They are to indicate rarity. Black is for Common, Red means Uncommon, while Orange is Rare. Blue is reserved for Unique items.
I personally disagree with this choice. Frankly, while I love most of the playtest so far, I really don't think a game company in this day and age should be making mistakes like not accounting for visual impairments (especially with the action icons that are as far as I'm aware completely unreadable to software).
Still, I'm very sleep-deprived right now and thus a little grumpy. I'm sure Paizo is going to deal with the issue well before the actual CRB.
It was established in the Multiclassing thread that the actual healing mostly came from sources outside of the Cleric class, with that mostly being a backup. The Cleric thing was not the main thing enabling the character to heal.
Actually hadn't crossed my mind! I was very much more thinking in terms of, say, the Spooks series, with some more classic vampire or werewolf hunters and probably a little bit of RDJ's Sherlock Holmes.
Batman actually kinda wouldn't fit exactly. He's a superb combatant due to his physical prowess and martial dedication, augmented by his intellect. This class I'd envision as much more of a just-capable physical combatant with a heck of a lot of tricks and techniques that really define the playstyle whether for combat or utility.
If we're talking new design space, I'd love to see a "monster slayer" kind of class. A technical martial full of specialised tricks for their prey, and the ability to improvise ways around monstrous defenses on the fly... With a high enough Lore check, of course (which they would get bonuses to). Think like Joseph Delaney's Spooks.
Mechanically, I'd imagine that they'd be decent at alchemy and trapping, but far more focused than the Alchemist or Ranger. They'd be able to undermine resistances and better exploit vulnerabilities; they'd always have just enough silver, salt and cold iron on hand, and would be able to apply such things to their arsenal of "tools" at a moment's notice. They'd also have to be able to share their knowledge, directing their party to better combat specific threats, which could be enhanced with feats and the like.
These would be the specialists you'd hire to oust a coven of bags, slay a dragon, or capture a rampaging ogre. They're not Rangers; they don't care much for the wild, and take a much more technical approach to their hunt, utilising every tool at their disposal and fighting always by the skin of their teeth, eternally outmatched in body but unparalleled in mind.
Also I think it would be fun to have a Martial that would prioritise Intelligence over Strength or Dexterity.
There is no Core 4 in Pathfinder. There is a Core 4 in D&D, which Paizo owes nothing to.
The idea of the core four is present in many different media. It's not specific to D&D; it's not even specific to the tabletop.
It's a concept that is also present for a reason, as they together create a very simple balanced party that can cover most every important role.
It also allows Paizo to playtest several key areas of gameplay as they pertain specifically to archetypes. Martial Combat, Caster Combat, Skills and Healing. It helps that the Divine and Arcane spell lists together likely run the gamut of general spell interactions.
I'm addition, everyone is very familiar with those four classes in one form or another. Like it or not, they are the classic party and most people know how they generally interact in an rpg-like setting.
I'm not saying it's the best possible set of four they could have gone with, but it certainly is one of the best in my opinion.
I'm extremely intrigued by this new system, and I can't wait to try it! I think I vastly prefer it to the old method; it really opens up some options.
I would also like to point out to a few people in this thread that there's no such thing as a character level/class level distinction in this system. It's just character level, and you have a class. You can't multiclass in the old way because that's not how the basic assumptions of this system work.
At first character level you choose your class, and at regular levels you can get skill, general or class feats. You can also replace class feats with archetype feats if you have the prerequisite dedications. You're never "Fighter X/Wizard Y", you're a Level X Fighter with Y Wizard Archetype Feats.
Going back to the old way would require the basic character framework of PF2 to be completely overhauled and I don't think that's worth the sacrifice.
If I have any issue with the system, it's probably that you need to advance an Archetype before you can choose another. I don't think that's entirely necessary and it does restrict character choices in ways I'm not a particular fan of. If you want to have a young Pirate Rogue who's barely even mastered his sea legs but has picked up some cantrips from the crew's Wizard, that should be fine.
