I'm an operative, I've got skills to burn. But beside the point I don't need to worry about using Mysticism outside knowledge checks because it has only two other uses: crafting magic/hybrid items and identifying spells. Life science's only other check is making medicinals, and I think biotech? Engineering is the most useful skill outside of knowledge checks, and as a hacker I get free ranks in it every level so I don't need to concern myself with it. So I chose Mysticism. At 8th level I'll choose life science, although I don't really care about making medicinals, and 14th and 20th levels I don't really care because that's so far away.
thank you, I think so too.
not that it's relevant, but the batmobile in most depictions does have passenger seating, and in the Walmart commercial they put groceries on it. As for a baby seat, my character is an Android and has no need for such things.
"Spread out, it has AOEs""It has reach, don't shoot from there."
"Don't waste your invis spell, it has natural see invisibility."
"Don't get too close, it has an aura of confusion."
It's like saying your ruler is accurate to the nanometer. It's NICE but.. how often is that relevant?
it means that, as a hacker, it scales passively with me and I don't have to put any more effort into it. So I can almost always guarantee that I'll always identify, and top off other skills that may need more help.
I may be misremembering and ascribing more mystique to the sunrise maiden than it's worth. I don't know, I don't have my incident at Absalom station in front of me to double check at the moment.
I remember seeing somewhere that the gap is about 300 years, but I don't remember my source. Elves are so long lived that many of them lived through the gap, but can't remember it. This deeply troubles the elves, so much so that their distrust of other races has only worsened, and they have become even more insular and exclusionary. They've nearly all retreated back to the elven home continent on castrovel. All other races are forbidden from living there, Though they've recently extended invitations to half elves to settle there. Presumably because true elven population has reduced drastically, and they are desperate to repopulate.
you get that ability at level 2. In society You can rebuild your skill points out of those knowledge skills at level 2 when you pick up the archetype. Even if you don't, sense says that if you're going to be using computers from now on, why put more ranks in it. So you should be wasting few, if any, skill ranks.
it says having access to the Infosphere or a downloaded data set you can use computers to identify. It doesn't say the check takes any more time than normal. All armor's have a personal communicator built in, which among other things have cameras and wifi, and in the vast there are library chips. It's basically the equivalent of me going "Hey Siri, what's this monster I'm fighting?" If something that was normally a free action took two rounds there would be zero reason for the ability to exist. The ability is called fast retrieval, not grandpa's first iPad.
And that's ignoring the fact that I can use those skills for things other than knowledge checks as well, just that at level 2 I can only choose one of them. I get more with leveling up.
But you can't compare that to not being able to identify creatures at all because there are other ways of identifying creatures. The ability only makes you BETTER at it, the question is how much? Yes, a sports car gets me to the store, but if i want a sports car or a jeep I don't compare a sports car to walking i compare it to every other car in the lot.
first, I never said the other party members would not have knowledge checks. Second, it's a vast improvement. It's not a sports car vs a jeep. It's the batmobile vs a wagon. At level 7 my Data Jockey could guarantee identify ANY regular creature cr 14 or less. Rare creatures cr 10 or less. Other's knowledge checks can't guarantee. The skill may be absent or under represented at the table (from my experience Mysticism is the biggest victim of this) being able to guarantee an identification up to twice my cr is worlds better. Excessive, maybe. But it would be unfair to downplay it as comparable to attempts by others.
Keep in mind too my Data Jockey didn't even max int. He started with a 14, because I started with an 18 dexterity. And he's looking at guaranteeing knowledge checks on high cr enemies.
For the purposes of identifying creatures your skill int mod and training bonuses are usually good enough.
not really. Identifying monsters gets a lot harder at higher levels compared to Pathfinder because the DC is 10 + 1 and 1/2 x c r rather than just 10 + CR. At low levels it's not hard but the DC goes up by 3 every 2 CR. even with full investment in skill ranks it's outstripping you by 1. Operatives edge only keeps up for the first few levels, same with bypass and the only knowledge skill bypass works on is engineering. So it gets to a point where you have to rely more on rolling well than one's skill modifier. (Though for me alien archive helps with that.)
Also, just a reminder that Mysticism is a wisdom based check.
