Aswaarg's page

Organized Play Member. 121 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 3 Organized Play characters.


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It looks very nice, and is a very interesting idea. Not sure if I am going to be able to try it with my players, but I will try.

Anyway, just wanted to say that looks really nice and shows that you put a lot of work in it. Nice job!

I would love to know more about how the prject goes.

P.S. Ohh this "mode" ported to a VTT could be amazing.


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Tootally agree with you. Modern times should lead to modern ways. Also having a blog section were this changes are discussed by the designers would be nice.


Errenor wrote:
MrCharisma wrote:
Are you sure it overwrites? I can absolutely see it being ruled either way. (I'm not saying you're definitely wrong, just that I don't think you're definitely right.)
Because it says twice 'both spaces' and not 'all the spaces you were in before this ability and also one another space'. That for me is overwriting. And then if that's not enough, mirroring breaks not on specific, but on an open list of things which "force you to determine which image is the real you". I think a new use of this ability does that, again, because of 'you occupy both spaces'.

I don´t read it like you do. It says

"but any effects you generate come from only one of your positions; you decide which each time you act. For example, if you made a melee Strike against a creature within reach of the reflection, you'd mime the actions of the Strike, but only the reflection would actually make the Strike."

So you can generate effects and apply them from your reflection, like Striking, casting spells, or even doing more reflections. You can even move from your image, but that is an effect that breaks the images. In fact, the list for breaking the images is: Move out of the space (gettin up from prone doesnt do it, getting pushed doesnt break it), start of your turn. For adept it adds getting damaged by an adjacent enemy and that´s it. There are no other effects that force you to determine wich is the real you.

As I undernstand it, there is going to have table variance, but I would rule that you can have more than 1 image, it is pretty cool, you can do the spiderman meme and I don´t think it breaks anything at all.


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I see overflows as a resource to cast once or twice in a combat, not the main action every turn, being the blast or other impulses the main thing for the kinecist. Maybe is not what most people whant and something should be changed, but I think the development for this class is the main feature, the blasts.


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I was under the impresion that the earth element you gathered transformed into the shield until the start of your next turn, then it transformed again to the earth element. Relevant part:

You Raise a Shield, turning your gathered element
into the shield and gaining a +2 circumstance bonus to AC
until the start of your next turn. (You can still use this shield
for anything requiring a gathered element).

Reinforcing that idea is the mechanic that if you use it to block, you lose the shield and so the element.

I was talking with some friends about using a earth weapon and the shield, and some of them thought that you could have both at the same time (start with the weapon on hand, use stone shield, getting the element from the sword). We had some troubles trying to solve if it is intended for the shield to count as the gathered element so you can´t have a shield and a weapon, or if the "transformation of the element" is just flavor text. In any case, it would be so could to be abale to have a stone shield (or another elemntal shield) and having a weapon at the same time (from the same element or from another element).


You can start with the element gathered at the start of the combat (like you can start with your weapon in your hand), that mitigates the problem. Using Overflow actions and then having to Gather can be a problem, but the main thing for the kinecist seems to be the elemental blast, and that doesnt consume the element. Overflow are feats that you can opt to take or to skip.

Regarding Gather element, I don´t like that you can´t have 2 diferent elements gathered at the same time (1 in each hand). Could be cool to facilite the switch elements thing and to allow to consume one but still keeping the other active for other things. I think that could be a coll feat


In regard of feats, I miss something to make the the psiquic able to cast spells without beign noticed it is a caster. Things like conceal spell and silent spell. I guess is less important because of the low number of spell slots that this class have, but the psiquic that uses his powers without nobody in the room knowing is too much iconic in the media to not have this kind of feats.


What are the uses of the Hunter´s bane Talisman?

https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=217

As far as I know, when a enemy who is undetected attacks, he reveals himself, going to the observed status, the effect of the talisman is worst than that.

In some rare ocasions, afeter attacking, the enemy could go from undetected to hidden (improved invisibility or something like that), the talisman would not give anything relevant in this case.

There is a corner case. The enemy is using improved invisibility and shooting invisible arrows with a spell like this https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=700. In that case, the enemy would still be undetected after attacking and the hunter´s bane would do something (you would now where the enemy is and he would not know that you know it, so he doesn´t have motives to reposition and hide again).

