SFS and the COM


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5/5 5/55/55/5

The Biohackers Genetics inhibitor apparently needs a big clarification before people get excited and start injecting liquid magnesium into people so they take 150% damage from lasers.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

BigNorseWolf wrote:
The Biohackers Genetics inhibitor apparently needs a big clarification before people get excited and start injecting liquid magnesium into people so they take 150% damage from lasers.

I hope we get that one, and a couple of others as soon as possible. It was pretty silly when one of my playtest players used this option with that particular interpretation of the effects.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
The Biohackers Genetics inhibitor apparently needs a big clarification before people get excited and start injecting liquid magnesium into people so they take 150% damage from lasers.
I hope we get that one, and a couple of others as soon as possible. It was pretty silly when one of my playtest players used this option with that particular interpretation of the effects.

I don't think I've seen the other interpretation independently arise unless people were talking with people. In the playtest the language was the same , and every mention of the genetics inhibitor I could find was under the impression that that that's how it works.


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VampByDay wrote:
Aw man! I had a character who was going to use that ! It wasn’t even gonna be broken or anything! He was going to reflavor it as switching from tai-chi style martial arts to praying mantis. (All rules would have been kept mechanically the same.)

As someone who practices Qī Xīng Táng Láng Quán(Seven Star Praying Mantis Boxing), I salute you.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
The Biohackers Genetics inhibitor apparently needs a big clarification before people get excited and start injecting liquid magnesium into people so they take 150% damage from lasers.
I hope we get that one, and a couple of others as soon as possible. It was pretty silly when one of my playtest players used this option with that particular interpretation of the effects.

The iconic has genetics field of study and the iconic encounter story shows her using a biohack to boost acid damage against a creature that isn’t resistant.

It really does work that way. Knocking a round off the lives of HP sacks isn’t the end of the world.

5/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.

First, definitely thanks to Thurston and the team.

Second, Dragonbot's build is partially based around Ring of Fangs and having a bite attack with Nanite Corruption. I got Raw Lethality and Improved Unarmed Strike specifically to enhance it. I was actually pretty happy with the Rules Forum resolution this got, so I'm a little surprised it got axed from Society.

Finally, a little disappointed with some of the COM stuff that didn't make it. All of the Envoy stuff that I actually wanted to use died on the vine. Envoys need all the help they can get...at least Melophile mystics won't be around to do everything better? I get Qi Adept not making the cut...the style needs more editing than a Stephen King novel... but I won't lie; I wanted to shoot hadokens.

Dark Archive 4/5 ** Venture-Agent, Finland—Tampere

I was gonna make my con boon Embri a envoy with mysticism expertise and noble scion theme in order for them to be Speaker who faked their mystic abilities, but noble scion theme isn't legal so have to figure out better theme I guess :'D

Kinda sad even if I understand it, I mean it DOES give you free money even if its for flavor stuff like social events and fancy clothing

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Indiana—Southern

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I'm honestly surprised that the Esotericist archetype is legal for play at all given how powerful so many of its abilities are, and how much they affect action economy.

Level 2:
- Magical Devotion is pretty powerful and already not legal for SFS.
- Spellshield Technique is also rather powerful. It effectively gives a level 2 character the Focused Spellcaster feat that normally requires a character to be level 10 (able to cast 4th level spells) plus a prerequisite feat (Combat Casting).

Level 6:
- Enigmatic Nullification allows a reaction (plus resolve and a spell slot of your highest level) to counterspell. Given that this replaces/delays a connection power (Mystic), cache capacitor (Technomancer), or alternate outcome (Witchwarper), that's a potentially amazing trade (IMHO less so for the Witchwarper than the other two).

Level 9:
- Enigmatic Retribution could allow a character to throw out multiple spells in a single turn, either following dispel magic, or maybe even stacking with Enigmatic Nullification (as both are reactions I don't think that works, but the language in Retribution makes it seem like the author(s) intended them to be used together).

As far as I can tell, Esotericist is also the only archetype in all of Starfinder (to-date) that makes all alternate class features optional, rather than required.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

Xenocrat wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
The Biohackers Genetics inhibitor apparently needs a big clarification before people get excited and start injecting liquid magnesium into people so they take 150% damage from lasers.
I hope we get that one, and a couple of others as soon as possible. It was pretty silly when one of my playtest players used this option with that particular interpretation of the effects.

The iconic has genetics field of study and the iconic encounter story shows her using a biohack to boost acid damage against a creature that isn’t resistant.

It really does work that way. Knocking a round off the lives of HP sacks isn’t the end of the world.

You have two options: insist that you may be technically correct and pin all your hopes on it, or wait and see if it turns up in the clarifications.


