What class paths do you want to see?


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Why though.


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The Raven Black wrote:

Counter-proposal :

Wizards getting Unarmed proficiency only.
Rogues getting Unarmed and Simple weapons proficiencies only.

Counter-counter proposal:

Wizards get uncommon monk and goblin weapons

Rogues get all two-handed axes.


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Sanityfaerie wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:

Counter-proposal :

Wizards getting Unarmed proficiency only.
Rogues getting Unarmed and Simple weapons proficiencies only.

Counter-counter proposal:

Wizards get uncommon monk and goblin weapons

Rogues get all two-handed axes.

Excuse me while I go make my goblin monk MC wizard now, please and thank you.


keftiu wrote:


Aberration Eidolon is definitely something I want, though I'm not personally interested in Summoner until we get Synthesists back.

We have a synthesis summoner already, called Meld into Eidolon.

Dark Archive

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aobst128 wrote:
Squiggit wrote:

A few that immediately come to mind to me:

Aberration Summoner

Something like PF1's Psychic Detective Investigator.

A 'know it all' swashbuckler that gets panache off RK could be kind of neat.

TWF Magus. It feels conspicuously absent.

Something that feels a little like pistolero but two-hander compatible. Gunslinger feels weird if I use a two-handed firearm but aren't interested in athletics or stealth.

And just for mechanical/symmetry reasons without a lot of good ideas I want to see a second option for Arcane Witches and any kind of Occult Barbarian.

The int swashbuckler is the ultimate smartass. Twf magus sounds like it would be pretty powerful. If it would get something like double slice + spellstrike. Oh boy.

I actually came here to say a TWF magus as well. But I think double slice would be too powerful. Something like a change or addition to spellstrike to make it a three action activity with a second attack at MAP and allowing the spell to go off on either could be good though. It sacrifices a lot of flexibility but would be very offensive, and it would require until level 20 to do a spellstrike multiple turns in a row.

Edit: I didn't realize I was so far behind on this thread. It seems people have been talking about this already. I need to check back more regularly.


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Personally, I'd love to see an Undead Instinct for Barbarian. I was hoping that would be included in Book of the Dead, but I suspect I'll be disappointed.


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Gamerskum wrote:
keftiu wrote:


Aberration Eidolon is definitely something I want, though I'm not personally interested in Summoner until we get Synthesists back.

We have a synthesis summoner already, called Meld into Eidolon.

We actually don't, and I don't mean to split hairs. Meld is a way to simulate the look of a Synthesist for a while but doesn't truly cover what is sought after in a true synthesist. I believe this came up in the playtest postscript where it was decided that a true synthesist could not fit in Secrets of Magic but was reserved for some kind of class archetype waiting for a later opportunity.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Gamerskum wrote:
keftiu wrote:


Aberration Eidolon is definitely something I want, though I'm not personally interested in Summoner until we get Synthesists back.

We have a synthesis summoner already, called Meld into Eidolon.

That Feat doesn't at all encompass what the Synthesis is actually capable. It's a fun addition, but barely skims the surface. Also, devs have already stated they plan to release a Synthesis Class Archetype. So it's coming. Just a matter of when. I think most people are assuming it may make its debut in Dark Archive, given the line about "becoming a living vessel for an eldritch being". This says two things to me: 1. Synthesis; 2. Aberration Eidolon and/or the mentioned Amalgam Eidolon from the SoM Playtest.

That said, I imagine Meld into Eidolon will be granted as part of the Synthesis Class Archetype, altering the Manifest Eidolon ability in a way that you can only Manifest as part of the Melding action; basically making it impossible for a Sythesis to Manifest their Eidolon separately.


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I'd like to see Aberrant, Elemental, & Twin eidolons ported over.

Ideally, Twin would focus on the tandem fighting concept more so maybe a class archetype. It might step on the Synthesist a little but I really like the idea of a fighting duo.

Everyone wants to see a Synthesist. I'm pretty sure they're going to be disappointed in whatever 2e Synthesist Paizo releases in the same way Magic Lineage, Intensified, Shocking Grasp spamming Magus fans hated the 2e Magus. In my personal experience with the 1E Sythesist (about 15-20 in various online games) every single one of them was the dictionary definition of ridiculously min-maxed OP power grab. We're talking dumping Con, Dex, Str base form stats to 7 (or lower depending on race.) There's no way the 2e Synthesist is going to be anywhere close to that, it just wasn't balanced.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Disappointment is par the course for anything porting from 1e. We just can't have the same levels of power creep that was there; which, I for one appreciate the more balanced content we've largely received. That said, I feel those that won't be up in arms about it are more focused on the concept and general abilities that came with it. Meld into Eidolon is a nice stopgap, but it doesn't do much in allowing a player to really utilize that fusion fantasy. Give me the ability to play full on Yuri from Shadow Hearts or Leonard from White Knight Chronicles.

