Red Griffyn
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Red Griffyn wrote:Boomerangs are light bulk.aobst128 wrote:Bandolier only carries 2 bulk of items. Boomerang is 1 bulk. Only having 2 boomerangs won't really carry you anywhere.Red Griffyn wrote:There's the thrower's bandoliers too to avoid the rune tax if you wish. For a one handed thrown weapon, it seems a little overtuned to me with just how much range it has compared to other thrown weapons. The comparison to a shortbow is in regards to it's effective functionality. boomerang functions very similarly to a shortbow because of its range.aobst128 wrote:Boomerangs are fantastic just for that range. Basically a shortbow with returning. A little too good in my opinion.Its not. You're trading a 1D6 damage rune for ~+2 vs a propulsive weapon at L8+ (maybe +3 if you bump STR to 20 by L15). 2<3<1D6 damage, especially if you consider:
1.) doesn't work with blazons of shared power since it leaves your hand.
2.) 1D6 thrown is not as much damage as 1D8 thrown (i.e., isn't on the meta's heels here)
3.) Deadly D6-D10 on bows is worth a chunk of damage not on the boomerang
4.) Longbows/Horngali 1D8 bows already exist and are easily obtainable and do much more damage.
5.) Many elemental runes have crit effects like adding persistent damage.The only way around a returning rune right now is the blade ally with the champion. Thats really only available at L6 as a MC at the earliest and carries a bunch of 'now I'm a champion' baggage with it.
Yup my apologies! Could have sworn one of the early leaks had it at 1 bulk. Either that or my reading comprehension is getting worse as I get older.
Now you do need to pick up quick draw from somewhere, so for many classes it is still 2-3 feats to use well, but that does open it up more for rogues/rangers/gunslingers or dips into those classes.
Red Griffyn
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Anyways the list of cool things:
- All new monk weapons are viable selections with the reprinted Jalmeri Heavenseeker/flurry of blows. That includes a 1D8 flail, a 1d6/D8 deadly/propulsive bow with 100ft range, and many more. These can go on fighters/rangers/etc. for ways to increase damage.
- Falcata / Dorn Druegar are actually advanced weapons worth feats to take.
- Boomerang - mostly for thaumaturges MC into champion for returning or rogue for quickdraw.
- Fortress Shield for a STR Kobold Monk that dips into dragon disciple for the L4 AC fixer feat (1D10 strikes and better AC than champions for L4-7 and then on par from then on with that shield raised)
- Spell Striker Staff great. Something with true strike that also includes higher level acid arrows is nice.
- Skunk Bombs - great for perpetual infusions and the awful static DC makes them really only usable by alchemists with quick alchemy.
- Some really cool spell hearts like jyoti's feather which on a weapon is just giving you a disrupting rune (no need to cast spells). Obviously the electric arc one is great, but really good for monks who can cast EA, then flurry of blows with the 1d4 to 1d8 scaling added bonus (add in a ki-strike as well). Had me checking the talisman dabbler archetype to see what level I could put two talismans on one item (its really high level) to see if I could get multiple ones.
- Cassian helmet gives a +1 status bonus to AC and saves against evil creatures and effects. Probably will get nerfed, but until then its great.
- Many magical tattoos that are fun. The tooth and claw tattoo gives you a 1 minute alternate unarmed strike that lets you cycle to different damage types on what could easily be a bludgeoning/piercing/slashing only stance strike or w/e.
- All of the focus items (i.e., give a 1/day free focus point as a free action and are all around L11) are great. But the occult monk one looks like fun (once per day if you hit as a reaction you can suck out the enemies breath, leaving them unconscious for 1 round.
- The ursine avenger hood and the artifact archetype are all pretty cool. At L16 though the feat gives you a 1D12 jaw and a 1D8 'agile' claw which is the only 1d8 agile anything in the whole game. Also, I can bearly contain how unbearable I'd make it for everyone in my party with all the puns you can leverage. Every combat, bearing your arms, fixing a grizzly expression, and murdering enemies in a kodiak moment?
