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I don't get critical fail for spell saves.

Fireball to the face, I did a really bad job of avoiding that fireball so I took even more damage than it normally does??


Hythlodeus wrote:
*Thelith wrote:


where we use inches feet yards and miles.

you should consider using commas too

Most of the time I do. You should capitalize, and use periods.

Forgive me for writing informally on a message board!


How far away are those mountains?

65000 squares.

Thanks, that's helpful.

It's a game, made in America, where we use inches feet yards and miles.

In any game you have to learn the rules, a square being 5 ft is a rule. What's the problem?

In WoW you have ranges in yards, that's even more global than pathfinder and they use imperial. Does anyone need to know how big a yard is to use that spell? No.

I can convert imperial to metric in my head close enough to visualize a dragon, that can't be a serious argument.

Feet/3 = meters. That's pretty much the only conversion that could really be needed in game.


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The realism of fantasy armour is not the hill I want to die on.

Tradition is why Pathfinder exists.

Studded leather isn't going anywhere.


Mark Seifter wrote:
*Thelith wrote:

I don't see how *almost* immunity to death makes any sense though: 3 hp left, hit for 150, now dying 1. Healed for 1 hp, now you're not dying, hit for 150, dying 1, healed for 1 hp... Etc.

Actually, that would be 3 hp left, hit for 150, now dying 1 (or maybe dead). Healed for 1 hp awake, but still dying 1, hit for 150, KOed and dying 2, and so on until you die.

When does the dying go away then? And you said awake? Healing awakens you? Or do you have to roll to wake up?


Mark Seifter wrote:
SorrySleeping wrote:

The guy with 8 con will die faster. It is represented in his HP rather than his HP and his Negative HP.

I have no idea what you mean by an "important" guy, since every enemy works the same way.

Not to mention that 8 Con is going to die faster from critically failing that Fortitude save.

He has a CHANCE to die faster, the 18 con could fail too.

And I said given the same maximum HP.

Someone mentioned that the bbeg would take you to dying 2 rather than 1? If that's a misunderstanding then I take back that specific issue.


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I don't see how *almost* immunity to death makes any sense though: 3 hp left, hit for 150, now dying 1. Healed for 1 hp, now you're not dying, hit for 150, dying 1, healed for 1 hp... Etc.

There is a reason high levels are rare...it's dangerous!


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I'm not against dying being easier.

But a guy with 8 con should die faster than one with 18. Given the same maximum HP, the guy with more con should be better off.

And why an "important" guy can kill you deader than an unimportant one???

What about a crit from an important one? Will that auto kill?

It feels like an unnecessary change, I have not seen the major complaints about dying?


Yes, healing before they are down is better, that's not different in either scenario.


To me,there is nothing wrong with suddenly dying because you took a crit to the face with a scythe unexpectedly or a max roll fireball.

At high levels, you would still wait for them to die and hit them with breath of life because its 1 spell and will remove the dying condition completely, and it wakes you up!!

You can always go down at 5 hp, you're a bloody mess and if you go down and don't move most things will move on to the guy still attacking, so if you're low and stay up, that's a choice, it doesn't need to be a forced choice baked into the dying rules.


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Yeah, because no one ever exaggerates on forums. Ever. Also, we all know it was an exaggeration, so let's not all be snowflakes and attack me.

Rather than just complain about my choice of exaggeration, why not add something useful to the conversation? Half the posts here add nothing to the topic.

I am very strongly against the change and thus used an extreme analogy.

The rule change doesn't improve anything, why wouldn't you be able to get up and back into the fight after ! MAGIC ! has completely restored you to 100%?

Why would you after taking 300 HP damage from 1-50 sword hits be 3 bad rolls away from death? Yes, that could happen before but was less likely.

In combat healing has always been a bad choice, maybe that is changing, but it's even worse now if that after you heal someone they are still out of the fight...


Reading/hearing about the new death rules makes me want to kill myself...which with the new rules would be basically impossible.

I don't understand why this had to change, it seems more complicated and less fun.

Why would someone suddenly go unconscious? Just because you are dying doesn't mean you lose consciousness. How would someone know you need healing without yelling for the medic? Maybe you were just tripped, being prone doesn't mean you're dying.

