Best buff you can give...?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


When it comes to late game buffs, which ones are going to matter the most and make the biggest different?

I know Bards can jack up their Inspire Courage quiet a bit. But I doubt it counts as the best possible buff. Bards have Greater Heroism and Haste, too... which as a package is pretty nice.

Speaking of Haste...
12th level Sensei Monk of the Four Winds can use Mystic Wisdom to hand out Stop Time, which can give free (to them) Standard Actions to the party.

Action economy is the most precious resource of all, and Haste has always been considered a decent buff because of its interactions with action economy. Short of Mythic, what are some of the best late game buffs that will make the biggest impact? They don't have to be related to action economy, but anything that adds extra actions takes priority over any flat bonuses to damage. In fact, bonuses to accuracy take priority over bonuses to damage, in my opinion.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Blessing of Fervor probably ranks among the top buffs you can give out, given that it is a "choose your own adventure" type of buff with multiple possible benefits. One of my groups certainly always tries to have it available to them rather sooner than later.

I'm personally also very fond of Good Hope, since it is Heroism on steroids for everybody in the party in range. Also, you can use a cheap Extend metamagic rod to get around the shorter duration somewhat.

Talking about Bard only spells, Arcane Concordance also can make arcane buffing very, very long-lasting.


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Standard answer for all such questions: Depends on the party. Some things that jump to mind:

I once calculated the effect of Haste on my Summoner's Party's total damage output to be on par with that of one of the main damage dealers. That was with all melees having pounce, and no one investing into Boots of Speed, though.
If you have multiple melees without move-and-full-attack option, a Skald sharing Greater Beast Totem is huge. Speaking of Skald, Court Poet grants a bonus to Intelligence and Charisma, which can be a strong boost in a caster heavy party (and it stacks with Arcane Concordance).
Brown-Fur Transmuter Arcanist can cast personal-range transmutation spells on others, which is especially powerful with Monstrous Physique II+.

VoodistMonk wrote:
12th level Sensei Monk of the Four Winds can use Mystic Wisdom to hand out Stop Time, which can give free (to them) Standard Actions to the party.

Those standard actions can't be used to cast spells or to make full-attacks, but they're huge for Witches/Shamans, Kineticists, and vital strike-based characters (especially Cave Druids turnign into Carnivorous Crystals). It's also Haste+Pounce for melees.


Smite Evil is the best buff in the game, and Aura of Justice gives it to everyone.

Aura of Justice = it doesn't matter who your BBEG is, just hand over the loot.


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I’ll put in a claim for Hunter’s Blessing, because of the ridiculously long duration. In a fair few campaigns it’s +2 on everything for the entire day, and it’s a sacred bonus so stacks with a lot of the other classic buffs.


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Related to Derklord's Brown-Fur Transmuter, many full caster spells become very potent buffs if you have the ability to ignore the "Personal" limitation of them. Such as through the Bonded Mind/Share Spells teamwork feats and a Ring of Tactical Precision.

Glimpse of the Akashic is normally only available to the HD 6 half-BAB Psychic (or the Cyclopean Seer Oracle) but can then be used to buff allies. Which is a pretty crazy buff considering how easy it is to pre-buff and its strong effect.

Quote:
For the next day, you can activate the knowledge gained from the Akashic Record as a free action; when you do so, you gain a circumstance bonus equal to your caster level on all skill checks, ability checks, attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws, and combat maneuver checks for 1 minute.

Silver Crusade

magnuskn wrote:
I'm personally also very fond of Good Hope, since it is Heroism on steroids for everybody in the party in range. Also, you can use a cheap Extend metamagic rod to get around the shorter duration somewhat.

And Good Hope can be further augmented with Moment of Greatness.


Momemt of Greatness is good, clean fun. I like using it to augment the benefits of the Flagbearer/Banner of Ancient Kings combination... which, essentially provides Heroism as a constant effect.

That Court Poet Skald with Insightful Contemplation and Arcane Concordance... it's like giving a weapon to THE weapon. Lol. Imagine something like that with other such things, like VMC Cavalier for Order of the Staff, and handing out Allied Spellcaster with Tactician? Find a way to join a Coven...

The Brown-Fur Arcanist handing out Monstrous Physique to everyone is awesome. I really want to like Monstrous Physique, I just haven't found a way to use that I really like (yet)... maybe just giving it to everyone else is an approach I will like.

