So do you use favored class bonuses? If not then what do you give them as replacements?
What are your favorite favored class bonuses?
Do you let anyone use any favored class bonus?
Does anyone NOT use them?
I like Half Elves, because they get to choose between 3 FCBs - Elf, Human and Half Elf. Even moreso in a Gestalt game.
The Elf/Halfling FCB for Occultists is basically the best one. Also the Half Elf Investigator FCB can get you some stupid good bonuses.
And no, we restrict the racial FCBs to their races. For some options I think it helps certain races keep up. For other options it just makes certain races better at those classes.
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we pretty much stick to either the +1 HP or +1 skill point, most of the oher uses of favored bonus seem too weak compared to those.
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They're cool in some cases, but they're probably unnecessary complexity. I mean, I certainly use them but if I was appointed God-King in charge of PF, I'd simplify the hell out of them in my rewrite.
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The racial FCBs should probably have been kept more rare. Every core race didn't need an FCB for every class. I'm not sure how I would have gone about that though. It might have been good to only give them for races associated with classes to partly explain why that race is associated with that class. Alternatively, they may have worked as a "patch" to allow races that would normally be suboptimal in a class to be more optimal. For example, giving dwarven sorcerors a bonus to the DCs of their spells to make up for their lack of charisma.
I spent like 5 years without a group to play with shen I first got into Pathfinder, so I love some of the complexities of the game that allow you to dig deeper into the mechanics. For a long time this was my only way to enjoy the hobby.
Having said that, outside of theory-craft lovers like me, Melkiador just summed up perfectly how it probably should have been implemented.
So for a Dwarf Sorcerer the DC would be like +1 for every 3 0r 4 levels?
Too be honest the only favored class bonuses I like other then +1 HP/Skill point are the extra spells known(I think every race should get this one) and any that grant extra feats, Rogue talents, etc.
I've built around a few of the more interesting ones before, such as the half-orcs bonus to intimidate and knowledge checks for levels of inquisitor, or the (pre-nerf) ifrit boosting the power of a revelation.
So for a Dwarf Sorcerer the DC would be like +1 for every 3 0r 4 levels?
Something like that, but it was just a "for instance". A "what if". It's just something that seems like a good idea in hindsight. Of course, you'd need to put safeguards in to make sure other races couldn't grab these by being adopted or something.
The ones that gradually accrue a small bonus over several levels are essentially useless, unless you're creating a character at a higher level so you don't have several levels where you're a few hp or skill points behind.
There are the usual balance problems; some races (human and half-human, usually) get the best, and some are stuck with junk.
I've found most FCBs go to hp, unless the character really needs more skills.
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Yeah, so unless the game starts out at level 6+ then the "gain 1/6th of an extra xyz" is pretty pointless imo.
I'm gonna disagree with this statement.
If you get +1/6 of a new Magus Arcana, then at level 6 you have a bonus feat.
So you could take the +1HP/level from your FCB and take the Extra Arcana feat, or you could take +1/6 Arcana from your FCB and take the Toughness feat.
Levels 1-5 the 1HP/level is winning.
Levels 6-11 they're even.
Levels 12-17 the +1/6 Arcana is winning.
Levels 18+ the +1/6 Arcana is SUPER winning.
Obviously it depends what levels you expect to play at, but the +1/6 Class feature options tend to be about as strong as an extra feat, and getting 3 bonus feats as your FCB doesn't sound like a bad deal.
On the whole, favored class bonuses are decent. The +1 hp or +1 skill point per level (often the skill point, given how skill starved a lot of classes are) can help out for many characters. Fast Learner (human) is pretty nice for when you want to use one of the "Heart of..." (or other traits replacing Skilled) alternate racial traits but are worried about losing the extra skill point per level (provided you have the 13+ Int to qualify).
There are two issues with how it's implemented however: multiclassing/prestige classes and alternate favored class bonuses. Multiclassing and prestige classes often feel like you need to pay a race and/or feat tax; half-elf (Multitalented), Eclectic (human), Favored Prestige Class, and/or Multitalented Mastery (half-elf). The alternate favored class bonuses for certain race/class combinations are so much better than others it pushes some people into those types of "optimal" characters, instead of being more neutral.
