SFS and the COM


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Liberty's Edge 1/5

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
NightTrace wrote:

...I just pulled up a random CR13 and they're rocking a +20 melee/+22 ranged attack with a bunch of SLAs toboot...

I do take it back about that CR13 I pulled, it was a special case *cough*. That said, I'll try and pull another one up later haha.

Second Seekers (Luwazi Elsbo) 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Lieutenant, North Carolina—Charlotte aka eddv

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My thing is that its approaching that point and it's approaching it without any particular gain.

Shields aren't mechanically interesting they're just math enhancers enhancing math I don't want to see enhanced.

There's barely even an opportunity cost on this given that The Ring exists and that prosthetic arms eventually exist and gives a big old boost to Kasatha and Skitters

Liberty's Edge 1/5

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Douglas Edwards wrote:

My thing is that its approaching that point and it's approaching it without any particular gain.

Shields aren't mechanically interesting they're just math enhancers enhancing math I don't want to see enhanced.

Ahh, that makes more sense to me, I can grok that.

4/5

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I could rant about EAC/KAC vs attack. In fact, I deleted a rant I was starting on it. What I will say is this: while some folks might not like math enhancers inflating some math, there are other folks (like me) who have found the system to lack options that...

  • Address specific fantasies in the genre
  • Allow for defensive builds without relying on specific supporting PCs

    COM addresses those items for me and shields are part of it. I still think the shields are a tad conservatively designed, which I think is a concession to the intended system balance. I have a lot more concern about the vesk prehensile tail than anything in the class or equipment sections.

  • Second Seekers (Luwazi Elsbo) 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Lieutenant, North Carolina—Charlotte aka eddv

    And among those fantasies is what using a riot shield?

    5/5 5/55/55/5

    Douglas Edwards wrote:


    Perhaps its my exposure to higher tier content lately but it's started getting to the point where I am practically EXPECTING level+2 armor on anyone who plans to melee.

    People may have geared up for a higher tier scenario, but they can't keep that up. You can't have level +2 armor all the time.

    Quote:
    Think of how 'whatever' Dhurus would have been if when he opened up for a full attack he missed 4 times.

    Well, he currently hits altronus on what.. a 3? if he needs a 4 or a 5 instead I don't think that knocks things out of whack.

    Quote:
    I simply dread going back to the old PF1 "ah yes you have a 38 AC and my to hit is +17" days - especially when Enhanced Resistance exists and is standard issue for anyone in melee.

    Having three sources of armor is vastly different than pathfinders armor/neck/ring/dex/hat/weird ability

    I think the non effectiveness of armor at preventing hits is why PF2 had to use the raise system

    4/5

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    Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
    Douglas Edwards wrote:

    And among those fantasies is what using a riot shield?

    Wasn't a fan of the name choice, certainly not a fan of the IRL connections, but hey, Gungans had shields. Wakandans had shields. Shields are part of quite a few tech-advanced fantasy settings.

    Didn't quite make sense to me that nobody had figured out how to put a thing in between the user and things coming toward the user in dangerous ways.

    Dark Archive

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    Douglas Edwards wrote:
    Shields aren't mechanically interesting they're just math enhancers enhancing math I don't want to see enhanced.

    No offense, but maybe they aren't interesting to you. Others may be very interested in them. A small bump to survivability would be nice for Solarians who don't want to take Heavy Armor Prof or dip into Blitz Soldier.

    I've been wanting more options for my characters to do space kung-fu and I'm glad that the CharOpMan brings those in spades. I know not everyone wants more unarmed options, but please don't deny me the ability to create my character.

    Serisan wrote:
    Douglas Edwards wrote:
    And among those fantasies is what using a riot shield?

    Wasn't a fan of the name choice, certainly not a fan of the IRL connections, but hey, Gungans had shields. Wakandans had shields. Shields are part of quite a few tech-advanced fantasy settings.

    Didn't quite make sense to me that nobody had figured out how to put a thing in between the user and things coming toward the user in dangerous ways.

    I had been wondering the same thing for a year. How do we have a world with laser guns & starships, but no one can make a shield?

    They could've named it Tower Shield, but the name is a minor thing.

    5/5 5/55/55/5

    squeeeee...

    Looking through it, one of the biggest problems I see is the medic archetype. People really want to play a viable healer, but holy cow does a mystic with that archetype render an envoys inspiring boost completely superfluous.

    Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

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    Yeah shields (regardless of what kind of mechanics are used to implement them) make a lot of sense if you're going to confront things that will throw stuff at you, claw at you, or shoot possibly deflected beams at you.