For an operative taking ten and the operative bonus and full ranks will always be enough (if its not? Shoot your slowest party member and then Run)
I'm confused, are you talking about trick attack again? Detective and explorer get culture, and hacker gets engineering, but otherwise you have to spend a feat on skill focus to be able to take 10 on knowledge skills. Or, be a hacker spec with Data Jockey to use computers for all of them, but then that's using the archetype again.
that's admittedly hard to argue against since the trade off for me is an extra trick attack die. But I will clarify that it bypasses all resistances, Dr and er. The only thing that makes it meh for me is distributing that buff to my teammates makes me an envoy for the round, when arguably trick attacking might be better. I'll see when I get there, who knows, stripping away resistances for my team may be oddly satisfying. If I don't like it, can always just go back to trick attacking. For me, fast retrieval gives me the fantasy of "I can get whatever Intel you need" just fine.
You missed my point. I said identify not trick.often times being able to identify enemies weaknesses strengths and resistances beforehand can help a party develop a proper tactic instead of wasting rounds firing ineffective weapons or blundering right into the enemy's special attacks. Additionally tactical acumen at level 9 allows me to turn that ridiculous identify into a buff for the whole party. Sure I could probably trick attack against their Dr 4 reduced damage or I can reduce that DR and ER for the whole party.
Also just for playing a character who's all about gathering Intel it has a lot of appeal.
the universal translator requires 10 minutes with a willing member of the species. you don't always have that time. Tongues is a high-level spell. Share language again requires the target to be willing and when encountering random species they may not be willing to let the strange alien creature touch them for one reason they can't understand.granted knowing known languages isn't going to help with that either but neither will your solutions if the alien species you are encountering doesn't trust you. And really why would they? when it comes to languages in the known pack world's being able to already speak that language is a lot better than wasting a first-level spell sharing a language known. That's if your party has a technomancer or mystic and if they actually learned that spell. I've seen a few spell casters at my tables and very rarely do they prioritize language spells.
But aside from that I'm talking about being able to use culture in place of life science for humanoids and monstrous humanoids and diplomacy in place of intimidate to demoralize. With 90% of the enemies you fight being some kind of sentient alien race a significant portion of the enemies that you will see will be humanoid are monstrous humanoid. Being able to use diplomacy to demoralize as well means that that's two more skills that you don't necessarily have to spend skill points on. the archetype is called Steward officer. The stewards police The pact worlds. Generally you're going to play a character who's going to be doing a majority if not all of their explorations in The pact worlds with that sort of character. In a home setting your GM can give you an idea of what sort of campaign to expect. In society play you can just choose to play a different character for scenarios that do not take place in The pact worlds. For the job it's supposed to do it does it really well.
So this topic makes me want to ask for advice, because I have a character who touches on this topic in their back story, and as a cis hetero man I don't want to offend.
My Android operative Overwatch was created illegally by a company illegally gathering resources from as of yet discovered planets by waging wars to steal resources from the native populations. Overwatch was part of a black ops Android slave team who's skill set was specifically hacking defense systems so the ground troops could bypass. They were also all female, with highly sexualized bodies that the unscrupulous higher ups did not hesitate to abuse.
Eventually Overwatch escaped with enough data to put the company out of business, and submitted it anonymously to the Stewards. Before the Stewards could take them down though, the company dissolved and it's executives all but vanished, escaping justice. Fearing reprisal and recapture, Overwatch acquired both a serum of sex change and a serum of appearance change. The Android went from a buxom bubblegum pink haired female frame to a thin, wiry male with white hair and pale skin. They assumed a new identity and took up a job running diagnostics at an Anacite forge on Aballon.
Overwatch is chaotic neutral. I roleplay them as emotionally stunted, rarely deviating from a neutral expression, but sympathetic to slaves and other caged and abused creatures. Extremely slow to trust others, Overwatch has divulged their personal history to no one, and never speak about themselves. This extends even to IRL, as this is the first time I have mentioned Overwatch's backstory. No one asks, and he won't tell. they refer to themselves as male, and identify as such. He maintains a calm exterior, even when he sees things that make him angry or scared. He has no sexual attraction or desire for intimacy of any kind. I honestly don't remember what the word for that is...