- The wand of teeming ghosts seems like a great combat opener. Just carry a bunch of the low level one, recast between combats, and open up with a L3 fear or demoralize.
- Librarian Staff - extra dimensional pocket for 50 books is pretty sweet. I could imagine someone having 'x' number of advanced translation books to give to the party face for the entire list of the game's languages.
- Many of the grimoires have fun effects. Draxie's recipe book is hilarious (literally a flavour item). The illuminated folio adds half spell level to resistance of summoned creatures for 1 extra action as metamagic (it is a L14 item though).
- Potion Patch is a great consumable to have for dungeoneering. Lets you give out potions to martials for key effects (e.g., backup healing, energy resistance, etc.) without fumbling with you're hands/items during combat.
There are easily 30-40 items I can envision doing something with on some build I have, and I'm sure that list will only grow.
| Gisher |
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Yup my apologies! Could have sworn one of the early leaks had it at 1 bulk. Either that or my reading comprehension is getting worse as I get older.
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I'd guess that your brain read the "1" for one-handed as a "1" for one bulk since the two columns are next to each other. I've done that frequently. :)
| Gisher |
Did anyone notice that in the description of the boomerang it says it comes back on a hit as well? Is that a typo, or does it really come back no matter what you do?
I think "successful" in the boomerang description is supposed to be "unsuccessful." That one change bring the boomerang description in line with the recovery weapon trait.
| Ravingdork |
The wand of teeming ghosts seems like a great combat opener. Just carry a bunch of the low level one, recast between combats, and open up with a L3 fear or demoralize.
It totally is! As it predates TV, I can confirm that this is the case. I had a long running sorcerer that would open up with Demoralize, use the wand's effect to boost it if I only succeeded at the check, then follow up with phantasmal killer. All in one tidy round.
It got their saves low enough to insta-kill them more often than you'd think.
| Candlejake |
Has no one mentioned the barricade buster yet? That thing is goated.
Right? that thing seems pretty damn strong. I mean yeah the volley trait in combination with the short range makes spacing a bit awkward but id say it is pretty realistic to be able to stay in that range.
Kickback and d10 make the damage pretty nice, and it got 8 round repeating.Weirdly seems to fit best with a sniper imo.
And because of the orc trait getting it down to martial proficiency is pretty easy via feats
| gesalt |
aobst128 wrote:Has no one mentioned the barricade buster yet? That thing is goated.Right? that thing seems pretty damn strong. I mean yeah the volley trait in combination with the short range makes spacing a bit awkward but id say it is pretty realistic to be able to stay in that range.
Kickback and d10 make the damage pretty nice, and it got 8 round repeating.
Weirdly seems to fit best with a sniper imo.And because of the orc trait getting it down to martial proficiency is pretty easy via feats
Generic longbow is about equal to it but has much better range, better crit spec and doesn't cost an ancestry feat to use. 30/100 volley might also be easier than 20/40 volley, though point blank shot removes the issue.
For gunslingers, it might be the new weapon of choice if you think you can manage volley and the shorter range.
However, gunslinger doesn't have point blank shot, and this doesn't interact with reload, so it is probably a better fighter weapon than a gunslinger weapon.
| aobst128 |
Candlejake wrote:aobst128 wrote:Has no one mentioned the barricade buster yet? That thing is goated.Right? that thing seems pretty damn strong. I mean yeah the volley trait in combination with the short range makes spacing a bit awkward but id say it is pretty realistic to be able to stay in that range.
Kickback and d10 make the damage pretty nice, and it got 8 round repeating.
Weirdly seems to fit best with a sniper imo.And because of the orc trait getting it down to martial proficiency is pretty easy via feats
Generic longbow is about equal to it but has much better range, better crit spec and doesn't cost an ancestry feat to use. 30/100 volley might also be easier than 20/40 volley, though point blank shot removes the issue.
For gunslingers, it might be the new weapon of choice if you think you can manage volley and the shorter range.
However, gunslinger doesn't have point blank shot, and this doesn't interact with reload, so it is probably a better fighter weapon than a gunslinger weapon.