So, this is right and the talisman is very niche (and I would say bad)? Or did get something wrong in the rules and the talisman works in more common circumstances?

*

Nefreet wrote:
The necklace needs to be in-hand otherwise it teleports back to the starting point.

I only found this reggarding the teleport back:

"It immediately teleports back to area D1 at the end of any round when it is not within 5 feet of a living or undead creature."

Did I miss something elsewhere?

*

Another question, ¿How the Crawling Hands try to steal the objetc? Disarm if the object is carried in the hand but ¿What else if is on a backpack/pouch?

*

Zachary Davis wrote:

Never been good at running haunts. Coming here to make sure I am reading this correctly.

In all of the haunts stat blocks, it list the routine and in parenthesis it says "three actions". According to AON it means, each round the haunt as three actions to use. Got it.

After that, they all place the description of what it does on its routine. However, it does not state if that action is one or three.

For example: The Spite of the Righteous in D3.

Quote:
Routine(three actions) The warrior's blade sweeps through the bodies of any living creature within sight of the exit stairs, and they each take 1d10+4 slashing damage. (DC 20 basic fortitude save). Undead creatures in the area gain 5 temporary hit points.

Not I can see it has two ways.

1) It just goes off once as part of it's routine and they just have no additional actions listed in the template. Begging this one

2) It can activate three times, once per action. Hoping this is not it. 3 attacks at 1d10+4 against level 1-2s are brutal

Not having actions below the routine means it uses all his 3 actions doing what the routine says. So 1).

I have a question about THE OUBLIETTE. Is meant to be played in darkness or what is the light level? Is not said anywhere nad it feels to me taht should be in darkness (unless the previous Pathfinders laid some everburning torches or something like that?)


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So, first coclusion is expect table variation.

After reading all the arguments, I will rule in my table that if the summoner is under invisibility/sanctuary and the eidolon atacks, the summoner will remain under the spell. If it feels to good I will revise it.

My argument is, hostile action definition implies to take an action, wich are defined in the rules. Leting the summon act us not an action, is a choice the player does.

The other point is that both are linked characters, but are not the same one, and is the player (not the summoner) who choses how the actions are resolved, there is no need for the player to justify what the eidolon do, just as is not needed to justify why the summoner would do some actions.

Anyway, thanks everyone for the comments. I hope Paizo can chime in the hostile actions someday to clarify the situation.


How does it work?

Let´s say you are invisible (lvl 2 spell) and the Eidolon does an attack (not using tandem).

Do you lose the invisible condition?

*

The adventure says "If there are no active wards, Sezruth flees with
dimension door when reduced below 20 Hit Points (40
for Levels 3–4)."

But in the Sezruth description, it only has a lvl 4 Dimension door, so it can only go as far as vision... (wich is not much).

Is intended so the players can chase him? Or is a mistake and Sezruth should have lvl 5 Dimension Door?

*

I missed that part, thank you for the indication.

Knowing that falling into the lava is considered an "unlikely" event, I should play the Mephit as not wanting to push them into the lava I guess.

*

I have talked about this on the Org Play Discord, but I am bringing here for more discussion/answers.

How should be the lava be treated in this map? What happens if a players falls in? Should the NPCs use this environmental threat even if it is not indicated in their tactics (talking mostly about the Mephit)


Megistone wrote:

Was it sarcastic, Dansome?

I would just like to point out that these modules are made by fans in their free time, and shared with the community without any profit.

It clearly is, Elfteiroh said "creature" instead of "creator". I think it was a typing error and Megistoneis joking about it.


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Short answer. Clearly this system does not support your idea of Stealth rules. For most of us it works ok, but is not perfect.


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The easiest way to solve this is playing with the ABP variant rule. This makes all your weapons +X and striking for your level.It feels so good when you can switch your weapon or when you wear a bunch of throwing stuff and your damage doesn't get plummed.


One thing the Witch has abd nobody else does is the 1 day/resurection for the familiar. Maybe that got overvalued during the design of the class and the witch ended in a bad spot compared to other classes.