Why wouldn't being fully healed via "heal" automatically grant you consciousness? You still need to "wake up" on your turn?

Honestly I really hope this change gets nixed during playtest because it doesn't feel like pathfinder.


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Tectorman wrote:

Speaking of pipedreams, here's a big one. Please follow Starfinder's shining example and make alignment a completely optional part of the game, such that players that simply don't buy into the notion that being lawful or chaotic or some other specific combination as being integral or even peripherally related to having a character who has abilities best represented by the Monk or Barbarian or Paladin classes don't have to fight an uphill battle to play their heroic characters alongside other Pathfinder players.

Spending a Saturday afternoon playing a fantasy RPG simply shouldn't be an exercise in exiling other players for badwrongfun character concepts any longer (it never needed to be the case in the first place, but here's an opportunity to nip that awful practice in the bud once and for all).

Please don't do this.


No, he's wondering if a rule changed...


Strange... There is another thread about making multiclassing less good in PF2....

I just hope that customization doesn't decrease, that would be bad.

I like to call it "WoWification"(as in World of Warcraft) which basically means the simplification and reduction of options via updates/editions.

I don't want a 7 year old who is new to the game to be able to design a mechanically equal character when compared to an adult with years of system mastery... That is what WoW has become, that is what 5e became.

I like pathfinder because it's NOT that, if PF2 does that, I will not play it.


Meant metric users but too late to edit :)


I don't understand how feet is so incomprehensible to imperial users here??

Look down at your adult male shoe... That's about a foot...

Now line 20 of your shoes in a row... That's 20 feet....

Feet are super easy to visualize because part of your body literally represents that unit of measure.

Or.. each story of a building is approximately 10 feet.. 2 story house? That's what a 20 ft dragon looks like.

4 story building? That's a gargantuan giant.


Jason Bulmahn wrote:

I want to point out one subtle point here that really changes the dynamic. In PF1 if you were at death's door, (16 Con fighter at -15) and you got healed to 5 hp by a spell, you would indeed get right back up and be in danger of going down again with almost any hit.

In PF2 that same healing effect would put you up to 20 (because we don't do negatives). Once you made the save to get up, you would stand a much better chance of staying up for at least a hit or two, giving you the time needed to get some more healing if needed. We want you to feel the pressure of being so close to death that it alters your actions and the actions of the other characters around you. When an ally is critically hurt, we want the narrative to respond.

Shouldn't a certain amount of healing also provide a "smelling salts" effect?

In most cases you can force someone back into consciousness, I would think that getting healed for a large amount would do this and not require another save a round later... Maybe a free save when the healing hits with a bonus on your roll for every 10hp healed??

Bam I'm down dying 1.. my cleric buddy hit me with HEAL and I'm full health with no conditional ailments but I can't regain consciousness because I keep rolling a 2.... Ludicrous.


RedHydra wrote:

From what I gather, the only way for a PC to chop off someones hand is through called shots. The system makes sense in some areas such as the penalty or the effects of each hit body part. However, to lob off a characters limb you need a debilitating blow which is where I think it gets weird.

According to UC this is how a debilitating blow works.

Debilitating Blow: A called shot that deals half the creature’s hit points of damage (minimum 50) or more (whether a critical hit or not) results in a debilitating blow that has extra effects. A debilitating blow inflicts major consequences and potentially permanent consequences.

Going off of these rules, does that mean the average level 1-4 PC is immune to dismemberment due to the 50 HP requirement? Even if they have Greater Called Shot (reduces the debilitating blow requirement to 40 hp) that would still mean that characters are immune to the effect of getting their hand chopped off.

I have an encounter for my hardcore party to try where the opposition tries to end fights as quickly as possible by just taking body parts off (think monty python)

Even if there is no official ruling on how to take off limbs at lower levels, as a gm how would you run it?

No, the objective is not to kill the PCs, I would just use a vorpal weapon for the same effect.

The 50 how requirement is the damage of the blow needs to be at least 50 and also be at least half of the HP. It has nothing to do with how much hp the victim has.

