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Greetings law abiding citizens, i made this here guide on how to be a stuck up douchebaggy smartypants. Enjoy and let me know about the grave errors i made in the making of the document
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I only have two comments:
You rate the "Skill Feats" (1 per 2 levels) class feature B. Literally every class but the rogue gets this exact feature. I wouldn't even bother mentioning it, just as you don't mention prof increases.
Under "other useful archetypes" you should include the Medic for those forensics folks who want to go all in.
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Ranged is much better than any melee for a investigator, you really don't gain anything by going melee, and if you go ranged you actually increase your damage, which is usually it's drawback.
Eldritch Archer is amazing for an investigator. It's the best archetype/class combo I think.
I only have two comments:
You rate the "Skill Feats" (1 per 2 levels) class feature B. Literally every class but the rogue gets this exact feature. I wouldn't even bother mentioning it, just as you don't mention prof increases.
Under "other useful archetypes" you should include the Medic for those forensics folks who want to go all in.
Agreed, those are both very fair points, i left the archetypes section purposedly half empty since i dont really know all of them and there are a lot, i will fill it up with suggestions.
Ranged is much better than any melee for a investigator, you really don't gain anything by going melee, and if you go ranged you actually increase your damage, which is usually it's drawback.
Eldritch Archer is amazing for an investigator. It's the best archetype/class combo I think.
Not entirely true, in melee you can do maneuvers and support your team with medicine for example, also ranged damage is not always better, a shortbow is basically a ranged rapier in that regard.
Eldrich archer sure does a lot of damage but you dont always have the action economy and feat space to pull it off, i think a B is a fair estimation of this| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Greetings law abiding citizens, i made this here guide on how to be a stuck up douchebaggy smartypants. Enjoy and let me know about the grave errors i made in the making of the document
Thanks for your work! I'm always excited when a new guide is published.
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Ranged is much better than any melee for a investigator, you really don't gain anything by going melee, and if you go ranged you actually increase your damage, which is usually it's drawback.
Eldritch Archer is amazing for an investigator. It's the best archetype/class combo I think.
Not entirely true, in melee you can do maneuvers and support your team with medicine for example, also ranged damage is not always better, a shortbow is basically a ranged rapier in that regard.
Eldrich archer sure does a lot of damage but you dont always have the action economy and feat space to pull it off, i think a B is a fair estimation of this
But you have a free hand with a short bow, you can still use maneuvers or medicine.
Maybe the intent was to say that they expect you to be in a better position for those maneuvers if you were already fighting in melee? The flip side of that would be that with a bow you're in a better position to strike an alternate target when you expect to miss with your Stratagem result.
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Maybe the intent was to say that they expect you to be in a better position for those maneuvers if you were already fighting in melee? The flip side of that would be that with a bow you're in a better position to strike an alternate target when you expect to miss with your Stratagem result.
Precisely, those statements are both correct
Greetings law abiding citizens, i made this here guide on how to be a stuck up douchebaggy smartypants. Enjoy and let me know about the grave errors i made in the making of the document
Added to my resource site. The first investigator guide, nice.
Nice guide!Thankx for the work, is a good read and good food for thought.
My opinion on some points:
- I would say Keen recollection is a C. Can be good, but probably you are going to have enough skill points to get all the recall knowledge skills, mostly if you build a "know all" investigator.
- Abilty scores: I would include a "Know all" investigator (increasing the Wis to a B), sacrificing survival/ damage. Also I would include a "Face" Investigator, making Cha a B rating, sacrifing survival/wisdom/damage. This should cover some investigator builds not made for combat only.
- Halfing is a good A for Investigator: You have things like the Heritage Observant Halfing (+1 to your Perception DC does work with some feats like Forsee Danger or Pointed Question, when they try to lie to you, etc). Also they have Halfing weapon familiarity and Halfing weapon trickster, so you get crit spec. with the Halfin Sling staff, Filchers Fork and shortsword, all of them good weapons for an Investigator).
- Known weakness: For me is an A. I never skip this feat when I build an Investigator. A free recall for something that you are going to do anyway almost every turn... And on top of that if you crit. the recall. you and your party get a +1 atack for the next atack. What else would you ask for a feat?
- The 1st lvl feat Underground Investigator is missing in the guide.
- Thorough reasearch is a solid B for me. I don´t get why a GM would not tell you more info when you recall knowledge. In fact, if you take Known weakness, this should be an A.
