Vanilla Fighter is pretty decent with Armor Training and Weapon Training and the advanced thereof.
I like a couple of the archetypes available, but straight Fighter is honestly probably the best out of all of them.
Honorable mention: the Eldritch Guardian archetype gives up the least, and gives you a familiar that shares your combat feats.
No matter what, any Fighter of mine is probably going to have a Greatsword, a Bardiche, and a Bow. More than likely be wearing a Mithral breastplate for the majority of their career, too.
Personal favorites include:
Half-Elf for Adaptability, Arcane Training for Bard wands, Elven Immunities, Keen Senses, and Low-light Vision.
Half-Orc for Darkvision and Shaman's Apprentice and Sacred Tattoos and Fate's Favored and the Orc HornBow.
Honorable mention: Human for Heart of the Fey (bonus to saves and Low-light Vision), and Focused Study.
There's not that many archetypes that are actually worth taking, but High Guardian and Mutation Warrior are definitely on that list. Luckily they stack.
As a strength-based reach fighter you would have 6-7 AoOs per round at level 3, which is a pretty good spot to multiclass out. But stay for two more levels and you get weapon training, another two after that and there's flight.
Spend a feat on Cut from the Air, enlarge yourself, and you're almost going to run out of AoOs.
Weapon Master is my more general case, although I only stay in the class until my 4th level. Enough for two AWT options.
Gloomblades are rad. So are Weapon Masters.
The original Lore Warden
I love pairing it with Martial Master
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I played a two-handed Fighter in plate, who took two levels of Rogue at 7th and 8th level. And Accomplished Sneak Attacker, so he had 2d6 + Str mod + 2d6 sneak attack on his greatsword. Plus Evasion.
He also took in Boots of Elven Kind & a Vest of Escape to get +5 to his Acrobatics and Escape Artist.
I've played an unbreakable fighter and had a blast with them. I've also had fun playing a two-handed fighter.
But I agree with others above that giving up advanced weapon training and armor training are quite painful now that these class features have been greatly enhanced. The above archetypes might still be workable but it wouldn't surprise me if they are now sub-optimal options.
as for the specific build. For the unbreakable fighter I did something like the following.
Sadomasochist Fighter
Key concepts: A fighter that defends her allies by taunting, blocking and getting in harm’s way
Alignment: NE
Diety: Zon Kuthon
Race: Human
Race Traits: Focused Study, Heart of the Wilderness
Class: Fighter(X)
Fighter(1),
Archetype: Unbreakable
Key Feats: Fey Foundling (1st), Combat Reflexes(2nd), Racial Heritage[half-orc](3rd), Body Guard (4th), Eldritch Heritage[Serpentine] (5th), Deathless Initiate(6th), Fast Healer(7th), In Harm’s Way(8th), Antagonize(9th),
Bonus Feats: Skill Focus[Diplomacy] (1st), Endurance (1st), Diehard (1st), Heroic Recovery (5th), Skill Focus[Intimidate](8th), Heroic Defiance (9th)
She was a sword and board fighter, my damage output was terrible but between antagonize and my con damage poison I was able to convince enemies to focus on me.
As for the two-handed fighter, I don't remember much about the build. I know they had power attack and lunge and I know I was looking at getting monkey lunge. I remember a conversation with my DM about it. They agreed to make it so that monkey lunge just removed the penalty to AC when you use lunge, since that seemed to be the intent of the feat.
The above archetypes might still be workable but it wouldn't surprise me if they are now sub-optimal options.
The Two-Handed Fighter was barely worth it even without AWT. Adding an extra 0.5 of your STR mod on a class without inherent strength increases won't amount to much. Likely +2/+3 dmg for the majority of your career. But the dmg increase won't affect AoOs, swift action attacks, or the first one in a full-attack.
Unbreakable has some good defensive abilities. Stalwart, Unflinching, and multiple uses of Heroic Defiance is pretty neat. But the Abundant Tactics and Armed Bravery AWT options are superior to everything but Stalwart, so it's a steep trade-off.
I suppose overruners are my top favorite fighter build, though you need a dip or two to make them perfect. Heavy armor, siege breaker archetype, bullette style, shield slam and so on.
I'm not sure why playing a dude who runs over his enemies is so much more appealing to me than a guy who slaps them with a +X sharp stick of moderate length, but it does.
My favourite fighter I've made is a vanilla whip-using reach fighter. Weapon Training and loads of feats lets you get to doing some lulzy stuff where you can just completely shutdown whole battlefields. Really enjoyed using dazing assault with whirlwind attack.
She had the benefit of being in a really well balanced party too, so with her making vast swathes of enemies irrelevant, everyone was able to execute their roles in combat pretty well flawlessly. My good friend GMed a campaign based on the old Dark Sun Shattered Lands PC game for this group and had to throw absurd odds against us to make the encounters challenging.