Grabbing point blank shot from fighter multiclass on a vanguard would be ideal I think. The later firearm support feats on gunslinger are too good to pass up like stab and blast and blast tackle. This thing is probably the best use case for flesh wound too.
| QuidEst |
Is it true that the scribe robe takes 4-6 days to put a scroll into it?
Or am I misunderstanding and you don't actually or a scroll into it?
Well, it's supposed to be just a little better than the comfort trait (a difference of 14sp), so yeah, scroll robes require you to use the scribing rules. That's four days using the regular rules, and a decreasing amount of time from six days to an hour with the variant rules.
The magical version, Library Robes, explicitly calls out that the non-magical version uses the normal scribing process.
VampByDay
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base on the new crafting rule low level consumable can be craft with 2 hour
That's if you are high level crafting a low level item. Seems like maybe the best use for scribing robes are low-level utility spells that don't need to be scaled. A Heal spell just to get an ally up and not dying, the Locate spell . . . things that don't require saving throws but are still useful at low levels.
VampByDay
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VampByDay wrote:I did a thing. I'm not sure if I'm proud of it or not.Ooooh with pictures :)
Thanks, I had a good time using using heroforge to make all those characters.
| Guntermench |
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25speedforseaweedleshy wrote:base on the new crafting rule low level consumable can be craft with 2 hourThat's if you are high level crafting a low level item. Seems like maybe the best use for scribing robes are low-level utility spells that don't need to be scaled. A Heal spell just to get an ally up and not dying, the Locate spell . . . things that don't require saving throws but are still useful at low levels.
Always wear Feather Fall...just in case...
| shroudb |
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VampByDay wrote:Always wear Feather Fall...just in case...25speedforseaweedleshy wrote:base on the new crafting rule low level consumable can be craft with 2 hourThat's if you are high level crafting a low level item. Seems like maybe the best use for scribing robes are low-level utility spells that don't need to be scaled. A Heal spell just to get an ally up and not dying, the Locate spell . . . things that don't require saving throws but are still useful at low levels.
Meh you can get feather fall with talisman.
But an emergency mirror image or see invis sounds great on an armor...
| Tactical Drongo |
I am a little on the edge about the combination monk bows
wouldnt you still need monastic archer stance to use them and drop it every time you go into melee? (so: 2 actions to go back to firing it)
I also really love the advanced weapons...but I would love a way to be finally able to use some of them which are not racial without being a fighter
| aobst128 |
I am a little on the edge about the combination monk bows
wouldnt you still need monastic archer stance to use them and drop it every time you go into melee? (so: 2 actions to go back to firing it)
I also really love the advanced weapons...but I would love a way to be finally able to use some of them which are not racial without being a fighter
Monk has the efficiency to pull that off at least. The mikazuki is weird though since it's reload 1 so it doesn't interact with flurry while in archer stance. I think it's meant to be reload 0 like the bow staff since otherwise, it's just worse except for being a flail.
| graystone |
wouldnt you still need monastic archer stance to use them and drop it every time you go into melee? (so: 2 actions to go back to firing it)
What about holding a bow makes them unable to kick? Or punch with their off hand not holding the bow [they have hands 1+]?
EDIT: Or do you mean drop the stance? If so, yes but why would you get into melee? The monk gets a bonus in speed and is must able to stay out of melee plus they can just shoot someone at melee range unless an AoO in involved.
| aobst128 |
Tactical Drongo wrote:wouldnt you still need monastic archer stance to use them and drop it every time you go into melee? (so: 2 actions to go back to firing it)What about holding a bow makes them unable to kick? Or punch with their off hand not holding the bow [they have hands 1+]?
EDIT: Or do you mean drop the stance? If so, yes but why would you get into melee? The monk gets a bonus in speed and is must able to stay out of melee plus they can just shoot someone at melee range unless an AoO in involved.
If you're in a position to flank, switch hitting with a good melee option is handy. Tight budget might make the bow staff a better option than investing in handwraps
| graystone |
graystone wrote:If you're in a position to flank, switch hitting with a good melee option is handy. Tight budget might make the bow staff a better option than investing in handwrapsTactical Drongo wrote:wouldnt you still need monastic archer stance to use them and drop it every time you go into melee? (so: 2 actions to go back to firing it)What about holding a bow makes them unable to kick? Or punch with their off hand not holding the bow [they have hands 1+]?
