Weapon Cycling


Advice

1 to 50 of 58 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Silver Crusade

How many (if any) ways are there to cycle between weapons without losing full-attacks?

Example: my Cleric has a Ring of Force Shield and a +1 Training[Bodyguard] warhammer (warhammer A), and he just found a +1 Holy Bane[Undead] warhammer (warhammer B) moments before starting an undead-heavy campaign arc. His ideal routine, when not casting, would be:
0) start the round with warhammer A 1-handed and Ring of Force Shield active (no free hands)
1) free action- dismiss the Ring of Force Shield (1 free hand)
2) free or swift action- swap warhammer A with warhammer B (1 free hand)
3) free action- wield warhammer B 2-handed (no free hands)
4) full-attack or move and attack
5) free action- wield warhammer B 1-handed (1 free hand)
6) free or swift action (depending on point 2)- swap warhammer B with warhammer A (1 free hand)
7) free action- activate the Ring of Force Shield (no free hands)

The best and most straightforward solution would involve Glove of Storing, which enables to free action cycle between two weapons. That being said, it competes with Gloves of Elvenkind, which would pretty much make me auto-pass every defensive casting check, so I'm open to further suggestions.

A trivial solution would simply be to pick Bodyguard as an actual feat, however it is too specific, relies on the assumption that I do have a free feat slot, and does not solve the problem at its core. So, if a feat is involved, it must address the issue in its generic form, regardless of what warhammers A and B are.

To be considered acceptable, solutions must satisfy the following criteria:
1) no multiclassing;
2) PrCs with full spell-casting progression are acceptable as long as they satisfy 3);
3) no more than one (1) feat (not Bodyguard, obviously) can be involved overall (including PrC prerequisites, Favored Prestige Class, ...);
4) no dropping involved;
5) must be available to a 11th level character with crafting feats (so, assume costs for magical items halved).

For reference, here are the feats I already have (B = bonus feats from various sources):
Toughness(B), Craft Magic Arms and Armors(B), Combat Reflexes(B), Channel Smite(B), Guided Hand, Blessed Hammer, Power Attack, Trade Initiative (has a Valet Familiar), Forge Ring.


If you make a 2-H attack, you cannot do anything with your other hand for the rest of the round, like holding a shield. That hand is used.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

To do it with feats you'd need Quick Draw and the Weapon Juggle trick (which requires 'Two-Weapon Fighting' and 'Two-Weapon Tricks').

Since you don't have any of those three feats, and don't want to multiclass (e.g. two levels of Juggler Bard), I think the Glove of Storing is going to be your only option.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

You could check if your DM will allow you to add the Glove of Storing ability to Gloves of Elvenkind. The rules for this is to add an extra 50% of the price of the lower costing abilities I believe.

10,000+(7,500x1.5)= 21,250g gloves total or 13,750g to add storing to your current Gloves of Elvenkind.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.

You could also use a quick draw shield


What about playing something with a tail or the feat Agile Tongue? Or maybe that one Alchemist that gets a third arm? You can draw a weapon as part of a Move action with a BAB of +1 or better, and with one of those appendages you can hold something of at least 5lbs, maybe more. So during your movement you could pass off a Warhammer to your extra appendage, then put it back in your open hand after shifting out of attacking 2-h back to 1h.


Could replace gloves of elvenkind with tunic of careful casting and spellguard bracers. The feat Combat Casting works too, although you are tight on feats.


Armor Spikes and Unarmed Strikes can be used even if your hands are otherwise full. Those can be part of any weapons-cycle. You get an extra attack for every Natural Attack you have. A Half Orc archer, could for instance, shoot people all day with his Orc Hornbow, then Bite anyone who came too close, not even having to drop his Bow.

You have Combat Reflexes. Are you looking for ways to make Attacks of Opportunity?


Lelomenia wrote:
Could replace gloves of elvenkind with tunic of careful casting and spellguard bracers. The feat Combat Casting works too, although you are tight on feats.

