my fears be grounded.
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*casts Revive Thread*
So it's been a couple months, and we've had new developments.
#2 is Sky King's Tomb, and it seems like #9 is indeed Season of Ghosts (but not at all the way I thought it would be, no-- much better!).
War of Immortals gives new context to #4 - #7. I don't think that they will all be a part of the same adventure path, but as part of the same event. And #4 makes me fear for Sarenrae. I hope hers isn't the death that sticks, should my fears be grounded.
I’m 50/50 on if it’s Sarenrae or Walkena now. Howl of the Wild seemingly enables some Casmaron fun in 2024, so that lends towards Sarenrae being in the spotlight somewhere, but I do still think the Bright Lions AP is something we’ll see before 2e wraps.
Hell, we’ve even had mythic rules confirmed since this thread died down! Who better to serve the Old Sun Gods than some blessed heroes?
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Popping into this thread to mention that Highhelm hints that Andoran is seeking weaponry, specifically siege weaponry for an unspecified purpose.
That on top of numerous other hints across the Lost Omens books genuinely makes me believe the two great powers are Cheliax and Andoran.
There is also developments hinting towards an upcoming combat with Treerazer in there as folks have noted though I had thought the briars referred to the Warden of the Wilds AP.
Also pretty sure #6 was meant to reference Season of Ghosts.
11. Meanwhile has my mind going to one thing first and foremost: The Starstone. We know now there is going to be War Amongst the Gods, one or more are dying/getting uspered, but what if something occurs in this divine upheaval, that allows the Cathedral to be *much* more accessible. Plus there is a plot point from the Absalom guide that has had me chomping at the bit for some time.
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Popping into this thread to mention that Highhelm hints that Andoran is seeking weaponry, specifically siege weaponry for an unspecified purpose.
That on top of numerous other hints across the Lost Omens books genuinely makes me believe the two great powers are Cheliax and Andoran.
There is also developments hinting towards an upcoming combat with Treerazer in there as folks have noted though I had thought the briars referred to the Warden of the Wilds AP.
Also pretty sure #6 was meant to reference Season of Ghosts.
11. Meanwhile has my mind going to one thing first and foremost: The Starstone. We know now there is going to be War Amongst the Gods, one or more are dying/getting uspered, but what if something occurs in this divine upheaval, that allows the Cathedral to be *much* more accessible. Plus there is a plot point from the Absalom guide that has had me chomping at the bit for some time.
Last point agrees with my theory that somehow Razmir knows a great divine upheaval is coming and plans to take advantage of it to reach the Starstone.
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11. Made me think of the Starstone. But why "almost countless hands" rather than just "countless hands" ?
Hands that have been already counted ?
Do we know of people that are carefully counted ? Maybe all those who attempted the Starstone Test ?
I can't help but think of that image with all these corpses raising their hand to reach the Starstone as they died.
Maybe the return of the Dead God's Hand adventure ?
I think I read recently that many potential Starstone deities are imprisoned somewhere in Absalom. I think it ties very nicely with my old musings above about "almost countless hands".
1 is probably the new Wildwood AP. 2 is Sky King's Tomb. 5 is the Opera AP that got announced. 4 and 7 are Divine Mysteries related.
Honestly I think 8 can be mapped to the Wildwood AP, given we know that seems to involve a blight.
My Perceptions:
1. War between Andoran and Cheliax, as that has been gearing up in the background of the Lost Omens books for a while.
2. Was Sky King's Tomb
3. Maybe Seven Dooms, Maybe something else.
4. Possibly hinting at the death of Sarenrae, or this could be a call back to Doomsday Dawn because wasn't the plot there about the Dominion of the Black trying to consume the sun or some such??
5. Curtain Call
6. Season of Ghosts
7. The War of Immortals Event
8. Wardens of Wildwood
9. This one I am not honestly sure about.
10. Seven Dooms maybe
11. I think this is tied to the Starstone, due to other information regarding the Ashen Man, AND other info from the Absalom book
12. Unsure, but I am down for anything that reshapes the face of Golarion once again, but I would hope most for Sakoris/Azlanti stuff.
13. More Runelords Shenanigans, brought to you by Xhanderghul!
Doomsday Dawn was about Aucturn
Yes but the Dominion was involved, and wasn't the overarching plot something to do with the sun??
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Those hints Luis and I worked up for Stolen Fate were mostly intended to hint at upcoming Adventure Paths and less so standalone adventures, but the further along we go, the more things might change. Some plots might end up never being used, some might get transitioned to a standalone adventure or a PFS season or even as a lore-only story in the Rulebook or Lost Omen line. Still... fun to get them out there and see folks start connecting the dots!