    5/5 5/55/55/5

    "Add leverage" feat is absolutely bonkers. As funny as it would be to see skittermanders bullrushing people for 35 feet at a time , an effective +30 to bullrush attempts is a little nuts for a feat.

    Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

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    BigNorseWolf wrote:

    "Add leverage" feat is absolutely bonkers. As funny as it would be to see skittermanders bullrushing people for 35 feet at a time , an effective +30 to bullrush attempts is a little nuts for a feat.

    Especially combined with Tripping Rush.


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    Wait till you see how OP Protective Fur is.

    Liberty's Edge 1/5

    Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

    There's a reason this book is going to take forever to get sanctioned. *cry*

    5/5

    Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

    I've been going through the spells section and there's a TON of stuff in there that I'm sure they're not going to allow into SFS. With how much stuff there is in this book along those lines, I don't expect this to be sanctioned any time soon.

    I'll be happy as long as they allow Add Leverage to be legal.

    3/5 5/55/5 Venture-Agent, Virginia—Portsmouth aka Pogiforce

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    I wish it were sooner rather than later. I've got a number of character concept that I can't advance without this book.

    4/5

    4 people marked this as a favorite.
    Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
    Sean Castor wrote:
    I wish it were sooner rather than later. I've got a number of character concept that I can't advance without this book.

    Similarly, I just don't intend to play in Society until it's sanctioned. From my perspective, this book was needed a year ago to keep the system fresh. I finally got it, started building a character for the first time in months, then dejectedly realized that sanctioning would prevent me from actually playing.

    5/5 5/55/55/5

    Brain hacker has a giant "ban me" sign on it

    5/5

    1 person marked this as a favorite.
    Serisan wrote:
    Sean Castor wrote:
    I wish it were sooner rather than later. I've got a number of character concept that I can't advance without this book.
    Similarly, I just don't intend to play in Society until it's sanctioned. From my perspective, this book was needed a year ago to keep the system fresh. I finally got it, started building a character for the first time in months, then dejectedly realized that sanctioning would prevent me from actually playing.

    I'm still playing, partially because I realized that some of my characters would benefit from multiclassing into the new classes or options after a certain level... I still have some work to do to get them to the correct level to change over.

    Gonna be a super badass melee Soldier/Biohacker.

    5/5

    Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
    BigNorseWolf wrote:
    Brain hacker has a giant "ban me" sign on it

    Yep. As does the Optimize Technology spell.

    I'm a little frustrated that so many of the spells are either narrow, worldbuilding utility spells, OR obvious SFS-ban-worthy spells. There's not a lot of stuff in between that I'm expecting to be allowed to use. Fingers have been crossed that Hoverdisk makes it in. That spell is sweet.

    5/5 5/55/55/5

    Cellion wrote:
    BigNorseWolf wrote:
    Brain hacker has a giant "ban me" sign on it

    Yep. As does the Optimize Technology spell.

    I'm a little frustrated that so many of the spells are either narrow, worldbuilding utility spells, OR obvious SFS-ban-worthy spells. There's not a lot of stuff in between that I'm expecting to be allowed to use. Fingers have been crossed that Hoverdisk makes it in. That spell is sweet.

    It has the same problem as floating disk insofar as "what happens when you put your meatshield with a giant weapon on it to get full attacks" that needs to be sorted out.

    Liberty's Edge 1/5

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    Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
    Sean Castor wrote:
    I wish it were sooner rather than later. I've got a number of character concept that I can't advance without this book.

    I'll be honest, I wish we could see a segmented/staggered approval on this. I 110% want to play with the new archetypes and *both* of my current SFS characters are right in a place where I won't be able to take them if I play more than a few games on them.

    Soldier -> Powered Armor Jocky
    Operative -> Starwright

    The issue so far has been stated to be the volume of content, but...I mean...maybe pick small chunks and approve as you go so we get access quicker? (I can sell this pitch right? :P )

    3/5 5/55/5 Venture-Agent, Virginia—Portsmouth aka Pogiforce

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    The thing for me is the classes and a few Class options I've got an Elebrian ad a Morlamaw that I've been sitting on for Biohacker and Vanguard, respectively. I have a level 1 mystic that will be going star Knight and was going to be healing connection, but now that I've seen the crusader connection it has a lot of appeal. I also want to be able to use a shield. There's some nice fantasy in a star Knight crusader mystic of Iomedae entering battle with a long sword and a Knight's Shield.

    Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

    2 people marked this as a favorite.
    NightTrace wrote:
    Sean Castor wrote:
    I wish it were sooner rather than later. I've got a number of character concept that I can't advance without this book.