If one of those competes with something else you could compensate by putting the mental focus enchantment on your armor.

Silver Crusade

LordKailas wrote:
Lelomenia wrote:
Could replace gloves of elvenkind with tunic of careful casting and spellguard bracers. The feat Combat Casting works too, although you are tight on feats.

If one of those competes with something else you could compensate by putting the mental focus enchantment on your armor.

When I say that Gloves of Elvenkind will make defensive casting automatic, I mean that Gloves of Elvenkind will make defensive casting automatic, meaning that everything else has been already considered and, when possible, included:

DC to cast 6th level spells spontaneously: 27
Concentration bonus: 11 (CL) + 7 (Wis) + 2 (Mental Focus) + 2 (Spellguard Bracers) + 5 (Gloves of Elvenkind) = 27

Tunic of Careful Casting is not applicable as the chest slot is already occupied. Regardless, how to reach high concentration scores is a matter for another thread.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Not sure if you have the budget for it, but you could combine Wings of Flying, Lesser with a Harness of Grabbing Vines in order to gain 2 additional arms that can manipulate and hold things as needed.

It would give your character a Dr. Octopus type vibe.


Gray Warden wrote:
LordKailas wrote:
Lelomenia wrote:
Could replace gloves of elvenkind with tunic of careful casting and spellguard bracers. The feat Combat Casting works too, although you are tight on feats.

If one of those competes with something else you could compensate by putting the mental focus enchantment on your armor.

When I say that Gloves of Elvenkind will make defensive casting automatic, I mean that Gloves of Elvenkind will make defensive casting automatic, meaning that everything else has been already considered and, when possible, included.

you should still be automatic without gloves though.

If you really don’t have any item slots available, that’s useful information.

Silver Crusade

LordKailas wrote:

Not sure if you have the budget for it, but you could combine Wings of Flying, Lesser with a Harness of Grabbing Vines in order to gain 2 additional arms that can manipulate and hold things as needed.

It would give your character a Dr. Octopus type vibe.

Interesting. I guess the Radiant Flight armour enhancement might be more convenient than the Wings of Flying, both in terms of cost-effectiveness and slot, if not for the fact that requires a standard action activation.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The Scabbard of Many Blades with the Quick Draw feat would allow you to swap weapons once in a round. The limit is because you only have one swift action per round.

Are you sure your method works? I wouldn’t have expected swapping weapons between two hands to be a free action — especially with both hands full.


Sorry Gray Dubs; you're right, I should've read closer. I apologize for my mistake.

Silver Crusade

BretI wrote:
The Scabbard of Many Blades with the Quick Draw feat would allow you to swap weapons once in a round. The limit is because you only have one swift action per round.

The scabbard does not solve the routine presented above, as it breaks at stage 6):

0) start the round with warhammer A 1-handed and Ring of Force Shield active (no free hands)
1) free action- dismiss the Ring of Force Shield (1 free hand)
2) swift action, Scabbard- swap warhammer A with warhammer B (1 free hand)
3) free action- wield warhammer B 2-handed (no free hands)
4) full-attack or move and attack
5) free action- wield warhammer B 1-handed (1 free hand)
6) can't swap warhammer B with warhammer A (1 free hand)

BretI wrote:
Are you sure your method works? I wouldn’t have expected swapping weapons between two hands to be a free action — especially with both hands full.

Please point the stage of the routine where you see a problem.


the moment you attack with 2 hands, you don't have free hands for the rest of the turn.

Grand Lodge

If you are not allowed to shift hands before and after the attacks by your GM then consider an animated shield instead of your ring. AFTER you activate the animated shield (moveaction) it grant its shield bonus for 4 rounds. Then you don’t need to shift hands between one handing and two-handing the warhammers.


Secret Wizard wrote:
the moment you attack with 2 hands, you don't have free hands for the rest of the turn.

why do you say that?

