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So "Path of Iron" is the most anime feat right? If you combine it with quick draw you basically get to do the iaijutsu anime thing. Just need a feat that lets you sheath your sword as a free action.
Man, I might have to make a fighter or ranger or something with a Katana just so I can work towards that feat.
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I was inspired to write Ki Form while watching Yu Yu Hakusho and then Mark leaned into adding some Dragon Ball Z inspired flavor to it, so I think that Ki Form actually wins the "most anime feat" contest.
But Path of Iron is pretty sweet.
Ohh, didn't see that one. It's a close call. Going super saiajin or doing the Iaijutsu thing. Depends if you are doing One Piece/Bleach or Yu Yu Hakusho/Dragonball Z. Now we just need a feat that lets you topdeck to win any card game, combine it with some mental attack, and we'll have a Yugioh move.
Oversized Throw and Friendly Toss have ways struck me as very anime'ish.
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Ki Blast is easily the most anime feat in the CRB, and probably a good contender for the whole system. After all, the Kamehameha does predate going Super Saiyan.
Path of Iron explicitly doesn't work with Quick Draw, since both are defined actions.
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Ki Blast is easily the most anime feat in the CRB, and probably a good contender for the whole system. After all, the Kamehameha does predate going Super Saiyan.
Path of Iron explicitly doesn't work with Quick Draw, since both are defined actions.
Yeah, I was thinking Ki Blast as soon as I read this.
I also like Felling Strike w/ Sudden Leap. Jumping several stories high to smash one's enemy into the ground: Very anime.Really depends on which anime one references.
Iaijutsu suits the samurai style anime, but so many options exist.
Heck Conan could be a Halfling Investigator simply many levels above his adversaries. Summoners for Pokemon, etc.
And I think most classes have high level abilities that'd be pretty anime if given the right special effects & background music.
At the lower levels Ki abilities match best (of course) as does other reusable magic that seems to come from one's body or spirit rather than an external force.
Just need a mechanic that gives you more options as the fight extends, gives you Focus points or spell slots as long as you survive.
Or like in Bleach, PCs need to be able to gain levels & unlock abilities WHILE IN COMBAT, sometimes in response to hitting Wounded 3. (Even if they later lose those levels...for reasons).
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Ohh, didn't see that one. It's a close call. Going super saiajin or doing the Iaijutsu thing. Depends if you are doing One Piece/Bleach or Yu Yu Hakusho/Dragonball Z. Now we just need a feat that lets you topdeck to win any card game, combine it with some mental attack, and we'll have a Yugioh move.I was inspired to write Ki Form while watching Yu Yu Hakusho and then Mark leaned into adding some Dragon Ball Z inspired flavor to it, so I think that Ki Form actually wins the "most anime feat" contest.
But Path of Iron is pretty sweet.
There is that Uncommon style feat that lets you use cards as magical darts, so it's halfway to being viable.
Now we need to have a feat where a card becomes a hazard or snare, with maybe snare crafting as a requirement, triggering when an enemy either picks it up, or is in the same square as a reaction. It'll make for an awesome moment in the game reminiscent of the Yu-Gi-Oh series.
"You triggered my Trap Card!"
**Edit** I find the Iaijutsu thing more iconic in the likes of the Devil May Cry series when Vergil or Dante utilize the Yamato sword.
Just need a mechanic that gives you more options as the fight extends, gives you Focus points or spell slots as long as you survive.
Or like in Bleach, PCs need to be able to gain levels & unlock abilities WHILE IN COMBAT, sometimes in response to hitting Wounded 3. (Even if they later lose those levels...for reasons).
I actually do know a game system that has that mechanic.
One day I'll be able to play it...
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My best bet here would probably be cringe and empathetic plea if only because they're just soo awesome and fun.
Of course, this isn't exactly something of a super AAA main-line anime super weaboo fight-an man anime trope thing but it neatly fits my own personal taste.
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There is that Uncommon style feat that lets you use cards as magical darts, so it's halfway to being viable.
Now we need to have a feat where a card becomes a hazard or snare, with maybe snare crafting as a requirement, triggering when an enemy either picks it up, or is in the same square as a reaction. It'll make for an awesome moment in the game reminiscent of the Yu-Gi-Oh series.