Wow, that Cyclopean-Seer Oracle could be neat... probably use the Succor Mystery for Teamwork Mastery, possibly even VMC Cavalier (Order of the Dragon)... that would really help out being able to ensure everyone had the proper teamwork feats to share personal spells. Glimpse of Akashic leaves you Stunned after using it, so make it count...

Everyone that gets Glimpse of Akashic from the Oracle needs to wait to activate it until the Paladin starts their Aura of Justice. Aura of Justice is super strong. Especially if the Paladin is buffed by a Court Poet's Inspired Contemplation. It goes full circle. Lol.


Spellcasting Contract is pretty good..... handing out spells in return for buffs is always good

Silver Crusade

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Teamwork. Not the type of feats, just teamwork.


THIRD EYE is pretty good. A lot of resonant powers are good, but I think Third Eye is the most generically good.

Though it's pretty expensive. You have to spend a lot of focus points on being really good at something, then give that thing away to make someone else about half as good as you would have been with it.

Still, sometimes it's worthwhile.


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Oli Ironbar wrote:
Teamwork. Not the type of feats, just teamwork.

Fact.

I played a strength-based Tengu cRogue in a 15pt buy game. Izzek was not optimized for damage... instead he had traits like Armor Expert and Know the Land. He took feats like Nature Magic for constant Know Direction and 1/day Purify Food & Water. Took the Wild Magic Rogue Talent for 3/day Create Water... anyways, what he did have was a reliable flanking buddy.

Urk was a your typical Bardiche-wielding Half-Orc Fighter. He wasn't smart or pretty, but he was strong and dependable. Urk and Izzek were quite effective together. Flanking allowed Izzek to actually hit reliably... yeah Sneak Attack and stuff... but actually hitting was what counted most. Despite being strength-based and swinging a Greatsword, Izzek lagged in both base attack bonus AND overall Strength compared to Urk. Between the flanking bonus and the Rogue Talent that gives you Weapon Focus, Izzek could be counted on to reliably hit most of the time.

Izzek earned himself the Scout archetype after charging a mini-boss, saving another party member from being sacrificed. The AoO he took from the gross bug-person's glass syringe spear brought Izzek down to 1hp. And after that, Izzek could charge in order to get the same bonus flanking gives to attack (and damage, for that matter, from Scout's Charge), but our tactics didn't change much. Izzek would never charge further than heavy armor wearing Urk could move and attack.

Just because you get new toys, don't forget your boys. Despite having the option to charge into battle solo and still gain both an accuracy bonus and lock in Sneak Attack, Izzek stayed near Urk. Flanking an enemy also gives Urk an accuracy bonus, obviously. And that means Urk still lands every attack even with Power Attack. Between (literally) Urk's Power Attack and Izzek's Sneak Attack, enemies were butchered in short order.

It was meant to be a super difficult campaign. We started off with the stupid 15pt buy, super restricted class list (thus cRogue, not UnChained), and everyone built characters geared more for survival and well-rounded play versus power-gaming. However, we broke it with teamwork. Everyone carried more than their own weight, and we rolled strong.

Even being a party of three, we destroyed his so-called super difficult campaign setting through smart, and dedicated team-oriented strategy. No teamwork feats required. No metagaming between players away from the table. But fluid communication between the in-game characters, and dedicated practice of the same techniques. Urk and Izzek mastered battlefield positioning simply through constantly setting up flanking.


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I think that one of the best late game buffs is,

Heart of the Mammoth
Source Dragonslayer's Handbook pg. 29
School transmutation; Level arcanist 8, cleric 8, druid 8, oracle 8, sorcerer 8, witch 8, wizard 8
Casting
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, F (a fetish of mammoth hair soaked in dragon’s blood)
Effect
Range touch
Target creature touched
Duration 1 round/level
Saving Throw Will (harmless); Spell Resistance no
Description
The target creature becomes stronger, hardier, and imbued with the courage of the greatest megafauna of the tundra. The spell grants a +8 enhancement bonus to Strength and Constitution, immunity to fear, a +4 morale bonus to Will saves, and doubles the critical threat range of all its attacks against creatures of the dragon type (this does not stack with Improved Critical, keen edge, or similar effects).