As someone who's about to GM for the first time ever with Doomsday Dawn, this is exciting stuff!
In fact, most of my group is new to tabletop roleplaying, and (except me) those that aren't are still rather unfamiliar with Pathfinder itself, so we should have some interesting data as to how the system works if you're not so familiar with it (one of the potential pitfalls that PF1 had).
Milo v3 wrote:
Eh, I'm less interested in this than the 1e Bard and Bard was one of my least liked classes in Fantasy RPGs to begin with. Do we know if we can have a bard with no musical abilities at all yet?
Mark essentially confirmed this earlier in the thread. They'll still perform somehow, but it could be speeches or acting or capoeira for all the rules care. There's actually nothing in the class that we've seen that requires you to be musical; optionally you can use a musical instrument instead of verbal and somatic components, but you could just as well have those components be particularly animated orating rather than mystic incantations.
I really, really love this. The Pathfinder Bard has always been one of my favourite classes in any system, and this takes all the same heart and whimsy and adds a whole bunch of pizzazz.
I was a little perturbed when I saw the tenth-level spells thing because... well... I was scared that you'd go the 5e route of power over performance. I should never have doubted you guys. This Bard is an artist and spellsinger over anything else, and that's just about perfect.
This is one of my absolute favourite additions to this new system.
P.S. Really appreciate the way you're not tying it just to more traditional modes of performance! Lots of room for a battle-dancer or storyteller. Anyone with art in their soul and soul in their 'art should be able to be a Bard.
I love pretty much everything about this system, but I really, Really do not like consumables using Resonance. I'll wait until we playtest it to make final judgement, but it doesn't feel functional in-setting, it makes Resonance into a resource-tracking game that every character has to account for and frankly it seems like a very forced way of dealing with the whole overuse of healing items thing. You've done so well in making Pathfinder into a less management-intensive system; please don't backtrack on that now.
Resonance as a whole is a little iffy for me... the Occultist is one of my absolute favourite classes in PF1, but I don't want every class to be an Occultist. Still, I can see why it could work and it helps with the whole item-slots scenario so I feel pretty okay about it in general.
I do, however, love the weapon and armour stuff up there. Not such a fan of the whole "all weapon magic is runes" thing, but that is flavour that can easily be removed or modified. I like runic weapons, but that should be one flavour option of many.
Kohl McClash wrote:
PF was just an extension of 3.5 so no real work was done but even then the play test helped refine it.
I sincerely object to the indication that Paizo did no real work in creating Pathfinder from 3.5. There has been so much love and effort put into this game. A rather excellent set of rules adapted from the D20 system, a fun and imaginative world, a brilliant cast of characters, subsystems for almost any type of game you could want to play, an international multiplayer campaign system... Whether you like the game or not is down to personal preference and it's obviously not flawless, but the effort is undeniable.
As to the rest of your post, they're doing this playtest because they care about the community's opinions, and they care about making the best game possible for as many people as possible. I have no doubt that the development team could produce a great game on their own, but they care too much about their craft and their players to settle for that.
Remember, they don't even need to make a new game. PF1 was still doing well last time I checked.
Diego Rossi wrote:
I understand and agree with you; all I'm saying is that all opinions are valid and no-one should be told not to bring them up. Debate the points, don't deny their validity, is all I'm saying.
I think we should bear in mind that all of these abilities are in relation to the narrative. Narrative demands that any legendary hero who spends their life of adventure leaping from tree to towering tree, stabbing Ancient Green Dragons in the neck from fifty stories up should be able to survive any given fall from said dragon through guile and skill.
It's not supposed to simulate an arbitrarily high fall over a featureless flat plane any more than Evasion is supposed to simulate being able to entirely evade six point-blank flamethrowers from every cubic direction while trapped in a five-foot-across room... Even though the rules support both scenarios, neither is an expected part of any adventure.
It's not a physics problem, it's a dynamic storytelling game. Even from a simulationist point of view, it's meant to simulate scenarios that will actually come up.
