Me playing operative in King Xeros of Star Azlant, level 5 operative in a tier 7-8 game:
okay, so I roll computers to trick attack the mook, and that's a 27 to trick
GM: you trick.
Me: Okay, so then I roll to hit and... That's a nat 20! Plus 8 to crit against flat-footed eac.
GM: wow, okay. Roll damage.
Me: so with a corona laser pistol, plus trick attack doubled, that's 4d4 + 6d8 +4. So let's see... I got 48, and he burns 1d4 on his turn.
GM: well, it's his turn next, roll fire damage.
Me: I got a 3.
GM: he's dead.
Party focuses big bad, I'm fighting mooks. One mook still standing. My turn.
Me: that's a 24 to trick, does that still trick?
GM: that tricks.
Me: rolling to hit... Another Nat 20, oh my God!
Me: rolling damage.... Oh wow that's a lot of 8s. 51 damage and 1d4 burn.
GM: g+!!$*mit Sean!
Bill Baldwin wrote:
I know it's been a while since I've Gmed Fugitive on the Red Planet, but it sounds to me like your GM hates you.
So what he's trying to do is full attsck with combat maneuvers. He is allowed to do this, but there are only a few combat maneuvers that can be used as part of an attack or full attack action. That is trips, disarms, and sunders. Everything else is either it's own standard action or has other special rules.
Full attacking with combat maneuvers also incurs their full attack penalty, in addition to any penalties they might take for that specific maneuver.
Keep in mind too that the ship you get in the first book only has a crew compliment of 4 to 6. That means 4 characters minimum to operate the ship, with a maximum of six. You can fit more than six, but only six can do anything at any given time in a starship combat. If you have your crew operating above the ship's compliment, that will contribute to starship combats being easier.
When you make the giant tentacle monster "flat footed" it still aoos the meatshield on his way up.
Wait, flat footed doesn't prevent attacks of opportunity in Starfinder?
Also, on the matter of resolve tanking, that's not how I want to play. That's not fun. It takes two full rounds to get back up that way, and eats a lot of resolve. On a class that naturally eats a lot of resolve. It doesn't help that because I wanted to be different, I chose a Shirren for my Envoy. Which does the job really well, but has less resolve than non Shirren Envoys might. So just because you are okay with resolve tanking doesn't mean I have to be.
Besides, that's not really tanking. Being hard to kill is not the same thing as a tank. Tanks take aggro and keep their allies from getting hurt. You're not doing that on the ground in a pool of your own blood.
I'm just at a bit of a loss as to what your envoy is doing in combat that they can't stay at full staminia and 1 hp.
AOEs? Grenades, explosive blast, lightning bolt, etc? Dick enemies who shoot the envoy because it's an easy kill? Environmental hazards? Being surrounded, things with reach, wild predators who think the little thing in cloth makes an easier meal than the big thing covered in titanium? Frontline fighter screwing up and now they're down, and there I am standing there with 1 HP? Void hantus who just fly over the frontliners and screw with the casters and supports because their tactics say so? There are plenty of ways the envoy can get hurt. Being in the back does not automatically make me safe. My envoy is a good person who helps however they can, but they're not a martyr.
My ac is butt, my health and Stam squishy. I'm aware of mystic cure"s ability to top people off, but I'm hesitant to use it if it puts me in kill range. Not to mention Envoys use their resolve a lot more than the other classes. Especially since Envoys don't get cool things like evasion, or heavy armor, or a good fort save. I am the most vulnerable person on the battlefield already without weakening myself. Then there's is the fact that I can only do that once per combat, and only once altogether unless I heal myself, which, 9 times out of 10 in my case, means sinking costs into healing serums. If I'm giving away that much health, it's going to take at least 3 mk 1 serums.
Plus those are all consumables. Sure, 3 mk 1 serums are only 150 cred. Yeah, a mystic cure spell gem is only 140. But if I'm paying a minimum 290 credits per session, if not more, those costs are going to start to eat away at my ability to upgrade. Yeah, the improved medical kit cost me 2700, but at least that is something that I can use once per ally, per day, until the end of time.
Sharpshooter soldier is more reliable, with their full BAB, full level to damage, their ability to reduce cover. Operatives are more well rounded, still doing respectable damage, can debuffs enemies, have other various in and out of combat talents, and have way more skill power than any one character has any business possessing.