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Regarding the Skull, you could also smash the gems with attacks:

AC 24; Fort +17, Ref +8
Hardness 14, HP 56 (BT 28); Immunities critical hits, fire, object immunities, precision damage.


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Our house rule is:

- New rolls are allowed.
- If you fail, you can make a new roll, but with an increased dificulty (same increments as the oficial rule)
- Succes or Crit Succes don´t increase the dificulty for a new roll.
- Crit. failure makes impossible to re-roll.
- We don´t use false information on Crit. Failures.

I don´t feel is unrealistic this way, because in the real life you have some knowleadge but you don´t remember right away (anyone forgot how a rule was exactly, but came to your mind some minutes later?), that would be a case of Fail but you can keep trying.

This rule doen´t make Recall Knowledge over used in combat (in fact is used the same times as the OP said), because in the end, it cost an action and the there is a limited amount of info relevant from a creature.

In the exploration mode is the same house rule and we feel it works perfectly.


In my expirience, you are going to use a composition cantrip every turn. You are not going to use lingering composition if you expect to use the Counter Performance this combat. And when the trigger for the reaction happens, you will evaluate if the use of Counter Performance deserve to lose the previous composition (Inspire courage, Dirge of Dooom), for example if you are the next on the initiative track you will use it, if the effects of the bad thing are mild probably you will not use it.

In the end, Counter Performance is a nice trick, but is not going to determine your usual combat tactics. The worst thing of this cantrip is knowing when a thing has a visual or auditory trait. You will ask your GM over an over if you can use Counter Performance.


About point 4. another question to do is How much can a tiny creature/player jump. I guess its only related to the speed so, the same as other creatures but... it feels weird.


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Target (spell rules) wrote:
Some spells allow you to directly target a creature, an object, or something that fits a more specific category. The target must be within the spell’s range, and you must be able to see it (or otherwise perceive it with a precise sense) to target it normally. At the GM’s discretion, you can attempt to target a creature you can’t see, as described in Detecting Creatures on pages 465–467. If you fail to target a particular creature, this doesn’t change how the spell affects any other targets the spell might have.
Concealed wrote:
While you are concealed from a creature, such as in a thick fog, you are difficult for that creature to see. You can still be observed, but you're tougher to target. A creature that you're concealed from must succeed at a DC 5 flat check when targeting you with an attack, spell, or other effect. Area effects aren't subject to this flat check. If the check fails, the attack, spell, or effect doesn't affect you.

Emphasis mine.

So, general rule, you can target directly. Specific rule, if the target has the Concealed condition, you have to check if the spell affects you or not.

The only thing that makes Magic missile diferent from other spells is that you Hit automatically, but the target must be done first and has to be right (for example you can´t target a creature outside the 120 feet, even if yopu see the target).

For example, I would rule that you can use Magic Missile agains a hidden creature (even if you don´t see it), you have to roll the DC 11. Yes, the spell says that you send the dart towards a creature that you can see, but that is the general rule for the spell, and there are specific rules for hidden creatures.

I see this cristal clear, but we will need a FAQ (not even an errata) to solve this and other questions.


Targeting is the caster pointing his finger to the enemy. So if the enemy is concealed (or hidden), the caster can miss pointing the enemy and it makes another thing the target (the wall behind for example),so the missiles always hit the target, but is not what the caster intended.


I was toying with an Alchemist-mutagenist, with the idea of it being a punching bag (juggernaut or drakenhearth mutagens) and a buffer (giving alchemist items to the party for pre-buffing). I haven´t built it, but pretty sure is not going to be the best tank ever.


After reading your advice I have tried again to build an Oracle (Tried booth, Bones route and Ancestors route).

The thing with Oracle is that, until at lvl 3 (when you get spells lvl 2), you don´t have have anything That feels that you can read the future with some chicken bones or take a knife and feel the pain of the victim or things like that.

With 2nd lvl spells, you can dome some things (like Augury or Spirit Sense). And being the Oracle a spontaneous spellcaster, you have to only chose 1 of those spells (if you want to have some resources for battles).

This feels to me too late and too little. It is true that at lvl 6 Spiritual Sense feels amazing for this kind of character, but having to wait until that feels to long...