I like both Lore Warden archetypes pretty good. I made the above character's son using... one of them in conjunction with multiclassing him to unrogue. Unbreakable is really cool, but the only reason I ever got around to using it was a game where we decided to let everyone have a "free" archetype, so I don't have any realistic builds with it.
While I recognise there are ways of playing a fighter as a full build, I've only seen fighter as a 1-2 level dip for cheap feats and proficiencies, except one time with a guy whose last character died and had lost interest in the game - he dropped out a couple of sessions later. I believe his pure fighter was made with all the weaknesses of the class so that people didn't bother him when it wasn't his turn in combat.
Two-Handed Fighter is a good dip for Barbarians who want to multiply their Str Bonus. +2 Str from rage is less than +5 Strength damage from 2-Handed fighter.
Not seeing it. It's a 3-level dip and the dmg bonus only affects charges or standard action attacks.
Two-Handed Fighter is a good dip for Barbarians who want to multiply their Str Bonus. +2 Str from rage is less than +5 Strength damage from 2-Handed fighter.Not seeing it. It's a 3-level dip and the dmg bonus only affects charges or standard action attacks.
yeah, you don't get backswing until 7th level and which allows you to also get the bonus on all your attacks, but only when you full attack. Your character would need a substantial strength score before it becomes worth it. You get a +1 for every 4 points of strength.
This means that at a 22 strength you would normally get +9 to damage on a 2h weapon. This ability raises it to a +12. If you jump up to a 42 now you would normally get +24 to dmg and this ability makes it a +32. So, you're talking a 3 level dip to get a total of +8 damage per round since it still only applies to your first attack. And only if you're able to get your strength up to a 40.
For reference, you would see a bigger damage increase getting a +3 on 3 attacks.
A net loss of +1 to attack and damage, for a net gain of +50% Str to damage.
So a Vital Strike or Charging Barbarian with 2-handed Fighter dip will deal 50% more damage than the single class Barbarian.
It's more about delaying all your available Rage Powers and the progression of your current ones by three entire levels for a small damage bonus that isn't relevant to the large majority of builds.
Do you want Savage Dirty Trick at level 6 or 9?
Greater Beast Totem at level 10 or 13?
Come and Get Me/Deathless Frenzy at level 12 or 15?
Vital Strike is literally the only fighting style that could use this ability effectively, but the nature of those builds ironically means that the small bonus won't be worth it for them. Not to mention that you'd rather have the Titan Fighter archetype in that case.
I'd go as far as to say I'd never recommend dipping Two-Handed Fighter.
For Dex and Dodge dips, my favorite archetype is Spear Fighter.Have you used Spear Dancing Style Feats?
Spear dancer's nice but shielded staff style really overtakes
What's so special about Shielded Spear Style?
The immediate action maneuver?
Using the shield's enchantment bonus for attack and damage if it is higher than the spear's bonus?
What's so special about Shielded Spear Style?
The immediate action maneuver?
Using the shield's enchantment bonus for attack and damage if it is higher than the spear's bonus?
using the shields enhancement for attack and damage is a MASSIVE cost savings for raw enhancement and allows you to stack useful abilities on the weapon without forgoing the dr bypassing and hit/damage of an enhancement bonus.
If you follow the WBL guidelines, where no one item should be more than 25% of your total wealth by level, you can have a +5 weapon at level 11-12 vs level 14-15. On top of which its +7 to AC.
Scott is right tho, i didn't think any of those had weapon focus as a prereq but they do which means you can take Weapon Style Mastery on your Spear fighter and get both at once.
Spear dancer's nice but shielded staff style really overtakesFor Dex and Dodge dips, my favorite archetype is Spear Fighter.Have you used Spear Dancing Style Feats?I'll have a look, but Spear Dancers can take any pole arm and turn it into a Double, Reach, Finessable weapon, and that seems awfully sexy. I was thinking of taking a Halberd, which already does 1d10 Piercing or Slashing, is a Brace and Tripping weapon, then with Spear Dancing Style, I have a Double, Reach, Tripping, Finesse, Brace Weapon that does 1d10 Piercing, Slashing, and Bludgeoning! Talk about a Swiss Army Knife!
I was just looking at it, and I don't see why you can't dip a level in MOMS Monk and take both Styles: be a Master of Shielded Spear Dancing Style!
The Weapon Style Mastery feat will allow two active weapon styles at once, so a spear dancer/shield staffer wouldn't need a dip.
Vanilla fighter or Unbreakable are my favorites. I usually prefer greatsword and longbow, but I have a fondness for TWF as well. I almost always concentrate on one main style/tactic but select a few feats for contingencies.
I honestly think that Unbreakable Fighter gives up too much unless you are just dipping a level or two.
Eldritch Guardian opens up the door for Improved Familiar and a tidepool dragon that can use wands and shares your combat feats. Which is just fun.
And if you were prepared enough to choose a Half-Elf with Arcane Training for Bard wands, you can be pretty set up for being a big dumb Fighter.