- Forsee danger is a B for me. Not improving Wis shouldn´t be that common on an investigator. Also is usefull when your AC is lowered (flat-flooded for example).
- Archer is also good because you get the crit especilization in ranged weapons.
- I would take a look in the beastmaster archetype. I think can work nicely with the Investigator (mostly with the Bird).
- If you plan into making the guide bigger, maybe a section with examples of actions/turns...
-I am not really familiar with that kind of build, do you mean focussing on mental abilities and picking up a caster archetype for damage?
-I dont know, i dont see much point to incuding those as build paths, your feat choices are not going to be very different, you still should pick int as your highest stat and if you want a casting archetype you should still pick an intelligence one
-Agreed, halflings are good and i did not notice untill i tried one in a oneshot yesterday, i will change the rating accordingly
-I somehow missed that it was an actual recall knowledge and not just a check, damn. A grade absolutely, i will immediatly change it. I nerfed my characters so much, i hate myself
-Yes, that is an editing mistake, i will fix that forthright
-Because as i said the text leave this to the DM without specifics and i had some real bad DM. I specified that if he is nice it is better though. I probably should specify that it is a prerequisite for Just the Facts though
-Mmmhr, i dont know about that. I have to make some calculations.
-Fair point, i will specify that.
-I never tried it, i will look it up
-Cound be a nice idea, i will think about it
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Forensic Medicine (because you will want the Wis as higher as posible)
When I build for Forensic Medicine, I don't go out of my way to increase Wis: instead I go Assurance [medicine] as you can get a 16 with assurance at 2nd, making your base DC's and avoiding crit fails.
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Forensic Medicine (because you will want the Wis as higher as posible)When I build for Forensic Medicine, I don't go out of my way to increase Wis: instead I go Assurance [medicine] as you can get a 16 with assurance at 2nd, making your base DC's and avoiding crit fails.
I'm playing a Medicine focused Investigator for AoEW right now and high wisdom, I feel, is almost a must.
Setting aside that its used for perception, which is huge in itself, the early level math on Assurance just isn't there. You need to make actual rolls are you aren't doing squat.
Unless you take the Medic dedication at 2nd, you aren't using assurance to hit the DC15 on Treat wounds until 3rd. Even at that, you'll never be able meet the same levels as just rolling for it (with bonuses) will be able to.
I plan to pick up Assurance down the road (investigators certainly have the skill feats to spare!) for use with Battle Medicine for those high-penalty situations, but outside of that you are doing yourself a disservice by not having a high wisdom.
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Edit:
Hol'up
How are you getting 16 on your Medicine at 2nd with just assurance?
Proficiency is Training (+2) + level (in this case also 2) + 10 for assurance, for a total of 14 - meaning you aren't making the DC15 needed for the slowest DC of treat wounds.
If at 2nd level you take the Medic dedication, you do get Expert medicine, which would mean you could make the DC 16, but that's not going work for everyone.
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I'm playing a Medicine focused Investigator for AoEW right now and high wisdom, I feel, is almost a must.
Well Wis, Dex and Con are nice for saves and Dex/Con are nice just to stay alive [hp and AC]. Int is of course your main, so you're looking at 4 stats and, IMO, wis isn't one of your top picks especially if you expect to be running around to heal people in combat. Now I'm not advocating dumping it by any means, but for me I started at a 12.
perception
Starting at expert + a 12 wis was fine for me
Hol'up
How are you getting 16 on your Medicine at 2nd with just assurance?
Proficiency is Training (+2) + level (in this case also 2) + 10 for assurance, for a total of 14 - meaning you aren't making the DC15 needed for the slowest DC of treat wounds.
If at 2nd level you take the Medic dedication, you do get Expert medicine, which would mean you could make the DC 16, but that's not going work for everyone.
Investigators get a skill increase at 2nd... "You can use this increase to either become trained in one skill you're untrained in or to become an expert in one skill in which you're already trained."
Myself though, if you're a Forensic Medicine Investigator, Medic is kind of a no brainer. Free Medicine bump, extra HP when you heal, work on immune creatures 1/day. And the backup Doctor's Visitation is 100% worth it. Then add in it has 2 skill feats you can take and you can complete the archetype at 4th.