Don´t get me wrong, I know I can re-skin some features form the oravle to make it look more like a Medium / Fortune teller starting from level 1, but I would prefer if there was something to help the investigations from the begining.

@ JackieLane

The Vigil domain could be good option. For the archetype from the other AP, we try to not use them at least util we have played the AP, so we can keep it fresh.

@ Castilliano

The domain Fate feels right, Read fate is the kind of spell that this character would use.

Anyway, it feels to me that most spells right now are focused on the combat part. For sure when the Secrets of Magic comes out this will improve and maybe will be more options for this kind of character.

I will toy with a Cloistered Cleric (probably Fate domain) and the posible MCD (maybe Sorcerer/Witch fo acces to more divination spells).

Anyway, thank you all for the advice!


So, for a future game on the Agents of Edgewatch I want to build a Medium and/or Fortune Teller. I picture him like the typical guy who "helps" the police on movies / series, but in these case it has real powers (so really helps).

It can be either a guy who talks with the spirits (the dead ones but could be the spirits of the objects, reading auras and all that thing) or a guy who reads the future, does predictions about were can be a clue, etc. Maybe a mix of both ways.

So, with this concept in mind, I went to the Oracle (who is better for predicting the future?). I readed the mysteries and the feats and it didn´t felt right for the concept.

So I opened the scope and took a look at the other spellcasters.

The Wizard has the divination school, but feels too academic.

Sorceror and Witch can pick the Occultism spell list, the best one for this kind of spells. But neither of those have anything on the build to improve this concept.

Cleric could be a choice maybe? Maybe with the right domains, but all the free healing and having to follow a deity doesn´t feel right.

Druid and Bard didn´t consider.

So. What would you do? What would you pick?


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I dont get why firearms are good against oozes for example.

If this was a special ammunition thing, I could get it, but firearms being versatiles by default feels wrong to me.


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One thing to think about are the map constrains. If you want several encounters in the same location and you want a more plausible behavior of the cretures, the encounters should be placed far away. In enclosed locations (dungeons, caves, castles, etc), this means drawing tons of rooms/corridors or big ones, and then putting "something"bin them(descriptions, items, information,etc)so it doesnt feel wasted space. Right now this kind of maps are the big ones, but they would need to be bigger.

In open locations(cities for example), the distances between point A (the dock) and point b (the town square) are big and dont need to be drawn. You will have X small maps.

Investing in maps cost money and page count.


Claxon wrote:
Decimus Drake wrote:
Because magic?
I came here to give exactly this answer

+1


The searching method varies from table to table. My players want it to be handwaved, even when I try to reconduct them to a more detailed search. Usually, afetr exposing a room in the map, the game goes like this:

GM: Read the ambient text of the room

Player 1: I check the room

GM: Wich part?

Player 1: All in general.

GM: Consult the rest of the players what they want to do in 10 minutes.

GM: (After doing checks) Ok you take 10 minutes, you don´t find anything interesting.

Player 2: Ok I have refocused, and the others need to get healed, so the next 10 minutes, I will search the room too.

GM: Wich part?

Player 2: The room in general...

Now, if the party has an Investigator, It´s going to be:

They enter the room, I read the ambient text, then:

A) If there is something hidden, I will tell the party were to search. And they also will need to look in other parts of the room too (maybe there are more secrets, traps, etc).

B) There is nothing hidden in the room, so I will say nothing to the Investigator, so they will not waste time looking in that room.

In case A, if they try to search and fail again and again, I will rule that they need to get a new aproach (new information, equipment, some time past, etc).

In the end, I dont see how "Thats odd" can grant the players free plot points. They have to pass the check and sometimes theres going to be more than 1 hidden thing in a room (can be a hidden treasure, a trap and a clue for the murder), and you as GM don´t need to tell the Investigator the most important one.