I disagree with that because of the action economy. If get em was a swift, but improved get em let's you do it as a standard with an attack, yeah the bonus is one higher, but in using your Improved get em that way you are dedicating your standard action to attacking. Whereas regular get em, if a swift action, may use your Swift action but frees up your standard action to use how you see fit. Like drink a serum, or hack a computer, or perform first aid on a downed ally. Yeah the bonus is one higher, but you're giving up versatility in combat when you do that, and I'm not counting the all enemies in 60 feet get em because that has a resource cost and you're not going to do that Everytime you use get em.
I think if they are going to have improved get em and not just have it, say, improve by 1 for every 4 envoy levels, it needs to be a bigger difference than another +1, with a resource cost to get em all foes in 60. Maybe have it default to bonuses to both attack and damage, instead of that having a resource cost.
Lightning Raven wrote:
The funny thing is, if it was a swift improved may need to be.... Well, Improved. Part of the charm of improved is it turns the move action into basically a free while you attack, plus the additional +1 to hit and +2 vs all enemies if the resolve is spent.improved effectively turns get em into a free/swift action. The thing is as a swift action, get em would be extremely similar in terms of action economy. So the Improved action exonomy of improved get em may not be as appealing.
There really isn't anything that bypasses energy resistances though, this isn't DR. Nor does it use bypass in the language. It says overcome, and it also says if that attack does not overcome ER. So my understanding of it is it's for energy attacks which do insufficient damage to overcome the er, you can reduce their er and may do something. Which might be useful if the enemy has huge er, but against enemies with er 5/10 I see this rarely kicking off. If the er is that difficult to overcome, you could always try a different weapon, most characters should have a couple different options by level 7. This honestly doesn't seem that useful. If it didn't have the caveat of "if your attack doesn't overcome ER" then it would translate to a flat 5/10 er reduction, which would be great.as is, it doesn't seem worth the gear boost. You don't get those that often.
I went first into appearance, then personality, then his background and motivations. I figured Having all that info would make it easier for them to write the character how I Invision them.
I would put the doenlow first, as it's described as the "largest and safest" neighborhood. Since all depictions of the spike show it getting narrower as it goes, and it's described as generally getting less safe the further you get, the top floor of the spike makes sense. I also don't see wealthy people traveling through more dangerous, less appealing neighborhoods to get yo the downlow, especially since they don't really like going there in the first place.
I agree that it doesn't extend the range of auto-cones. I still think you're overthinking it though. Scopes in Starfinder do increase the weapon's maximum range. I just don't think it was the intent of the developers for you to have to constantly cross-reference two different ranges for a single weapon just to see if you take a minor penalty to hit.
Scopes do not increase the maximum range, it's VERY clear about that.
In addition, a scope increases a weapon’s range increment for determining penalties to attack rolls due to range. For small arms, a scope increases the weapon’s normal range increment to 1-1/2 times its listed range for this purpose. For longarms and heavy weapons, the increase is 4 times the normal range increment. For sniper weapons, the increase is twice the range increment of the sniper special property. The reduction in penalties due to aiming with a scope applies only to the next attack roll you make with the weapon before the end of your next turn. Scopes also confer other benefits depending on their type.
The scope's improved range is only for calculating range penalties. Nothing else. There is no complicated cross referencing necessary, just take your normal range increment, multiply by ten, you can't shoot further than that. Use the scope's enhanced increment to determine attack penalties.
It could. At a -4 penalty to the attack.
It does say it holds explosives, whatever those are.
explosives are basically another form of grenades, using all the stats of grenades, except instead of throwing them to detonate instantly they are set to be detonated using a detonator keyed to that particular explosive. You can buy explosive packages for the same cost of the matching grenade. The detonator is extra though.
I don't think that's right, Pogiforce. That just seems way too complex to have been intended.
It's very explicit on that wording though, increases your range increment ONLY for the purposes of determining range penalties to the attack roll. That means for all other uses of the range increment, aka the range of cones for automatic weapons, or the maximum range the weapon can fire before hitting your target becomes an impossibility, you would still use the base increment of the gun. I agree that that is more complicated since you will have to track 2 different range increments (3 with snipers) depending on whether the weapon is automatic and how far you are shooting, but it's very clearly intended.
