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I love metamorph type of using aspects like growing fleshbows or boneblades to claws, with its subclasses being like ozoomorph(acutral one) or void creature so more of blue mage type. If was made I rather it have no link to druid, no wildshape as wildshape is druid thing.
yep me too the idea of having a character who can just change his body as he feels like sounds great
its sounds like being a weird mix between a martial and a caster, you use supernatural powers to alter yourself but you fight with your body
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How about something in the vein of an artificer? A weapons/armor equivalent to the Alchemist. Make or modify weapons, armor, shields, and ammo faster, but their experimental nature means that without daily recalibration, they'll become unstable/unusable.
Things like spread-shot crossbows (turn your attack roll into a AoE reflex save), revolver crossbows (reload less often, but more actions to do it), ejectable blades (probably unnecessary, but cool), spring boots, and magnetic shields (to grab/disarm metal weapons).
I think a non-magic utility character could be fun. "I ain't jealous of them wizards; I can do all that without any hocus pocus."
Late feats/down time could result in modified structures and vehicles. Underwater Airship.
so basically an artificer like class and a metamorph like class are the most popular
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One of the very first character I played in 3.5 was a diplomatic character with huge skills and approximately zero combat ability. It sounded nice on paper but ended up exceedingly frustrating.
Based on this experience, I think a skilled character who would shine out of combat and would use Deception in combat to take the opponent off guard would be a great fit. A Rogue, especially a Scoundrel, sounds just fine.
I feel like such a character would really shine in a solo narrative where the GM is more of a storyteller, and down with that style. The encounters that couldn't be talked out of, like a swarm of rats, or a bunch of shambling zombies, could be dealt with by swinging over a chasm to escape the swarm or dropping a metal portcullis to block the way behind you so that the zombies can't pursue. Sort of Indiana Jones-style 'evade the danger, rather than fight it' tactics, which would require that the GM had prepared each encounter with ways to bypass it without like collapsing the mine shaft behind you to stop the ogres from pursuing, or jumping on a shield and sledding down the mountain away from the angry yeti or whatever.
It could be fun, to have an entire session where the 'adventurer' doesn't directly inflict hit point damage. (Although some enemies might come to harm if she triggers a trap she disarmed on the way in on them or something...)
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They have said multiple times, most recently in GenCon panels, that they are not going to port over many of the classes from 1e, and now that the 'core' books are done, they are going to focus on creating new classes and content
I would like to see them introduce psionics as a fifth discipline soon, so that it has time to grow with the system as they progress
I just hope they bring back mesmerists. But I do like psionics.
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How about something in the vein of an artificer? A weapons/armor equivalent to the Alchemist. Make or modify weapons, armor, shields, and ammo faster, but their experimental nature means that without daily recalibration, they'll become unstable/unusable.
Things like spread-shot crossbows (turn your attack roll into a AoE reflex save), revolver crossbows (reload less often, but more actions to do it), ejectable blades (probably unnecessary, but cool), spring boots, and magnetic shields (to grab/disarm metal weapons).
I think a non-magic utility character could be fun. "I ain't jealous of them wizards; I can do all that without any hocus pocus."
Late feats/down time could result in modified structures and vehicles. Underwater Airship.
I definitely agree! As much as I genuinely adore the classic mage-Artificer, I feel like that role could, in PF2, work even better within a true Utility Martial tool-user class of some kind. I put down some ideas a couple of pages back, but I love thinking about this sort of design so I may have rambled slightly here:
What I'd like it not to be is like the Alchemist, because I like the Alchemist and we already have one; this should be a very different kind of utility, more based in quick improvisation and combining different tools to do very silly things that somehow work, rather than handing out or quick-mixing consumables. You'd be doing a lot of temporary bodging-together and you'd be a dab hand with a rope or torch in combat, but I'd imagine that you'd also excel with little preparation. Crafting clothes and armour that provide combat or social bonuses, filling bellies with hearty, enhancing meals, a tower shield with a honking great snare attached to the front...
I guess I'd like somewhere between the Spheres of Power Blacksmith, Scholar and Technician, for those familiar with that system, but with more of a slant on the profession side of things. More artisan or combat engineer than gadgeteer, though very much able to use their tools as gadgets if need be. It's an idea that I think could work really specifically in PF2 as its own class*, while most systems don't have the framework for it, so it'd be a shame to miss the opportunity.