@RJGrady
Five bonus combat feats, Endurance/Diehard, Armor Training 2
+3 vs mind-affecting, Heroic Recovery 2/day, Heroic Defiance 1/day
===
Fighter 9 / Green Knight Cavalier 1
Five bonus combat feats, Endurance/Diehard, Armor Training 2
+2 vs fear, Weapon Training 2, one free AWT option
***
The cav-fighter spends one of their feats on Heroic Defiance and chooses the Abundant Tactics AWT option. With Gloves of Dueling they can use Heroic Defiance five times per day at level 10, while the Unbreakable caps out at three uses per day at level 17.
Spend another feat on Heroic Recovery if you want, but it's too restrictive for my taste.
The Weapon Style Mastery feat will allow two active weapon styles at once, so a spear dancer/shield staffer wouldn't need a dip.Spear dancer's nice but shielded staff style really overtakesFor Dex and Dodge dips, my favorite archetype is Spear Fighter.Have you used Spear Dancing Style Feats?I'll have a look, but Spear Dancers can take any pole arm and turn it into a Double, Reach, Finessable weapon, and that seems awfully sexy. I was thinking of taking a Halberd, which already does 1d10 Piercing or Slashing, is a Brace and Tripping weapon, then with Spear Dancing Style, I have a Double, Reach, Tripping, Finesse, Brace Weapon that does 1d10 Piercing, Slashing, and Bludgeoning! Talk about a Swiss Army Knife!
I was just looking at it, and I don't see why you can't dip a level in MOMS Monk and take both Styles: be a Master of Shielded Spear Dancing Style!
I wouldn't need a dip unless I wanted one! Dipping a level in MOMS Monk not only gives you the ability to use 2 Style Feats at once, but it also gives you that bonus Style Feat. Also, I really like the +2 on all saves, especially Will Save.
That being said, I didn't know about Weapon Style Master before. Cool. Thanks.
Its too bad it doesn't stack with MOMS, since moms puts a hard limit on the style feats
@RJGrady
** spoiler omitted **
The cav-fighter spends one of their feats on Heroic Defiance and chooses the Abundant Tactics AWT option. With Gloves of Dueling they can use Heroic Defiance five times per day at level 10, while the Unbreakable caps out at three uses per day at level 17.
Spend another feat on Heroic Recovery if you want, but it's too restrictive for my taste.
Ok, I read over Gloves of Dueling, and I cannot understand what you are trying to say here.
AWT Abundant Tactics:
The fighter adds his weapon training bonus to the number of times per day he can use a combat feat he has that allows a limited number of daily uses, such as the Stunning Fist feat.
The gloves add to the weapon training bonus, and thus the number of times you can use Heroic Defiance.
Why any of this matters? Because it makes AWT: Abundant Tactics better than the Unbreakable archetype.
Plus, AWT: Abundant Tactics means you still have Weapon Training, which is infinitely better than not having it.
AWT Abundant Tactics:
The fighter adds his weapon training bonus to the number of times per day he can use a combat feat he has that allows a limited number of daily uses, such as the Stunning Fist feat.The gloves add to the weapon training bonus, and thus the number of times you can use Heroic Defiance.
Why any of this matters? Because it makes AWT: Abundant Tactics better than the Unbreakable archetype.
Plus, AWT: Abundant Tactics means you still have Weapon Training, which is infinitely better than not having it.
Apart from being item-dependent, and not really taking into account what the Unbreakable fighter might wear on his hands instead, and ignoring that they must wield a weapon of a specific group: Heroic Defiance is a general feat, and not eligible.
You can't use Abundant Tactics with Heroic Defiance.
Apart from being item-dependent, and not really taking into account what the Unbreakable fighter might wear on his hands instead,
Even without the gloves Abundant Tactics would still have given more uses per day, though. 3 vs 1.
Heroic Defiance is a general feat, and not eligible.
What the hell, it actually is. I don't know where I got that idea, but now I'm even more baffled that Diehard isn't one.
Apart from being item-dependent, and not really taking into account what the Unbreakable fighter might wear on his hands instead, and ignoring that they must wield a weapon of a specific group: Heroic Defiance is a general feat, and not eligible.AWT Abundant Tactics:
The fighter adds his weapon training bonus to the number of times per day he can use a combat feat he has that allows a limited number of daily uses, such as the Stunning Fist feat.The gloves add to the weapon training bonus, and thus the number of times you can use Heroic Defiance.
Why any of this matters? Because it makes AWT: Abundant Tactics better than the Unbreakable archetype.
Plus, AWT: Abundant Tactics means you still have Weapon Training, which is infinitely better than not having it.
Gloves of dueling are pretty much the only hand item a fighter wants. +2 to hit and damage further disarm resistance and the collateral effects on a bunch of your AWT options. Martials will always be item dependent, you can lean in and mitigate their weaknesses or resist it and feel the full force of the CMD