    I'll be honest, I wish we could see a segmented/staggered approval on this. I 110% want to play with the new archetypes and *both* of my current SFS characters are right in a place where I won't be able to take them if I play more than a few games on them.

    Soldier -> Powered Armor Jocky
    Operative -> Starwright

    The issue so far has been stated to be the volume of content, but...I mean...maybe pick small chunks and approve as you go so we get access quicker? (I can sell this pitch right? :P )

    We all want it to go faster, but there are also a lot of items in different chapters of the book that interact with each other. For example, some envoy improvisations allow the party to take extra Guarded Step actions, while the Witchwarper has a lot of options to make monsters Staggered. Those need to be viewed together to estimate if that could be a problem. So you can't really chop up the book until you've analyzed it for all these combinations...

    Grand Lodge 5/5 5/55/55/5 Venture-Captain, Online—PbP aka Hmm

    4 people marked this as a favorite.

    Yeah, I thought for a bit about how this could be tackled in sections, leaving the pesky spells section last, and then realized how sucky it would be to be a witchwarper with only your CRB spells sanctioned... Every time I tried to slice a section out, it got entangled with other sections.

    Fortunately for me I still have a bunch of CRB options that I haven't played yet.

    PS. I admit though that Bret and I have a pair of z1st level characters now that we have bubble-wrapped in long term storage that are waiting for not-yet sanctioned options to show up. But it's not only COM that we are waiting for!

    Grand Lodge 5/5 5/55/55/5 Venture-Captain, Online—PbP aka Hmm

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    Me wrote:
    z1st level characters

    I love typos. I cannot figure out whether that is 'Ze First Level Character, Yah' or a numeric from a culture that does not use base-ten numbers.

    Hmm

    2/5 5/5

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
    Hilary Moon Murphy wrote:
    Me wrote:
    z1st level characters
    I love typos. I cannot figure out whether that is 'Ze First Level Character, Yah' or a numeric from a culture that does not use base-ten numbers.

    I assumed the latter when I read it.

    4/5

    4 people marked this as a favorite.
    Hilary Moon Murphy wrote:
    Me wrote:
    z1st level characters

    I love typos. I cannot figure out whether that is 'Ze First Level Character, Yah' or a numeric from a culture that does not use base-ten numbers.

    Hmm

    Skittermanders *probably* do not do base 10 math, considering the number of arms. All the images I found show 6 arms, and 3 fingers and a thumb per hand. I would guess a base 24 counting system.

    Exo-Guardians

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    RealAlchemy wrote:
    Hilary Moon Murphy wrote:
    Me wrote:
    z1st level characters

    I love typos. I cannot figure out whether that is 'Ze First Level Character, Yah' or a numeric from a culture that does not use base-ten numbers.

    Hmm

    Skittermanders *probably* do not do base 10 math, considering the number of arms. All the images I found show 6 arms, and 3 fingers and a thumb per hand. I would guess a base 24 counting system.

    ”Correct. Skittermanders never leave anything dozen-assed.”

    Sovereign Court 5/5 5/5

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    Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
    RealAlchemy wrote:
    Skittermanders *probably* do not do base 10 math, considering the number of arms. All the images I found show 6 arms, and 3 fingers and a thumb per hand. I would guess a base 24 counting system.

    That would be a tetravigesimal system ;-)

    ...huh. So, does that mean Skittermanders are from the Southern Highlands province of Papua New Guinea?


    NightTrace wrote:
    Sean Castor wrote:
    I wish it were sooner rather than later. I've got a number of character concept that I can't advance without this book.

    I'll be honest, I wish we could see a segmented/staggered approval on this. I 110% want to play with the new archetypes and *both* of my current SFS characters are right in a place where I won't be able to take them if I play more than a few games on them.

    Soldier -> Powered Armor Jocky
    Operative -> Starwright

    Starwright definitely won't make it in for exactly the reason you want it - the ability to walk through all doors and most walls 24 hours a day.

    Liberty's Edge 1/5

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    Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
    Xenocrat wrote:


    Starwright definitely won't make it in for exactly the reason you want it - the ability to walk through all doors and most walls 24 hours a day.

    You're actually 110% incorrect. I want the speed boost for vehicles. My Operative is a ace pilot, I run a Helicopter and will be looking at things like Tanks :P

    edit: To be clear, I 100% agree with you on the wall walking not making the cut. I'm just hoping they cut specific options so I can get my nitro boost for my garage :P

    Dark Archive

    Serisan wrote:
    Sean Castor wrote:
    I wish it were sooner rather than later. I've got a number of character concept that I can't advance without this book.
    Similarly, I just don't intend to play in Society until it's sanctioned. From my perspective, this book was needed a year ago to keep the system fresh. I finally got it, started building a character for the first time in months, then dejectedly realized that sanctioning would prevent me from actually playing.