That said, I'd also love a more straightforward Technician-type with the custom crossbows, springboots and all that. The Spheres Technician was one of my absolute favourite things about that system and I'd love that to exist in Pathfinder 2, quite possibly with a wee bit more Numeria and Alkenstar in the mix. All the Numeria-specific options would presumably be Uncommon because Setting Assumptions, but there'd definitely be a class path or archetype to gain access... Oo, perhaps even in a line of classes featuring a Wonder Taster Alchemist, Nanite Barbarian, Scavenger Investigator and Technic Thief Rogue... I'm getting distracted.
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*Also, aesthetically speaking, could you imagine a tool-focused Iconic Artisan in Wayne Reynolds' style?? He'd have a field day! So many edges! So many details! So many hangy things!
However...
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Oh, also, I'd absolutely love a class focused on shape-shifting. Shapeshifting is my number one superpower and I really, really want to play that sort of thing in Pathfinder, especially in a world like Golarion. Whether it be through magic, alchemy, aberrant blood or nanite blood, even botanical im-plants or fleshwarp-gone-wrong... A class that has true mastery of their form in a manner quite divorced from spellcasting or mutagens would be pretty sweet. Like the Shifter, but not actually the Shifter, and not based in Wild Shape necessarily.
Also pls give Zova some love. Let her Iconic look be but one form she can take.
You can sort of do it with the Monk already just by going "Hey, GM, can I give stances the Morph trait?", or even just describing that happening, but that's obviously not quite the same thing.
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I noticed something when I was going through Lost Omens: Legends. For all of the characters, they tell you what their "class" is, and this usually maps to either a class, subclass, or archetype.
There are three exceptions that I noticed: Aristocrat, Politician, and Inventor. Of the three, Inventor caught my eye in light of talks about a smith or gadget based class in this thread.
No conclusions or promises, just wanted to point that out.
That is interesting. I wonder if those would be future archtypes like in the APG
I noticed something when I was going through Lost Omens: Legends. For all of the characters, they tell you what their "class" is, and this usually maps to either a class, subclass, or archetype.
There are three exceptions that I noticed: Aristocrat, Politician, and Inventor. Of the three, Inventor caught my eye in light of talks about a smith or gadget based class in this thread.
No conclusions or promises, just wanted to point that out.
All of those feel kinda like archetypes to me, but I wouldn't exactly say no.
Aristocrat and Politician might not even be that, it might just be a name there.
Really Inventor was the one that looked promising to become something eventually.
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I think what makes an Artificer an interesting idea for a full class is that you can take it in a few different directions. You can have magical empowerment with temporary runes, gadgetry to specialize in tools and traps, or even weapon modification as mentioned above.
It's got legs, I tell ya!
The fine KibblesTasty, developer of the better-than-official 3rd Party Artificer, did much the same with his take on the class. And it works great! (And shows how dull official WotC classes are in comparison)…
The idea of an artificer not only has legs, it's got like a dozen of them and they're powered by steam and barreling towards us at high speeds.
The idea of an artificer not only has legs, it's got like a dozen of them and they're powered by steam and barreling towards us at high speeds.
Just so long as it's Uncommon. Turning Golarion into a steampunk setting should be opt-in.
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The idea of an artificer not only has legs, it's got like a dozen of them and they're powered by steam and barreling towards us at high speeds.Just so long as it's Uncommon. Turning Golarion into a steampunk setting should be opt-in.
I don't think Grankless was specifying Steampunk with that visual buuuut Golarion has plenty of tech scattered throughout, a lot of Clockworks and golems but in Numeria we have Scifi non-stop and in Numeria we have plenty of Clockpunk stuff as well as guns.
Artificer aka magical crafty person is all over the world of Golarion.
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I just hope they bring back mesmerists. But I do like psionics.
The Mesmerist was potentially my favorite of the Occult classes, but it was like the Alchemist, in that it felt like two or three neat class ideas sort of stitched together, and ended up unsatisfying at any of them. I would love a pure Stare-based version (called the Basilisk, natch?), *or* one that focused heavily on Tricks (and could use way more of them, more than one at a time, refresh them at range, etc.). As written though, it felt like it was kind of 'eh' at multiple things.