VoodistMonk wrote:
Wow, that Cyclopean-Seer Oracle could be neat...

I used that archetype for the "spank the lich" thread, coincidentally. An Oracle with Equipment Trick can take Glimpse of the Akashic at level 16 instead of level 18, although that would also require the Heighten spell metamagic feat as there's no lv 8 Oracle spell with the light descriptor afaik.

Either way there's a lot of CL boosting available when you can take your time. Prayer Beads (+4), resonant power from an Agate Ellipsoid (+1), Harrow Chosen trait (+2), Orange Prism (+1), Dew of Lunary alchemical reagent (+1), and any feats you'd spend on it. Slap on a Greater Rod of Extend and the spell lasts for 48 hours, allowing you to regain spell slots without a doubt.


Drago Thrune wrote:

I think that one of the best late game buffs is,

Heart of the Mammoth
Source Dragonslayer's Handbook pg. 29
School transmutation; Level arcanist 8, cleric 8, druid 8, oracle 8, sorcerer 8, witch 8, wizard 8
Casting
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, F (a fetish of mammoth hair soaked in dragon’s blood)
Effect
Range touch
Target creature touched
Duration 1 round/level
Saving Throw Will (harmless); Spell Resistance no
Description
The target creature becomes stronger, hardier, and imbued with the courage of the greatest megafauna of the tundra. The spell grants a +8 enhancement bonus to Strength and Constitution, immunity to fear, a +4 morale bonus to Will saves, and doubles the critical threat range of all its attacks against creatures of the dragon type (this does not stack with Improved Critical, keen edge, or similar effects).

the problem with this spell is that by the time you can cast it, your characters that would benefit the most from STR/CON already have a +6 STR/CON item, so are only getting a +2 Bonus, trivial for an 8th level spell. the fear and will save boost are situational at best, and the crit range boost is worthless unless you are specifically going after a dragon.

Dark Archive

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I really like the spell 9 lives.link but there are better spells


We all know the best buff is sanctuary,
Or expeditious retreat...


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For a party buff that comes on line relatively early, doesn't tap into party resources to any great degree and has multiple use potential:

LIBERATION DOMAIN
Freedom's Call (Su): At 8th level, you can emit a 30-foot aura of freedom for a number of rounds per day equal to your cleric level. Allies within this aura are not affected by the confused, grappled, frightened, panicked, paralyzed, pinned, or shaken conditions. This aura only suppresses these effects, and they return once a creature leaves the aura or when the aura ends, if applicable. These rounds do not need to be consecutive.


Liberation is legit, and it came in clutch for the party more than once in the Kingmaker campaign I ran.

Does Tactician even rank as a buff? How big of an impact does a free feat or two make? Dwarven Scholar Bards can hand out Combat Feats, not just Teamwork Feats, if that matters at all.

At later levels, it's saves that make or break most encounters... are rerolls or flat bonuses better buffs in this regard?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Only problem with the Liberation domain: You only get it from being a Cleric (or Inquisitor) of Desna, Milani or Sun Wukong, or a list of really not well known Empyreal Lords and other demigods. But mostly of Desna, because all the others are much less well known deities/demi-gods.

I guess I'm still grumpy Cayden Cailean, the god of freedom, didn't get the Liberation domain. ^^


Overall the best bet for party buff would be to take the Freedom subdomain as you would get:

Liberty’s Blessing (Sp): You touch a willing creature as a standard action, granting it a boon. A creature with this boon can, as a swift action, make a saving throw against a single spell or effect it is suffering from that grants a save. The DC of the saving throw is equal to the original DC of the spell or effect. If the saving throw is successful, the effect ends. This boon lasts for 1 minute or until successfully used to remove a spell or effect, whichever duration is shorter. You can use this ability for a number of times equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

Freedom's Call (Su): At 8th level, you can emit a 30-foot aura of freedom for a number of rounds per day equal to your cleric level. Allies within this aura are not affected by the confused, grappled, frightened, panicked, paralyzed, pinned, or shaken conditions. This aura only suppresses these effects, and they return once a creature leaves the aura or when the aura ends, if applicable. These rounds do not need to be consecutive.

The party becomes almost immune to a huge amount of nasties!


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VoodistMonk wrote:

Liberation is legit, and it came in clutch for the party more than once in the Kingmaker campaign I ran.

