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Note, Canadian here. Which very much makes my decision much more "Do I want to go to the US" more than "Do I want to go to Gencon"
Very unlikely, but I'll see what the situation is at the point (which pretty much means no if I have to book 6 months in advance). But
1) We still don't know how infectious people who have taken the vaccine are
2) We still don't know how many people will actually TAKE the vaccine.
The latter is quite important. If the US remains the disease hot spot that it currently is (through some combination of vaccinated people being infectious, spread of resistant strains, and idiots refusing to take the vaccine) then no, I'm not heading down.
Another issue is going to be insurance. If medical insurance doesn't pay for Covid related issues (which I believe at least some insurance currently doesn't) then no. There is no way in heck that I'm ever going to the US without health insurance that covers absolutely EVERYTHING (including complications of my preexisting health conditions)
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Hard to say. Too much still undecided. In order to limit attendance they may have to make badges a lottery item and then open hotel space based on people who officially won a badge. Though that may not impact publishers from controlling their volunteer crew which could make volunteering for org play a highly sought after prospect.
And there is no way of knowing what the international travel situation might be which would significantly impact participation outside the US.
They might actually benefit from being in Indiana since it is a very conservative state. Meaning (right or wrong) they tend to be resistant to regulations that restrict business and trend towards market freedom over public health in a broad sense. Though with the more socially conscious part of the gaming community that in and of itself might be cause not to attend. there has long been a subtle rift between the gaming hierarchy ever since it moved to Seattle vs Gen Con since it moved to Indianapolis.
There is a lot of hubub whether or not a person can be forced to demonstrate vaccination given HIPPA laws. Similar to how a person with a respiratory condition is not required to prove they have one in order to claim it as a reason to receive reasonable accommodation for entry to a public space.
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idiots refusing to take the vaccine
To be fair, there is a myriad of reasons someone might not get the vaccine that are not politically-based
As far as insurance, fortunately most health departments and drugs stores (Walgreens, CVS, etc) offer free vaccines including Covid and Influenza so if you want one, insurance is rarely a stumbling block
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I think it’s a little short-sighted for the big cons to be so close together, but I understand they are just trying to make it work. Knowing that attendance is likely to be greatly reduced anyway probably doesn’t matter much that Gen Con, Origins, and DragonCon are all two weeks apart. They’ve never shown any concern over the schedules of local/regional conventions in the past so I doubt they do now.
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I wish they had stayed on their original weekend and just decided to be online only again. I'm hearing about a lot of local cons across the US that are getting clobbered.
I can't parse this statement.
Local Cons scheduled for September are getting clobbered in attendance because everyone is going to GenCon
-or-
Local Cons scheduled recently have been getting clobbered by COVID outbreaks?
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As far as insurance, fortunately most health departments and drugs stores (Walgreens, CVS, etc) offer free vaccines including Covid and Influenza so if you want one, insurance is rarely a stumbling block
I believe pauljathome is expressing concern that if they were to catch COVID (despite being vaccinated) in the States, that their insurance may not cover treatment, since they're a ferner.
Cause I am !!!!
I won't be, but it's not really related to COVID. I'd like to attend some year.
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idiots refusing to take the vaccineTo be fair, there is a myriad of reasons someone might not get the vaccine that are not politically-based
While you're quite right my very strong impression is the great majority of people who refuse to take vaccines do so out of what I'll politely term political reasons.
All over the world (including up here), not just in the USA. Although the issue seems greater in the US than in most places
As far as insurance, fortunately most health departments and drugs stores (Walgreens, CVS, etc) offer free vaccines including Covid and Influenza so if you want one, insurance is rarely a stumbling block
Sorry, I wasn't clear. Like the vast majority of Canadians, one thing that I will ALWAYS do before a trip to the US (and frequently any trip abroad) is to buy health insurance to cover any costs accrued in the US if something goes wrong. I REALLY don't want a bill for thousands of dollars if I slip and fall.
And my vague understanding (possibly incorrect, I really haven't looked into it) is that at least some of the people selling that travel medical insurance do NOT cover catching my Covid abroad.
I've already had my first vaccine shot and will get my second long before Gencon so getting a vaccine in the US is totally NOT an issue.
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It's very unlikely I will be attending GenCon. The problem is, I already have a scheduled vacation at the end of September. Origins moved to that weekend, so Origins was out for me. And with GenCon moving so close to that same time frame, it's unlikely work will let me take the time off.
According to the GenCon forums, anyone who bought a badge and rolled it over from last year will definitely be allowed to attend or you have the option of rolling it over again to 2022 (which I'm going to do), after that, they will be selling the remainder until they meet the capacity limit. They've also said depending on how things play out, they may be able to release more batches of badges as it gets closer if restrictions are lightened.