The fine KibblesTasty, developer of the better-than-official 3rd Party Artificer, did much the same with his take on the class. And it works great! (And shows how dull official WotC classes are in comparison)…
The idea of an artificer not only has legs, it's got like a dozen of them and they're powered by steam and barreling towards us at high speeds.
KibblesTasty's Artificer is basically a PF2 class in 5e.
When you all are talking about artificer.
Are you all talking about something like: Promethean Alchemist, Construct Rider Alchemist, Homunculist Alchemist, Firearm Alchemist, or Construt Wizard?
Potentially all of the above. Moreso than in PF1, classes can fulfill a lot of different concepts. We have the Rogue, for instance, that can be a dirty fighting thug, a criminal mastermind, or a sneaking thief.
There are a lot of ways that the artificer can manifest and pf2 is well suited to have it do any of them.
I made a separate post about this because it was kinda big (dont want to Big Wall of Text the discussion), but I was recently thinking of 'updating' the Occultist and taking inspiration from the World of Warcraft Death Knight to make the Rune Smith. The class could use the current rune subsystem, but fill the niche of the crafting intelligence martial. While lacking spell slots entirely, the Rune Smith would focus on enhancing his weapons and armor in combat, either with static buffs, or by unleashing power stored in active runes. After combat, the Rune Smith could draw power back into Runes by refocusing. I think it could fill a niche and be an awesome unique class to 2e.
The idea of an artificer not only has legs, it's got like a dozen of them and they're powered by steam and barreling towards us at high speeds.Just so long as it's Uncommon. Turning Golarion into a steampunk setting should be opt-in.I don't think Grankless was specifying Steampunk with that visual buuuut Golarion has plenty of tech scattered throughout, a lot of Clockworks and golems but in Numeria we have Scifi non-stop and in Numeria we have plenty of Clockpunk stuff as well as guns.
Artificer aka magical crafty person is all over the world of Golarion.
And Numeria is awesome, but laser guns pretty much stay in Numeria, and that is a good thing. Even black powder weapons are handled carefully, which is also good. Golems aren't really 'tech', they're magical as all get-out and based on mythology.
Magical crafty person, sure, go nuts, but a steam-powered spider machine is pretty much the definition of steampunk. I suspect we don't actually disagree on the fundamental point here.
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When you all are talking about artificer.
Are you all talking about something like: Promethean Alchemist, Construct Rider Alchemist, Homunculist Alchemist, Firearm Alchemist, or Construt Wizard?
Quite possibly, though I'm honestly not quite sure the Alchemist chassis can support the concepts as is, so a new class might be warranted.
Huh. I just realized that if we have a golem crafter class, they might include a Paper Golem. Which means I'd be able to use the avatar I chose way back in 2006 in an actual game...
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PF1 Has Origami Swarm wonderous item. Alchemist, specially Promethean Alchemist was the best at making constructs. So he could easily make a bunch of them for cheap.
Maybe the item can return.
Also there is the Ofuda 3pp creature type, which might be fun to have back.
Or...I could hope to get back the Paper Golem that was featured in Dragon magazine and my chosen Avatar is a clip of the art of.
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I had a idea for a dancer class or archetype. It lets you gain a benefit until the start of your next turn or lets you attack, when you move from stance to stance.
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It looks like they're going to stick with Cha is the primary stat for all spontaneous classes. Which...ug, but I think they'll continue in that fashion.
Also, there's no Con classes at all, so hopefully that will be coming at some point. Kinetecists are the obvious choice, but perhaps other classes that are pure focus/cantrip classes would also be appropriate.
It looks like they're going to stick with Cha is the primary stat for all spontaneous classes. Which...ug, but I think they'll continue in that fashion.
Also, there's no Con classes at all, so hopefully that will be coming at some point. Kinetecists are the obvious choice, but perhaps other classes that are pure focus/cantrip classes would also be appropriate.
I think the cha/spontaneous connection is by chance of all the classes having Cha work thematically for them rather than intentional design choice. I could see a wis-spontaneous Shaman or something at some point.