Lau Bannenberg wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
The Biohackers Genetics inhibitor apparently needs a big clarification before people get excited and start injecting liquid magnesium into people so they take 150% damage from lasers.
I hope we get that one, and a couple of others as soon as possible. It was pretty silly when one of my playtest players used this option with that particular interpretation of the effects.

The iconic has genetics field of study and the iconic encounter story shows her using a biohack to boost acid damage against a creature that isn’t resistant.

It really does work that way. Knocking a round off the lives of HP sacks isn’t the end of the world.

You have two options: insist that you may be technically correct and pin all your hopes on it, or wait and see if it turns up in the clarifications.

I know I’m correct, I’m just trying to share enlightenment.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
The Biohackers Genetics inhibitor apparently needs a big clarification before people get excited and start injecting liquid magnesium into people so they take 150% damage from lasers.
I hope we get that one, and a couple of others as soon as possible. It was pretty silly when one of my playtest players used this option with that particular interpretation of the effects.
I don't think I've seen the other interpretation independently arise unless people were talking with people. In the playtest the language was the same , and every mention of the genetics inhibitor I could find was under the impression that that that's how it works.

Well I reported the feedback from the playtest, but the language did not change significantly, having an entire party use the same energy type (in this case it ended up as acid) really showcased how bonkers that version of the ability would be.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

CorvusMask wrote:

I was gonna make my con boon Embri a envoy with mysticism expertise and noble scion theme in order for them to be Speaker who faked their mystic abilities, but noble scion theme isn't legal so have to figure out better theme I guess :'D

Kinda sad even if I understand it, I mean it DOES give you free money even if its for flavor stuff like social events and fancy clothing

I suspect that the free money was not the problem here, but that the Personal Retainer is something that SFS usually does differently via hireling.


The biggest thank you to Thirsty and everyone who made this happen, cant wait to start making all the fun new characters I have up my sleeve going forward, cant begin to say how excited I am!

Sad to see the Wrathful Warrior and Qi Adept didnt make it, and surprised Grifter didnt, especially since Jack of All Trades operatives can already make all profession checks untrained,and with a bonus to boot.

Again super psyched to dive in to these new classes!

The Exchange 4/5 5/5

Mike Bramnik wrote:
I'm honestly surprised that the Esotericist archetype is legal for play at all given how powerful so many of its abilities are, and how much they affect action economy.

The esotericist is an interesting archetype with some powerful abilities but they don't actually mess with the action economy all that much. The esotericist features are mostly 1/day but the class feature you give up to get an esotericist ability is usually either continuous (a skill bonus) or adds options (spells known).

Add in the "only specific schools" limitations on a lot of the abilities and the esotericist abilities are very rarely going to change an encounter's overall flow.

I am surprised/annoyed at the Spellshield Technique ability. My technomancer would happily give up his 2nd-level magical hack to have Focused Spellcaster 8 levels early (and not have to take Combat Casting).


Cool, that was a lot of work to update and I appreciate it. I was happy to see most of the racial options make it in fact.

I don't care but I always wonder why things like below get banned:

Unveil Reality [Witchwarper Paradigm Shift]
Multi-Weapon Versatility [Feat Boost]
Quick Trick [Alternate Class Feature]

More of just a mental exercise for me but I couldn't figure out why these were so much stronger than say a baseline full BAB Soldier attacking normally for their level. I like to look at the recent Society games I have played or run and try and figure out would it really make a difference?

The Exchange 4/5 5/5

The option I'm most disappointed didn't make the cut is Enhanced Communalism. My "teamwork, yay!" shirren would have loved it.

I get it, though. A reroll is quite powerful and many PCs have far more resolve points than they do abilities that require spending resolve points.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Uetur wrote:

Cool, that was a lot of work to update and I appreciate it. I was happy to see most of the racial options make it in fact.

I don't care but I always wonder why things like below get banned:

Unveil Reality [Witchwarper Paradigm Shift]
Multi-Weapon Versatility [Feat Boost]
Quick Trick [Alternate Class Feature]

More of just a mental exercise for me but I couldn't figure out why these were so much stronger than say a baseline full BAB Soldier attacking normally for their level. I like to look at the recent Society games I have played or run and try and figure out would it really make a difference?

Quick Trick kinda removes the only weakness of the class (not being able to do a trick attack if you are staggered) and as written it still allowed you to move and attack as a standard action. That might have been too much.

Personally not having Quick Trick, makes Marked for Death slightly less oppressive.


Sebastian Hirsch wrote:


Quick Trick kinda removes the only weakness of the class (not being able to do a trick attack if you are staggered) and as written it still allowed you to move and attack as a standard action. That might have been too much.

Quick trick also allows you to get your swift action back, for the few who have a decent use for that. It's a clear action economy bonus in return for a slower speed, one that I think many players would and should prefer.

5/5

Yeah, Quick Trick is insanely good. I'm glad it didn't make SFS because it would just end up part of literally every operative's build, and Operatives don't need the help right now.