"You triggered my Trap Card!"
**Edit** I find the Iaijutsu thing more iconic in the likes of the Devil May Cry series when Vergil or Dante utilize the Yamato sword.
Oh wow, I hadn't seen: Fane's Fourberie
Man, that's a great feat! I think the best way to go about it is to go rogue and pick up quick draw so drawing and then throwing cards is one action. Unless you can hold a deck in one hand and draw the cards as free actions. Hmmm, it's not too clear. Either the feat takes two hands (deck in one hand, throwing with the other) or you need to take an action to draw each card from the deck for throwing. We should get a ruling on that.
There is that Uncommon style feat that lets you use cards as magical darts, so it's halfway to being viable.
Now we need to have a feat where a card becomes a hazard or snare, with maybe snare crafting as a requirement, triggering when an enemy either picks it up, or is in the same square as a reaction. It'll make for an awesome moment in the game reminiscent of the Yu-Gi-Oh series.
"You triggered my Trap Card!"
**Edit** I find the Iaijutsu thing more iconic in the likes of the Devil May Cry series when Vergil or Dante utilize the Yamato sword.
Oh wow, I hadn't seen: Fane's Fourberie
Man, that's a great feat! I think the best way to go about it is to go rogue and pick up quick draw so drawing and then throwing cards is one action. Unless you can hold a deck in one hand and draw the cards as free actions. Hmmm, it's not too clear. Either the feat takes two hands (deck in one hand, throwing with the other) or you need to take an action to draw each card from the deck for throwing. We should get a ruling on that.
It's not bad. I don't like that it's a level 2 feat, much less an uncommon one (though it's not an issue for PFS players to acquire, so I imagine it won't be as difficult in a home game, either), meaning it won't pick up at 1st level. It doesn't matter too terribly much, but ruins the image of a "functional from the ground up" character as many would probably like it to be.
As for how it's ran, it's hard to say. In Yu-Gi-Oh, there were those bracers that held cards for you until you had/chose to draw them, meaning they could technically be worn in that manner, if a container was designed for it. I imagine it's not too terribly difficult to find such a container, and with the simplification of held/worn/stowed items, a GM can handwave this much easier compared to before.
Otherwise, I would probably rule similar to the tools. That is, it's only one hand if it's worn, drawn, and thrown as needed, or two if it's not worn, and as such you could only realistically throw one card at a time, as your other hand is occupied with the deck.
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The best thing about it is that the entire deck is enchantable as a single weapon, AND you can pick the cards back up after a fight. It's a throwing build that doesn't require returning, just so long as you don't intend to make 53 strikes in a combat.
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There is that Uncommon style feat that lets you use cards as magical darts, so it's halfway to being viable.
Now we need to have a feat where a card becomes a hazard or snare, with maybe snare crafting as a requirement, triggering when an enemy either picks it up, or is in the same square as a reaction. It'll make for an awesome moment in the game reminiscent of the Yu-Gi-Oh series.
"You triggered my Trap Card!"
**Edit** I find the Iaijutsu thing more iconic in the likes of the Devil May Cry series when Vergil or Dante utilize the Yamato sword.
Oh wow, I hadn't seen: Fane's Fourberie
Man, that's a great feat! I think the best way to go about it is to go rogue and pick up quick draw so drawing and then throwing cards is one action. Unless you can hold a deck in one hand and draw the cards as free actions. Hmmm, it's not too clear. Either the feat takes two hands (deck in one hand, throwing with the other) or you need to take an action to draw each card from the deck for throwing. We should get a ruling on that.
How I'd like the feat to work: Wield the deck as a one+ handed weapon for throwing purposes, with one hand always holding the deck and the other drawing as you throw.
How the feat is written: You wield a single card as a dart or dagger. Whether the rest of the deck is held in your other hand or stowed somehow, you'd still need to draw each card you want to throw.
As to the original question of the thread, I'm gonna go with the Reveal Machinations villain monologue, here.