Well to be honest I was really replying to about 4 people who had said something similar, you were just the most recent post.
Either way, the difference I'm seeing here is that you wouldn't pick it unless your character Starts at level 6+. Sure if the game isn't going to be played past level 6 it's a bad choice, but if you're playing an AP that goes from level 1 to level 15 then making an investment in a +1/6 FCB seems fine to me.
After a bit of math...
At level 6 in a worst case scenario with +0 con the fcb could represent 35% of your HP.
At level 6 in a best case scenario with +5 con the fcb could represent 5% of your total HP.Most people would fall into the middle of this.. so let's say 20%.
If I said, do you want 20% more HP or 1 extra spell known would you immediately go for the spell?
I probably wouldn't...?
Nor would I. Of course, the FCB would give 6 extra spells known, and that I would pick over 20% more HP.
Well the FCBs that give bonus spells are usually 1 per level, so they're an easier get . But let's assume you meant the +1/6 FCBs.
The other thing to remember is that you don't have to assign your FCB choices at level 1. You could take a hitpoint there, a skill-point there and mix in some racial FCBs when you feel like it at certain levels.
So our Elven Magus taking +1/6 of an Arcana could sink all their FCBs into arcana, or they could take HP for the first 2 levels and then start nabbing some arcana .
A Human Warpriest could take Toughness and a bonus HP at level 1 for a total of +4 HP for that first level and then start working their way to a bonus feat at levels 7/13/19. Taking 2HP and then going for feats would let them snag Improved Critical at level 8 if you want to get that ASAP.
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I prefer the extra skill points over the HP more often then not.
I do like FCBs although they're just another point of optimization rather than a "reward" for choosing your race. It doesn't help that some FCBs are so strong that you feel like you're falling behind by not taking them, especially if the FCB in question is for a race that is already well suited for the class.
I would have liked FCBs to be an equalizer when choosing suboptimal races for specific classes. But Racial/Planar Heritage makes it impossible to cater to such races since you can instead just choose a race with a better stat line (half-humans or most planetouched with the ART) and pay the feat tax.
I have the same issue with racial archetypes.
Personally I think favored class bonuses shouldn't be based race especially with how many races there are and how few of them got much of any if any at all.
If you use the fast learning feat in A human you do not have to worry, what I do not like is the extra spell on wizards, witches and arcanists that is, with a successful spellcraft you do the same and You don't lose that +1 so good
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I still compare the FCB system to what it replaced: the super wonky favored class system from D&D 3rd.
It was hard to understand, required goofy calculations at every level and potentially after every encounter, and in the end the best you could get was the lack of a penalty. Not a good system any way you look at it.
So then I find Pathfinder, and instead of "are all your classes within one level of each other excepting your favored class? If not, you lose a percentage of xp!", I see "favored class? +1hp or skill." Elegant. Easy. And most importantly, an incentive instead of a deterrent. Brilliantly done.
It's right up there with the difference in skill points and class skills in terms of the reasons I switched over to Pathfinder.
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I don't like the way favored class bonuses vary between amazing (my half-elf investigator gets +1 on all inspiration rolls every 4 levels!) and nearly pointless (my halfling investigator doesn't have to pay to add a formula to his formula book).
I do like the FCBs that are somewhat unique and encourage you to use a race whose stats otherwise aren't ideal for the class. Dwarves have a lot of these, like reducing arcane spell failure chance in heavy armor as a skald or crafting magic items super-fast as a wizard.
I'm glad I helped =)
Though if you usually don't get to level 6 then I think *Thelith's advice is probably much better. Planning for the long game is only worthwhile if you can survive the short game.
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I'm dissatisfied with the way FCBs have evolved, because it's another example of power creep that made 3.5 unwieldy and arguably added to PF1's over-complexity. Specifically, it's the race-specific FCBs that were introduced after the core +1 to hp or skill points. Examples of this have already been given in this thread, but my complaint is about the uneven benefits between race/class combinations and the arbitrary way they seem to have been designed.