On the matter of additional Eidolons, I second wanting to see Twin return. I enjoyed the concept. Perhaps it has the ability to emulate the Summoners Feats or something similar. I also really want to see the addition of a Weapon Eidlon. Playstyle would probably be very different, so it would likely be a Class Archetype. It could scratch that itch for summonable weapons in a unique way as well. Give it some Evolutions like being able to change into different weapons or granting it intelligence; assuming it doesn't already have one. Could be used to create characters similar to Noctis from FF.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

So...

Guilty Gear -Strive- Spoiler:

Testament was announced as a playable character for Strive....

and now....
I NEED:

Some kind of means of allowing a Summoner with a Familiar the ability to temporarily take on the appearance and abilities of their Eidolon for cool purposes!!!

Also...
Plz Paizo:

I need that staff/blood scythe.

Liberty's Edge

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Ly'ualdre wrote:

So...

** spoiler omitted **

I'm okay with this as long as they also print a full-blown sentient teleporting weaponized pod of Dolphins you can attack with on sea, land, or air.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Themetricsystem wrote:
Ly'ualdre wrote:

So...

** spoiler omitted **
I'm okay with this as long as they also print a full-blown sentient teleporting weaponized pod of Dolphins you can attack with on sea, land, or air.

Easy, Incarnate Spell. Lol


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Themetricsystem wrote:
Ly'ualdre wrote:

So...

** spoiler omitted **
I'm okay with this as long as they also print a full-blown sentient teleporting weaponized pod of Dolphins you can attack with on sea, land, or air.

Tandem Psychic War Dolphins!?


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Temperans wrote:
Themetricsystem wrote:
Ly'ualdre wrote:

So...

** spoiler omitted **
I'm okay with this as long as they also print a full-blown sentient teleporting weaponized pod of Dolphins you can attack with on sea, land, or air.
Tandem Psychic War Dolphins!?

Idk why, but this made me think of the Wonder Twins for some reason.


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Temperans wrote:
Themetricsystem wrote:
Ly'ualdre wrote:

So...

** spoiler omitted **
I'm okay with this as long as they also print a full-blown sentient teleporting weaponized pod of Dolphins you can attack with on sea, land, or air.
Tandem Psychic War Dolphins!?

Pffft. Dolphins.


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It may be too niche (or step on a hypothetical Kineticist’s toes), but a Pyromancer option for the Psychic would be a delight - and on-theme, factoring in things like stories of human combustion or characters like Liz from Hellboy/BPRD.


keftiu wrote:
It may be too niche (or step on a hypothetical Kineticist’s toes), but a Pyromancer option for the Psychic would be a delight - and on-theme, factoring in things like stories of human combustion or characters like Liz from Hellboy/BPRD.

My buddy was hoping for a bloodbender type too lol


Tandem Psychic War Elephant wrote:
Temperans wrote:
Themetricsystem wrote:
Ly'ualdre wrote:

So...

** spoiler omitted **
I'm okay with this as long as they also print a full-blown sentient teleporting weaponized pod of Dolphins you can attack with on sea, land, or air.
Tandem Psychic War Dolphins!?
Pffft. Dolphins.

Dolphins can jump tho.


Midnightoker wrote:
keftiu wrote:
It may be too niche (or step on a hypothetical Kineticist’s toes), but a Pyromancer option for the Psychic would be a delight - and on-theme, factoring in things like stories of human combustion or characters like Liz from Hellboy/BPRD.
My buddy was hoping for a bloodbender type too lol

I agree that both those options would be nice, but I think it would be tough with PF2 niche protection and potential Kineticist. Paizo would have to handle them in very different ways to make sure it works. Ex: PF1 Cabalist (bleed others) vs Holy Vindicator (self bleed) vs Bloodkineticist (manipulate bleed).

Pyromancy is literally a basic Kineticist element.
Blood bending can easily be a class archetype that forces you to take the water element, but apply it to blood.