I took a look at spell thrower and mystic cure gems. Those... Help. But aren't perfect either. The gem is consumed in the process, and it would be 140 credits to replace. Then it would effectively take me two rounds to use. One to get into position, and one to use it. Which I realize is the same action economy as using medical expert, but medical expert uses an item that's only 50 credits.
I see your point though. No matter my approach, in combat healing as anything other than a mystic simply isn't efficient. I might still take Bedside Manner for the little bit of extra healing and the improved aid vs poison and disease, but instead of investing so heavily with my feats and abilities in pursuing being a field medic, I might want to seek other abilities that can (defensively) aid my party. I can justify hurry, I can't justify get em. quick Quaff might still be useful...
May choose culture instead of medicine for my second skill expertise, if only for the expertise talents. Tech familiarity seems useful. Though battlefield medic still looks useful mainly for the ability to combine the first aid and treat deadly wounds actions, with a free extra treat deadly wounds...
So not taking medical expert because it doesn't actually give another use of treat deadly wounds and incurs extra costs. May still take battlefield medic for the extra/combined TDW. Don't know if I'll take surgeon to go with it because battlefield medic only kicks in when first aid becomes necessary. Which, hopefully, shouldn't happen that often. Taking surgeon just for an extra battlefield medic use, especially when surgeon itself doesn't look useful (extra TDW, but taking an HOUR to do so) meh...
So thinking of medicine for skill expertise at 5, bedside manner at six, battlefield medic at 7, then I'm done with medicine until they print something worth the resources.
At 8, I don't know... Watch out, hurry, quick Quaff, focus? Level 9 expertise in culture. Level ten another one of those improvs, or Improved hurry if I took hurry. Level 11, tech familiarity, cultural savant, keen observer?.... Maybe additional skill expertise. Blah. Hard to decide.
It really depends on your table. For example, that will never happen where I live because no one who plays here has a mystic. I don't think anyone but me and my sister have even given them a serious look. So no Mystic Cures. And the only weapon fusions anyone has taken are called and throwing.
My current SFS Envoy, who is a pacifist and will be a field medic, currently has Inspiring Boost, Don't Quit, and Long-Range Improvisations. I plan to take Bedside Manner and Quick Quaff at some point, with the character running around dispensing healing in various ways. That leaves me 2 more improvs on the path to level 12. I'm thinking hurry could be something I can do if I don't need to / can't boost somebody. Though Watch out looks promising come level 8, being able to buff an Ally's AC by 4 as a reaction. Watch your step might be good too.
Jadrin Handcart wrote:
Which scenario is this? Your description doesn't have any spoilers, I'm just curious. I've never heard of a scenario described as "too easy".
Is there a typical naming convention for Stelliferas? The only example I could find was the single NPC named Half Red.
At that point the name could be anything. You could name your stellifera Cinderella and no one short of the devs would be able to argue with you. What source are they going to cite?
Default isn't half, it's 10% <.<
Edit: oh wait, you said pathfinder APs. My bad.
I mean I guess yo be fair nearly all my characters started with second skin, got graphite carbon skin on chronicle sheets,
Pantshandshake, I was more interest in the retrofitting and upgrading section, which I found and read on my own. It helped my understanding of the matter. Basically my understanding of BP needing justification is true to a degree, but is solved by caveat. In the same way spending fame for a body recovery in society is assuming you made arrangements prior for someone to come retrieve you in the event you don't return when expected. As a GM I see the fault for the "BP out of thin air" is at least partially on me. I should have presented means and opportunity. (An example being as thanks from the natives for saving them, they present a trove of ancient lost tech that could be used to upgrade their ship, and also promise to guard them while they busy themselves with the upgrades.) I will encourage my players to come up with their own caveats for BP (bargain for as extra pay in an otherwise balanced deal, discover an allow vein they could sell the rights to in exchange for ship building materials made out of it, etc.) But the method I was employing puts extra burden on the PCs to find resources and time, in a campaign that seems to be, by design, limiting on both.
And then when Dead Suns gives you money, they don't give you opportunity to spend it from pretty much book 4 onward.
Not to mention, the game assumes that when your players level, their ship levels up as well.
I don't see it that way. I view ship tier as basically another "wealth by level" chart separate from the normal one. A guideline of how strong the PC's ship should be based on their level, not how strong it MUST be. I know the book doesn't word it that way, but it seems their intent when looking at book 6 of Dead Suns.
the PCs are given the opportunity to control two different ships in the book: a tier 3, and a tier twenty. The book actively admits that the tier 3 is weaker than they may be used to, and that the tier 20 is far stronger than they are used to. In both cases, for all intents and purposes it's their ship. But the ship's are still called tier 3 and tier 20. The ship's tier is not adjusted to account for the party's apl.