Does Tactician even rank as a buff? How big of an impact does a free feat or two make? Dwarven Scholar Bards can hand out Combat Feats, not just Teamwork Feats, if that matters at all.

At later levels, it's saves that make or break most encounters... are rerolls or flat bonuses better buffs in this regard?

I'd definitely count Tactician as a buff.

As to rerolls:

- Rolling twice and taking the better result (eg. Fortune Hex) gives you an average of +3.325 to your roll. However it also changes the odds of each number rolled, meaning your chance of rolling a Nat-1 drops from 5% to 0.25%, and your chance of rolling a Nat-20 increases from 5% to 9.75% (and your chance of rolling a 15+ for all you crit-fishers increases from 30% to 51%).

- Rerolls are slightly better than roll twice take the better, since chances are you're only going to reroll when rolled low in the first place (as opposed to a "Roll-Twice" ability that might have you roll an 18 an a 19 and waste the effect). This one's hard to quantify mathematically, but my DUAL-CURSED ORACLE dip was enough to convince the GM to stop handing out "bottle-caps" (which let us roll twice on a check) after our party didn't fail a save for like 4 levels.

I don't have a number for you, but reducing the chance of a Nat-1 to a 1/400 chance is very strong.


the 'best' buff in the game is wish. Yeah, it's a 9th level spell but can pretty much do what's needed in any situation.

on a practical note it's really addressing the 'problem', be it a bonus to hit, bonus to damage, extra (temp) HPs, higher ability score (which leads to other benefits), bonuses that stack with current buffs... etc.

The Diviner's touch diviner's fortune grants an insight bonus of Wiz/2 to most all d20 rolls{awesome} for 1 whole round which pretty much stacks with everything. Bad part is it uses up the wizards standard action(!) and only lasts 1 round. Combine that with a Four-leaf Clover $3750 and you are rocking your bonuses with +2 luck 3/day.

Heal, Heroism, etc are all classic in their categories.


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Azothath wrote:


The Diviner's touch diviner's fortune grants an insight bonus of Wiz/2 to most all d20 rolls{awesome} for 1 whole round which pretty much stacks with everything. Bad part is it uses up the wizards standard action(!) and only lasts 1 round. Combine that with a Four-leaf Clover $3750 and you are rocking your bonuses with +2 luck 3/day.

For a standard action, I can make Aid Another far outpace level/2 up until like 15, or so. With a little bit more investment, I can reduce it to a swift action, too. A Helpful Halfling is equal to level/2 up to 8... literally anything else on top of that... like Order of the Dragon's Aid Allies, Arcane Strike/Gloves of Arcane Striking, Tribe/Succor/Kindness Mysteries/Spirits/Foci or whatever, Rings of Tactical Precision, a host of traits... and you can keep pace with level/2 to the bitter end.

Granted, the Aid Another bonus is relatively specific in what it can apply to. Being able to use Aid Another out of turn with Bodyguard, though...


I would give the slight edge to 'Visons of Madness' for this type of buff...

Vision of Madness (Sp): You can give a creature a vision of madness as a melee touch attack. Choose one of the following: attack rolls, saving throws, or skill checks. The target receives a bonus to the chosen rolls equal to ½ your cleric level (minimum +1) and a penalty to the other two types of rolls equal to ½ your cleric level (minimum –1). This effect fades after 3 rounds. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

For a penalty on skill checks, you can dish out a combat buff that will at least last 3 rounds.


VoodistMonk wrote:
Azothath wrote:


The Diviner's touch diviner's fortune grants an insight bonus of Wiz/2 to most all d20 rolls{awesome} for 1 whole round which pretty much stacks with everything. Bad part is it uses up the wizards standard action(!) and only lasts 1 round. Combine that with a Four-leaf Clover $3750 and you are rocking your bonuses with +2 luck 3/day.

For a standard action, I can make Aid Another far outpace level/2 up until like 15, or so. With a little bit more investment, I can reduce it to a swift action, too. A Helpful Halfling is equal to level/2 up to 8... literally anything else on top of that... like Order of the Dragon's Aid Allies, Arcane Strike/Gloves of Arcane Striking, Tribe/Succor/Kindness Mysteries/Spirits/Foci or whatever, Rings of Tactical Precision, a host of traits... and you can keep pace with level/2 to the bitter end.