    I'm in the same boat. I just haven't been interested in playing SFS until I saw what was in this book. I'm still not playing any until I know what I can actually use.

    Paizo Employee Starfinder Society Developer

    13 people marked this as a favorite.

    Hearing this feedback loud and clear!

    I'm waiting for our additional resources folk to finish their review, and following that I'll be combining it with my pass and reviewing it with some folks internally. I hope to get it out ASAP once that's complete.

    Sovereign Court 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 Venture-Agent, Georgia—Atlanta aka The Masked Ferret

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    Thurston Hillman wrote:

    Hearing this feedback loud and clear!

    I'm waiting for our additional resources folk to finish their review, and following that I'll be combining it with my pass and reviewing it with some folks internally. I hope to get it out ASAP once that's complete.

    We appreciate your attention, Thursty.

    1/5 5/5

    1 person marked this as a favorite.
    Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    Thank you very much for the update.

    Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

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    Trust me, I'm in the AR taskforce and I'm having cramps not making new characters until it gets sanctioned :P

    Scarab Sages 4/5 5/5

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    Man, I have a level 3 Witchwarper GM blob who I’d love to play soon, so add me to the ‘can’t wait to play this’ pile. I also want to make a Copaxi biohacker who is trying to figure out what

    Spoiler for the Copaxi Scenario:
    happened to his race to make them loose their gravity powers on a genetic level.

    As far as what is most likely to be allowed or not?

    That alternate race features that shift around the +2/+2/-2, like Forlorn Elf, will probably be allowed (I can’t see why not), but maybe not the +2/+2/+2/-4.

    I imagine shuriken assassin will be disallowed as SFS has so far disallowed ANYTHING that allows full level to damage with trick attack (You get full level to damage if you throw shuriken with that talent) which is super depressing. I want to make my Morlamaw ninja!

    I think double tap needs to be clarified if it is to be made legal, as, RAW, you can’t get ‘em and double tap. Heck, depending on how you read it, if your FRIEND uses get’em you can’t double tap.

    I haven’t looked through the spells too much. I have nothing to say on them.

    Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

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    VampByDay wrote:
    Man, I have a level 3 Witchwarper GM blob who I’d love to play soon, so add me to the ‘can’t wait to play this’ pile. I also want to make a Copaxi biohacker who is trying to figure out what ** spoiler omitted **

    This is a very cool idea!

    Scarab Sages 4/5 5/5

    Lau Bannenberg wrote:
    VampByDay wrote:

    Man, I have a level 3 Witchwarper GM blob who I’d love to play soon, so add me to the ‘can’t wait to play this’ pile. I also want to make a Copaxi biohacker who is trying to figure out what ** spoiler omitted **

    That's a very neat idea!

    The Copaxi one? Thanks! I've been sitting on it for over a year. Originally he was going to be a Geneturge mystic, but being a biohacker fits so much better.

    Quote:
    VampByDay wrote:

    As far as what is most likely to be allowed ornot?

    That alternate race features that shift around the +2/+2/-2, like Forlorn Elf, will probably be allowed (I can’t see why not), but maybe not the +2/+2/+2/-4.

    Well having 4 arrays to choose from per race is almost the same as "get +2/+2 on stuff you want and -2 on something you don't care about so much", which for a bunch of race-class combinations is an improvement of +2 on the current situation. But it's also a pretty obvious push by the Starfinder designers, and SFS generally doesn't go and totally re-do their design. I'd be surprised if this gets rejected outright.

    I mean, in the end, it is about giving people the tools to make their characters come to life. I've wanted to make several halfling fighty guys, but that -2 to strength always got me. Now I can make it happen with the stout halfling. Or you can now make that Elf Vanguard more viable.

    VampByDay wrote:
    I imagine shuriken assassin will be disallowed as SFS has so far disallowed ANYTHING that allows full level to damage with trick attack (You get full level to damage if you throw shuriken with that talent) which is super depressing. I want to make my Morlamaw ninja!
    Well it's full specialization, but only with the bottom-tier weapon. Doesn't the operative kinda need it to keep up with other weapons?