EDIT: Or do you mean drop the stance? If so, yes but why would you get into melee? The monk gets a bonus in speed and is must able to stay out of melee plus they can just shoot someone at melee range unless an AoO in involved.
*shrug* if I'm focusing on ranged combat, I'll end to stay at ranged: if the only thing you lose is flanking, I'm fine with that. I'd be much more worried if I often find myself "in a position to flank" with a monks speed and a 50' range for my abilities.
| Tactical Drongo |
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Tactical Drongo wrote:wouldnt you still need monastic archer stance to use them and drop it every time you go into melee? (so: 2 actions to go back to firing it)What about holding a bow makes them unable to kick? Or punch with their off hand not holding the bow [they have hands 1+]?
EDIT: Or do you mean drop the stance? If so, yes but why would you get into melee? The monk gets a bonus in speed and is must able to stay out of melee plus they can just shoot someone at melee range unless an AoO in involved.
While in this stance, the only Strikes you can make are those using longbows, shortbows, or bows with the monk trait.
this
I mean, of course one should usually be able to keep out of melee, but then i wouldnt need to buy a bow staff but get a longbow for better base damage or a shorbow for better crit rider
| Guntermench |
Guntermench wrote:VampByDay wrote:Always wear Feather Fall...just in case...25speedforseaweedleshy wrote:base on the new crafting rule low level consumable can be craft with 2 hourThat's if you are high level crafting a low level item. Seems like maybe the best use for scribing robes are low-level utility spells that don't need to be scaled. A Heal spell just to get an ally up and not dying, the Locate spell . . . things that don't require saving throws but are still useful at low levels.Meh you can get feather fall with talisman.
But an emergency mirror image or see invis sounds great on an armor...
You have to use that when you start falling. What if you fall for more than a minute?
| aobst128 |
aobst128 wrote:*shrug* if I'm focusing on ranged combat, I'll end to stay at ranged: if the only thing you lose is flanking, I'm fine with that. I'd be much more worried if I often find myself "in a position to flank" with a monks speed and a 50' range for my abilities.graystone wrote:If you're in a position to flank, switch hitting with a good melee option is handy. Tight budget might make the bow staff a better option than investing in handwrapsTactical Drongo wrote:wouldnt you still need monastic archer stance to use them and drop it every time you go into melee? (so: 2 actions to go back to firing it)What about holding a bow makes them unable to kick? Or punch with their off hand not holding the bow [they have hands 1+]?
EDIT: Or do you mean drop the stance? If so, yes but why would you get into melee? The monk gets a bonus in speed and is must able to stay out of melee plus they can just shoot someone at melee range unless an AoO in involved.
Well, if you are investing in a combo weapon like the bow staff, you probably intend to switch hit at some point. Not a bad plan with monks health and AC. Might as well get some use out of that. The gakgung lets you stay at a healthier range now for pure range too if that's your preferred plan.
| shroudb |
shroudb wrote:You have to use that when you start falling. What if you fall for more than a minute?Guntermench wrote:VampByDay wrote:Always wear Feather Fall...just in case...25speedforseaweedleshy wrote:base on the new crafting rule low level consumable can be craft with 2 hourThat's if you are high level crafting a low level item. Seems like maybe the best use for scribing robes are low-level utility spells that don't need to be scaled. A Heal spell just to get an ally up and not dying, the Locate spell . . . things that don't require saving throws but are still useful at low levels.Meh you can get feather fall with talisman.
But an emergency mirror image or see invis sounds great on an armor...
i haven't seen a lot (actually any) of 600ft straight drops with no handles to arrest such fall.
| graystone |
I mean, of course one should usually be able to keep out of melee, but then i wouldnt need to buy a bow staff but get a longbow for better base damage or a shorbow for better crit rider
longow has volley so you have to stay outside the 30' volley [or take a -2] but inside the 50' with a longbow: that's the main reason to not pick a longbow and not the lack of a melee attack at hand. As to the shortbow, you're limiting yourself to 30' range, which is within a lot of creature's single moves: Gakgung has a 50' range, enough to at least make most monsters move twice, and if only dropping deadly a single die size which IMO it totally worth it.