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Forensic Medicine (because you will want the Wis as higher as posible)When I build for Forensic Medicine, I don't go out of my way to increase Wis: instead I go Assurance [medicine] as you can get a 16 with assurance at 2nd, making your base DC's and avoiding crit fails.I'm playing a Medicine focused Investigator for AoEW right now and high wisdom, I feel, is almost a must.
Setting aside that its used for perception, which is huge in itself, the early level math on Assurance just isn't there. You need to make actual rolls are you aren't doing squat.
Unless you take the Medic dedication at 2nd, you aren't using assurance to hit the DC15 on Treat wounds until 3rd. Even at that, you'll never be able meet the same levels as just rolling for it (with bonuses) will be able to.
I plan to pick up Assurance down the road (investigators certainly have the skill feats to spare!) for use with Battle Medicine for those high-penalty situations, but outside of that you are doing yourself a disservice by not having a high wisdom.
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Edit:
Hol'up
How are you getting 16 on your Medicine at 2nd with just assurance?
Proficiency is Training (+2) + level (in this case also 2) + 10 for assurance, for a total of 14 - meaning you aren't making the DC15 needed for the slowest DC of treat wounds.
If at 2nd level you take the Medic dedication, you do get Expert medicine, which would mean you could make the DC 16, but that's not going work for everyone.
You could also just increase it normally at level 2.
Loremaster. Bardic lore for one feat. All I'm going to say.
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Loremaster. Bardic lore for one feat. All I'm going to say.
Edit: I mean, if you want the GM to hate you.
LOL Yeah. Loremaster, Medic and Eldrich archer are all nice additions: It's tough to pick which one, if any, you pick as investigator feats are pretty solid too.
Another of my favorite builds I haven't got to play yet is the Dragon Tracker.
You play an Alchemical Investigator, and take Dragon Disciple (yes, really), so you can take dragon scales and stack them with the Drakeheart Mutagens you're taking every fight.
Level 4, 25 AC.
Edit: And if your GM gives you a hard time over uncommon, well, just say it's a side effect of all those Mutagens you've been chugging.
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I once found that if you take lore skills for individual monster types (such as lore(undead)), a level 1 wizard with 18 int can Id every single type of monster with intelligence alone at level 1. This would mean arcana (wizards are auto trained), occultism, society, and one lore skill for every monster type ID'd by the wisdom skills.
An investigator has 2 more skill points than a wizard (3 if you go Empiricism, which you would want anyway for a knowledge character).
Of course, you might seek to grab the additional lore feat instead of picking a regular skill. this would grant you the lore skill, and it would automatically upgrade the skill at levels 3, 7, and 15. As a result, you might end up better at recall knowledge checks on creatures from the wisdom list rather than the intelligence list (since you have to raise either arcana or occultism up first using natural skill progression).
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Updated the guide with a mental stats build and some build examples, now i feel dirty inside for having sullied a perfectly good science class with magic, i hope you all are happy now.
I feel some kind of bias against Face role in this guide.
I'm currently playing an Interrogation Investigator in Age of Ashes and I max out Cha along with the Int. Feints, Demoralize or Create a Distraction are great for a 3rd action or a substitute in case of "failed" Devising Strategem.But yeah, I'm kinda making a shenanigan either way - Hellspawn Ratfolk Investigator (Interrogation) with Wizard and upcoming Hellknight Signifer dedications :D
You are mostly correct, i do am a little biased in that regard. I suppose you could do a face investigator but i also feel like there are several classes that can do it quite a bit better and I feel like it is a bit gimmicky. Also i would like to point out that feint only works against your attacks wich is mostly useless for the investigator's third actioun unless i am missing some details
I want to point out an obvious omission to your "strength build"
If you go Alchemical sciences you can safely drop Sentinel as a "mandatory archetype" and instead rely on your Drakeheart mutagens.
With a 14 dex, which you can even delaey for like level 5 to get, even 12 is good enough for early levels, you will be sporting some of the highest AC available to you.
This has the added benefits of:
*having "free" +item bonus to Perception, wihch is one of your most important "skills" taht's better than any on-level permanent item
*no speed penalty
*an extra "ok" action if you need to burst your speed
*you can delay the aquiring of your armor potency runes until you reach the equivalent resiliency runes (and at that point, armor potency are reletively extremely cheap compared to getting them on-level)
*And the obvious minus of -1 to Recalls though.Furthermore, you don't really "need" to max strength this way.
Since you are attacking with Int either way, and since you aren't wearing heavy armor, Strength offers mostly damage and nothing else.