I think Shrink item spell with a little imagination could be one of the most anime things. Shrink "everything" shrunken items place in small breakable containers (like glass vials but sky's the limit with some imagination) The spell has an unlimited duration as long as the object is inside something. Smash rip toss to the ground ect to instantly have any thing you need at a moment's notice....Profit :-)
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Ki form is 100% the most aggressively in your face anime feat, followed by ki blast, at least if we are talking about shounens, but some other stuff I may or may not have applied anime flavor to:
The summoner's eidolon being a Persona
Blistering invective as a "punish you in the name of the moon" speech
A successful devise a stratagem being followed with pushing up glasses and an "all according to keikaku"
Quick and Advanced alchemy as the quirky scientist character's power to make gizmos on the fly
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My best bet here would probably be cringe.
The attacker is then immune to your Cringe for 24 hours.
This feat needs to be amended. There is no possible way anyone could ever be immune to my Cringe.
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You all disappoint me. It is Quivering Palm, because お前はもう死んでいる.
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You all disappoint me. It is Quivering Palm, because お前はもう死んでいる.
I'm impressed by your dedication to actually include the correct kanji and hiragana.
(For those who can't read Japanese, it reads 'omoe wa mou shindeiru', or You are already dead.)
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So what we’ve learned here is that we can 100% make an anime campaign
I have an entire folder that's just the One Piece crew statted up as PCs for PF2, along with a smattering of NPCs like Jesus Burgess and Blackbeard. After grabbing a couple 3pp releases and some draft notes for character option ideas, I had to do surprisingly little completely new writing to make it work. Robin, Brook, and Frankie probably took the most homebrewing.
In the 101 Monk Builds thread, I also have builds for every dragon slayer from Fairy Tail, quite a few of the heroes from Final Fantasy 7, a generic JRPG protagonist build, a "Castlevania" dhampir build, and probably at least half a dozen other anime-inspired character builds. The shared roots of D&D and modern fantasy anime shows mean that Pathfinder has always been pretty fertile ground for anime fantasy adventures, and PF2's increased versatility in character building and concept achievement really opens that up even farther in some cool ways.
I think the main barrier is that a lot of anime just start with a general power level that's closer to like, level 6 or 7 in Pathfinder, where you're in the early stages of having surpassed real-world human performance, so for some anime settings you either need to start at a higher level or get good with the idea that your first 5 levels are basically your character's origin story.
quite a few of the heroes from Final Fantasy 7
Go on...
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Cloud Strife (I actually really like this one and want to play it at some point.)
I used Talisman Dabbler for all of these to represent materia, but if I were GMing a FF7 campaign, I'd probably give it to everyone as a free archetype and add in some renewable talismans that more closely match the FF7 materia spells.
Amusingly, I also noticed that I'd built Kagome from Inuyasha in that thread, so there's another anime protagonist character :P
"Smash from the Air" is one of my personal favorite anime moves. Partly because the character I used with it had a war-fan as her main weapon.
I used Talisman Dabbler for all of these to represent materia, but if I were GMing a FF7 campaign, I'd probably give it to everyone as a free archetype and add in some renewable talismans that more closely match the FF7 materia spells.
I actually wished there were more talismans for ranged weapons since I had an idea in my head that was similar for my alchemist, where she sprinkles in a bit of magic into her gadgets for some extra weirdness. Like, I really want there to be that crafting synergy, but the options just aren't there yet
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Not quite anime, but I made a monk based on Terry Board that used elemental ki strikes for flaming punches. He was a fun character that I always described as sleeveless
You all disappoint me. It is Quivering Palm, because お前はもう死んでいる.
I would say Quivering Palm is not anime, because the "Five Point Palm Exploding Heart Technique" was from Executioners of Shaolin (1977) and Clan of the White Lotus (1980) first. Any similar techniques in Anime are probably homages to "great Hong Kong martial arts films" first and foremost.
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That's easy. Specialty Crafting (Artistry), Impeccable Crafter (Artistry).
Those feats will let you make the most anime and manga.
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You all disappoint me. It is Quivering Palm, because お前はもう死んでいる.I would say Quivering Palm is not anime, because the "Five Point Palm Exploding Heart Technique" was from Executioners of Shaolin (1977) and Clan of the White Lotus (1980) first. Any similar techniques in Anime are probably homages to "great Hong Kong martial arts films" first and foremost.
Let us not play that game. Anime is simply an art style for telling animated stories. As with many stories, nearly all of them came from, or were inspired by, something that came before them.