You must do 50 dmg or more to cause a debilitating blow, that amount must also equal at least half of the victims max HP.


Would it help if the names were:

Simple weapons
Complex weapons
Labyrinthine weapons

Exotic=/= Asian

It means it has better weapon properties and thus makes it harder to use.


^ you want a crossbow that you can shoot once every 3 rounds, that almost auto-kills any human it hits? That's "historical"...


It's okay for ranged to do "full attack " when possible, and it's okay for it to be possible often. Melee want to full attack as often as they can too...

To balance the "ease" of full attacking the penalties for shooting into melee and for shooting people who have moved and people more than 30 feet away should be more severe. 1 feat and you have no penalty for shooting into melee.. that's more powerful than most feats.

There is no penalty for shooting someone who is running full speed , there is no penalty for shooting someone who is running in a zigzag.. if those penalties existed and there were ways to reduce those penalties via "careful aim"--1 attack no penalties and maybe some precision damage... Then archers would do different things.


Perception is letting you detect something that is hard to detect... Thus the modifiers.

There is no perception check to see a man standing in an empty field 1000' away, you just see him.

If he trying to hide he gets stealth + distance modifiers, because if you're hiding behind a bush from a distance you can't tell if it's just a bush or a bush with a guy behind it.

A mountain is not trying to hide, nor is the sun--which has a -trillion to see it--

Perception isn't tied to being able to see things, it's tied to being able to detect things that are not obvious.

That being said, archery should probably be changed..range should have a _far_ larger impact than it does.


^ you mean like magic??!! :)


+5-7 on a fighter reflex save at level 14 could be doubling your save...that seems pretty good to me...

Maybe fighters don't get it earlier because they are busy getting better offensive stuff earlier...?


If they remove alignment we can't have paladins. We need paladins and we need them to be LG.

*Opens can of worms*

Seriously though, alignment needs to exist, otherwise why bother playing?

90% of adventures: stop this bad guy / help this good guy.

Alignment is what separates the "good guys" from the "bad guys".

I'd guess 90%+ of games are played with the PCs fighting against " Evil ", if evil doesn't exist, what is there to fight against?


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For me it's important that it's still on the pathfinder /3.5 chassis.. if not it's not the same game, which will be disappointing.


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I think I like the old one. :)

Your math work is appreciated.


CrystalSeas wrote:
MidsouthGuy wrote:
If goblins are going to be a core race, I want to see tieflings, aasimars, and Dragon Empires races in the corebook too.
They've already said that there's only going to be one new core race.

Maybe a large race.

Cantaurs! Half ogre? Something non-humanoid so enlarge person isn't a problem.


Give heavy crossbows touch attacks instead of AC.

That represents them piercing armor like in real life.

Rate of fire can be lower than a bow, and damage can be similar because the hit rate should be higher.


Not dipping just needs to be more attractive numbers wise than dipping.. if a specific idea requires it, great. Don't take that away.

But a lvl 20 xxx should be better than 17x/1y/1z/1xy


Personally, I love healing.

In almost every game (rpg/MMORPG/mud etc) I've played a healer if it was available.

People hate to heal, which makes people who do heal even more appreciated.

I don't want to see healing nerfed and wizards and fighters self healing.

Heal skill being more useful- that's good.
Healing magic just as good- that's good too.

Choosing to play without a healer should be harder... Not impossible but it should hurt.


In general he would level when you are capable of having a higher level cohort, which is basically when you level.

He starts with level appropriate npc gear and after that you equip him out of your wealth.

You can't have multiples.

He doesn't get your modifiers.

As Taja said, Leadership is almost always banned in games, and when it is not how it works is always debated.


I interpret it this way: ghosts are not capable of having natural armor, nor are any incorporeal creatures.

It may or may not be RAW but it is moat definitely RAI...


Emageht wrote:
I just hope that the inevitable pathfinder version 2 clears up any and all of these CONFUSING rules.

It won't.

It's still not written by PhD English professors and Harvard lawyers.

However, by raw, arrows are unaffected.