Casters may have magic, but everyone should have the power to influence the narrative.
For one, none of the people that can survive those falls do it because they're martial classes. They do it because they're PCs with enough hit points.
Just wanted to point out that these skill abilities are also nothing to do with being a martial class. Sure, certain martials will be better at skills, but there's not really anything to say that a Fighter is going to have a better Diplomacy bonus than a Wizard, for example.
As to the thing about Pathfinder Tales, I wouldn't exactly consider that more setting-accurate than the game which has almost entirely defined the setting.
In PF2, you don't need to take the Legendary proficiency if you feel that its abilities are too out of the ordinary for your character. It's been heavily implied that that won't lessen the power of your character, and other than the Legendary Skill Feats, the +1 isn't really going to affect you too much if you invest your options in other thematically appropriate abilities.
You can easily play your character just by not upgrading to Legendary; it's not compulsory to take your proficiency that far.
In addition, I feel like the Legendary feats are putting the narrative control in the hands of the player-gm team storytelling-wise. Yes, mechanically, you don't take fall damage, but it's up to you whether you flavour that as some magically advanced superpower, Irori-style hard work and training, skill and preparation alone, incredible luck or any combination of these things. And if none of those fit... you can always, as above, not go Legendary at all.
While I disagree with BPorter on most of the things said in this thread, I'm with them here. This is absolutely not the place to be telling each other not to notify the developers when we have an issue.
I happen to have liked most everything in this playtest, and so have many others, but that doesn't mean that those with problems should be shushed down.
I completely understand the urge to protect what many feel is a good addition to the game, but the developers are good enough at their jobs to get a feel for the community's opinion, so long as everyone in that community feels comfortable actually sharing what they think about the new system.
The best way in my opinion would be to have Legendary included by default but easy to detach if need be. Going by what Mark said, that seems to be what they're trying to do with this. As I said before... I really want to be able to play Beowulf, but I'd also really like for other people to be able to play Conan if they want to as well.
This could be a system that works for a bunch of different playstyles, which would be a nice continuation of Pathfinder 1's versatility with hopefully a little more core-support.
Personally, I've loved almost everything coming out of this playtest, but this might be my very favourite thing. I love how we're focusing on versatility without necessarily having to sacrifice power (though you can shift the balance on that too which is great).
As to the whole mere mortals discussion... I've always seen Golarion as a world and Pathfinder as a game system where hard work and dedication can pull of truly fantastic feats of power and skill. Right from first level, Barbarians could become ridiculously strong at will through sheer anger far beyond anything adrenaline could justify for that length of time. At the more incredible end of the spectrum, the setting has at least one god who attained true divinity through sheer physical and mental training, conditioning and force of will.
I understand that many people don't want to play in that world, but with this system you don't have to. You just don't play to the levels where that becomes an issue, or remove it from your game. I personally love how we're getting a system where extraordinary means just that.
I want to be able to play heroes who have the swordsmanship of Inigo Montoya or the master-plans of Havelock Vetinari, who can wrestle like Beowulf, think like Sherlock Holmes, shoot like Roland Deschain... In a fantasy setting like this one, humans and their ilk are not necessarily bound by the same laws and restrictions as they are here.
And if you don't want to play that... this system also allows you not to. I respect your opinion as well, and I only ask that you respect mine.
That's exactly my point! A druid would still be more restricted by that bronze armour than they would by that steel longsword, as far as the rules are concerned, so it cannot be a restriction by technological advancement. That's why I chose such an unfair comparison in the first place.
(Also weapons do not always predate armour. Weapons are just as much invented to deal with armour as armour is invented to deal with weapons; it's an endless cycle that only ends when we create either a weapon that can destroy any armour or an armour which can withstand any weapon.)