Granted, FCBs are not even close to the worst offenders of PF1E power/complexity creep (I dislike traits much more than FCBs for this reason), and I have to second Quixote's point about the core FCBs being a much better solution to their 3.5 counterpart.
I do love the extra spells known FCB for spontaneous casters. But if all those classes had an extra spell known for each spell level from 1st to 9th when you get each spell level then I wouldn't care about that FCB anymore.
I do love skill points;)
Does anyone use the FCBs that add HP or skill points to your animal companion/mount/eidolon?
They should all be more even in strength.. but I don't see how it adds complexity..
It's one more thing to keep track of, but that's not complex, that's bookkeeping..
I think it's more complexity in character creation more than in keeping track once you're started. Sometimes the FCB is so powerful it can change the balance between different races for a certain class.
The Occultist is the latest one that I've used. Humans and Half-Orcs with their floating +1 to any stat are always good choices, but the Elf FCB is so much more powerful that it pushes Elf and Half-Elf out in front. Those extra points into Resonant Powers can be game changing, not to mention the power of some of your Focus Powers .
Or sticking with Half-Elves, their Investigator FCB changes the balance of the class completely. By level 20 you can get it to ~+15.8 to rolls, and you can potentially use it on all skill checks, attack rolls, Initiative checks and Ability Checks for free by this point .
Now as I said I like the FCB mechanic but I do think it's gone beyond the intended scope at this point. The original intent has been replaced by another mechanic that rewards a high level of system mastery.
I do love skill points;)
Does anyone use the FCBs that add HP or skill points to your animal companion/mount/eidolon?
I did, kinda. +1/4 luck bonus to saving throws for my halfling hunter's companion.
Mostly I just use the skill or hp bonus. It's easier and several of my latest characters are Warpriests and Clerics (which only get 2 per level!) and really need the extra rank. Plus some of my characters don't even have a FCB for their race/class combo.
What are the weakest favored class bonuses you have ever seen?
A tengu has a bite attack that deals 1d3 points of damage.
Gain a +1/2 insight bonus on attack rolls made with the beak as a secondary natural attack (to a maximum of +3); the brawler must have a beak natural attack to select this option.
A brawler with natural weapons can’t use such weapons as part of brawler’s flurry, nor can she make natural weapon attacks in addition to her brawler’s flurry attacks.
The only way for a tengu to use their bite/beak as a secondary natural attack is if they're doing it as part of a full-attack with manufactured weapons. Brawler's Flurry is incompatible with natural attacks.
Why?
I always think the "Gain a +1/3 bonus on critical hit confirmation rolls made while using Smite-Evil/Studied-Combat/etc" FCBs are pretty bad. I think they're all Half-Orc.
It's 1/12th the power of a feat, so it's half as good as all those +1/6 FCBs we talked about earlier. Technically better than +1HP, which is 1/20th of a feat, but there are caveats.
First: It's only active while smiting/whatever. This is fine for investigators since they should always be using Studied-Combat, but it would still be annoying if you killed your studied target, rolled a Nat-20 on the other guy attacking you and failed to confirm the crit because the FCB doesn't count for this attack.
Second: It has the power of a feat (eventually), but it doesn't satisfy prerequisites and it doesn't stack with Critical Focus. If you want to invest into crits then there's a good chance you want to invest in critical effects, and this doesn't help with that.
So has anyone used the human FCB for Cleric and/or Paladin?
Cleric +1 caster level check vs outsiders.
Paladin- +1 energy resistance.
I had a paladin who collected fire resistance using the human FCB. I made it to level 10 on him (but had only 9 fire resist, for some reason). *shrug* It came up a few times.
Not a terrible benefit. The PC had plenty of hit points, and I didn't focus on skills too much, so fire resist is what I chose. Certainly better than the ultra-specific half-orc FCB for paladin.
Add +1/3 on critical hit confirmation rolls made while using smite evil (maximum bonus of +5). This bonus does not stack with Critical Focus.
99% of the time I just use the +1 hp or +1 skill rank. Which one depends very much on the character--sometimes I need just one more trained skill at low level, sometimes I just want the extra life insurance.
