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Now that Pathfinder 1st Edition is over and everything has been published- what in your opinions is the best Adventure Path (and why)?
Or, if you were starting to run or play one right now, which would you want to run/play in?
Spoiler free please and thank you.
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Reign of Winter.
The set up and theme for each adventure. It’s what got me into Pathfinder.
It's a pretty subjective topic, but gosh darnit Rysky is 100% right.
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While Rysky is absolutely correct, I'll give some honorable mentions to Kingmaker and Iron God's as two that run with interesting concepts and execute on them fairly well.
Kingmaker and Iron Gods showed just how robust the d20 system is and how innovative Pathfinder could be.
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Kingmaker. Hands down. The story was loose enough to add your own flavor to fit your group all the while keeping the encounters.
I never got a chance to play in or run Ironfang Invasion, but from what I read, it's my second favorite. Damn fun read, enjoyable looking encounters, resistance story line, what's not to love?
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The one I had the most fun with was Hell's Rebels, though that was in part a function of the players the characters they chose to play.
The best written I think might be Ironfang Invasion.
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Generally things which are in the solicitation to purchase the product (such as the title) are not considered spoilers.
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Yeah, not worried about the literal title of the book- that one has also been very well publicized and that bit spoiled to death.
I think I'm starting with Reign of Winter, but I do still love hearing more opinions and your favorites!
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Strange Aeons is super rad, but it has a higher degree of difficulty to run well than some other ones. The whole "fugue state" mechanic (again, in the player's guide, so not a spoiler) might not work for every group and the difficulty spikes in book 1 are a bit extreme.
For the right group, if you put in the work as the GM, it's great.
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Yeah, not worried about the literal title of the book- that one has also been very well publicized and that bit spoiled to death.
I think I'm starting with Reign of Winter, but I do still love hearing more opinions and your favorites!
Keep in mind that Reign of Winter is very lethal in the first book (honestly, throughout) so keep that in mind. Also it's very dark, even delving into bad things happening to children.
Don't get me wrong, it's my favorite AP. But definitely read through the whole thing before you decide to run it.
My votes are always for Curse of the Crimson Throne and War for the Crown. CotCT has my absolute favorite arc to the story, a really fleshed out city, and great twists and turns. The atmosphere of desperate heroism is so good.
War for the Crown has the deepest cast of characters, with the most interesting interlacing motivations, biases, and more. And you're motivated to dig into those characters in a way that no other AP I've seen manages. Playing it, we're constantly speculating on NPC allegiances and motives and secrets - its just on a higher level of engagement than other APs.
I've played or GM'd Rise of the Runelords, Giantslayer, Iron Gods, Hell's Rebels, and Kingmaker. None of those comes close to the high points of excitement and fun that Curse or WftC have.
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Still only in book two of War for the Crown, and it may partly be a ref quality thing but... damn it’s good. It’s not like any other AP I’ve played - they all have their own flavour, but this one feels like it’s a different game, moe immersive and more complex.
I don’t know if it keeps it up for the next four books. I hope it does.
I really like Kingmaker except for the mass combat stuff and the actual kingdom building mechanics. But I really loved the exploration, many monsters I like fighting, and the First World stuff later.
I liked Carrion Crown in volumes 1-5, but vol. 6 was lacking and the final boss was very forgettable.
Had a lot of fun in Skull and Shackles. Really enjoyed playing my catfolk swashbuckler as my second and final character.
Had a lot of fun in Mummy's Mask. Got to play my favorite character in this one.
I am really interested in playing Giantslayer, Iron Fang Invasion, Iron Gods, Reign of Winter, and Ruins of Azlant.
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My votes are always for Curse of the Crimson Throne and War for the Crown. CotCT has my absolute favorite arc to the story, a really fleshed out city, and great twists and turns. The atmosphere of desperate heroism is so good.
War for the Crown has the deepest cast of characters, with the most interesting interlacing motivations, biases, and more. And you're motivated to dig into those characters in a way that no other AP I've seen manages. Playing it, we're constantly speculating on NPC allegiances and motives and secrets - its just on a higher level of engagement than other APs.
I've played or GM'd Rise of the Runelords, Giantslayer, Iron Gods, Hell's Rebels, and Kingmaker. None of those comes close to the high points of excitement and fun that Curse or WftC have.
If you're into politics and intrigue, War for the Crown is great. Other groups will find it frustrating.
Curse of the Crimson Throne needs a lot of help, but is still a really solid AP.
I'm kind of surprised you didn't like Hell's Rebels more, but I admit as written there's less politics and intrigue than standard adventure stuff.
Still, I find Kintargo is the most fleshed out city just based on the AP without bringing in other sources.
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"Best" AP depends on what you're looking for...
Best Urban Campaign: Hell's Rebels. Super fleshed out city, beautiful art, plethora of NPCs which all feel different, a lot of things don't need to be resolved via combat, a few set pieces that (I think) are unique to the AP, so many different directions the party can go... but, that being said, I had an amazing party for this campaign.