****************

Which reminds me. It would be nice to see the return of Chronomancer (Focus points to rewind time) and Spellslinger (Boost spells at the chance of suffering misfire) Wizard.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I would be surprised to see the Psychic get anything that steps outside the confines of the Occult Tradition. Elemental based magic seems largely rooted in the Arcane and Primal Traditions, so it seems more likely to be the wheelhouse of Kineticist Class with either access to Arcane or Primal Magic, but with the same Psychic Magic ability the Psychic has in order to separate Kineticism from Mancer Magic. I could be very wrong however. There are a few elemental spells on the Occult list. So maybe.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
PossibleCabbage wrote:

There's also the issue of how to split the TWF magus's kit over the four parts of a hybrid study. Specifically a hybrid study gives:

-Something that's reliably useful but minor
-A focus spell
-A QoL increase in a 4th level feat (e.g. "now you can have property runes on your staff")
-A Spellstrike upgrade as a 10th level feat.

It feels like "if you miss with the first attack, you can attempt to deliver the spell with your second weapon" is a 10th level ability not a 1st level ability.

Honestly, it seems like the simplest Hybrid Study would be "While in Arcane Cascade Stance, your multiple attack penalty for attacks against your hunted prey is –3 (–2 with an agile weapon) on your second attack of the turn instead of –5, and –6 (–4 with an agile weapon) on your third or subsequent attack of the turn, instead of –10."

I can't come up with a good Conflux spell. They are action reducers, but the obvious action reducer for 2wf is pretty much "Spinning Staff".


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I've been trying to convert over a 3.5 character now that Book of the Dead is out, and I've realized that I'm missing the land-based druid themes. Desert Druids, Tundra Druids, etc., mostly because that former character did a mix of healing the party, slinging some negative energy for themself, and blasting people with lots of sand. They're very desert-y themed, which is harder to achieve than I thought it would be.


Perpdepog wrote:
I've been trying to convert over a 3.5 character now that Book of the Dead is out, and I've realized that I'm missing the land-based druid themes. Desert Druids, Tundra Druids, etc., mostly because that former character did a mix of healing the party, slinging some negative energy for themself, and blasting people with lots of sand. They're very desert-y themed, which is harder to achieve than I thought it would be.

The Mummy archetype actually gets some of this, which might help? They choose a terrain type and can get a number of linked abilities. It does feel like an obvious hole in the current Druid options, though.

I know I'd certainly like the sand Kineticist back from 1e.


keftiu wrote:
Perpdepog wrote:
I've been trying to convert over a 3.5 character now that Book of the Dead is out, and I've realized that I'm missing the land-based druid themes. Desert Druids, Tundra Druids, etc., mostly because that former character did a mix of healing the party, slinging some negative energy for themself, and blasting people with lots of sand. They're very desert-y themed, which is harder to achieve than I thought it would be.

The Mummy archetype actually gets some of this, which might help? They choose a terrain type and can get a number of linked abilities. It does feel like an obvious hole in the current Druid options, though.

I know I'd certainly like the sand Kineticist back from 1e.

I know they do. I'm only able to make that character now because Mummy exists, and to a lesser degree Lich depending on whether my eventual GM would be OK with stacking undead archetypes or not. I think it's mostly a hole presented by the fact that Divine and Primal are more separated than they used to be than the cleric and druid spell lists of 3.5/PF1E were. There are lots of sandblasty spells that are sadly not on the divine list, while all the negative energy he likes to sling around can't really be found anywhere else.

Not to mention that some of the domain spells perfectly fit the flavor of the character, but are inaccessible to the current druid, and very awkward to try squeezing in around the archetype I'm already planning for.


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Perpdepog wrote:
keftiu wrote:
Perpdepog wrote:
I've been trying to convert over a 3.5 character now that Book of the Dead is out, and I've realized that I'm missing the land-based druid themes. Desert Druids, Tundra Druids, etc., mostly because that former character did a mix of healing the party, slinging some negative energy for themself, and blasting people with lots of sand. They're very desert-y themed, which is harder to achieve than I thought it would be.

The Mummy archetype actually gets some of this, which might help? They choose a terrain type and can get a number of linked abilities. It does feel like an obvious hole in the current Druid options, though.

I know I'd certainly like the sand Kineticist back from 1e.

I know they do. I'm only able to make that character now because Mummy exists, and to a lesser degree Lich depending on whether my eventual GM would be OK with stacking undead archetypes or not. I think it's mostly a hole presented by the fact that Divine and Primal are more separated than they used to be than the cleric and druid spell lists of 3.5/PF1E were. There are lots of sandblasty spells that are sadly not on the divine list, while all the negative energy he likes to sling around can't really be found anywhere else.

Not to mention that some of the domain spells perfectly fit the flavor of the character, but are inaccessible to the current druid, and very awkward to try squeezing in around the archetype I'm already planning for.

This is in part what the elementalist/geomancer caster archetypes in SoM were meant to address, giving most/any class the ability to mesh more environment focused effects into their kit and move spells around that have explicit elemental flavors to them. Worst case scenario, you might just have to multi/dual class to get everything that old character had.