Thanx for considering the points. I´m glad I helped a little bit xD

Regarding the unclear ones:

- Investigator as a "Know all" build: The Investigator can become the best character in a party for Recall knowledge, no matter what type is it, and focusing on this the character doesn´t lose a lot of combat utility. This happens mostly when you build a Forensic Medicine (because you will want the Wis as higher as posible) or an Empircist (because you get free Recall Know., free Seek and free Sense motive, so Wis is important to raise). If you build a high Int, high Wis, and you have tons of feats that makes Recall Knowledge better (like Known weakness), you probably will want all the skills related to Rec. Know. as high as posible.

- Investigator as "Face": Sometimes your party doesn´t have a guy who can do the talks. The investigator is versatile, so can be built around a high Int, high Cha build. The Interrogator is the best suited for this kind of role, but can be done with the other ones. Now, how much do you want to sacrifice from the combat aspect for a better social aspect is imrpotant, and it will depend in the campaign and play style. But in general now there are good skill feats for a "Face" character that can be used during combat (like Bon Mot or Intimidate) and works well with the 1 Devise + 1 Atack + 1 thing in the Investigator routine. Also a note here, the Marshall archetype works really well with this builds.

- Thorough reasearch: As I read it, you get an aditional fact if you succeed at the check always, the GM can´t say no. It´s when you Critically succeed when it´s at GM discretion. Also, I think the "at GM discretion" means that he can give you aditional information or more context (one or the other, at his discretion), but should give something (if able). But in the end, if the GM doesn´t want to increse the info on a Crit, the results with this feat should be : Succeed - Learn 2 things, Crit - 2 things + aditional information or context at GM discretion.


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Nice guide!Thankx for the work, is a good read and good food for thought.

My opinion on some points:

- I would say Keen recollection is a C. Can be good, but probably you are going to have enough skill points to get all the recall knowledge skills, mostly if you build a "know all" investigator.

- Abilty scores: I would include a "Know all" investigator (increasing the Wis to a B), sacrificing survival/ damage. Also I would include a "Face" Investigator, making Cha a B rating, sacrifing survival/wisdom/damage. This should cover some investigator builds not made for combat only.

- Halfing is a good A for Investigator: You have things like the Heritage Observant Halfing (+1 to your Perception DC does work with some feats like Forsee Danger or Pointed Question, when they try to lie to you, etc). Also they have Halfing weapon familiarity and Halfing weapon trickster, so you get crit spec. with the Halfin Sling staff, Filchers Fork and shortsword, all of them good weapons for an Investigator).

- Known weakness: For me is an A. I never skip this feat when I build an Investigator. A free recall for something that you are going to do anyway almost every turn... And on top of that if you crit. the recall. you and your party get a +1 atack for the next atack. What else would you ask for a feat?

- The 1st lvl feat Underground Investigator is missing in the guide.

- Thorough reasearch is a solid B for me. I don´t get why a GM would not tell you more info when you recall knowledge. In fact, if you take Known weakness, this should be an A.

- Forsee danger is a B for me. Not improving Wis shouldn´t be that common on an investigator. Also is usefull when your AC is lowered (flat-flooded for example).

- Archer is also good because you get the crit especilization in ranged weapons.

- I would take a look in the beastmaster archetype. I think can work nicely with the Investigator (mostly with the Bird).

- If you plan into making the guide bigger, maybe a section with examples of actions/turns for some of the builds could be interesting. The Investigator doesn´t work like an standard character in combat, so could be helpful. Building your character to use the 2 other actions when your Devise fails is interesting.

- In general, I think you focused the guide more with a melee point of view, but the Investigator is very well suited for a ranged build (I would say is even better). Also the Investigator is a good switcher, and some builds will not need to choose between ranged or melee and will have both (the problem there is having the money needed for the runes).


In my case, the players have an excell were they put the loot with the description. When they have spare time to identify, they will try to identify the most important things. This spare time happens when the medic needs to patch someone for 10 minutes and the mage doesn´t have to do other tasks. Other times they will use exploration tim or downtime to try this identifications, a running gag in our games is when al the party sits in a round table with all the loot in a pile and they hand around the items to identify.

In the end, when they are on an adventure (constrains in time) they care more about what they should identify (prioritazing what is more important for them), and when they are out of adventure, they will mass indentify the things.