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Venture-Captain, Missouri—Columbia
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If Org Play is there and doing the GM program, I'll almost certainly attend although I want to see what kind of restrictions there might be on us. I really do not want to run games wearing a frigging mask 2x a day. There are just a lot of details that have to be worked out by OP and GC and of course some of this is all going to change as hopefully the majority of people get vaccinated.
I am perfectly fine with GC requiring a vaccination to attend the con.
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Yeah, this has made me torn, as SkålCon is the weekend after.
Much like Hilary, *IF* OrgPlay has an online component I'll be doing that online.
I'm not sold or sure about a physical attendance for SkalCon atm, but that would be my higher priority if I attended in-person -- fewer bodies, more space, less stress.
Even so, I'd probably have to request any tables I played/GM'd at to be capped at 4 and at least three feet away from other tables with masks mandatory at my table. (Family and personal health concerns).
EDIT: This is, of course, predicated on a vaccine I can get without serious health issues.
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So much anxiety around upcoming events later this year.
Will it be safe to go for me? (I'm getting my second shot at the end of the month)
Will it be safe for my unvaccinated kid for me to get that much exposure? How about my elderly mother who lives with it?
Will it be reasonable to go?
What are flights going to look like?
What about my local con that's also in September?
What's going on with Paizo's release schedule and PFS seasons as they relate to GenCon.
Also my favorite things to do at GenCon are things that aren't available at home like True Dungeon and Mega-Games. They seem particularly high-risk. How does that effect my calculus?
What will hotel availability and pricing look like this year?
Both the last 2 years I originally bought nonstop SW flights. Both years they were canceled and turned into 1 stop flights. A nonstop flight at least feels safer as there's less different vectors but history has shown that buying a non-stop flight does not guarantee one.
One of the things that's important to my GenCon experience is sharing meals with friends between events. What will that look like at the time?
I feel like my life is full of anxiety at the moment and future con attendance is one of those things that no matter how much I think about I can't answer because predicting what things will look like 6 months from now seems impossible.
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request any tables I played/GM'd at to be capped at 4 and at least three feet away from other tables with masks mandatory at my table
No offense intended to the poster, but I am glad I am not part of any convention organizing committees this year. I expect that everyone is going to have different personal requirements to be comfortable with live gaming and will be requesting (and in some cases demanding) accommodation beyond what will be offered as a standard. Its been so long, many people are anxious to get out of their house which will influence them being very passionate that their requests are fulfilled so they can attend. Organizers are going to be stuck between making reasonable accommodations while still making things "fair" for everyone and making efficient use of their space. I'd like to believe that everyone will be reasonable and willing to compromise, but my experience tells me some won't. I wish organizers the best of luck!
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@TwilightKnight... take your retirement from this is peace!
While i am looking forward to SkålCon this year, with the possibility of being in person, I am not quite as thrilled about managing a Con with additional restrictions. I know, my preference will be masks, smaller tables, more space, and if we can manage it, at least temperatures being taken daily. (I know the latter doesn't tell a lot, but...)
I'd prefer proof of vaccination, though I don't know if that's going to be possible, yet.
And with GameHole Con coming up in late October, it becomes even more fun, as we don't control everything, and I haven't started much discussion about how many tables they plan to cram in.
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@TwilightKnight... take your retirement from this is peace!
While i am looking forward to SkålCon this year, with the possibility of being in person, I am not quite as thrilled about managing a Con with additional restrictions. I know, my preference will be masks, smaller tables, more space, and if we can manage it, at least temperatures being taken daily. (I know the latter doesn't tell a lot, but...)
I'd prefer proof of vaccination, though I don't know if that's going to be possible, yet.
And with GameHole Con coming up in late October, it becomes even more fun, as we don't control everything, and I haven't started much discussion about how many tables they plan to cram in.
That isn't a no...
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No offense intended to the poster, but I am glad I am not part of any convention organizing committees this year. I expect that everyone is going to have different personal requirements to be comfortable with live gaming and will be requesting (and in some cases demanding) accommodation beyond what will be offered as a standard. Its been so long, many people are anxious to get out of their house which will influence them being very passionate that their requests are fulfilled so they can attend. Organizers are going to be stuck between making reasonable accommodations while still making things "fair" for everyone and making efficient use of their space. I'd like to believe that everyone will be reasonable and willing to compromise, but my experience tells me some won't. I wish organizers the best of luck!
I want to point out that I definitely do not take offense to this.
I've *worn* the organizer hat for other organizations at a convention and briefly did the mental exercise of trying to do the reasonable (for me) restrictions against those organizations and started coming up with either space overflow errors or lack of viable attendance numbers.
And that was at smaller 'local' conventions.
I can't imagine the logistics nightmare of trying to coordinate something huge like Gen Con or Origins.
And that's before we start thinking about other parts of a convention 'footprint', like lodging, food services, administrative staffing, etc, et al.