Scopes let you shoot more accurately, not further. Otherwise people would smack a scope on every blast weapon and you end up with shotguns inexplicably shooting people 20/25 feet away.
Though I wouldn't mind a weapon attachment that constrains the pellet spread of a shotgun, allowing it to shoot further but in a tighter spread. Convert it into a 25 foot line istead of a 15 foot cone.
My mistake, I'm still thinking pathfinder on that one. Granted, I could still be wrong, but my GMs always told me five range increments, and I never had a combat with a ranged character do far out that I had to really concern myself with whether I was properly informed in that regard.
My point that it doesn't let you shoot any further than normal is still relevant, though.
You're welcome! I play a hacker specialization operative in Society play, so I have a lot of experience in coming up with creative explanations of how a computers check would create an opening.
Though I did mispeak when I said distracting hack as an example. That is a mechanic trick. I was actually speaking about the feat Amplified Glitch and I've corrected my previous post.
The amplified glitch feat presents that same issue. Though it serves a similar purpose. So it could be said that hacking in this way is doing little more than causing displays and indicators to misbehave, but doesn't do enough to be a meaningful hack. The way I see it, the idea that you're hacking to cause a distraction is just flavor. The mechanical rules behind it is all that really matters, and the operative could just as easily say he's hacking his HUD/scope/whatever to highlight a spot on the enemy where you could attack that would catch him off guard. Or, if you lack tech equipment but your enemy has something, maybe causing a short in the armor's subroutines creating a temporary opening.
Basically, it's whatever you want it to be, and as long as the mechanical specifications are met, I wouldn't worry too much about it. If you get a player who tries to weasel that ability into getting to hack in ways they shouldn't be able to, tell them it's a trick attack combat subroutine in their hacking kit that let's them create immediate tactical combat advantages, but that to write and insert hostile code via Bluetooth signal it can't be long lasting.
Or, a simpler answer, "because I said so."
The talk about romance makes me wonder what races are biologically-compatible enough to have children. It's pretty much a given that humans can have kids with elves, orcs, half-elves, half-orcs, planar scions of their own or the mentioned races, and hags/changelings; I also know that some half-elves are half-ryphorian instead of half-human. But what about lashuntas, astrazoans,
There really is potential for half Ryphorian, half verthani, half X races in Starfinder.i think that really should be explored more.
2.5: it only increases your range increment for the purpose of calculating range penalties, which means it's not actually increasing your range increment.
Looking at it right now, how I'm reading it is having a scope increases your effective range increment, but ONLY for determining range penalties. This prevents the cone from automatic weapons from expanding, and also doesn't let you shoot past the fifth range increment for your weapon.
When you take the move action to aim, the penalty to shoot past the first increment is reduced by 1 per increment.
Milo v3 wrote:
The technomancer iconic is in a relationship with a Ryphorian I think.
Just checked, can confirm. Raia had a romance with a winter Ryphorian male named Danese during her days in college, but they ended up parting ways after. Danese joined the Skyfire Legion, while Raia pursued her studies in alien life forms. Danese had actually offered to abandon his commission with the legion to remain with her, but Raia convinced him that neither of them should sacrifice personal advancement and improvement for the other.they however remain committed to one another and communicate regularly.
There's a lot of good feedback here. It sounds like The Envoy is undenisbly useful, but nonetheless limited in it's usefulness and not terribly exciting to play. I hope paizo is seeing this feedback, and might be looking at ways to errata/fix these issues before the core book update. It's a core class, and the first one listed in the book. It's a shame it leaves so many people underwhelmed...
Lau Bannenberg wrote:
I feel like, at least IMO, that's why the Data Jockey, the Steward officer, the augmented and the arcanimirium sage* are the best Archetypes right now.
Data Jockey is about identifying monsters and turning that into combat power. Sometimes you use it a lot, sometimes only a little, but at some point you're going to have to identify some baddie. Especially for mechanics or hacker spec operatives, this archetype has huge potential. Probably best for drone mechanics who focus on supporting their team. That way they can give tactical advice if they want, or shoot, either way their drone can fight. An operative will have to weigh if it's better for them to trick attack, or to help the party bypass resistances, but the benefit of a hacker spec operative is at level 7 they are pretty much guaranteed to identify.
