Secrets of Magic : Tattoo Artist - Clarification needed!!~

[The Inheritor]

The wording is unclear, or maybe we've been given a Dud feat as there does not appear to be any Common Magical Tattoos of 2nd Level or Lower. Does it mean Add add the Tattoo Trait to an existing magic item then add it to your formula list as a Tattoo?

[Blave]

There's supposed to be magical tattoos in the upcoming Grand Baazar book. That's probably gonna fix it.

Not the most satisfying solution but at least it's coming.

[The Inheritor]

Where can we find the clarification of the Grand Bazaar release containing the missing Tattoos?

[Blave]

No clue, sorry. It was probably mentioned during paizocon or some recent livestream.

[Ezekieru]

The Inheritor wrote:

Where can we find the clarification of the Grand Bazaar release containing the missing Tattoos?

I forget which one, but I believe one of the streams (probably during Paizo LIVE!) mentioned someone was doing a tattoo shop for The Grand Bazaar, specifically. I remember this info came out before SoM said anything about magic tattoos, which got me excited (since the only other magic tattoos we had was the one in World Guide and the Human Ancestry feats from Character Guide).

[Ezekieru]

Also, the dedication isn't a dud. You can't craft magic tattoos period unless you either A) take the Tattoo Artist feat, or B) take both the Magical Crafting skill feat and the Specialty Crafting (artistry) skill feat.

Tattoo Artist is basically two feats in one narrower application. It DOES suck to not have any low-level Tattoos to use the formulas on, but that'll get changed in the future. The feat itself still has a purpose.

[Zaister]

Items from the shops will probably be mostly Uncommon, I think.

[Shain Edge]

It seems to be a definite oversite on the designers to have the Feat allow for four 2nd level tattoos, and there being exactly ZERO tattoos less then 3rd level.

That is POOR writing, making the early levels of the Tattoo artist of ZERO effectiveness. There needs to be SOME remedy for this oversite. Maybe the designer(s) can publish a list of tattoos on the SRD site, or maybe an official way to convert spells to Tattoos.

[Guntermench]

I wonder if this is an instance of them expecting another book to be out by now, like the Absalom book.

[wegrata]

You could use the relic rules as the basis for a build your own tattoo. We did that in my game. So far it's been fun.

[Grankless]

As already stated in this thread, Grand Bazaar will have an entire tattoo shop. Future-proofing is the opposite of bad writing.

[Guntermench]

Releasing something without an available options is a poor choice though. That's not future proofing, that's bad planning.

[Ezekieru]

Guntermench wrote:

Releasing something without an available options is a poor choice though. That's not future proofing, that's bad planning.

The "available options" only pertains to the formulas gained from the feat, not the main functionality of the feat itself, nor the formulas you can gain later as all formulas in general do.

And reducing their decisions down to "bad planning" doesn't take into account any of the complications they would have had to face while copyfitting, editing, and laying out the book. If their best compromise for these issues was to introduce the rules and lore of the tattoos in this book, and then wait until The Grand Bazaar to have a fuller inventory follow-up of tattoos for most levels, I'd rather go with that than wait a year or longer for another potential opportunity to put magic tattoos into the game.

[The Raven Black]

Maybe The Grand Bazaar will have a Design your own tatoos subsystem.

[Stack]

Shain Edge wrote:

It seems to be a definite oversite on the designers to have the Feat allow for four 2nd level tattoos, and there being exactly ZERO tattoos less then 3rd level.

That is POOR writing, making the early levels of the Tattoo artist of ZERO effectiveness. There needs to be SOME remedy for this oversite. Maybe the designer(s) can publish a list of tattoos on the SRD site, or maybe an official way to convert spells to Tattoos.

I expect someone (or multiple someones) wrote the archetype and the tattoo options, then they got split up later in the process for space and other editing reasons. Still not good result though.

[Guntermench]

Ezekieru wrote:

Guntermench wrote:

Releasing something without an available options is a poor choice though. That's not future proofing, that's bad planning.

The "available options" only pertains to the formulas gained from the feat, not the main functionality of the feat itself, nor the formulas you can gain later as all formulas in general do.

And reducing their decisions down to "bad planning" doesn't take into account any of the complications they would have had to face while copyfitting, editing, and laying out the book. If their best compromise for these issues was to introduce the rules and lore of the tattoos in this book, and then wait until The Grand Bazaar to have a fuller inventory follow-up of tattoos for most levels, I'd rather go with that than wait a year or longer for another potential opportunity to put magic tattoos into the game.

Literally all of that involves the planning stage, and then they only put in tattoos above level 2. That counts as poor planning in my book. They very much had the opportunity to put in at least one tattoo for you to get with the feat.