Best Old-School Campaign: Mummy's Mask. Good starting premise, surprising twists, interesting villains, a well written mystery that the PCs slowly discover the answers to, one of my favourite antagonists! (Someone that doesn't want the PCs to do what they need to, but they're not someone that the group can just up and kill or intimidate)... Yeah, I see people say it's just undead and traps and huge dungeons. But they're wrong. Yes, it's undead heavy but the writers constantly found different and interesting types of undead so it didn't feel like the PCs were fighting the same thing over and over again.
Probably the most cohesive story I've seen Paizo do that is straight-forward for a GM to run, doesn't need anything added, and almost everything in it feels like it's required or, at the least, doesn't feel out of place.
I would highly recommend this one for a new GM, or anyone looking for a fairly classic dungeon crawl.
Best Sandbox: Kingmaker. But it takes A LOT of work from the GM. Players can do pretty much anything they want, and the GM has to be somewhat prepared for it.
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Oh yah, Kingmaker I've heard good/bad things about- I've run that type of extreme sandbox game before and in my experience I don't think either the subsystems or the sandbox translates that well to Play by post since the hemming and hawing that takes a few minutes IRL stretches into weeks and kills the momentum.
I just finished Mummy's Mask Book 1 running on the forums earlier this month- looking forward to the rest. Definitely get the old school dungeon delving feel there.
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I am reading Curse of the Crimson Throne the third time currently, and plan to GM it soon. The AP has an engaging and coherent story, enough setting variety and decent NPCs including a villain with some depth and early visibility. Opposed to several APs, there is no weak book and my players prefer heroic fantasy over survival horror.
Encounters might be too weak for the group, but that is hopefully easy to fix.
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Of the adventure paths that I've run or played, Iron Gods remains my favorite. I love the setting and the mix of sci-fi and magic. The first book was a fun callback to the classic Expedition to Barrier Peaks from first edition D&D.
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In terms of sheer size and ambition Kingmaker. The GM has to put a lot of work into it and the PCs have to be willing to give a lot to it; but for the right group, it becomes a wildly entertaining and epic ride.
In terms of how enjoyable an AP is to run and play in, Skull and Shackles. I've never had a better time as a GM with Pathfinder and my players have never had a better time in Pathfinder than being pirates. The AP went off the rails several times, but never to the detriment to the AP. It's free-wheeling insanity at its best.
As for the best overall story in an AP, I'd give a tie to Reign of Winter and Strange Aeons. Reign of Winter is so gonzo that players knowing nothing works better not knowing just how much the AP goes out of its way to top itself. Strange Aeons has the best opening scene and the best starting dungeon in an AP. The realization that the AP twists back on itself to end right where it begins despite going in some very strange directions is great. The fugue mechanic and overt Lovecraftian elements may turn a lot of players off, but I love it.
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Crimson Throne.
Good story, npcs with character, hits all the classic notes without being too cliche. Makes sense from a player's point of view (seriously too many of their APs just don't connect well without seeing behind the screen GM info. I never felt like I don't know why we're doing this, unlike so many parts of other APs).
My vote goes to Kingmaker.
It's a truly epic AP that enables both the players to explore the fullness of their characters and the GM to explore the fullness of the region without any real time constraints at all. I borrowed extensively from surrounding River Kingdoms to create additional political storylines, as well as fashioned plots involving a massive cult of Tiamat (borrowed heavily from "Red Hand" admittedly) and a Lovecraftian storyline throughout. It also has so much good information for the First World that I was able to weave stronger First World elements into the plot from Book Two onward.
By far, it's been the longest Pathfinder AP that we've played, taking us over three years to complete, and my players were incredibly invested. I'll agree that there are other APs that have a tighter fit where the story line is concerned, but Kingmaker's flexibility is unmatched in PF APs . . . though I've always thought that Skull & Shackles had this potential too. Unfortunately, I've not had the time again like I had with Kingmaker to really work with that one, so it's sat on the shelf.
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While I also like Kingmaker, it's more of a niche AP. Definitely not for everyone. I've heard from too many people how their Kingmaker game fell apart because people didn't like the kingdom mini game. With the right group who wants the sandbox and the kingdom management, I agree it's definitely one of the good ones.
I'm finishing up my Kingmaker campaign in the next week or so... been at for 2 years now. It's awesome, but from a GM standpoint, it's kind of a nightmare.
The very sandbox nature of it makes it difficult to keep the party on track when they want to wander around aimlessly and explore. Which may be completely on track. It was difficult for me to know what the track was at times.
The Kingdom building stuff was something that I should have done completely in the background, with only a few emails to the party for their respective rolls. Nice concept. Not worth wasting a session to mess with as a group.
The BBEG isn't mentioned, by name, until the end. No face time. No real knowledge of who, what, or why... $#!+ just suddenly starts happening seemingly for no reason. Now we are one or two sessions from completion, and the party still barely knows the name of the BBEG... whom they fight next week.