Steward officer gives both extra face tools like languages and consolidates face skills in combat, with a little help for identifying humanoids (one of the most common enemy types) then extra combat ability at level 4 is good, while the demand surrender can force either the enemy to give up or at least allow the party to dogpile on to the enemy.
Augmented is just... It's cheaper augments, more augments, extra utility from spending resolve, and one of any six great buffs depending on what PUs you have. Cheaper and more augments is extra utility, combat power, whatever you need. Overclocked systems is the same, depending on if you are overclockingba mental or a physical PU. Clearly best for soldiers, but there's argument for nearly any class with this one.
Arcanimirium sage is caveated that it's only useful to a class with a spell list, AKA Mystics or Technomancers. But magic item scholar gives the sage identify for free, and access to hybrid or magic items at an earlier level. Spell gem manipulation basically just means you can buy spell gems that have a spell not currently known and let you cast it once per day without expending the gem, effectively expanding your spells per day to a certain extent. And then you get to wear a third magic item. Again, great for mystics and technomancers. Would like to see more archetype that more directly benefit the spellcasters.
Agreed that it would be a lot more appealing if it was just once per combat without the need to rest in between.
Soldier gets hit, takes 13 points of damage. Level 4 Envoy Inspiring Boosts, recovers 12. Soldier is left with 1 stamina point of damage. that's it for that combat. takes a few more points of damage as things go, ends up with about 10 Stamina Damage. He's still got 22 Stamina left, so they keep going.
Next combat, soldier gets hit, takes 9 points of damage. Inspiring Boost, he's at 7 stamina damage. takes another 6 before the end of the combat, he's now down 13. Only slightly worse off than before, let's keep going.
Big baddie time, not thte boss but definitely mean. Soldier takes a wopping 20 points of damage, 1 point of that goes into HP. Inspiring Boost the Soldier, he has 12 stamina points. Fighting continues, he loses another 20 points of damage, which eats up that stamina and puts him into 8 health. He now has no stamina, and 8 HP damage. Maybe Time for a break.
If this was how the rules are now:
Soldier gets hit, takes 13. Envoy recovers 12. takes more, ends up at 10 damage.
next fight, takes 9 more, then six more. down 23 stamina, only 9 stamina remaining. The Soldier is ballsy, insists on continuing.
big baddie hits for 20. Soldier is now 11 points into HP. takes another 20 hit, that's 31 HP and the Soldier is down. He's now spending his RP to stabilize instead of recover stamina, and he's still got all that HP damage unless he wants to burn limited use resources.
If you have a party taking a rest every time between fights, they're being overly cautious, and ten minute breaks add up to a lot of time sitting around when the party may have urgent business to attend to. So to me, taking a rest after every fight is not ideal.
I get that they don't want people spamming Inspiring Boost. If they could always do it, it's kinda like DR on tap. Guy takes 10 points of damage, but when the level 2 envoy inspiring boosts for 8 really he only took 2. At that point you're trying to outdamage the cheering squad, and multiple Envoys only makes this worse. So I get it, don't let them spam it. But once per ten minute rest is very limited. Once per Combat lets you get more mileage out of the party before a rest without it becoming spammy. A suggestion to the Devs. Would certainly make Inspiring Boost more appealing, at least.
How do characters become solarians? If it's a training thing, then how do non-kasathas gain the power of the stars? It's the tradition of the kasathas, so it makes little sense for, say, trox to follow that path.
Based on my reading of the background for the Iconic Solarian, it's not really a training thing. Not exactly, anyway. Like the Jedi it's modeled after, some people just have a gift. The training simply helps nurture it. and this gift can manifest at any point in one's life. In the case of the Iconic Solarian, he didn't manifest Solarian powers until he nearly died trying to defend the brain vaults of the Idari from a would be thief. It took him by surprise about as much as it took the thief.
If anything, like the Jedi Order and the Jedi Council, the Kasatha just have a culture that is built to recognize and nurture this gift in people, and so Kasatha are naturally more prone to becoming Solarians. Theoretically, the rest of the Pact Worlds are just as capable, they just don't have the same culture to help bring it out in them.