Also, if your party is annoyed and wants to indentify a lot of things while adventuring, they could get the Quick Identification feat. It´s a skill feat lvl 1, and makes identification 1 min instead of 10 min. That should solve their problems.


thenobledrake wrote:
Aswaarg wrote:
But what about being under Sanctuary and debuff an enemy...
Negative conditions are harm, no question about it. Debuffs are hostile actions.

Maybe is because english is not my main language, but I don´t see debuffs as harm or hostile by default.

Couldn´t a extremly good NPC (like an angel or something) cast a spell to calm the emotions of a PC that is trying to atack the angel? I would rule that the angel is not using an hostile action nor is trying to harm the PC, even if it is a debuff...

Anyway, I can see it´s too complicated to get a consensus. The main rule here to apply should be the ambiguous Rule:

"Ambiguous Rules
Sometimes a rule could be interpreted multiple ways. If one version is too good to be true, it probably is. If a rule seems to have wording with problematic repercussions or doesn’t work as intended, work with your group to find a good solution, rather than just playing with the rule as printed."


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I know is less interesting than invisibility, but the same applies to Sanctuary.

And I think is interesting to detach this discussion from invisibility because being invisible and doing some kind of things can feel too much strong.

But what about being under Sanctuary and debuff an enemy (like evil eye, demoralize, or Bon Mot). Or in the other side, buffing your teamates with Stroke of hearts... Making "everything" an hostile action would impide some cool plays and nerf some things that are not overpowered (at least I think).

I liked the interpretations were if you start out of combat and do that action, would the NPC condider it Hostile? It is a good rule of thumb, but it feels hard to apply sometimes.

Lets make an example with the players on the other side of the effect. Let´s say a caravan with some merchants and guards meets the players on the road. One of the NPCs use a spell to buff their allies. Would the players feel that the NPCs are hostile? Would you describe this action as hostile to them?

In this same example, let´s say one of the guards makes fun from a PC because of his stature (I would say that´s a Bon Mot). Would the players consider this an hostile action?

Anyway, I was questiong myself about this, but I think the best answer for me and my players is trying to make it simple and fun. So I will go with buffing/deffing is ok. Doing any kind of damage is not ok.


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I think Investigator (Interrogator methodology) is a good pair for Marshall. I will try it with the Dread Stance (for the extra damage and the ocasional frightned).


Duelist can be a good pick for a flexible melee throwing build.

Swashbuckler is also good with Investigator.

As you said, Archer is good also (and I think Crossbow works because if you miss your devise, you dont need to waste your bolt).


Having a broad subject should not apply to specific subjects of that larger topic. If the subject is a room, you should get the bonud to investigatethe room (not the creatures inside, not the objects that you find, those are independent subjects). If the subject is an organization (a cult for example), you should get the bonus for investigating the cult, but each person in the cult is an independent subject, each room in a church of the cult is an individual subject, etc.

But this is my opinion, I am sure there is going to be a lot if GM variation.

Regarding the question of the post. First of all, I think geting Devise Stratagem on every combat would be too good to be true. You have to build your Investigator thinking that your Devise is going to cost an action always, and in some rare cases you will get the free Devise.

Of course there are ways to improve the chance of making a subject from the next fight, for example you could capture an enemy and make it talk about what is awaiting you, or as said before, having someone doing some recon for you (you dont need to do the stealh, they can tell you what the saw).


I have let my monks to get out of an stance for free, and I didn´t feel it was a OP. They have to use 1 action for getting the stance up again, and you can only use 1 stance action per turn.

For example the Mountain Stance, they can use it as a "Raise shield", were every turn they get it up, or they can leave the stance on and use 3 actions for other things.


That is true! I was wrong about Ongoing Strike.

It makes Int better then.


Claxon wrote:

I'm not sure why you would want to roll with low int instead of buffing it, but I suppose you could. It's not going to be as good, as your suggestion is just to build up wisdom instead for skills. And honestly, my response is you don't really have to choose too much. When building a character you can prioritize 3 stats without too much trouble. You're going to have to choose, because they wont all be equal, but because you can increase 4 stats at level up you can just choose 2 to be lousy at and everything else will increase.

I believe you can start an Investigator with 16, 14, 14, 10, 10, 8 and that would be a fine way to go.