So to me that says the PCs can end up controlling a ship that doesn't match their tier one way or another. Whether that be they had to change ships in a hurry, or they simply didn't think about where the BP was going to come from. And them piloting it doesn't automatically change it's tier, nor make BPs appear out of thin air. Everything comes from something.
I don't remember the exact specifications of the boon, but it left me with a very important question. It let you buy a specific augment at a discounted price of 3000 credits. It also said that because it was bought at a discount, it would sell back for only 300.
From my understanding, augments code to your genetics and can't be resold, so...? Is this just the writer of the chronicle not knowing the rules? Or is this specific augment resellable?
That was one thing I liked about the PFP adventure. More than once I saw treasure tables where it basically said " the loot is three items of these item levels that you think are appropriate to your party." It's a great use of the item level system, giving your party custom loot without it being too strong. Since starfinder has item levels as well, I think it would be a great practice for the APs. Doesn't have to be every treasure section, just every once in a while. Puts more agency on the GM other than reading a script, personalizes the AP to your unique party make up, and makes the experience more unique.
Our run of 1-99 was poorly handled, the GMs ill prepared, the overseer not fully understanding the game's systems, and we were shoved into a time slot that didn't allow us to take the time 1-99 demanded. As such we didn't get much opportunity to delve into the lore, or think about what we were seeing. I'd spend a replay on it for another opportunity to experience it properly.
I haven't played 1-31 yet, so I'm avoiding spoilers.
The only way I see dealing with this is twofold.
A. Does not work with weapons that have the wound or sever wound crit ability. Vorpal is the pathfinder equivalent, was a +5 bonus on the weapon, and only worked on a twenty. Wound and severe wound should be the same way, except we don't have crit confirm rolls so instead the enemy gets to make a save.
B. Make the crit range enhancing fusions not legal for society play.
Just as an aside, I find it humorous that this is still ongoing.
But to he on topic, in a home game you can do whatever you want but if we're talking about something that should be implemented officially, then you hit a snag in Society play. Because anything that's legal for the players is fair game for writers. And for it to be on a chronicle sheet it needs to be found in the adventure. As xenocrat pointed out, the odds of losing a limb to a crit / severe crit is phenomenally low. If your character has the misfortune to win that lottery though, you're presented with a new problem. In a home campaign the GM can do as Claxon says: put items or whatever out there to help that character recover back to roughly where they should be wealthwise. In society play you have to pay fame or credits for a restoration, or get a prosthetic. If you had an augment in that limb, your GM may be kind and say since the augment was keyed to your limb you can save the augment do long as you retrieve the limb, but they could just as easily rule the augment is lost. And Starfinder society has no way to equittably reward a character who suffers that kind of loss. There will be no making up the credits wasted. If you introduce a fusion that can make those sorts of events happen more often, even if it's just 5-10%, it's going to cause more players in society to walk away from the table upset- or hobble away because they lost a leg.
Closer to "in line" than "opposition". It seems like particularly bad language even by their standards. (Sorry Paizo, I love you, your games are super fun, but a lotta times you're writing is just really difficult to parse through) and as you said, even by Starfinder standards interpreting the language the way it's written would make it worse than par for the course for Starfinder(cries in Envoy) but just as the writing is simply worse than normal, this ability could simply be worse than normal. It really, really needs either an errata or an FAQ, and I'm hoping either of those will make it better than how others and I are reading it.
Weed is legal in California. Doesn't mean a large portion of society would not view me disfavorably, or that I wouldn't lose my job and face potential jail time in NOT California if I was a weed user.
Or to compare apples to apples,necrografts are a medical procedure. abortion is a medical procedure. But different places have different restrictions on abortion, and a large portion of society holds very strong negative opinions about the people who do them, the people who get them, and the process itself. Not trying to get political, just stating a fact. When getting described as "less reputable, back alley clinics" as sources for necrografts, that sounds like the same language used to describe getting a hook up from a dealer of illegal substances. They wouldn't be outlawed if there wasn't some stigma against them. There are a number of popularly worshipped God's who are very much anti-undead. Would not be surprised to see a sarenaite funded billboard saying " Just say NO to Necrografts!"