[Shain Edge]

Grankless wrote:

As already stated in this thread, Grand Bazaar will have an entire tattoo shop. Future-proofing is the opposite of bad writing.

Actually, I think it was clarified that the Grand Bazaar /may/ have rules for tattoos. There is nothing definite. Unless I missed it, there is nothing official on tattoos other then what we have in Secrets of Magic.

[Old_Man_Robot]

I’m not a fan in general of this approach they’ve taken with the tattoo feat. They did it with some focus spells in Gods and Magic as well. Wherein they referenced stuff that wasn’t actually released until the APG.

I mean, I get it, it’s a neat teaser gimmick for other books, I just don’t like it for any book where they say they had to cut some content for space reasons.

[The Raven Black]

It is a matter of messed-up timetables. Not a deliberate choice

[Ezekieru]

Shain Edge wrote:

Grankless wrote:

As already stated in this thread, Grand Bazaar will have an entire tattoo shop. Future-proofing is the opposite of bad writing.

Actually, I think it was clarified that the Grand Bazaar /may/ have rules for tattoos. There is nothing definite. Unless I missed it, there is nothing official on tattoos other then what we have in Secrets of Magic.

It was definitely confirmed several times on various streams and other sources that there's a tattoo shop in the book, alongside a monster hunter shop and a snare-crafting shop (which will have the long-awaited kobold snares in there). So yes, there's more tattoos to come in The Grand Bazaar.

[The Inheritor]

Seeing as Grand Bazaar does not have any 1st or 2nd level Tattoos, Can we get an Errata for this feat?

[Shain Edge]

The Raven Black wrote:

It is a matter of messed-up timetables. Not a deliberate choice

Just opened up my PDF of The Grand Bazaar... To the Tattoos.. One Tattoo of 3rd level.. 4 FOUR new tattoos TOTAL. No new rules implimenting tattoos..

I'm UNIMPRESSED.

[Shain Edge]

Ezekieru wrote:

And reducing their decisions down to "bad planning" doesn't take into account any of the complications they would have had to face while copyfitting, editing, and laying out the book. If their best compromise for these issues was to introduce the rules and lore of the tattoos in this book, and then wait until The Grand Bazaar to have a fuller inventory follow-up of tattoos for most levels, I'd rather go with that than wait a year or longer for another potential opportunity to put magic tattoos into the game.

The Grand Bazaar Book has a total of 4 tattoos in it, and nothing of how to expand the tattoo rules for options. Still willing to defend their activity?

[Invictus Fatum]

My guess is there are Tattoos in the Absalom book and it being delayed by so much time threw off this archetype. That's all I've got, the only other explanation is Paizo let a giant mistake into their otherwise great book.

[Shain Edge]

Invictus Fatum wrote:

My guess is there are Tattoos in the Absalom book and it being delayed by so much time threw off this archetype. That's all I've got, the only other explanation is Paizo let a giant mistake into their otherwise great book.

Welp, there are NO tattoos in the Absalom book.

It is official. They got us excited on something that was very interesting, made rules for it, then they provided NO substance of usefulness for the Tattoo magic.

[Themetricsystem]

Sounds to me like the best fix for this would come most easily by way of them authoring a specially dedicated blog post where they publish a dozen or so qualifying Tattoos so that this feat isn't DOA in terms of the free Tattoos that it is supposed to give to the PC.

I know blog posts have been made in the past to add some content or another without having to bolt it onto a book release where there were issues, though I cannot for the life of me actually remember what those instances were.

[Malk_Content]

They released a free PDF with an Ancestry (Azarketi) when they messed up and printing a bunch of options for an Ancestry with no base rules before. They should do the same here. Printing something that gives you access to content and not producing that content in any reasonable time frame is frankly not the standard I expect from Paizo. Truly shoddy.

[OilyTrout]

Some thought on magical tattooes.

PF 1st edition has only 4 lvl 1 magical tattoos:

https://aonprd.com/MagicTattooDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Runeward%20Tattoo
The +1 save works, the number of activation per day and the price probably have to be sized down a bit.

https://aonprd.com/MagicTattooDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Hypnotic%20Tattoo
Activation: The bearer uses a bard composition cantrip with an emanation area
When the bearer uses a composition, she can choose a creature within the emanation that she can see and that can see her hypnotic tattoo. That creature takes a –1 penalty on Perception checks until the beginning of the bearer's next turn. This is a mind-affecting effect.
Price: something sensible in PF2 economy.

https://aonprd.com/MagicTattooDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Spell%20Tattoo
The spell tattoo could just work as written: it is better than a scroll because you save an action to use it. The item level could be the scroll item level+1.
Price could be the price for a normal consumable at the given level, maybe with a couple extra gold because of the action economy.