If there's a bright lining to all of this, maybe an increased awareness of personal health and whatnot might lead to a reduction of the legendary 'concrud' issue and a rationalization of 'what is required to GM in-person'.
I imagine it is going to be a work-in-progress, though.
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If there are mandates to wear a mask I would seriously consider not attending any convention.
Gary, that is totally your choice.
On the other hand, I will not be attending any convention that does not have mandatory wearing of masks, attention paid to decreasing density of people in the convention rooms, etc.
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If there are mandates to wear a mask I would seriously consider not attending any convention.
A mask mandate allows me the freedom to make my own risk-assessment and choices of which risky behaviors to engage in.
There is no way to tell if another person is vaccinated. Thus, I have no way of assessing the risk of being in a room with them.
If everyone is required to wear a mask, it gives me two freedoms:
a) I'm somewhat protected from unvaccinated people
b) I can more easily make a risk-assessment before I enter a space.
It also reassures me that the organizers are taking the community risk seriously, and are doing their best to protect people who, for whatever reason, cannot receive the vaccine.
People don't wear a mask send two messages to me:
a) "I may or may not be vaccinated, but you don't get to decide for yourself what levels of risk you're being exposed to. It's my secret."
b) "I don't care about people who cannot be vaccinated. Too bad for them if I'm still shedding viruses."
A maskless convention means I have no information at all about levels of risk and no way to make granular judgments about whether or not to enter a room.
Organized Play Associate
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I'm just going to step in here and remind people that this is still a topic that can easily set off a lot of people, and if this thread devolves into fighting about masks and the mandating thereof (or related topics), I will not hesitate to ask for it to be locked. We all have our own personal level of comfort with various behaviors, and that will continue to be true going forward. Let's respect everyone else as we discuss Gen Con and physical conventions.
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[sarcasm]Oh no! Is there going to be a pants mandate? I hate when I can't put my butt on chairs. I'm out.[/sarcasm]
LoL, I know it’s sarcasm, but most public places and private businesses have at least some rules regarding things like “no shirt, no shoes, no service” so requiring a mask is neither unique nor an unreasonable burden on the public. While I am dubious as to its real level of protection, if there is any chance it reduces my risk of contracting a deadly disease, I’m willing to do it. While I am agains government mandates that have not followed the due process of legislature, I also support the rights of private business to do what they think is best for themselves. That means if Gen Con requires masks, I’ll wear one, but I probably would anyway, just in case. I really hope people take this type of reasonable approach and ease up a bit on their personal political bias.
Explore! Report! Cooperate!
Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Indianapolis
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If there are mandates to wear a mask I would seriously consider not attending any convention.
And while this isn’t directed personally at you, Gary, your comment made me think of it: if a con did not have a mask mandate and I attended anyway, I wouldn’t play at a table or GM for players where everyone at the table wasn’t wearing a mask.
And this is precisely why con organizers are going to have difficulty planning F2F cons - they have to account for the variety of desires of attendees, and still have to do their best to providing the safest convention environment they can (inasmuch as they have control over certain aspects.)
I just can’t imagine what that would be like.
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I've been hearing about a lot of talk regarding the requirement to show proof of vaccination. The argument essentially goes that if you can ask <me> to prove I've been vaccinated, then <I> can require you to prove you have a respiratory illness before providing "reasonable accommodations" for you to ignore the mask mandate in the grocery store.
Not sure where that line really lies. A school can require you to get a physical before participating in athletics and/or they can require kids to have standard immunizations for Rubella, TB, small pox, etc. before they can attend public schools. Jobs can require you to take drug tests which they receive the results of. So, there are clearly some deviations in the HIPPA laws. Hell, businesses already require things like "no shirt, no shoes, no service." That a public-access, private business cannot require proof of a respiratory illness before deviating from their mask mandates seems a bit odd.
Personally, I couldn't care less since I wear a mask to protect me from everyone else, and if/when I get the Covid vaccine, it'll be for my benefit not anyone else. Meaning, Gary if you want to play with me without a mask, you are welcome to, though I may require you sit on the opposite side of the table :-)
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Venture-Captain, Missouri—Columbia
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I am not sure whether we will need the masks or not by GC. Still too early to tell about it. I do know I originally thought they would be needed, but I am not so sure now. I do know I really do not want to wear one and talk a lot. I also have a lot of problems hearing people wearing one. I would have to explore alternatives.
Personally, I would prefer it where the convention required a vaccination for attendance.
Yes, this one is going to be a nightmare to organize. They're going to need a live and an online organization system. That is even if OP decides to host live gaming at GC. I would not be surprised at all if they did not.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Indianapolis
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Governor Holcomb (Indiana) announced today that the statewide mask mandate would end in early April.
Now, the ICC can require what it wants, as can Gen Con. And local units of government, like Indianapolis, can have their own requirements as well.
I suspect by the time September gets here, there will be no mask mandate from the local units of government; ICC and Gen Con are another matter.