Now I am not a very good GM, and Kingmaker was the first Pathfinder AP I have ran... and maybe this question isn't for the GM perspective... but I think it is a discombobulated mess. It has been fun, but definitely confusing to GM.
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Kingmaker should have started AFTER the BBEG has already succeeded in their plan. The AP should be about fixing it. If I ever run Kingmaker again, I'm going to flip the timeline and introduce the BBEG way, way sooner.
I guess I got lucky all around with Kingmaker. Having read through the entire AP beforehand, I created numerous side-stories and really let the players center a lot on their own characters' stories, as well. I introduced the BBEG way earlier and had an involved story line that centered the AP around fey from Book Two. One of the major problems I have with APs generally is that your characters have no time to develop beyond the story the AP is telling, because everything just feels like it must happen so quickly. Kingmaker had no time constraints on it at all, which enabled the players free reign on all sorts of development time! I've run half-a-dozen PF APs, and I thought this one the most freeing from both a GM and player standpoint.
As to the kingdom building, I was lucky on that too. Most of my players weren't interested in it at all, save one, who basically was put in charge of all of it. He then poured over the math of it (which he loves) and made the vast majority of the decisions. However, he wasn't the king, so the group role-played through the decision-making process, with the one player describing to king and council what was happening in the city, then getting any input the others wished to give on where they wanted the kingdom to go (with special emphasis placed on the king's decisions on it). These council sessions lasted between 10-15 minutes apiece. We also did kingdom rolls and all of that during these, with different players rolling for the different kingdom stats, and events would get put into the roleplaying for the month so as to better work in with the players' individual stories. Thus, our kingdom building was incorporated into the role-playing of the game, which worked beautifully and kept the whole party invested with a part of the campaign that they cared little for because of the numbers game.
I will say that Kingmaker requires a ton of time for the GM, but if you're able to put in that time, you won't find a better AP in the line for 1E. That's just my take, however. I do agree with some of the others here on other APs. Reign of Winter has a great story, as does Curse of the Crimson Throne, which I'm currently playing in right now.
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I would agree that Kingmaker is pretty polarizing. For me its the worst AP I've played from Paizo (though Hell's Vengeance is pretty close). It's jam packed with the kinds of encounters I'd call "padding" in another AP, the kingdom management is boring, the plot is nonexistent, and the hexploration is tedious. My group got to the end of Book 2 before we set it down.
I’m hoping the 2E Hardcover helps with that.
Technically a GM doesn't have to wait for it. Owlcat Games did a pretty good job enhancing Kingmaker. It might be a computer game, but the general ideas could be transplanted into PnP:
1) The final villian already appears in book 1.
2) Kingdom management can run automatically, with no risk of failing because of the kindom fails.
3) The bunch of new (and well-developed) NPCs could be added.
If the GM doesn't want to play it, there are very good walkthroughs to provide ideas. I like Gamer Guides' one - free to read, for a download you need to suscribe though (10$ or so).
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That cursed video game made searching for Kingmaker AP related stuff so much more difficult than it should have been. I was fighting to find the AP materials this entire time. I secretly hate that video game without ever even playing it or seeing it played. Lol.
I've started Reign of Winter and Jade Regent now.
For me I prefer return of the runelord because in the end the gm can put you in a time travel an pass you to other campaign from 10 year to 10.000 year old
Hells rebels.
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As a GM I really enjoyed Carrion Crown other than book 6, which I altered.
I also enjoyed Age of Worms for the first few chapters. If I run this player killing AP again I'd probably add more RP opportunities and tone down the difficulty.
As a player Curse of the Crimson Throne. I didn't get to finish it though I enjoyed it up to book 4.
I only played the first book of Reign of Winter. It was brutal. If I run it I'm starting the players at level 2.
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I'm a big fan of the Shattered Star and the Iron Gods adventure paths. Both I've run as a GM. The one(s) I've enjoyed as a player are Giantslayer and Tyrant's Grasp, the later in which I am currently playing through, so views on it might change.
The first few books of Giant Slayer were pretty great, but at a certain point it feels like you're just fighting room after room of giants. I mean, I guess that's what's advertised, but some more variety would have been nice.
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The first few books of Giant Slayer were pretty great, but at a certain point it feels like you're just fighting room after room of giants. I mean, I guess that's what's advertised, but some more variety would have been nice.
My white-haired witch(TM) enjoyed flexing all over those giants. Always had something I could do, so I never got bored with the battles. I mostly stuck to the back (buffing, supporting, summoning, etc) until one of the melee units had to retreat, then I moved in and held down a giant while the rest of the group pummeled it.
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In terms of travel Strange Aeons deserves mention. You spend the first book in one building in Ustalav, then the second one in the city adjacent to that building, then you end up traveling down the entire Sellen river and go as far south as Okeno then deep into the Qadiran desert at which point you leave reality.
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Only Jade Regent scratches the itch of an epic journey. No other AP travels as far, and through so many different lands. Jade Regent is deeply under rated.Reign of Winter? Tyrant's Grasp?
None of those APs trace a path across the world map and makes the journey feel like the heart of the adventure.