Silver Crusade

Secret Wizard wrote:
the moment you attack with 2 hands, you don't have free hands for the rest of the turn.

Yes you do. Or are you saying that after attacking with a 2-handed Longsword I am not allowed to hold it 1-handed and draw a potion as a move action with my now free hand? Am I basically an amputee, unless I keep full-attacking with my 2-handed weapon for some reason?

You can attack with a 2-handed Longsword, wield it 1-handed, draw a Dagger as a free action via Quickdraw with your free hand and toss it as an iterative attack. Similarly, you can draw a Quickdraw shield and bash with it, or just have it and enjoy the shield AC.

What you are referring to only applies to natural attacks made as part of a manufactured weapon full-attack and off-hand attacks. Basically, I can't attack with a 2-handed Longsword, wield it 1-handed and make a secondary claw attack or an off-hand attack with your free hand, but this is obviously not the case.

Do not write it a third time please.

*Khan* wrote:
If you are not allowed to shift hands before and after the attacks by your GM then consider an animated shield instead of your ring. AFTER you activate the animated shield (moveaction) it grant its shield bonus for 4 rounds. Then you don’t need to shift hands between one handing and two-handing the warhammers.

I am allowed, as there is no reason I would not be.


So your over the top reactions really want me to troll you but instead I'll suggest that your goals as specifically defined may very well not be achievable.

Posting your full build would be helpful to see what PrCs and feats you qualify for, but it's doubtful that you'll get what you want in just one feat or PrC level.

That said, if someone does have a fix I'm unaware of, I'd like to know because it'd be game-changing.

Silver Crusade

Artofregicide wrote:

So your over the top reactions really want me to troll you but instead I'll suggest that your goals as specifically defined may very well not be achievable.

Posting your full build would be helpful to see what PrCs and feats you qualify for, but it's doubtful that you'll get what you want in just one feat or PrC level.

- Glove of Storing achieves the goal in a trivial manner.

- Glove of Storing + Gloves of Elvenkind (merged with the Glove of Storing at +50% the price or tattooed) achieve the goal without impeding auto-defensive casting.
- Wings of Flying + Harness of Grabbing Vines achieve the goal without taking the hand slot.
- Radiant Flight + Harness of Grabbing Vines achieve the goal without taking the hand, nor the shoulder slot.

Not too bad for a goal very well not achievable.

Quote:
If your GM is excessively permissive/insane, you could use the sunrod equipment trick exploit to qualify for mystic theurge, but that might require a level in a arcane casting class still (rendering the whole affair moot).

Again, where have I ever expressed interest in the Mystic Theurge PrC? Why is it a thing now? Does it come with an extra pair of arms that I forgot about? Does it in any way address the issue apart from the Monstrous Physique spells which I absolutely do not care about?

Quote:
That does beg the question, how much cheese will you (and more importantly your GM) tolerate?

I simply want to cycle between two manufactured 1-handed weapons without multiclassing, spending more than a feat, or changing race (permanently or temporarily). Solutions have already been proposed, why would I want to break the game for it?


Gray Warden wrote:
Artofregicide wrote:

So your over the top reactions really want me to troll you but instead I'll suggest that your goals as specifically defined may very well not be achievable.

Posting your full build would be helpful to see what PrCs and feats you qualify for, but it's doubtful that you'll get what you want in just one feat or PrC level.

- Glove of Storing achieves the goal in a trivial manner.

- Glove of Storing + Gloves of Elvenkind (merged with the Glove of Storing at +50% the price or tattooed) achieve the goal without impeding auto-defensive casting.
- Wings of Flying + Harness of Grabbing Vines achieve the goal without taking the hand slot.
- Radiant Flight + Harness of Grabbing Vines achieve the goal without taking the hand, nor the shoulder slot.

Not too bad for a goal very well not achievable.