    That's what I thought about Pistol Whip, and it was disallowed, and Shuriken assassin is basically Straight Up better. For a refresher, Pistol whip basically gives you improved unarmed strike, and makes it lethal and non-archaic, and operative, if you have a small arm in your hand. Additionally, if you are a race with a natural attack that does 1.5x level to damage, you do full level to damage with trick attacks when pistol whipping. So, As a comparison of the two:

    Pistol Whip (unarmed strike) Had slowly scaling damage
    Shuriken assassin has more slowly scaling damage.

    Pistol Whip allows you to shoot/melee trick attack with the same weapon in hand
    Shuriken Assassin allows you to shoot/melee trick attack with the same weapon in hand

    Pistol whip allows for full level to damage IF you are the right race
    Shuriken Assassin allows full level to damage with any race

    Pistol whip allows full level to damage on melee attacks
    Shuriken assassin allows full level to damage on ranged attacks

    Pistol Whip allows full strength to damage on melee attacks
    Shuriken assassin allows full strength to damage on melee AND ranged attacks.

    Weapon fusions on your weapon only apply for ranged attacks.
    Weapon fusions on your weapon apply on ranged AND melee attacks.

    The only thing pistol whip holds over Shuriken assassin is that the ranged damage goes up (with whatever small arm you're holding) and that the damage scales somewhat better. Oh, and that I guess you can put higher fusions than 1 on your weapon, but again, those fusions only count for your ranged attacks. In fact, when pistol whipping, your attacks don't even count as magical.

    As much as I LOVE shuriken assassin, and I do, I'm not holding my breath for it to be legal. I'd LOVE for it to be legal, but I'm not holding my breath.

    Quote:
    VampByDay wrote:
    I think double tap needs to be clarified if it is to be made legal, as, RAW, you can’t get ‘em and double tap. Heck, depending on how you read it, if your FRIEND uses get’em you can’t double tap.
    What needs to be clarified? It just isn't as good as you'd hope at first glance.

    I mean, I think there just needs to be clarification, because all the examples they give are boost examples and stuff like that. I think it is meant that you can't Boost it or overcharge it or whatever when you fire your gun, but in an attempt to future proof the feat, the inadvertently made it too broad.

    2/5

    Pathfinder Lost Omens, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    I've been sitting on Witchwyrd boon since slightly after COM was announce to make a Geneticist Biohacker.

    Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5

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    Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

    For my Skittermander Witchwarper I plan to have several table tents using different fur colors that I'll swap out every time he does some reality altering realness.

    "You're looking rather blue today, feeling alright?"

    *alters reality, now appears green*

    5/5 5/55/55/5

    3 people marked this as a favorite.
    Nefreet wrote:

    For my Skittermander Witchwarper I plan to have several table tents using different fur colors that I'll swap out every time he does some reality altering realness.

    "You're looking rather blue today, feeling alright?"

    *alters reality, now appears green*

    so your spells are all backwards? You're not summoning a reality where the thing you want happened you're sending an alternate you to the reality where it was?

    Second Seekers (Jadnura)

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    Douglas Edwards wrote:


    Think of how 'whatever' Dhurus would have been if when he opened up for a full attack he missed 4 times.

    Yeah, that would be a shame.

    Scarab Sages 4/5 5/5

    9 people marked this as a favorite.
    Nefreet wrote:

    For my Skittermander Witchwarper I plan to have several table tents using different fur colors that I'll swap out every time he does some reality altering realness.

    "You're looking rather blue today, feeling alright?"

    *alters reality, now appears green*

    I plan to have my witchwarper just narrate what happens. But then again, I have a Film Noir Nuar.

    "Hey, can you turn my drink into booze."
    "Little did he know that his drink had always been booze, he just didn't realize it. . ."
    "I . . . hey are you listen-wait, when did my drink . . . what?"

    3/5 5/55/5 Venture-Agent, Virginia—Portsmouth aka Pogiforce

    Might do a copaxi vanguard actually... Seems fitting ... Still want to do a Morlamaw vanguard too, though. Decisions, decisions...

    Scarab Sages 4/5 5/5

    1 person marked this as a favorite.

    Man, I was hoping the COM would be made legal by now so I could play my Witchwarper in our weeklong local SFS/PFS charity drive. Sad face.

    Dark Archive

    VampByDay wrote:
    Man, I was hoping the COM would be made legal by now so I could play my Witchwarper in our weeklong local SFS/PFS charity drive. Sad face.

    Hoping it'll be updated by January 17 for the SCARAB convention

    1/5 5/5

    There was a mention on the podcast the Friday before Thanksgiving that the hope is to have it by Christmas, if possible. *fingers crossed*

    2/5

    Pathfinder Lost Omens, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    Im going to do a Izalguun vanguard when it gets sanctioned.

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