You can easily be at 12-14 and be extremely effective in melee range since you have the AC equivalent of wearing heavy armor with the added benefit of early "item bonuses" on it.
Yeah, if. And even then it is not a given since you have limited batches that are going to run out in a dungeon crawl unless you use them only for that or you are high level. This hampers the main benefit of alchemical science, the versatility it gives you. Also the mutagen requires an action, you have several levels when a dedication does not hurt (you only need the dedication for full heavy armor scaling) and you are going to suck at reflex saves. That said, the mutagen is very good and can be quite nice but i would not base my character around it.
The other points you bring up i have said already in some points of the guide, so we agree
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You are mostly correct, i do am a little biased in that regard. I suppose you could do a face investigator but i also feel like there are several classes that can do it quite a bit better and I feel like it is a bit gimmicky. Also i would like to point out that feint only works against your attacks wich is mostly useless for the investigator's third actioun unless i am missing some detailsI feel some kind of bias against Face role in this guide.
I'm currently playing an Interrogation Investigator in Age of Ashes and I max out Cha along with the Int. Feints, Demoralize or Create a Distraction are great for a 3rd action or a substitute in case of "failed" Devising Strategem.But yeah, I'm kinda making a shenanigan either way - Hellspawn Ratfolk Investigator (Interrogation) with Wizard and upcoming Hellknight Signifer dedications :D
Just noting that an investigator’s “third action” doesn’t have to be their third action. You can devise a stratagem, feint, then attack. So if you have narrowed down what you need to hit and know that feinting will make the difference, you can do that before you attack. Not saying that is or isn’t worth building a character around, but being able to choose when you attack is part of what makes devise so strong.
Also a mesmerizing opal can extend the flat footed until the end of your next turn (once, as it’s a talisman). Again, situationally useful.
Bladed hoop, bladed diablo and spiked chain also work.
Just got to read this guide. Nice, but Ability Score Choices: Dex has a BAD typo.
Also, would be nice to see an Interrogation (Charisma) build, since this is rated C and not F (but then Charisma is rated F). Does Pathfinder 2nd Edition have any way to convert Charisma skills to Intelligence skills like Pathfinder 1st Edition had with certain Traits?
I actually think the fighter archetype is great for the investigator. It gives you access to power attack, like mauler does, as well as as dual handed assault both of which increase the damage dice of your weapon. If you're a dex build you get access to parting shot as well.
Not to mention fighter resiliency for when you're in melee range. It's quite a few feats to give up but the investigator doesn't have all that many attack feat options to begin with.
Martial artist is probably better however for giving you a d6 weapon you don't have to draw and power attack, stances, critical specialization,... I'd probably rate it as S
Also the light pick deserves a mention among weapons imo for being an agile deadly (fatal) weapon. It's only a d4 when not critting however.
Something I want to play eventually is an ancient elf investigator fighter. For 2 ancestry feats you get access to critical specialization with the rapier, ECB and bows. Fighter dedication giving you a bunch of different attacks.
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The main problem with Light Pick, IMO is that it is not Finesse. So, unless you go STR Investigator, your alternate attack (when your Devise Stratagem roll is not good) will have really lower chances to hit and to crit. For STR builds, it might be better though.
I would also mention the Nunchaku because it is the best Finesse Bludgeoning weapon.
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Yeah I used the damage calculator tool that TheAziraphale made at some point and the light pick doesn't fare all that well.
I'm a bit annoyed just how good martial artist is sometimes tbh.
Nice guide! You made me reevaluate several class feats. One correction, though…
Staff Acrobat:B
Potentially pretty good, just be sure to pick up takedown expert if you go with a bo staff.
Sadly Takedown Expert requires that you use the weapon one-handed so it won't work with a bo staff.
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Nice guide! You made me reevaluate several class feats. One correction, though…
Sadly Takedown Expert requires that you use the weapon one-handed so it won't work with a bo staff.Staff Acrobat:B
Potentially pretty good, just be sure to pick up takedown expert if you go with a bo staff.
Yes, that was a fumble on my part, fixed
Added to my resource site. The first investigator guide, nice.Greetings law abiding citizens, i made this here guide on how to be a stuck up douchebaggy smartypants. Enjoy and let me know about the grave errors i made in the making of the document
I know this is a response to an old post, but your link in your resource guide to the investigator build goes to a champion build guide. Not sure if you are still building this guide to the guides, but if you are you might ant to fix the link.