Well, if you are investing in a combo weapon like the bow staff, you probably intend to switch hit at some point. Not a bad plan with monks health and AC. Might as well get some use out of that. The gakgung lets you stay at a healthier range now for pure range too if that's your preferred plan.
The combo weapons don't work very well with the Stance as you're always going to blow 2 actions to do so: 1 for the stance and 1 for the change to the different weapon type. IMO, this disincentivizes use unless it's required [like an enemy that you can't otherwise reach and you're mainly melee]. IMO, it's a tough sale to switch from ranged to melee just so I can flank when I could just attack and/or move away with those actions as I lose 1 action right away and then lose another if I want to go back to ranged.
Second: I question investing in 2 weapon styles/feats just to use both parts of a combo weapon. *shrug* I understand the need for having both ranged/melee options for a character, but the monk has a default method for melee. So it's not that I don't understand wanting to switch hit if you've invested in it but questioning investing in it in the first place.
| aobst128 |
Tactical Drongo wrote:I mean, of course one should usually be able to keep out of melee, but then i wouldnt need to buy a bow staff but get a longbow for better base damage or a shorbow for better crit riderlongow has volley so you have to stay outside the 30' volley [or take a -2] but inside the 50' with a longbow: that's the main reason to not pick a longbow and not the lack of a melee attack at hand. As to the shortbow, you're limiting yourself to 30' range, which is within a lot of creature's single moves: Gakgung has a 50' range, enough to at least make most monsters move twice, and if only dropping deadly a single die size which IMO it totally worth it.
aobst128 wrote:Well, if you are investing in a combo weapon like the bow staff, you probably intend to switch hit at some point. Not a bad plan with monks health and AC. Might as well get some use out of that. The gakgung lets you stay at a healthier range now for pure range too if that's your preferred plan.The combo weapons don't work very well with the Stance as you're always going to blow 2 actions to do so: 1 for the stance and 1 for the change to the different weapon type. IMO, this disincentivizes use unless it's required [like an enemy that you can't otherwise reach and you're mainly melee]. IMO, it's a tough sale to switch from ranged to melee just so I can flank when I could just attack and/or move away with those actions as I lose 1 action right away and then lose another if I want to go back to ranged.
Second: I question investing in 2 weapon styles/feats just to use both parts of a combo weapon. *shrug* I understand the need for having both ranged/melee options for a character, but the monk has a default method for melee. So it's not that I don't understand wanting to switch hit if you've invested in it but questioning investing in it in the first place.
You'd use 2 actions when switching to the bow mode. One for melee. It's gonna depend on the exact situations you're in. Sometimes, you might want to make yourself a target if your squishier party members are threatened for instance. In either case, you still have the action left to flurry is my thought. Out of most combo weapon use cases, monk with a bow staff looks good compared to anyone who isn't a triggerbrand.
| aobst128 |
Bow staff is pretty good in general for a combo weapon outside of archer monks too thanks to finesse and reload 0. Pretty close to a shortbow in functionality. I could see more opting for one of these instead of a shortbow. Although, it may be a mistake that it's common. I pity archer monks using a mikazuki. Basically a bad bullet dancer and that's saying something. I have a feeling it's not meant to be reload 1.
| aobst128 |
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Are you allowed to make attacks with the staff part of the bow staff without dropping Monastic Archer stance? I'm genuinely unclear on this. Is it still a "bow with the monk trait" no matter what mode it's in?
The staff part is a club so probably not. Switching to melee would drop the stance since you're no longer wielding a bow.
| graystone |
Out of most combo weapon use cases, monk with a bow staff looks good compared to anyone who isn't a triggerbrand.
For me, the monk isn't a good candidate for switch hitting with a bow and melee weapon as they have to pay to get access to both individually before we get into the action cost involved. I like the weapon in a vacuum but when you add monk in, I'm a lot less thrilled.