Also can you not use two weapon fighting with this? It seems like this is it's own action? So you can't? I don't know how they interact...if not you only have two attacks..

Edit: nevermind, looks like you should be fine to use it based on the wording.

You'll be feat starved though for taking twf.


The problem with this is that you don't get SA on your first attack, the one that is most likely to hit. You still provoke AOOs, you have to have room to 5 foot. Obviously it's a good choice for a solo rogue but a rogue shouldn't be solo and after the first round you should have a flank to help you. That being said.. I REALLY like the mechanical idea of this feat. I think it shouldn't provoke and it would be great.


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Rambo.

He's just a guy. And he uses a bow and arrow against Marines... And wins.


I agree that Exotic weapons are not really... exotic.
There are a couple of things I think would be an interesting change to make weapons more exotic..

1st. Stat requirements: Str or Dex depending on type of weapon--starting at 22 which essentially removes the possibility of seeing them until level ~4.

2nd. Level requirements: Certain types of weapons take "years" of training, so to use a double-edged-dwarven-war-pickaxe-shovel-hammer you need to have +6 BAB and be proficient in the martial version of its weapon type.

3rd. Exotic weapons need to be "more" than just better damage dice. I use this "random named exotic weapon" because it has a 5% chance to disarm an opponent on a successful hit. Or I use this other "random named exotic weapon" because it bypasses shield bonuses to AC. etc. etc.

Just some thoughts...


thaX wrote:
I had thought there was a rule somewhere that a character could "pull his punch" and only take a guy to -1 if he wanted. Can't seem to find it though.

It's a rogue thing ;)


How do you have two favored classes?

If you used bloodrager as a favored class you can't also do spiritualist.

So 10+3 for first level = 13
13 + (5+3)*6 = 61
61+7(toughness) = 68
If you have the +5 more from favored class somehow then 68+5= 73

I have no knowledge to offer about the phantom.


"Healing Nonlethal Damage: You heal nonlethal damage at the rate of 1 hit point per hour per character level. "

Non-lethal defined as hit point damage.

Stop arguing. Please.


Honestly... Why?

Coordinated shot requires point blank shot, it requires you and your ally to have this feat, and requires your ally to be adjacent to your enemy.

Why would someone with point blank shot (a ranged build) be adjacent to an enemy?

Why would a melee build burn two feats to help you (sometimes ) do +1 damage?

I would allow the trait to counter the cover condition, but by absolute RAW, I guess not.

I would just forget the feat, pick a different trait, and a better feat.


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I can't even fathom how this is an argument....

Power attack works with non lethal... Period.

If I am unarmed and don't have improved unarmed strike I can only deal non lethal... I most definitely can power attack with my fist.

I'm dumbfounded by what I've read in this thread trying to prove otherwise.


Firebug wrote:

You can get close with Brew Potion.

How much gold do you want to spend and how much do you want to heal?
Make a potion of Curative Distillation (Advanced Players Guide, assuming from cleric list, 3rd level CL 5, 750 gp) will heal for 1d8+5 "and grant the benefits of the material component". In this case, another potion of Curative Distillation for another 1d8+5.
And again. And again.
A "real" potion of Heal (CL 11) would cure 110 hp, and some conditions. Looking at just the HP healed, we would need approximately (with a potion of Cure Serious at the end) 10 Curative Distillations, for an average of 113.5 hp healed. 8250 gp.

Oh, and you can use Alchemical Allocation with it.

Plus all of the condition removal.... So probably another 10 different potions for another 8250...


Weight makes a huge deal.. I have a rogue who uses obsidian daggers because they weigh less.. to keep him under light load... Sub 30 lbs is hard to manage sometimes...


A horse doesn't fit well in a small dungeon or up a tree..


Reincarnation is supposed to be random... Sounds super lucky to be human again..

Roll for age.. 15+d6 or whatever the class dictates the age should be.


I find it silly that brew potion stops at level 3. I'd just use brew potion rules and allow brew potion to not cap.
Availability of those potions would be limited though...


So almost average looking and 5 int is higher than a dolphin or dog or elephant which are all smart enough to problem solve... Obviously it's a mechanical negative modifier but you can still contribute...

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