Well aside from the stigma, and the fact that a lot of necrografts can't be hidden, there's the "I don't want undead rotting flesh attached to my body, useful or not" and then there's is the nature of my characters.
Darwyn is the descendant of Grant Stoneshield, silver crusader, venture captain of the pathfinder society, Savior of Akiton. A paladin in everything but name, a paragon of good, defender of the weak, destroyer of evil. Though the gap makes the exact content of Grants exploits foggy at best, Darwyn aspires to live up to his forebear's legacy. Darwyn often asks himself WWGD: what would grant do? Undead are associated with evil, and corruption. If Grant wouldn't do it, Darwyn aspires to keep to that same principle.
David Caine is a follower of Iomedae. Aside from the fact that his wife would disapprove, it would be a violation of his faith.
Teach is obsessed with all manner of living creatures, sentient or otherwise, their biology, their culture, the way life changes as it goes on, everything. Her obsession extends to her choice of augments, preferring biotech. Especially if the biotech is a symbiotic life form in it's own right. (Symbiote personal upgrade, Wildwise being a fungal life form.) Necrografts are vat grown undead flesh. It goes against her personal ethos, and she is worried given that animals have a history of being frightened by undeath, and she wants to befriend ALL the animals, getting necrografts might impede that.
Overwatch, being a Cyberborn Android, is confident in his assertion that cybernetic augments are the only ones that are truly reliable and efficient. Magic is poorly understood and volatile. He does believe that magic is just technology too advanced for most of society to comprehend, but that's not a good argument for magitech augments. Let's just take this thing no one fully grasp that can explode if done wrong and put it in my body, great plan, I always wanted a built in self destruct device with a hair trigger. biotech is like willfully getting an infection, and necrografts are like saying gang green is good. Cybernetics only please.
I know a lot of people just look at class mechanics, look for something reasonably optimized, and just self insert. Nothing wrong with that. I play with people like that all the time. I build my characters with personality types, goals, aspirations, and belief systems, then I play that character. So as I said, if I was going to play a character who would get necrografts, they would have to be someone who sees value in it. A. Undead already. B. Someone who might sympathize with groups like the corpse fleet and desires to be undead. Maybe some permutation of that where a balance between life and undeath is perfect, C. Edgelord black metal rockstar who uses necrografts to further his outsider persona. D. Some form of outlaw who already has a Target on his back, so what society thinks of him doesnt nearly matter so much as the will to survive.
C actually sounds pretty awesome, might be my next Envoy. Join the acquisitives, get a publicist, talk about all the aliens he's slaughtered and use a graphic illustration of their piled up dead bodies with him standing on top hard rocking as the thumbnail for his next album. Should do well with the ysoki and human teenage boy demographics, girls too who like that bad boy image. Make him secretly a coward and while he's got get em and Improved get em to act hard for the publicly, take "not the face" for when things start looking bad. That's the money maker!
The solution then is in availability. Credits/UPBs are common. Just make earning BP rarer.
It's written into the setting. From Armory:
Necrografts are augmentations utilizing undead organs and necromantic rituals rather than technology. They were invented on Eox, and they are most commonly available in Orphys and at the Necroforge within Eox’s Lifeline. Most other Pact Worlds outlaw the creation and installation of necrografts (though not their possession), but they can still be found in some less reputable back-alley augmentation clinics on multiple worlds throughout the system and beyond.
Outside of Eox, Necrografts are relegated to shady, black market business. They aren't widely accepted.
Neither of those seem to actually touch the main issue with trying to make a sane BP to credit conversion factor. Credits per tier of item increase on a much sharper exponential curve than BP per tier of ship. So multiplying by a constant can't reconcile the 2, without scrapping the BP system and rebuilding it.
I disagree. UPBS are at a constant price, are virtually a trade good, and can be used to make anything. Simply treat BP the same way, at a higher price point. The only difficult thing is trying to determine a price that's fair, that's sufficiently expensive without being too ludicrous.
I see that. I think for me it's just making BP a physical construct instead of an abstract, because I don't like it when my dead suns party levels up and goes "we're APL 10 now, we wanna spend our extra BP on linked turrets" like it's something that just happens out of thin air. The ship isn't a character, it doesn't gain experience like a PC, it doesn't just get better out of thin air.