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Perpdepog wrote:

I know they do. I'm only able to make that character now because Mummy exists, and to a lesser degree Lich depending on whether my eventual GM would be OK with stacking undead archetypes or not. I think it's mostly a hole presented by the fact that Divine and Primal are more separated than they used to be than the cleric and druid spell lists of 3.5/PF1E were. There are lots of sandblasty spells that are sadly not on the divine list, while all the negative energy he likes to sling around can't really be found anywhere else.

Not to mention that some of the domain spells perfectly fit the flavor of the character, but are inaccessible to the current druid, and very awkward to try squeezing in around the archetype I'm already planning for.

If you're hoping to actually run this character, and it's not PFS, this sounds like a good time to ask the GM if you can have a homebrewed/themed spell list


HumbleGamer wrote:


For what I care, they might give a 2 weapon hybrid study for the magus, as long as anything like the stuff mentioned before ( which is double slice spellstrike or a focus spell that allow the magus to strike twice + recharge ) is given to the class.

But have to admit that given how paizo works in terms of balance, I can say I feel quite assured.

This gave me an interesting idea, maybe a 2WF magus could get an extra action called Recharging strike.

Recharging strike:
Traits: Press
Requirements: You are holding a weapon in each hand, and have used spellstrike since the start of your last turn.

Make a weapon strike with a weapon that wasn't used as part of your last spellstrike against the target of that spellstrike, if it hits you may siphon some of the residual energy of your spell to recharge your spellstrike as a free action.

I put some weird requirements on it to be a bit more lenient in terms of action economy (this would let you move->spellstrike/ move->strike->recharge or work in an arcane cascade in the middle). You could make it more or less restrictive but this gives the general idea of how it could work. (maybe removing Press would be fine? maybe it only works if the last action was arcane cascade or spellstrike?).

The conflux spell could be something like:
Shift energy:
Reaction
Trigger: Your last action was a missed spellstrike
Requirements: You are wielding one weapon in each hand
You quickly channel the magic from your missed spellstrike into your offhand weapon in an attempt to save the spell. Make a spellstrike using the weapon you didn't use for the spellstrike, using the same spell and your current MAP.

I'm not sure how powerful this would be overall, a reaction based focus spell seems good, but it would be at a -10 (-8 if agile) so it probably wouldn't do much most of the time.


Recharging strike... that's a heck of a lot of damage against the standard block of tofu. Shift energy similarly - you're getting what would normally be a two-action attack for a single reaction, and you get to reuse the charge of spellstrike and the spell (if slotted) to boot. Having it be the same MAP makes it even worse. Between the two of them, this variant as suggested is way overpowered.

Like, starting in base-to-base contact and unleashing is sometimes difficult to set up, but if you pull it off, with this setup...

- You get your spellstrike.
- If you miss, you get to do it again, at the same MAP, at the cost of a reaction and a focus point.
- If you hit either of those, you get a second (third) attack that lets you recharge your spellstrike if you hit - a significant bit of action advantage that doesn't cost you a focus spell.

If anything, I'd make Recharging Strike the conflux spell. "Action efficiency in spellstrike recharging" is kind of the conflux spell thing. If you want to find something shiny for the dual weapon side of things... possibly have a way to mix an offhand attack with starting up Arcane Cascade? That wouldn't give you the same kind of action efficiency as making it a full-on no-resource spellstrike recharger does, but it would still be a nice little bonus.


Sanityfaerie wrote:

Recharging strike... that's a heck of a lot of damage against the standard block of tofu. Shift energy similarly - you're getting what would normally be a two-action attack for a single reaction, and you get to reuse the charge of spellstrike and the spell (if slotted) to boot. Having it be the same MAP makes it even worse. Between the two of them, this variant as suggested is way overpowered.

Like, starting in base-to-base contact and unleashing is sometimes difficult to set up, but if you pull it off, with this setup...

- You get your spellstrike.
- If you miss, you get to do it again, at the same MAP, at the cost of a reaction and a focus point.
- If you hit either of those, you get a second (third) attack that lets you recharge your spellstrike if you hit - a significant bit of action advantage that doesn't cost you a focus spell.

If anything, I'd make Recharging Strike the conflux spell. "Action efficiency in spellstrike recharging" is kind of the conflux spell thing. If you want to find something shiny for the dual weapon side of things... possibly have a way to mix an offhand attack with starting up Arcane Cascade? That wouldn't give you the same kind of action efficiency as making it a full-on no-resource spellstrike recharger does, but it would still be a nice little bonus.