Oh, as an addendum to my above point, "technologically advanced" is a very weird term that doesn't really mean anything specific. Damascus steel is made of incredibly advanced materials we only just learned about, but we've been making it for centuries, while we had the basic concepts and materials needed for a handgun long before someone worked out how to build one. Which is more advanced, the one that contains carbon nanotubes or the one which makes lead go really fast?
That was a very rambly tangent, I apologise.
Having grown up with Bionicle which merged the two through a intriguing and mysterious mythos, I am very much a fan of this trope in general.
However, I would say that I much prefer when the connection is an explored and inherent part of the world, rather than one inserted into the other. I prefer sci-fi to build on fantasy as fantasy builds on sci-fi far more than the idea of giving Conan a chainsaw, or more relevantly giving a cleric a laser-sword and calling him Obi-Wan (and no, midichlorians DO NOT help; the world is pure fantasy and that's not inherently a problem that needs fixing).
Still, lasers on Golarion is very fun, and Brigh seems to have fun with it; I'd just like to see a RP system where biomechanical mages mess around with the fundamental balance of nature as a matter of course.
( Weapons require far less technology to produce which is why a druid tolerates a metal sword)
This is unfortunately untrue. Yes, a mace may be distinctly easier to make than full-plate armour, but a finely crafted crucible steel longsword requires a far higher level of technology to produce than a bronze breastplate. It depends entirely on the weapon or armour in question, due to the fundamental property of warfare that weapons and armour always compete to be the most advanced: armour also tends not to win that conflict.
So it may be some other factor that stops a Druid from being able to wear metal armour. My guess would be that having that much modern tech close to one's heart or core is bad for the nature magic, while having the technology wielded as far away as a hand is not such a problem.
Okay! As to the new knight question, I had intended my character to be a new knight along with the others, but not a young one.
The idea behind Ser Kalle the Besieged is that he's a long-time fighter for competition and profit, who's decided to atone for his wasted youth by protecting the home that took him in. He's older, in his late thirties (age penalties/bonuses have been noted), and while he went through the same path of proving himself as the others, as well as having been a squire, he is still noticeably further along in age. There is small worry that he is past his prime, but he is relentlessly willing to prove himself.
If that's not permitted, I can shift around his backstory a little to fit.
Edit! For flavour, here he is advancing into an Oberhau (lit. "Upper Strike"): [url]https://www.heroforge.com/load_config%3D1421385/[/url]
Stats: 4d6 ⇒ (6, 6, 6, 1) = 19
Okay! I can very much work with this. I'm very interested in this campaign, although I'll have to see how life goes as I go back to Uni (hence why I've been absent from these forums for a fair few months).
I think I'm going to be attempting a take on a smart, versatile fighter in the vein of our own real-life Liechtenauer and Armoured Longsword dueling traditions, focusing on powerful two-handed blows, tricksy pommel-strikes and defensive, opportunistic combat. The only class that really suits this is the Zweihander Sentinel archetype for the Warder. I will also be taking the Thrashing Dragon discipline either through trait or Martial Tradition, since this class allows for TWF with sword and pommel.
On that thought actually, what is your take on the [url]http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/martial-traditions/]Martial Traditions[/url], specifically the Crashing Tempest Academy? Could they be integrated into the world somehow? I'm happy to take the trait instead if need be, though I have to say that the Crashing Tempest Academy really really fits the character in terms of its professional approach to combat.
I'm also thinking of taking VMC Cavalier, specifically Order of the Seal with Camelot itself as the defended location. I'll have to see how the feats work out though since I'm going TWF.
One final question: what sort of time period are we looking at? My character is very firmly Late Medieval/Early Renaissance in style (full plate and big swords), which is how the Arthurian Legends are often depicted. However, the legends themselves would have taken place long before that, before full-plate was even possible. Will that be a problem here? I'm assuming not since this isn't actually Great Britain and our real-life periods may not apply, but I felt I should check.
The campaign seems awesome and it's clear that you put a lot of work into it. I'll be checking up on the NPCs quicksharp.