Granted, the Aid Another bonus is relatively specific in what it can apply to. Being able to use Aid Another out of turn with Bodyguard, though...

Aid Another is only for a specific roll/check/AC chosen before the effect happens(a bit of prediction) and not the entire round AND you must be adjacent to the ally AND the opponent. That's significantly less with more strings attached. Then you have to take feats/buy items to up that... I'm gonna say not as good as Diviner's Fortune (specific class ability). I agree that since anybody can do it that makes it quite nice and Halflings can spam it.

Visions of Madness has a good duration that you pay for with penalties, and on saves... clearly not a good choice unless you want your fighter to succumb to Confusion, Glitterdust, or most spells...

My practical issue with these is duration. The spell effects have a much better duration making them useful so the caster can go on and do other things (like affect opponents) than being stymied making sure a party member survives that round. I think the teamwork feats that are shared also have good in combat utility (Shake it Off, etc).


Good point on Visions of Madness....it really is much more useful as a combat de-buff. A penalty to saves is a def no good!


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Arkham Joker wrote:
Good point on Visions of Madness....it really is much more useful as a combat de-buff. A penalty to saves is a def no good!

For crazy goodness buff the foe's skill checks! Then say, "a gift from Nephren-Ka".


Well I think we have a winner in the best buffer + debuffer combo category!

Behold.... the Cleric of Arshea (Freedom and Love)

Liberty’s Blessing (Sp): You touch a willing creature as a standard action, granting it a boon. A creature with this boon can, as a swift action, make a saving throw against a single spell or effect it is suffering from that grants a save. The DC of the saving throw is equal to the original DC of the spell or effect. If the saving throw is successful, the effect ends. This boon lasts for 1 minute or until successfully used to remove a spell or effect, whichever duration is shorter. You can use this ability for a number of times equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

Freedom's Call (Su): At 8th level, you can emit a 30-foot aura of freedom for a number of rounds per day equal to your cleric level. Allies within this aura are not affected by the confused, grappled, frightened, panicked, paralyzed, pinned, or shaken conditions. This aura only suppresses these effects, and they return once a creature leaves the aura or when the aura ends, if applicable. These rounds do not need to be consecutive.

Adoration (Su): As an immediate action, you can attempt to thwart a melee or ranged attack that targets you. This ability functions as sanctuary, but only against one individual attack. You must use the ability after the attack is declared but before the roll is made. The creature attacking you receives a Will save to negate this effect. If a creature has more than one attack, this ability only affects one of the attacks. You can use the ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier. This is a mind-affecting effect.

Charming Smile (Sp): At 8th level, you can cast charm person as a swift action, with a DC of 10 + 1/2 your cleric level + your Wisdom modifier. You can only have one creature charmed in this way at a time. The total number of rounds of this effect per day is equal to your cleric level. The rounds do not need to be consecutive, and you can dismiss the charm at any time as a free action. Each attempt to use this ability consumes 1 round of its duration, whether or not the creature succeeds on its save to resist the effect.

Considering you haven't actually even cast a spell or attacked anyone yet, that's pretty hard to beat....


9 lives is a high level spell but one I'm very fond of . It basically gives everyone an instant action defensive option for quite a long tim. Basically do it before bed and havit most of the next day.


What was that Witch Hex loop? Or am I misremembering something? I think it involved Soothsayer, but I cannot remember the exact formula... or even its effects. I just remember, or think I remember, a pretty cheesy trick with Witch Hexes that my mind catagorized as a buff, or is remembering as a buff, now. Can anyone help me out?


I dunno, Protective luck plus soothsayer is the only thing that comes to mind.

Basically for the first round of every combat all attacks against your protected allies have to roll twice and take the worst result (2 rounds at 8th, 3 at 16th).

There might be a higher level Hex that works with Soothsayer, but I haven't looked as closely at the Major/Grand Hexes.

Grand Archive

The best buff I know of has a one time cost of about $850 for your wizard (I assume you already got a war trained heavy war horse). Leather armor or similar illusion thereof, (4) obsidian daggers in a bandolier, mwk tonfa(worn on belt - it's blocking so you don't actually have to hit with it), mwk mithral cestus(worn, can be +1 spell storing $$), fighters spare weapon. Everyone assumes you're a rogue or TWF. Not being targeted - Priceless. 8^)

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