Maybe I didn't word it properly, but the confluence spell would be at the normal MAP for an attack after a spellstrike (spellstrike counts as 2 attacks, so it would be for 2 attacks, so a -10) I put it there mostly as reminder text.

So if you started base-to-base you could:
Spellstrike
Reaction focus spell to spellstrike again at -10 (-8 for agile) if the spellstrike missed
do a recharging strike at -10 (-8 for agile).

So you're making a lot of strikes, but you'll really feel the MAP. I put press on the recharging strike too, so you can either do it at a -10/-8 immediately after a spellstrike, or a -5/-4 and -10/-8 on the next turn after a normal strike, but you won't be able to spellstrike that turn.


nick1wasd wrote:
Perpdepog wrote:
keftiu wrote:
Perpdepog wrote:
I've been trying to convert over a 3.5 character now that Book of the Dead is out, and I've realized that I'm missing the land-based druid themes. Desert Druids, Tundra Druids, etc., mostly because that former character did a mix of healing the party, slinging some negative energy for themself, and blasting people with lots of sand. They're very desert-y themed, which is harder to achieve than I thought it would be.

The Mummy archetype actually gets some of this, which might help? They choose a terrain type and can get a number of linked abilities. It does feel like an obvious hole in the current Druid options, though.

I know I'd certainly like the sand Kineticist back from 1e.

I know they do. I'm only able to make that character now because Mummy exists, and to a lesser degree Lich depending on whether my eventual GM would be OK with stacking undead archetypes or not. I think it's mostly a hole presented by the fact that Divine and Primal are more separated than they used to be than the cleric and druid spell lists of 3.5/PF1E were. There are lots of sandblasty spells that are sadly not on the divine list, while all the negative energy he likes to sling around can't really be found anywhere else.

Not to mention that some of the domain spells perfectly fit the flavor of the character, but are inaccessible to the current druid, and very awkward to try squeezing in around the archetype I'm already planning for.

This is in part what the elementalist/geomancer caster archetypes in SoM were meant to address, giving most/any class the ability to mesh more environment focused effects into their kit and move spells around that have explicit elemental flavors to them. Worst case scenario, you might just have to multi/dual class to get everything that old character had.

I've looked at the elementalist spell list, but it's a bit too anemic for this character unless they wanted to use all four elements and nothing else. I'll probably make a character who uses it sometime, but it won't be this guy. Geomancer is a fun pick though for that I'd need to go FA, though it's on my short list if FA is on the table.

Sanityfaerie wrote:
If you're hoping to actually run this character, and it's not PFS, this sounds like a good time to ask the GM if you can have a homebrewed/themed spell list

I may play this character sometime, but right now it's more a thought exercise to see how I'd convert characters over from older editions. I like the challenge of, usually, having to look at a character sheet and boil them down to what they're really about and like to do, since 3.5/PF1E characters, particularly casters, could be all over the place in terms of abilities.

I'm currently looking at a cleric, maybe druid, or elemental sorc as the base chassis and then cheating out spells with things like domains or cross-blooded. If I was actually playing with a permissive GM though I would just ask if I could swap spells around like you suggested rather than going through these steps.


Dual weapon magus suggests a double slice spellstrike like ability. Probably the 10th level feat. Would be quiet powerful. I could see it being 2 strikes with normal map and if either hits, it applies the spell. Don't know what their cascade would be though.


Perpdepog wrote:
I've looked at the elementalist spell list, but it's a bit too anemic for this character unless they wanted to use all four...

The Elementalist was a huge disappointment for me. I don't really understand what they were trying to do with the archetype. I mean you take classes with access to the widest selection/variety of elemental spells (Arcane & Primal traditions) and the remove most utility spells and all healing spells to access some meh feats. The familiar feats might have been fun if they hadn't turned familiars into pet rocks. There's a few cross tradition spells that are nice but nothing that comes close to what you give up.

Elementalist needs to be thrown on the Unchained wish lists that pop-up occasionally.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Cold and Lightning magic being completely missing from the Elementalist list, witches, Summoners, and Magi just not having any way to access the archetype's focus spells, the wishy washy future proofing, and the way the list in general mostly feels defined by what spells you lose rather than what unique things it can do all make Elementalist feel like a huge miss.

It might have been kind of neat if any class could pick it up, because even if it's weak there's thematic value in someone being able to just completely redirect their class theme, but for an Arcane or Primal caster the list doesn't offer a lot of new stuff.


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Elementalist lacking lightning spells kills it for blaster concepts.

Radiant Oath

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Honestly, yeah. I'd love to be able to do ice-themed casters (especially magi and sorcerers) who AREN'T Winter Witches and stuff.

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