Dreadfully sorry all. I was away down south and I thought I would have consistent enough internet but I very much did not and with life stuff going on I wasn't able to post.
I'll get back in quicksharp, though I have to say that everything's much more hectic right now than I thought it would be when I signed up for this, so I might not be entirely consistent here. Feel free to bot me in whenever you need.
I do understand character issues; I'm still wondering how to fit Kiana in and honestly this summer has been a lot more hectic than I'd planned for with his commitment.
But please, Tempest, stick with us! It's going to be great, and your character could really grow into this world!
I can't wait to see this Dune Worm though. That sounds fun. :D
"If your stools were tall enough, I wouldn't have to, mate. Thanking you for the drink though."
Kiana, sipping her drink, listens through the assignment, following silently after Herman as he leaves. Something seems to be occupying her mind... not that she can work out what it is.
As the altercation begins, she jumps into the shadows of a nearby building, waiting to see if anything escalates.
Stealth Check: 1d20 + 18 ⇒ (13) + 18 = 31
Ah, I hope it's not been too bad for you! Don't overwork yourself too much! We appreciate all the effort you put into these campaigns.
On that note, I'm going to be on holiday next week (starting the 3rd), which I didn't know about when I first applied to this campaign so, while I will definitely still have some internet access, I might not be able to post 100% as regularly as I had hoped. However, shouldn't be too much of a problem since I'll be really active other than that.
Kiana likes to work as a team, so she'd be open to having been connected with one of y'all beforehand.
Especially funny would be pairing with Xocualtuatl in her case, since she's so dedicated to stopping evil. However, Mylon, your story also really fits with her, since she'd not be opposed to getting some cover fire from someone telling her story, which fits since she does have a bit of a reputation as well as some Crashing Tempest prestige.
Joseph Bonkers wrote:
Good luck Nina~Nitro! I was looking forward to seeing your Kaval in action but it was not meant to be...
Good luck to you too! I confess I was hoping to be in with you and your awesome arm as well, but alas 'twas not to be... Nonetheless, I wish you a fun time, all of you!
And this is not to say that I do not love my current team; I am very much looking forward to this dynamic. I especially wonder how many lead sheets our resident reptilian rapscallion will go through with a Detect Evil SLA on the party. :D
I really shouldn't. I've just got into a campaign, a really fun-looking one. I'm still basically new. I shouldn't overdo it.
3d6 + 6 ⇒ (4, 2, 6) + 6 = 18 16
Nothing too divine, but it's definitely higher than a 25 pb, so I'll take it with thanks! It's low enough (at least compared to the others here) that I get to be a little tricksy without feeling guilty, so that's fun.
I'd like to have a character focused on Pankration, the Ancient Greek martial art. That would be most easily accomplished with Spheres of Might and/or Path of War, but it's definitely possible in regular Pathfinder too. Someone who's smart and strong enough to topple a giant. Champion path, of course, and a worshipper of Athena.
I'm thinking... Half-Giant, if that's alright? Think more Fezzik than Hagrid though.
Storyteller Shadow wrote:
Aha, fantastic! Thanking you kindly, Storyteller Shadow! Congratulations to everyone else who got in and I'm really looking forward to these character interactions.
Good luck to the Magnificent Seven too, I'll definitely be reading along...
Gobo Horde wrote:
I forgot about melee attack rolls, partially because Dex-to-Attack makes more sense and partially because I've never seen a Dex-based melee character without Weapon Finesse. Well caught!
Fury of the Tempest wrote:
Gunpowder Brawler, on this page!
Gobo Horde wrote:
That said, the developers generally fear Dex-to-Damage based on the reasoning that it inviladates another stat altogether. A pure Str character still needs Dex for AC, Ref saves, Initiative, and a host of skills. But what does a pure Dex character need Str for? CM, Carrying Capacity, Climb and Swim. If a pure Dex character forgoes Combat Maneuvers (or takes Agile Maneuvers) and gets a Handy Haversack then Str becomes an even more useless stat than Cha.