It would not be hard to point towards nearly everything in anime and make the dubious claim "that's not true anime" because it came from somewhere else first.
You all disappoint me. It is Quivering Palm, because お前はもう死んでいる.I would say Quivering Palm is not anime, because the "Five Point Palm Exploding Heart Technique" was from Executioners of Shaolin (1977) and Clan of the White Lotus (1980) first. Any similar techniques in Anime are probably homages to "great Hong Kong martial arts films" first and foremost.Let us not play that game. Anime is simply an art style for telling animated stories. As with many stories, nearly all of them came from, or were inspired by, something that came before them.
It would not be hard to point towards nearly everything in anime and make the dubious claim "that's not true anime" because it came from somewhere else first.
Journey to the West being one of the biggest contributors to not just anime but a lot of genres.
But I think his point is that specifically Quivering Palm's concept is derived from something not anime (and has a lot of roots in things outside anime) so maybe that disqualifies it.
In PF1, I would have said Abundant Step since it allowed you to Dimension Door up to half your falling speed and at level 20 your falling speed was any distance.
You basically got Goku's Instant Transmission ability.
Kind of on RD side for this.
Consider for instance the Lesson of Mischief with the Deceiver's Cloak focus spell. Clearly drawing on stories of witches that change their shape and appearance like Ursula or the Queen in Snow White. But this would also make for a great Magical Child spell and the basis of a ton of Anime. Should it be disqualified because it isn't drawing strictly on anime tropes, even if some of the most popular anime would feature it?
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So what we’ve learned here is that we can 100% make an anime campaignI have an entire folder that's just the One Piece crew statted up as PCs for PF2, along with a smattering of NPCs like Jesus Burgess and Blackbeard. After grabbing a couple 3pp releases and some draft notes for character option ideas, I had to do surprisingly little completely new writing to make it work. Robin, Brook, and Frankie probably took the most homebrewing.
...
Mr. Sayre, how can we convince you to share this glorious folder of yours?!
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I was inspired to write Ki Form while watching Yu Yu Hakusho and then Mark leaned into adding some Dragon Ball Z inspired flavor to it, so I think that Ki Form actually wins the "most anime feat" contest.
But Path of Iron is pretty sweet.
YuYu Hakusho was my first manga ever.
If I ever do a monk, my Ki Blast will be fluffed like "Spirit Gun", and I might do a Duskwalker... :P
I was inspired to write Ki Form while watching Yu Yu Hakusho and then Mark leaned into adding some Dragon Ball Z inspired flavor to it, so I think that Ki Form actually wins the "most anime feat" contest.
But Path of Iron is pretty sweet.
YuYu Hakusho was my first manga ever.
If I ever do a monk, my Ki Blast will be fluffed like "Spirit Gun", and I might do a Duskwalker... :P
I have always wanted to try to make a version of Kurama work as a Druid.
This edition is probably the closest you can get since Primal has a lot of powerful spells, but not sure we'll get all the way to planting seeds in your opponents chest and then turning them into a rose bush.
Giant demon plants would be cool too.
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I have always wanted to try to make a version of Kurama work as a Druid.
I am like, 90% sure that Verdant Weapon was specifically inspired by Kurama. I think you could also cover a lot of other Kurama abilities by combining Sow Spell with the right primal spells. I'd probably do a light reflavoring of Impaling Spike to simulate the Dark Tournament ability you're referring to. We'll also have kitsune in the Lost Omens Ancestry Guide, so I'll be kind of shocked if you can't make a solid version of Kurama that emulates a significant majority of his abilities by this time next year, or sooner. You could use Ki Body to cover his transformation into Yoko Kurama, combine the previously mentioned options with the right spells, maybe a little light reflavoring... Seems doable!
Mr. Sayre, how can we convince you to share this glorious folder of yours?!
I either need to cut some things out of it or wait until some other things happen, but I'll try and move that someplace where people can check it out when I have a little more free time!
YuYu Hakusho was my first manga ever.
If I ever do a monk, my Ki Blast will be fluffed like "Spirit Gun", and I might do a Duskwalker... :P
I'm suddenly really surprised that I didn't do a Yusuke Yurameshi build in the 101 Monk Builds thread. Seems like the right time to figure out whether it's possible to combine investigator and monk in an interesting way. Gonna add that to my "things to do when I have the time" list if no one else beats me to it.