I would allow talisman formulas to be converted into tattoo formulas. The tattooes will disappear after use the same way spell tattoes and talismans are destroyed after use.
https://aonprd.com/MagicTattooDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Serpentine%20Tattoo
At a glance, no pf2 maneuvers match with the pf1 effect.
But a "Bronze Bull Tattoo" could work either as a temporary item, or as permanet one with one activation per day.

Still on the subject of tattooes, armor runes on the skin might be a thing as well, but there's the problem of the dex bonus cap to AC to +5. not that big of a fix, but no armor runes are lvl 2 or less so it doesn't help the main issue :/

[Gisher]

OilyTrout wrote:

...

Still on the subject of tattooes, armor runes on the skin might be a thing as well, ...

We do have the Runescarred archetype's Living Rune feat as a precedent.

[Ashe Ravenheart]

OilyTrout wrote:

...

I would allow talisman formulas to be converted into tattoo formulas. The tattooes will disappear after use the same way spell tattoes and talismans are destroyed after use.
...

Also, the tattoos they have published aren't consumable. Considering the rules talk about investing and healing, I'd rather not spend a month of downtime to get a +X bonus to a single die roll and then it fades.

[Ghilteras]

One of my players just selected this feat. What am I supposed to tell him? That this feat released more than a year ago is incomplete?

[Squiggit]

Ghilteras wrote:

One of my players just selected this feat. What am I supposed to tell him? That this feat released more than a year ago is incomplete?

Yep.

There are some decent homebrew solutions in this thread though.

[Pirate Rob]

I might suggest they might want to pick a functional feat instead :(

[Ravingdork]

Aye, this really needs to be addressed.

[Ghilteras]

Do we have any idea whether Treasure Vault will have tattoos? I just want to understand whether Paizo wants to leave this Feat dead in the water for ANOTHER year or if they are actually doing something about it..

[Ezekieru]

Ghilteras wrote:

Do we have any idea whether Treasure Vault will have tattoos? I just want to understand whether Paizo wants to leave this Feat dead in the water for ANOTHER year or if they are actually doing something about it..

I believe Michael Sayre said there'd be magical tattoos in Treasure Vault when they announced the book at this past PaizoCon. Not sure if it was specifically confirmed there would be Level 1 and 2 tattoos, but I'd imagine his stance on covering as many missing pieces of the game would acknowledge this and put them in.

Knowing him, he could very well pop in sometime and let us know. Not guaranteed, but worth a shot.

[Squiggit]

Pirate Rob wrote:

I might suggest they might want to pick a functional feat instead :(

I mean, the rest of the feat works fine, and those are arguably the more important parts anyways.

[Michael Sayre]

Ezekieru wrote:

I believe Michael Sayre said there'd be magical tattoos in Treasure Vault when they announced the book at this past PaizoCon. Not sure if it was specifically confirmed there would be Level 1 and 2 tattoos, but I'd imagine his stance on covering as many missing pieces of the game would acknowledge this and put them in.

Knowing him, he could very well pop in sometime and let us know. Not guaranteed, but worth a shot.

Yep, there are 6 pages of magic tattoos in Treasure Vault and one of my specific instructions starting with the assignment and then carried over through development and editing was to make sure that we had plenty of 1st and 2nd level tattoos (target number was 8, I believe, so that we don't end up with everyone who takes the feat getting the same tattoo formulas while still leaving plenty of room for new higher level options.)

[Gaulin]

That's good, nice to know that'll be in there. Now we just need weapon runes as tattoos

[Ravingdork]

Michael Sayre wrote:

Ezekieru wrote:

I believe Michael Sayre said there'd be magical tattoos in Treasure Vault when they announced the book at this past PaizoCon. Not sure if it was specifically confirmed there would be Level 1 and 2 tattoos, but I'd imagine his stance on covering as many missing pieces of the game would acknowledge this and put them in.

Knowing him, he could very well pop in sometime and let us know. Not guaranteed, but worth a shot.

Yep, there are 6 pages of magic tattoos in Treasure Vault and one of my specific instructions starting with the assignment and then carried over through development and editing was to make sure that we had plenty of 1st and 2nd level tattoos (target number was 8, I believe, so that we don't end up with everyone who takes the feat getting the same tattoo formulas while still leaving plenty of room for new higher level options.)

TOTALLY HYPED!!!

[HumbleGamer]

Wohoo, finally!