Quote:
If your GM is excessively permissive/insane, you could use the sunrod equipment trick exploit to qualify for mystic theurge, but that might require a level in a arcane casting class still (rendering the whole affair moot).

Again, where have I ever expressed interest in the Mystic Theurge PrC? Why is it a thing now? Does it come with an extra pair of arms that I forgot about? Does it in any way address the issue apart from the Monstrous Physique spells which I absolutely do not care about?

Quote:
That does beg the question, how much cheese will you (and more importantly your GM) tolerate?
I simply want to cycle between two manufactured 1-handed weapons without multiclassing, spending more than a feat, or changing race (permanently or temporarily). Solutions have already been proposed, why would I want to break the game for it?

I guess you're happy with your answers then. Congratulations or something?

Knew I should have trolled you instead ;P

*honk*

Silver Crusade

Artofregicide wrote:

I guess you're happy with your answers then. Congratulations or something?

Knew I should have trolled you instead ;P

Thank you or something?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

This is the sort of thread that makes me doubt my sanity for coming back here day after day. Can we not figure this stuff out without abusing each other?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
blahpers wrote:
This is the sort of thread that makes me doubt my sanity for coming back here day after day. Can we not figure this stuff out without abusing each other?

We probably could, but not likely in the USA.

At least it's not politics.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Kind of sure Grey Warden is going to hate this idea but...

Use a Greater Hat of Disguise to become a Kasatha. Boom, now you can wield both of your warhammers, two-hand one of them as a free action, and use a shield without any drawing and sheathing nonsense.

Also you get a +2 size bonus to strength. Downside: you don't look like a dwarf.

Grand Lodge

If your dwarven cleric has the Runeforge archtype (you mentioned this in another thread) then Perhaps you have found use for the artifice domain’s dancing weapon power. After you activate (stanard action) the dancing quality on one warhammer you can draw the other and attack with both the next 3 rounds.


Ok. Like... do you not get that hes trolling you because you're reacting to every post in the worst possible way?

How is this going over your head?

If you want an answer it seems to be "not really easily with your conditions set."

Silver Crusade

Meirril wrote:

Kind of sure Grey Warden is going to hate this idea but...

Use a Greater Hat of Disguise to become a Kasatha. Boom, now you can wield both of your warhammers, two-hand one of them as a free action, and use a shield without any drawing and sheathing nonsense.

Also you get a +2 size bonus to strength. Downside: you don't look like a dwarf.

In principle this is a more than acceptable solution. However for other reasons I am not going to apply it to my character: namely because I am already permanently enlarged, which conflicts with other polymorph, and I do like playing a dwarf.

The problem arises when trolls (hopefully) such as SW insist on this solution relying heavily on multiclassing, despite multiclassing in anything that is not a full spellcasting PrC being explicitly excluded.

Silver Crusade

Cavall wrote:

Ok. Like... do you not get that hes trolling you because you're reacting to every post in the worst possible way?

How is this going over your head?

If you want an answer it seems to be "not really easily with your conditions set."

Is he? Because I've seen this exact kind of off-topic and inconsequential answers on almost every thread he has replied to. That being said, why am I the one who should be blamed for being trolled? So far it was said that my replies are "over the top" and "the worst", when I'm just demanding to stay on topic given the clear list of conditions written above. I do concede that my tone is strong, but why no-one has commented on SW's replies instead? Is trolling more acceptable than wanting one's thread to stay on-topic?


No one is stating his are over the top because, once again, you seem to be the only one failing to understand that its purposeful based on the attitudes you're putting out.

You'll note it only starts that way once your tone becomes acidic.

Until that point all the posts were ernest if somewhat unhelpful based on limits you set from everyone that tried to assist.

Silver Crusade

Cavall wrote:
No one is stating his are over the top because, once again, you seem to be the only one failing to understand that its purposeful based on the attitudes you're putting out.