Lets say you build character A), with 10 / 16 / 12 / 18 / 12 /10

And character B) with 10 / 16 / 12 / 16 / 14 / 10

In case A), whe you Devise, you win a +1 tothe hit roll (wich will or will not be relevant), in case B) you can Devise and your modifier for the Strike is going to be the same, no matter if you use Dex or Int.

Now, lets take case C) 10 / 16 / 12 / 14 / 16 /10. Now when you roll Devisa a Stratagem. If your check is going to hit the enemy just barely using your Dex mod (so total = AC), you will not get the Stategic Strike damage, but if the total using your Dex is superior to de AC (for 1 or more points), you are going to use the Int modificator, so you will apply the extra damage. The thing is that pre-rolling the dice you can take the best result for your action.

Now, is it worth to sacrifice that amount of damage? If it is, how much is worth downgrading your Int?

WatersLethe wrote:

Like you surmised, it's going to be tricky to get your Devise a Stratagem damage. I don't think it's really worth going the low int route because you'll be wasting so many actions over an encounter fishing for high rolls to counter your lower int.

Lots of feats key off of int and Devise a Stratagem, so your selection of useful in-class feats will be limited.

I'm just not sure at all why you would go into the class with the intention of hobbling Devise a Stratagem. Rogue should work better for most concepts with high dex low int.

There aren´t that many feats that are keyed with Int. MOst of them are "Recall knowleadge" related feats, were is also important to having a high Wis (you if you dump Int but rise Wis should be similar).

Level 2:

- Athletics Strategists: You would not profit of this one.

Level 4:

- Alchemical discoveries: It´s true that you are not going to chooose low Int if you go the alchemical methodolgy

- Scalpels point: It is going to be harder to crit if your Int is lower, so yeah it gets a little bit worst for every point you loose.

- Strategic assesment: Same as before.

Level 14:

- Strategic bypass: Is going to be harder substituting with the Int so this will be harder to apply.

Maybe I left something out, maybe the "recall knowledge" feats are more imporant and having both INt and Wis high is going to be very relevant. But I don´t feel losing the feat chocies above is that bad.

SuperBidi wrote:

I haven't read everything about the Investigator, but to me, the class concept is Int-based martial. If you want a Dex or Str-based martial, why don't you go Rogue? Maybe with an Investigator Dedication for some of the flavor stuff. But I think there's no point in building a low Int Investigator, not because it doesn't work, but because there are already tons of classes providing you such builds.

Edit: Ninjad!

I could do that and is a valid thing to do. But if I want an Int-martial-skill monkey, why I don´t go with the Rogue Master-Mind Racket?

In other words, what the Investigator brings to the table that other clases don´t do.

For my reasoingn, if you can build a low Int investigator and not suffer a lot from it, Int is not the main thing, but a usuefull ad-on.

Every time that I try t build a new Investigator, I always lean towards Wis (some of the good feats are based on Wis), and Int is something that is there, maybe I want a +1 or +2, but a +3 or +4 don´t improve the character that much.

Anyway, thaks the 3 of you for your input!


I think crossbows are good fir ghe investigator because if you dsil the Devise Strategie roll, you dont spend the bolt (so you dont waste the reroll action). Following this thinking, the throwing agile/finess weapons are also good choices, you can throw them only when you are sure you are hitting, and if you fail you keep it.

All this is true until lvl 10, when you can get the feat "Ongoing strategy", letting you apply the precision damage to all your atacjs. At that point, you should get an agile weapon for nelee or a bow for ranges, forget about devide a stratagem if is not a free action and try to do as much atacks as posible (probably taking feats for multiple atacks)


So, after reading the Investigator I have confronted feelings.

One thing that I was wondering i. How Int impact the investigator? Can I build one droping the main characteristic?

Having high Int is going to afect some of the "Recall knowledge" skills. That is going to affect the combat part, but mostly the out of combat part. But if you get high Wis instesd of Int, you are going to improve a lot of the other"investigative" skills (religion, perception, etc).