To me Anime is just anything that is absurdly over the top and badass, any as such any sufficiently crazy ability can have an anime feel to it, especially if you scream as you do it.
The Barbarian's Quaking Stomp is what immediately came to mind for me. I can 100% see Vegeta, All Might, Kenpachi (without a stomp even), Luffy, or any of a dozen other anime characters that are mostly about raw strength doing that just to show off.
Channel Smite could also look very Anime if you re-flavored it a bit. And I also agree with Quivering Palm. Yes Anime might have taken inspiration from others for it, but Fist of the North Star is where most people nowadays know it from.
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[snip]
I'm suddenly really surprised that I didn't do a Yusuke Yurameshi build in the 101 Monk Builds thread. Seems like the right time to figure out whether it's possible to combine investigator and monk in an interesting way. Gonna add that to my "things to do when I have the time" list if no one else beats me to it.
YuYu Hakusho was my first manga ever.
If I ever do a monk, my Ki Blast will be fluffed like "Spirit Gun", and I might do a Duskwalker... :P
Hahaha! Sounds real nice.
I also need to look if it would be possible to do Kazuma Kuwabara, he was my favorite character of the bunch, and really loved his chi weapon ability!... Now that I think about it, surprisingly, Champions fit kinda well with him... o_o With a Blade Ally.
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I am like, 90% sure that Verdant Weapon was specifically inspired by Kurama.
I have always wanted to try to make a version of Kurama work as a Druid.
I literally own the APG, thought I had read most of it, but apparently totally missed this Feat.
I think you could also cover a lot of other Kurama abilities by combining Sow Spell with the right primal spells. I'd probably do a light reflavoring of Impaling Spike to simulate the Dark Tournament ability you're referring to.
I love Sow Spell, but it's so high level and doesn't work with Summons, but I definitely feel like there's enough there to give it a shot.
If it works with Impaling Briars then holy moly, Kurama is basically doable..
Level 14 is when it comes online, which makes sense for the Dark Tournament honestly.
We'll also have kitsune in the Lost Omens Ancestry Guide, so I'll be kind of shocked if you can't make a solid version of Kurama that emulates a significant majority of his abilities by this time next year, or sooner. You could use Ki Body to cover his transformation into Yoko Kurama, combine the previously mentioned options with the right spells, maybe a little light reflavoring... Seems doable!
The question is do you go Human + Tiefling and flavor the Fox, or go Kitsune Tiefling and just be permanent Yoko (though I remember Kitsunes having an ability to surpress their nature, so Kitsune Tiefling sounds like the best option).
Although I suppose Kitsune might be a more accurate representation of the "demon fox" than say an actual demon.
Might have to give this a go though, it's pretty flavorful just for the Rose Whip being available at level 1.
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But I think his point is that specifically Quivering Palm's concept is derived from something not anime (and has a lot of roots in things outside anime) so maybe that disqualifies it.
In PF1, I would have said Abundant Step since it allowed you to Dimension Door up to half your falling speed and at level 20 your falling speed was any distance.
You basically got Goku's Instant Transmission ability.
There's basically the TV Tropes problem of something like "chewing gum appears in the following 857 anime" but obviously if something that's not anime has chewing gum in it, that's probably not an anime reference.
Like the "dim mak" or "touch of death" concept dates back to Chinese traditional medicine- if people can activate certain pressure points to heal you, couldn't they also activate other pressure points to harm you? Which spirals off from there via people's imagination.
I mean, "was Bruce Lee killed by the touch of death" was a real point of speculation in the 70s and 80s (Black Belt Magazine even cited an expert who spoke on a "quivering palm" technique), and the idea that select practitioners of secret kung fu were taught to kill people with pressure points was all over the Brucesploitation subgenre. Hell, there were books contemporaneous in English about "how to disrupt people's qi via hitting them just right" by Erle Montaigue *in English* contemporaneous with "Fist of the North Star" in the original Japanese in the 80s.
So sure, chewing gum might make you think of an anime in which people chewed gum, but the people who put it there to begin with were likely thinking of something else. It's generally beneficial to keep Wuxia and Anime/Manga separate, if for no other reason than "China and Japan are different countries with different cultures."