You'd use 2 actions when switching to the bow mode.
Technically, this is incorrect: you only need 2 to use monk abilities with the bow. The proficiency in the bow is separate from the stance. Most times you'll want to 'break even' by spending for the stance and then flurry, but you could end up in a situation where you only have a single action to use and a shot this round might be better than entering the stance and waiting to attack or the range of combat is outside 1/2 your range increment so you wouldn't be able to use monk abilities anyway.
| aobst128 |
aobst128 wrote:Out of most combo weapon use cases, monk with a bow staff looks good compared to anyone who isn't a triggerbrand.For me, the monk isn't a good candidate for switch hitting with a bow and melee weapon as they have to pay to get access to both individually before we get into the action cost involved. I like the weapon in a vacuum but when you add monk in, I'm a lot less thrilled.
aobst128 wrote:You'd use 2 actions when switching to the bow mode.Technically, this is incorrect: you only need 2 to use monk abilities with the bow. The proficiency in the bow is separate from the stance. Most times you'll want to 'break even' by spending for the stance and then flurry, but you could end up in a situation where you only have a single action to use and a shot this round might be better than entering the stance and waiting to attack or the range of combat is outside 1/2 your range increment so you wouldn't be able to use monk abilities anyway.
Yeah, it has its costs. Manageable in my opinion. Not as bad as ancestral weapon monks anyways. Still have room for stunning fist. For a switch hitter, I'd agree it's not the best. That probably goes to wild winds monks but it's workable at low levels. It's of moderate usage. Not great, not terrible. Loosing out on propulsive is my biggest issue with it honestly.
| graystone |
Not as bad as ancestral weapon monks anyways.
I see them about the same as you're spending the same number of monk feats: You're just spending a 1st level ancestry feat extra and that's pretty much the entry feat/cost for an advanced weapon anyway. The bigger problem for me, is finding an ancestral weapon worth the effort/feats [finesse and/or agile + ancestry trait]. I mean why go out of your way to do this for, say an elven branched spear [1d6P, Deadly d8, Elf, Finesse, Reach, Uncommon], when I could just pick up a Kusarigama [1d8 S, Disarm, monk, reach, trip, versatile B]? Only thing I can see is going for a particular theme/image.
| aobst128 |
aobst128 wrote:Not as bad as ancestral weapon monks anyways.I see them about the same as you're spending the same number of monk feats: You're just spending a 1st level ancestry feat extra and that's pretty much the entry feat/cost for an advanced weapon anyway. The bigger problem for me, is finding an ancestral weapon worth the effort/feats [finesse and/or agile + ancestry trait]. I mean why go out of your way to do this for, say an elven branched spear [1d6P, Deadly d8, Elf, Finesse, Reach, Uncommon], when I could just pick up a Kusarigama [1d8 S, Disarm, monk, reach, trip, versatile B]? Only thing I can see is going for a particular theme/image.
Same feat cost but the ancestral weapon monk pays twice to use one attack while the bow staff monk pays twice a for two attacks. Ends up more versatile. Ancestral monk weapons are obnoxious due to the small list that actually applies to it. The best use case I could find is the tengu gale blade if you want peafowl stance but don't want a strength key for the temple sword. Otherwise, it's just flavor. A dogslicer goblin monk is a fun idea.
| shroudb |
I'm assuming folks have brought up the fact we have a spellheart with electric arc on it now, yeah? It's an even easier get than it was previously now, which is neat.
I don't think we have a spellheart themed around acid, but the other damage types all seem to be represented now.
what level is it though?
i find arc to be mostly useful in the lower levels that you dont want to be spamming actual spells.
later levels, in between spells and focus powers, i dont find myself using cantrips all that much except to clean up stuff towards the end of an encounter
| Ravingdork |
Battle Saddle lets you spend an action to boost your mount's AC. You can then Raise Shield or Parry with your own item with your second action to boost your AC, followed by using your last action to Command An Animal to get your mount to both move and attack.
Not too shabby considering it's also a decent weapon.