I have used the half-orc shaman FCB to add a handful of cleric spells to a PC's list, and I've put all my human magus's FCB into extra pool points. One of my kids decided to take the bonus to stabilize for his half-orc fighter for all 5 levels before he qualified for the PrC he wanted; it's rarely come into play, but it was a nice thematic fit with the "tough as nails" concept of the character. And I think the same kid used a summoner's FCB to help the eidolon (because, TBH, the eidolon is where most of the fun of that class lies). Offhand, I can't think of any other special FCBs I've used in characters I've built (or helped build).
I don't think I've ever seen a FCB that was SO good that it guided the character build; it's always just been a useful side benefit.
So has anyone used the human FCB for Cleric and/or Paladin?
Cleric +1 caster level check vs outsiders.
Paladin- +1 energy resistance.
I haven't actually played this character, but I have an Invincible Paladin PFS build who uses the Human Paladin FCB.
Human, stats at level 1 are something like S-(15+2), D-14, C-14, I-7, W-10, C-15.
Classes (Archetypes): Paladin (Hospitaler), Monk (Unchained, Scaled Fist), Fighter (Unbreakable).
Traits:
- ALDORI CAUTION
- UNSCATHED
Progression and feats
1. P1 - Fey Foundling, Power Attack
2. P2
3. P3 - Greater Mercy
4. P4
5. M1 - Dodge, Crane Style
6. M2 - Combat Reflexes
7. F1 - Stalwart
8. P5
9. P6 - Ultimate Mercy
10. P7
11. P8 - Improved Stalwart
Important items:
- Meditation Crystal
- Bracere of the Merciful Knight
- Big 6, probably want a STR belt and a CHA headband.
He ends up as an 11th level character with fairly high HP, heavy armour, DR:10/- and the ability to heal 7d6+14 HP up to 13 times a day, for a total of ~500HP from LoH . He also gets Energy Resistsnce 4 vs Acid/Cold/Fire/Electricity from the FCB and the Unscathed trait.
I don't think I've ever seen a FCB that was SO good that it guided the character build; it's always just been a useful side benefit.
The two best FCB's I've seen are the Elf/Halfling Occultist FCB ...
Add 1/2 point of mental focus per day.
... and the Half-Elf Investigator FCB.
Gain a +1/4 bonus on all inspiration rolls.
The Occultist ALWAYS wants more Mental Focus. They Focus Powers are often more powerful than their spells, and the Resonant powers can be game-breaking. Since the best resonant powers require heavy investment you often have to choose between them, but getting more Mental Focus means you can often take/use the best Implements together where other races could not. Also, this FCB is worth 1/4 of a feat, so that's would be worth 5 feats over your carreer, and even if someone wanted to invest in more Mental Focus, the EXTRA MENTAL FOCUS feat lacks the stipulation that it can be taken more than once, so you couldn't take this feat twice if you wanted to.
For Investigators it's more that Inspiration can effect EVERYTHING. With just a couple of Arcana you can have free inspirstion to a HUGE number of skills, there's an Archetype that gives free inspiration to Initiative , you can get cheaper Inspiration to attack rolls and saves, and with an INSPIRED WEAPON it becomes a damage bonus too. At level 4 it's probably just a +1 to knowledge skills, but by level 9 it's a +2 to most skills, important attack rolls and saves, and +4 to the damage rolls of those attack rolls. By level 13 you can reliably roll 5-8 on your Inspiration dice, and adding this FCB brings that to a +8-11 .
So has anyone used the human FCB for Cleric and/or Paladin?
Cleric +1 caster level check vs outsiders.
Paladin- +1 energy resistance.
I haven’t, but according to Reign of Winter, a point of cold resistance can make you immune to cold weather. So that could be a good dip for some APs
+1 to penetrate spell resistance vs. outsiders seems like it might be worthwhile in an appropriate campaign - an AP with Hell's in the name for example. Not for every instance of the FCB, just pick it up a handful of times at later levels.
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So has anyone used the human FCB for Cleric and/or Paladin?
Cleric +1 caster level check vs outsiders.
Paladin- +1 energy resistance.
I saw a player take the energy resist, but it was on an aasimar who counted as human. Use it to buff their existing resists, and took the trait to increase energy all resists by 2