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What's the difference between taking inspiration from Wuxia and Wuxia inspired Anime?
There is a lot of Quivering Palm like effects in Anime like Fist of the North Star and Ranma 1/2.
I mean, saying that something isn't Anime, because it was done before, is like saying All Might build isn't Anime because he is basically Golden Age Superman.
Humbly,
Yawar
What's the difference between taking inspiration from Wuxia and Wuxia inspired Anime?
There is a lot of Quivering Palm like effects in Anime like Fist of the North Star and Ranma 1/2.
I mean, saying that something isn't Anime, because it was done before, is like saying All Might build isn't Anime because he is basically Golden Age Superman.
Humbly,
Yawar
Well, tbh, even All-might himself isn't really that anime (I know, I know, just hear me out).
He's a heavily Americanized character (even his moves are named from his times in America) that happens to be in a Japanese anime. The most anime thing about All-might is that he happens to be in an anime and he shouts the names of his moves before using them.
As an example, I wouldn't argue that Daredevil is an "American Comic Book concept", he's a heavily inspired character of eastern cultures and thus I couldn't call him an exemplification of American Comic books, he's more of an exemplification of eastern character concepts that were used in the American Comic Book medium.
Where original concepts come from does matter when deciding whether something evokes the concepts of that medium. Simply using things in the medium doesn't make them belong to that medium in that kind of way. Otherwise Volleyball would be anime just because of Haikyuu.
Quivering Palm has shown its face in a LOT of places (including Tarantino Films, albeit, which are inspired by eastern cultures) and as Cabbage points out, is more heavily rooted in other eastern cultures.
It's not that it's "not anime" I think they're just saying that it's about as anime as the episode of Samurai Champloo when they all play baseball (America's past-time).
So "most anime" to me reads as "most original with respect to anime" or "closest to emulating anime tropes".
Quivering Palm isn't an "anime trope" or "original with respect to anime", it's just an eastern culture move that's made appearances in anime.
There are plenty of solid anime tropes and original anime moves/ideas, there's no need to just call anything that's appeared in anime an "anime thing".
Anime adapts a lot of different stories to the medium because it can tell all kinds of stories, but it has a lot of original things too.
Take all of the above with a massive grain of salt, it's just my take. :)
I think this thread was just for fun for people to show off what Anime characters they could create, and there have been some really good ones (Michael Sayre has done about a 1000 different characters I need to read through, talismans for materia never dawned on me)
Since when does materia self-destruct upon use though?
Since when does materia self-destruct upon use though?
Fair point.
I wouldn't be opposed to some higher level feat from Talisman Dabbler allowing "per day" uses though.
Like I'm fairly certain the old Fire/Thunder/Etc. spells only did the Spell a number of times equal to the spell level (so if it was a level 1 materia, you get one cast), but maybe I'm misremembering (definitely not present in the remake).
If you went Free-archetype Talisman Dabbler and introduced a "You can use a talisman a number of times per day equal to your Charisma modifier" type mechanic, you could come pretty close to creating an FFVII style campaign IMO.
Since when does materia self-destruct upon use though?Fair point.
I wouldn't be opposed to some higher level feat from Talisman Dabbler allowing "per day" uses though.
Like I'm fairly certain the old Fire/Thunder/Etc. spells only did the Spell a number of times equal to the spell level (so if it was a level 1 materia, you get one cast), but maybe I'm misremembering (definitely not present in the remake).
If you went Free-archetype Talisman Dabbler and introduced a "You can use a talisman a number of times per day equal to your Charisma modifier" type mechanic, you could come pretty close to creating an FFVII style campaign IMO.
Do you feel there is an effective difference between this and the alchemist's schtick, which is creating the same consumable a number of times per day?
Definitely a flavor difference, and I'm still hoping the Occultist class does what you describe as an option at least when it wanders in, but I'm curious if you can simply reflavor the current Talisman dabbler's "you get 2 free talismans per day" as "you can use a talisman twice per day without expending it, or use an expired talsiman 2 additional times per day".
Though we'd need a version of "Quick {Talisman crafting}" to really pull it off, so there's that need.
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Since when does materia self-destruct upon use though?Fair point.