Think the difference between Anakin having the Jedi order see his potential and taking him to teach him how to grasp it, versus Rei who kind of just... found it on her own.
Like I said, I chose a Sonic pickaxe for my soldier, but mainly because he's a stereotypical mining profession dwarf. I think sonic, like in Pathfinder, is the most favorable energy type because barely anything resists it. So unless they nerf sonic effects somehow with errata, or present more monsters with resistance/ immunity, players are going to naturally gravitate to it. Especially since I think sources of sonic damage are more readily available in Starfinder.
Tangent to back on topics, how about a fun envoy improv that let's Envoys treat shout weapons as a class proficiency? Maybe a higher level improv that gets them 1.5 or 2.0 level to damage with shout guns. Would give Envoys another cool must have improv. Iunno, just an idea. I like throwing ideas around in case a Dev sees it and goes "that's a good idea" and does something like that for a future book. Suggestions, really.
I'm not sure I like what you are implying. What do you mean "people like me", and what makes you think I wanted or needed your help?
I'm not actually sure where this idea that melee has to target KAC comes from. There are plenty of EAC targeting melee weapons.
And I'm sure there are plenty of people who use apple computers.
Again, I'm not saying those options don't exist. They are just in a minority in both quantity and favor. Especially since amped up natural attacks are such a popular melee choice.
I'm fully aware that players use EAC melee weapons. I have a bombardier soldier with a Sonic pickaxe. That does not invalidate the fact that most melee options, especially the favor given to natural and unarmed attacks, target KAC. That's a simple fact. I am also fully aware that kac weapons, in either the ranged or melee category, do more damage. A tac semi auto does 1d6, wheras comperable energy weapons do 1d4. It is worth noting however that those same weapons have shorter ranges than their energy counterparts. This only reinforces my stance that, as a rule of thumb, kac = closer = harder to hit but more damage. Wheras EAC = further with same accuracy = less damage. Again, this is not a hard and fast rule, I never claimed it applied to all weapons, but it applies to enough of them that saying "most" is justified, and it's a reliable rule of thumb.
The same applies to monsters. You are pulling monsters who's kac is lower than expectation, I can find monsters I'm sure who have higher than expectation. Besides, it doesn't matter if the difference is 1, 2, or 10. It's a safe bet that if you are trying to decide to attack EAC or kac, EAC is going to be lower. There isn't enough outlier to establish itself as a norm rather than an exception.
Melee attacks are also mostly against KAC, whereas most guns are against EAC. Combine that with accuracy boosters, and ranged attacks are generally safer and more likely to hit. But melee attacks do more damage. As was said earlier, it's a risk/reward thing.
I'm not sure how melee would work as an Envoy.
That is a problem my Shirren Envoy has been having, and with her low Dex I had been strongly considering upping her strength to 13 so she could take heavy armor proficiency. But now that I'm planning to take medical expert, skill focus medicine, and increased telepathy as her feats up to level 12, I simply don't have room for heavy armor.
I do think Shirrens can be good Envoys though. Though they have a -2 charisma, they get a +2 diplomacy which more than makes up for it in that skill. A free reroll from communalism is never a bad thing, plus limited telepathy works through walls, so you can be heard as an envoy even when cut off. And often times, being heard is enough. Plus their racial HP is fairly high.
You only delay or give up your skill expertise at level 9, and you'll have three already at that point: sense motive, and any two of Diplomacy, bluff, culture, computers, disguise, engineering, intimidate, and medicine. If I'm giving up yet one more skill to add 1d6+2 to in exchange for a 9th level archetype ability, which is arguably the coolest ability in any archetype, well that to me sounds like a net positive.
Plus a lot of Archetypes actually don't have a 9th level replacement.
A thought I had, which I think would be Archetypes that people would use, could be called cross class Archetypes. This makes the "Archetypes usable by any class" a benefit.
Lvl 6: Oral Tradition
Lvl 12:A Minor in Science
Lvl 14:Graduate of Hard Knocks.
It's rough, and envoy was probably the worst class to try to make a fun archetype out of, but an idea. Would allow you to get specialization and other class abilities that aren't replaced on time.