So it is my fault for being trolled because I dare to complain about the inability of a user to follow instructions I spent time compiling, this is what it's right, this is how the forum is supposed to work. Fair enough.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Trying to completely control what the others write, as long it isn't falling out of FORUM guidelines, not YOUR guidelines, goes nowhere. As long it isn't completely offtopic AND is relevant, Scott Wilhelm is within rights to post, no matter what you think.

Your complaints could have made sense otherwise, if you weren't sabotating these by an extremely poor tone. How is as important as why if not more, and this is an example 101. What Cavall says otherwise.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Gray Warden wrote:
Cavall wrote:
No one is stating his are over the top because, once again, you seem to be the only one failing to understand that its purposeful based on the attitudes you're putting out.
So it is my fault for being trolled because I dare to complain about the inability of a user to follow instructions I spent time compiling, this is what it's right, this is how the forum is supposed to work.

I think the reaction is largely because the abrasiveness was unexpected. It's much like seeing a beggar on the street with a sign. You don't bother reading the sign but hand them a $1 bill only to have the beggar crumple it, pelt you in the face with it and start yelling at you that their sign clearly indicated they wanted five dollar bills only. The gut reaction is to yell back at the beggar saying they aren't being reasonable. Even if other people are reading the sign and giving the beggar fivers.

All that to say. I completely understand where you're coming from. I know that I don't tend to post on here asking for information until after making an attempt to track it down myself. It's annoying when people miss what you're trying to do and suggest things you've already looked at and know won't work. Or worse suggest changing half of your build to do something they think is cool, while simultaneously destroying the whole point of the character.

I got from your post that you're primarily looking for a solution that only involves magic items, you'll consider non-magic item solutions but only if it synergies really well with what you're trying to do. There are a large number of options I found that sort of did what you're looking for, but none of them were free actions meaning they didn't meet your criteria. So, I didn't bother pointing them out since they aren't really solutions and you've probably looked at them anyway.

I also understand not wanting to post your current character build since you aren't looking for a critique and inevitably someone will say.

"Why in the world are you taking trait A? Trait A is stupid because that situation never comes up, you should take trait M instead because its awesome."

Since, they didn't bother to read what you're asking and just assumed that you wanted advice regarding your character build.

Grand Lodge

LordKailas wrote:
I think the reaction is largely because the abrasiveness was unexpected. It's much like seeing a beggar on the street with a sign. You don't bother reading the sign but hand them a $1 bill only to have the beggar crumple it, pelt you in the face with and start yelling at you that their sign clearly indicated they wanted five dollar bills only. The gut reaction is to yell back at the beggar saying they aren't being reasonable. Even if other people are reading the sign and giving the beggar fivers.

The failure to acknowledge it is wrong, and adapt accordingly, is what caused the tone of the topic to degrade that quickly ... A wrong reply to a wrong post doesn't transform it into a right.

Silver Crusade

Philippe Lam wrote:
Irrelevant by your own standards, still relevant in the broader scope of advice. Words have differing means for people anyway, so agreeing to disagree.

Then please explain to me how can it be relevant in the broader scope of advice. Advice: "how to do X without involving Y"; reply: "do Y". Can you show me how a different interpretation of what it's written can make the reply relevant and acceptable?


Gray Warden wrote:
Philippe Lam wrote:
As long it isn't completely offtopic AND is relevant

Explain to me how this is relevant please.

Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Grey Warden wrote:
1) no multiclassing;
So, take 3 levels in Wizard

It's relevant because you said

You wrote:
PrCs with full spell-casting progression are acceptable

I am suggesting 3 levels in Wizard by way of fulfilling the prerequisite for taking a Prestige Class. That is what PrC means, right?

Also, Polymorphing into a creature with more than 2 arms is a way to use both hammers at once, and the levels in Wizard and Mystic Theurge is a way to get those Polymorph spells

1 to 50 of 58 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Weapon Cycling All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.