Hilariously enough, as I recently found out, Kvals (as well as any tiny creatures) use Dex for literally every strength-based attribute other than Carrying Capacity and Damage Rolls. Kiana could be significantly more powerful if she didn't have that 15 in Str, even with the smaller guns. Luckily firearm builds aren't that intensive Ability-Scores-wise so I could splurge a little. Even if I now have a negative in Con, the ultimate 3.X no-no.
Fury of the Tempest wrote:
Sphere's of Might has had a significant overhaul this week. The 'Dedication' feature has been flat-out removed. Please ensure you are aware of the changes this might have with your chararcter
Noted and read, thanks! Kiana would have been great as that new gunslinging Striker archetype, but ach well. Mostly the removal of Dedication is beneficial though!
Aha! Almost done! :) Kiana's not far off finished, just need to sort out her equipment and write the background and personality I've thought up; all the mechanical stuff is ready. Sorry all, it's been a heck of a weekend. Here I am!!! Also, Gobo? Well done, that submissions thing is terrifically convenient.
@submission: Change Shape (Su) A reptoid can assume the appearance of a specific single Medium humanoid. The reptoid always takes this specific form when it uses this ability. The reptoid gains a +10 racial bonus on Disguise checks to appear as that type of humanoid. This ability otherwise functions as alter self, except the reptoid does not adjust its ability scores. A reptoid can select a new humanoid form by spending 1 week preparing itself for the change, but can then no longer assume its previous humanoid form.
I'd say to still make sure to invest heavily in that Disguise skill, even with the +10. The gang may not spot the disguise right away due to not knowing whomever your Reptoid replaced... but it's also a team of primarily Wisdom-based ranged attackers so Perception is going to be a very good skill.
Probably Wastelands for Kiana.
Wait... did I just turn down Iron Gods? My favourite thing in Pathfinder? Gah. Kiana, I had a chance to make a techy gunslinger and YOUR COOL CONCEPT RUINED THAT FOR ME.
Aahaha, sorry friend! Not really though, I wanna go see some Wastelands!
Mind you, I'm sure she wouldn't mind being in Iron Gods either.
If you ever bleeding well FINISH me...
Gobo Horde wrote:
Unfortunately, the fact that bullets do Bludgeoning damage as well rather puts a hole in this idea... and in quilted cloth. I considered the same for my character, but I can't convince myself that it's legal.
Mind you, if Storyteller Shadow allows it, go ahead! I know I'll be following along, and it's hardly game-breaking.
Reverend Rob wrote:
Also, guys that control SoM better than me, is there any talent that helps improving touch AC?
I'm most familiar with the Athletics talents, so here are a few that could help:
Moving Target (motion) - Not an AC thing, but a miss chance all the same, so long as you can reload as a Free Action (which you can with your Tradition) and get a chance to move.
Reactive Motion - Dodge AC and Reflex, but you need to predict an attack and expend your Move Action. Perhaps not good if you're going for Sniping, since you'
Tumbling Recovery (run) - Drops you prone (making you harder to hit at range) at any time without expending an Action, AND gives you an AC/Reflex bonus against one attack. Pretty ideal since you can still fire from prone and the talent gives an option to stand up quickly anyway. Needs you to take the Run package, but that's a good choice anyway. Also good for re-positioning if you don't need to keep your Immediate Action.
All of these are good, but I think the best for you is Tumbling Recovery.
Sorry I've not been the most active lately; it's been hectic. Kiana will be complete by the deadline, but I am sorry for leaving it so late.
Fury of the Tempest wrote:
Hopefully! I got it with the Gun Training talent, I think. It's not strictly necessary for the theme, but it helps make her viable given her low-ish to-hit.
Mylon Sivalra wrote:
I could take on the role of party healer, although I won't be much good at it without a Cure Light Wounds wand. Would everyone be willing to chip in for one? It would be about 64 gp from each of us.
Kiana is going to be seriously strapped for cash, but I'll see what I can do.