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I would love any class that manages to do rune magic properly, without just being an alchemist with different item types, or just using reflavoured spellcasting(though a little of that wouldn't go awry). It's such an evocative idea in my head, but it's rarely been made to work. Of the innumerable problems any idea faces, it is chiefly made difficult by the fact that runes are a system not balanced for use as a class feature, unlike alchemical items, although this could be sidestepped with abilities similar to a clerics emblazon feats. Also, once they've placed the runes on an object, they then don't have much to do in combat; the idea is really just good for a prebuffing thing. I know that it could be done with an archetype like the talisman dabbler, but I don't want to feel like a dabbler: I want to be able to play someone who dedicated their life to mystic calligraphy. I don't know if paizo is able to pull it off, but it would be great if they could. Edit: for reference, I have tried and failed to do so repeatedly. Good luck to anyone else who gives it a go.
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It looks like they're going to stick with Cha is the primary stat for all spontaneous classes. Which...ug, but I think they'll continue in that fashion.
Also, there's no Con classes at all, so hopefully that will be coming at some point. Kinetecists are the obvious choice, but perhaps other classes that are pure focus/cantrip classes would also be appropriate.
CON would work for the summoner, if there is a will to go that direction. You manifest your eidolon by sharing your life force with it.
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Also, there's no Con classes at all, so hopefully that will be coming at some point. Kinetecists are the obvious choice, but perhaps other classes that are pure focus/cantrip classes would also be appropriate.CON would work for the summoner, if there is a will to go that direction. You manifest your eidolon by sharing your life force with it.
That would be a neat direction to take it.
Typically the summons have been flavored as otherworldly forces to be entreated and bound into service, and a Cha base makes sense for that.
But if the summons are instead seen as being actually willed into existence and split off from the summoner's own life-energy, then a Con chassis totally fits, as the summoner would be depleting themself to draw forth 'monsters of the id' to work their will.
Multiple 'core stat' options for most or all classes would be my preference. A Cleric for instance could be an Evangelist or a Theologian, and use Charisma or Intelligence, as their 'main stat,' for example.
A Witch could follow the path of the Bell (Cha), Book (Int) or Candle (Wis), and use the chosen stat to determine bonus spells, set spellcasting and hex DCs or whatever, but otherwise have the same mechanics.
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The idea of an artificer not only has legs, it's got like a dozen of them and they're powered by steam and barreling towards us at high speeds.Just so long as it's Uncommon. Turning Golarion into a steampunk setting should be opt-in.I don't think Grankless was specifying Steampunk with that visual buuuut Golarion has plenty of tech scattered throughout, a lot of Clockworks and golems but in Numeria we have Scifi non-stop and in Numeria we have plenty of Clockpunk stuff as well as guns.
Artificer aka magical crafty person is all over the world of Golarion.
And Numeria is awesome, but laser guns pretty much stay in Numeria, and that is a good thing. Even black powder weapons are handled carefully, which is also good. Golems aren't really 'tech', they're magical as all get-out and based on mythology.
Magical crafty person, sure, go nuts, but a steam-powered spider machine is pretty much the definition of steampunk. I suspect we don't actually disagree on the fundamental point here.
You mean like this.
Or like this?
I'd like to see a Bard that was a Bard and not an Occultist. A bit fighter, a bit rogue, with a few songs, but very little spells.
This sounds exactly like the Marshall archetype. Slap it on a warrior and you have a drill sergeant, slap it on a rogue and you have a dude the bolsters their friends with witty reparte.I'd like to see a Bard that was a Bard and not an Occultist. A bit fighter, a bit rogue, with a few songs, but very little spells.
No
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I'd like to see a Bard that was a Bard and not an Occultist. A bit fighter, a bit rogue, with a few songs, but very little spells.
I'd quite like a return to before the bard was a confusing anomaly of tropes and magic rock and roll, and when instead it was more like a travelling historian/loremaster with bits of druidic spells who just happened to record and distribute their knowledge in the form of songs. I don't know how well that aligns with your ideas, but the bard has always felt like a mistake to me until I finally found out what was going on when it was originally introduced. I know that designers have tried hard not to play into it mechanically in various ways, but it's never really worked for me.