I wouldn't be opposed to some higher level feat from Talisman Dabbler allowing "per day" uses though.
Like I'm fairly certain the old Fire/Thunder/Etc. spells only did the Spell a number of times equal to the spell level (so if it was a level 1 materia, you get one cast), but maybe I'm misremembering (definitely not present in the remake).
If you went Free-archetype Talisman Dabbler and introduced a "You can use a talisman a number of times per day equal to your Charisma modifier" type mechanic, you could come pretty close to creating an FFVII style campaign IMO.
Do you feel there is an effective difference between this and the alchemist's schtick, which is creating the same consumable a number of times per day?
Definitely a flavor difference, and I'm still hoping the Occultist class does what you describe as an option at least when it wanders in, but I'm curious if you can simply reflavor the current Talisman dabbler's "you get 2 free talismans per day" as "you can use a talisman twice per day without expending it, or use an expired talsiman 2 additional times per day".
Though we'd need a version of "Quick {Talisman crafting}" to really pull it off, so there's that need.
Not going to lie, an Occultist that operates on Talismans the way Alchemists operate would be really cool.
As for if it's different from Alchemists, it was pretty much the mechanics I was looking to mirror to get "FFVII lite".
Honestly, this game is ripe for slight mods like these to emulate playstyles/universes/mechanics.
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Since when does materia self-destruct upon use though?Like I'm fairly certain the old Fire/Thunder/Etc. spells only did the Spell a number of times equal to the spell level (so if it was a level 1 materia, you get one cast), but maybe I'm misremembering (definitely not present in the remake).
If I'm remembering correctly, that's right. Each materia had a number of stars to master it, and you could cast each spell granted by it a number of times equal to the level (number of stars) you'd reached with it.
If you went Free-archetype Talisman Dabbler and introduced a "You can use a talisman a number of times per day equal to your Charisma modifier" type mechanic, you could come pretty close to creating an FFVII style campaign IMO.
That's closer to what I'd do, yeah, though if I was leaning into the FF7 flavor I'd probably have least/lesser/greater versions that governed the options and uses per day, rather than tying them to an ability score (since that's a scaling use mechanism that PF2 uses pretty sparingly).
And if I had way more free time than I do now, I might even look at rules for "evolving" the materia as you go along, but that starts to butt into a level of complexity that has decreasing value for a lot of players, so not sure if it's really worth it.
I guess if you're building your FF7 homebrew world around the expectation of materia being a thing every character will have some amount of, you could actually hitch your uses per day and other variables directly to your class/spell DC proficiency? That'd automatically ensure that the more mystical characters are the better materia casters, but not overwhelmingly so since pretty much every class hits at least master sooner or later.
Since when does materia self-destruct upon use though?Like I'm fairly certain the old Fire/Thunder/Etc. spells only did the Spell a number of times equal to the spell level (so if it was a level 1 materia, you get one cast), but maybe I'm misremembering (definitely not present in the remake).If I'm remembering correctly, that's right. Each materia had a number of stars to master it, and you could cast each spell granted by it a number of times equal to the level (number of stars) you'd reached with it.
No, you can cast a spell from a materia as long as you have enough MP to do so. The number of stars just adds extra/more powerful spells (so a 2 star fire materia would allow you to cast fire and fire2/fira).
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No, you can cast a spell from a materia as long as you have enough MP to do so. The number of stars just adds extra/more powerful spells (so a 2 star fire materia would allow you to cast fire and fire2/fira).
Summon and Support materia (like All) definitely work the way I describe, I just couldn't remember if Magic materia followed the same rule. I'd probably still use a /per day structure for materia implemented the way we're talking about. It's a cleaner balance and characters in PF2 have stronger base chassis' than the characters in OG FF7.
Summon and Support materia (like All) definitely work the way I describe, I just couldn't remember if Magic materia followed the same rule. I'd probably still use a /per day structure for materia implemented the way we're talking about. It's a cleaner balance and characters in PF2 have stronger base chassis' than the characters in OG FF7.
No, you can cast a spell from a materia as long as you have enough MP to do so. The number of stars just adds extra/more powerful spells (so a 2 star fire materia would allow you to cast fire and fire2/fira).
Final Attack definitely worked that way too I believe.