I understand a lot of the logistics of ship building and what not are handwaved for simplicity's sake, but I think by making BP a physical construct they have to earn/find instead of a thing that just happens, for one it's more immersive. I think it also adds another level of depth to the party's decision making when deciding on what side quests to go on. Do they do job A and get paid in lots of credits, or do they do Job B and get paid in BP, with both jobs having loot potential. Do we need to be better outfitted, or does the ship need an upgrade?
The idea of ship credits sounds like basically a more complex solutions version than what I came up with, that being that BP are basically a unique form of UPB which are preconfigured for large design spaces such as Starships. Building Polymers. Naturally scrap and any machinable wreckage that can be used to upgrade ships would have a converted BP value. But this way, you can do a job for someone and get paid in BP. As a physical construct, it would be about the size of an iron drum and weigh 10 bulk. If a ship is going to carry spare BP in either actual BP or usable scrap, they need a cargo bay.
BP would have a converted credit cost of 1000 credits per BP (price tentative) if the party wants to sell, but buying BP is virtually impossible. it's usually mass produced by ship Foundries who use them for ship building projects. Independent BP Foundries are rare. Given the use and expense of BP foundries sell them only in packs of 50, primarily to industrial sectors and major corporations. They will only sell to individuals who present a writ expressing intent to use the BP, and have the credits up front to cover the cost. So the primary way of earning BP for the party would be to find it raw, recover it from scrap, or earn it doing a favor for an NPC. Basically, they'd have to get the BP by adventuring, rather than buying their way into a better ship. If the party actually manages to save up the 50 thou and want to spend it on BP instead of better gear, they're welcome to it.
As for use of BP, it could be used as a trade good, or used to upgrade ships as normal. It's assumed that the shipbuilders skim some of the BP cost ( so if, say, an item in the book says it costs 8 BP, it's actually 5 BP and the ship builders take 3 as payment that they can use on other projects) though if the party wants to hold onto that skimmed BP, they can instead pay that converted cost.
I would also say for PCs that want to build their own ship, they can do so with a successful engineering check = 10+ship's tier+ BP cost of that particular part. When it comes to the ship's frame, the engineer must have at least as many ranks in engineering as the tier of the ship they are building. Success means they do so in a 1d6 days x every 5 BP in the part's Cost. Having multiple engineers assisting with this check divides that time by the number of engineers. This means a solo engineer could build himself a Starfighter in maybe a month, while it would take a dedicated team to build say a medium freighter in the same time period.
Tl;Dr, basically I make BP s physical thing my players can find /get paid in / pay others with, but make outright buying it prohibitively expensive, and building your ship on your own take a really long time.
I feel like the crit effect would not be justified by the increased weight, cost, ilvl, and reduced range compared to similar weapons.its damage is the same, and it's worse in virtually every other way. There are small arms And grenades that are comparable to the crit effect in the same level range.
At that point if the gun wasn't one handed, there would be zero appeal as a player short of "OMG Sarenrae!!!" *spoons the gun at night, paints sarenrae's face on it*...
Nope. The thing has 5 less resistance minimum of Zero. I think it was written to keep you from dealing more damage to something with fire resistance 3 than fire resistance 5.
If that was the intent, then they really botched the wording. They could have just written " Reduce Energy Resistance by 5, (minimum zero) against your attacks against EAC." Though even that seems unnecessary since I've never heard of negative Energy Resistance.
Honestly, given the name of the ability, and the way it's worded, I think how we read it ( ER reduction only if the ER prevented the attack from doing damage) may be the intent. Hence unstoppable strikes.
ER Fire 20 monster soaks a 18 damage fire attack.
Soldier: Cocky aren't ya? You think you can stop me?!
Unstoppable Strikes kicks in, Soldier does 3 Fire damage
Soldier: That's right! My strikes are Unstoppable, baby!
I think that was the fantasy they had in mind with this ability, though as we have already mentioned repeatedly, that would be extremely underwhelming, unpredictable in effectiveness and situationally useful at best. I don't know why they didn't just say "Your energy attacks bypass 5 of your opponent's ER" as that would be more consistent and useful. Maybe they wanted to maintain the paradigm that kinetic attacks are generally more dangerous/harder to pull off but more rewarding, whereas energy attacks are easier/safer but do less damage compared to similar KAC weapons. (At least, that's the paradigm from my point of view, especially since from my experience enemies seem to have ER or Immunities more often than they have DR.)
They may have tried to balance this ability to be a utility for energy users without changing the paradigm, and as a result overbalanced it into something virtually unusable.