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I'd quite like a return to before the bard was a confusing anomaly of tropes and magic rock and roll, and when instead it was more like a travelling historian/loremaster with bits of druidic spells who just happened to record and distribute their knowledge in the form of songs. I don't know how well that aligns with your ideas, but the bard has always felt like a mistake to me until I finally found out what was going on when it was originally introduced. I know that designers have tried hard not to play into it mechanically in various ways, but it's never really worked for me.I'd like to see a Bard that was a Bard and not an Occultist. A bit fighter, a bit rogue, with a few songs, but very little spells.
I think that if the Skald wrere to return, I'd want it to resemble that. Lighter on the magic and what not. I do think the current bard fills a good folklore niche, but divorcing the magic and music somewhat and focusing on stories could be interesting.
I sometimes imagine a 5th tradition, based around stories, tropes, hero calling, and music, keying off Society as the knowledge skill. Both the Bard and Medium would be firmly parked on this tradition.
What can I say? Not only was I a literature major, I read both Mercedes Lackey's 500 kingdoms series AND Pratchett's description of story magic at an impressionable age.
This sounds exactly like the Marshall archetype. Slap it on a warrior and you have a drill sergeant, slap it on a rogue and you have a dude the bolsters their friends with witty reparte.I'd like to see a Bard that was a Bard and not an Occultist. A bit fighter, a bit rogue, with a few songs, but very little spells.
Not really the point. I do know what a marshall is, its not a bard. A marshall is a war leader and while some of that may be appropriate thats a war leader and no closer to it than the caster the current bard is. I don't want to fake the flavour of it, but to have some mechanics to support it.
If I had to glue it together from existing classes it would be a rogue but with out sneak attack, combined with some of the current bards cantrips, plus maybe a few aura powers like the marshal or cavalier. But the central part would be the musical ability and skills - those would increase. But mechanically that wouldn't work well enough to be viable - its just a bunch of mediocre powers.
More music, more skills, more knowledge, less occult magic. When did a bard become a full on mentalist or illusionist?
Bards were very different in the past.
None of this is to say that the current Bard is not a good idea. Its a full caster with some unique abilities. Its just taken one slice of the original Bard concept and made a new class about that. But there is a second class to be had here.
I kind of want something like Archer (red and gold) from Fate/, the ability to just pull a sword out of a hat, stab a guy with it, and make it go poof. I don't know if that would be a Magus thing (considering the Mindblade magus archetype from Occult adventures) or this theoretical Artificer-esc class y'all are talking about, either would make sense, and I'd be for it either way.
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I kind of want something like Archer (red and gold) from Fate/, the ability to just pull a sword out of a hat, stab a guy with it, and make it go poof. I don't know if that would be a Magus thing (considering the Mindblade magus archetype from Occult adventures) or this theoretical Artificer-esc class y'all are talking about, either would make sense, and I'd be for it either way.
The Playtest Magus right now has this with their Spirit Sheath feat, gives them a free extradimensional sheath they can stash their weapon in.
I kind of want something like Archer (red and gold) from Fate/, the ability to just pull a sword out of a hat, stab a guy with it, and make it go poof. I don't know if that would be a Magus thing (considering the Mindblade magus archetype from Occult adventures) or this theoretical Artificer-esc class y'all are talking about, either would make sense, and I'd be for it either way.
i would say those 2 archer class servants are more like magic artillery than a magus they literally summon a storm fo swords that shoot themselves into the enemy until he dies and that very unique sword is like a orbital cannon
the arcane/primal spell Weapon Storm might simulate it since its "duplicates" of a sword
speaking of the fate series i would really like to see a reality marble on pathfinder although i doubt paizo would allow it
for those who don't know about it essentially its like you create a temporary demiplane and drag both you and your enemy there
you know spells like Maze of Locked Doors, Maze, Astral Labyrinth, Magnificent Mansion etc...
its basically like that but both you and the enemy go there and you have some control over the place like moving objects such as sword planted on the ground with your will and throwing at the enemy
if you still confused open google images and type [unlimited blade works] without the []
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Oh, to have a Soaring Blade Armorist from Spheres in 2E. (A class and archetype specifically based on Gil and Archer.)