The main combat thing for the Investigator is the Devise a stratagem and the asociated Stategic Strike damage improvement. On that regard, you could build a high Dex low Int, and you can Devise and choose to apply the Int bonus when the roll is high enough and apply the Dex when the difference makes ghe hit. And when you reach lvl 10, you get Ongoing Strategy and you are going to apply the precision damage every time (so no need for Int bonus).

Talking about Methodologues, only with the Alchemical the Int feels relevant.

Am I crazy/wrong? Is this a bad build snd will crumble when playing? Am I right and some of the playtest feelings are still in here? (The Int is not enough relevant for the class)


Devise a Stratagem makes Reload 1 weapons way better, because you keep your weapon ready if you know you are going to miss.

So you Devise, if you are going to hit, reload and fire, if not, you can do X and reload for the next turn or do another 2 things and see if the next turn you got a better roll at Devise Stratagem.

This also means the melee throwing weapons are super versatile for the Investigator, because you can use them in Melee with your Int bonus and you can treat them as a 1 action reload ranged weapon.

It is true that I don´t expect for the Investigator to carry the damage in the team, most of the rounds is going to be 1 attack and others 0 attacks, but the flow of this class in combat seems pretty unique.


Are you not using lay on hands in combat?

1 action, healing and +2 status AC for 1 turn is amazing. And you don´t need hands free. I agree out of combat is good to, but don´t forget to use it on combat (I am saying it because I have a champion that always forgets).


@ Nefreet

That is fine for the narrative moment, when the players are going to figure an escape plan. But they also are going to do rules questions (in fact they did during the end of the last sesion, when I told them that they characters could be captured). They questions were How the spellcasting recovery works if we are imprisoned? And the focus points/spells? And I know the next session they are going to have more questions (manacles, gags, etc).

I can handwave all this things, and tell them the result I want ( for example: you don´t recover spells slots but you can pray to your god to recover a focus point). But my players are a bit rule lawyers and I want to have all the possible rules clear so when they ask them, I can give a proper answer.

@rainzax

That is a cool way of resolving that situation, and I love it. The thing is I know my players will not, they are "less narrative" and more "crunch numbers and roll" so the "burden of the narration" falls into me. Anyway thanx for the tip, will try to use it from time to time in low measures to see if they get used and like it xD

@Captain Zoom

Let´s say there is no permanent harm (because reasons), so no tonge cutting or hand smashing. If it helps, think about it in the other way, measures that a group of characters (heoric type ones, not murder hobos) would take to capture and retain an enemy.

For the measure that you propose (the more restrictive ones), let´s see what would mean regarding rules.

Removing equipment and cloths - This is clear

Isolated cells - Ok, they can´t talk to each other and can´t help each other. Also, I guess the conditions are bad, so they can´t rest properly (no spell slot recovery).

Hood and gag - They have the blind condition and they are ... silenced? muted? No condition in the rules for this that I am aware of.

Straps and locks - I am guessing it would apply Restrained (with a high DC to escape, now I need to figure a good number for them).

Conditions summary: Equipless, Blind, Silenced?, Restrained

Efects summary: They can´t move and can´t use attacks or manipulate actions (other than trying to Escape or Force Open the straps), so no material, somatic or focus components. Being blind they have a -4 to perception (no penalization to Escaping?), being silenced, they can´t speak (so no verbal componets).

Taking my group as example, The sorceror don´t recover spells and can´t use spells, but he regains the focus point (refocus is only a concetrate action, and sorcerors don´t even need to do it). The champion can regain the focus point, but can´t use lay on hands. The druid don´t recover spells and can´t use them, but recovers his focus points. The monk have nothing magical.


My players got captured and I am wondering what rules do I have to apply to them.

Let´s say they captors are competent and have knowleadge about their abilities (The party is a Sorcerer, druid, champion and monk). They will take as much measures as possible to avoid any tricks from the players (they wouldn´t let the prisioners to recover their magic or to cast it).

How they do it? I guess the players aren´t allowed to have a full rest, so they don´t recover spells. But cantrips? The casters need to be restrained and gagged so they aren´t able to cast? What happen to focus points, can the champion pray to his god? And the sorceror recovers his focus point?

Seems hard to keep prisoners in this setting (unless you use some magical powers).

Any tips and suggestions are welcome.

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