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Oh, surprise rounds! That's the other big, big quick trick advantage.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

As written, quick trick doesn't actually take away the movement part of trick attack. So while in theory you lose some speed, in practice you get it back by having an extra move action. And you basically get Spring Attack/Shot on the Run for free. And quickdrawing weapons becomes compatible with trick attack. Also, situations where you need to open doors as a swift/move action, or stand up from prone. I mean, you could just stand up, do a trick attack, drop prone again and reap the AC benefits against ranged attacks.

It's so broken in sooo many different ways.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Dracomicron wrote:
Yeah, Quick Trick is insanely good. I'm glad it didn't make SFS because it would just end up part of literally every operative's build, and Operatives don't need the help right now.

I don't see what it's that good for.

You get your swift action back.. but operatives don't have good swift actions.

It lets you tumble during a trick attack?

1/5 5/55/5 ** Venture-Agent, Online—VTT

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Getting the swift action back will often be a small thing. You'll be able to draw appropriate weapons more easily with a feat, fusion, or armor mod. Fall prone. Get up with a feat or ysokihood. Switch on/off some fusions.

But you also get a move action back, and that is a much bigger deal. You can intimidate (with a feat), move (before or after your attack), tumble, hide (making cloaking field much better), greater feint (so that your debilitating doesn't need to be flat-footed), build a barricade (also with a feat), etc.

5/5

Trick Attack being a full action that isn't compatible with other move/swift actions or drawing weapons is literally the only thing I hear most operative players complain about. Talk about first world problems.

5/5 5/55/55/5

HammerJack wrote:


But you also get a move action back, and that is a much bigger deal. You can intimidate (with a feat), move (before or after your attack), tumble, hide (making cloaking field much better), greater feint (so that your debilitating doesn't need to be flat-footed), build a barricade (also with a feat), etc.

You kinda sort of have your move action already, its just lock in.. well with the action so common they named the action for it (moving)

The cloaking field... ok, yeah. THATS a combo worthy of the banhammer. Good job spotting the cloaked operative. :)

1/5 5/55/5 ** Venture-Agent, Online—VTT

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Also note that with quick trick, you still have the movement baked in to trick attack, IN ADDITION to the now unlocked move action, so it ishould a full move action gained, not just more options with the one you sort of had.

5/5

HammerJack wrote:
Also note that with quick trick, you still have the movement baked in to trick attack, IN ADDITION to the now unlocked move action, so it ishould a full move action gained, not just more options with the one you sort of had.

That's how I read it, too. I couldn't believe my eyes.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

BigNorseWolf wrote:
HammerJack wrote:


But you also get a move action back, and that is a much bigger deal. You can intimidate (with a feat), move (before or after your attack), tumble, hide (making cloaking field much better), greater feint (so that your debilitating doesn't need to be flat-footed), build a barricade (also with a feat), etc.

You kinda sort of have your move action already, its just lock in.. well with the action so common they named the action for it (moving)

The cloaking field... ok, yeah. THATS a combo worthy of the banhammer. Good job spotting the cloaked operative. :)

And also Marked for Death...

3/5 5/55/5

Kevin Willis wrote:

The option I'm most disappointed didn't make the cut is Enhanced Communalism. My "teamwork, yay!" shirren would have loved it.

I get it, though. A reroll is quite powerful and many PCs have far more resolve points than they do abilities that require spending resolve points.

Same! My pacifist Dr. Doolittle of a Shirren Envoy would have loved it. But being able to give away rerolls like that would be incredibly strong.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Indiana—Southern

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Kevin Willis wrote:
Mike Bramnik wrote:
I'm honestly surprised that the Esotericist archetype is legal for play at all given how powerful so many of its abilities are, and how much they affect action economy.

The esotericist is an interesting archetype with some powerful abilities but they don't actually mess with the action economy all that much. The esotericist features are mostly 1/day but the class feature you give up to get an esotericist ability is usually either continuous (a skill bonus) or adds options (spells known).

Add in the "only specific schools" limitations on a lot of the abilities and the esotericist abilities are very rarely going to change an encounter's overall flow.

I am surprised/annoyed at the Spellshield Technique ability. My technomancer would happily give up his 2nd-level magical hack to have Focused Spellcaster 8 levels early (and not have to take Combat Casting).

My eyes must have glazed past the "one school" bit, so I will withdraw my comments on those powers, but yea, we're still on the same page regarding the Spellshield Technique.

5/55/55/5

Uetur wrote:

Cool, that was a lot of work to update and I appreciate it. I was happy to see most of the racial options make it in fact.

I don't care but I always wonder why things like below get banned:

Unveil Reality [Witchwarper Paradigm Shift]
Multi-Weapon Versatility [Feat Boost]
Quick Trick [Alternate Class Feature]

Stack Multi-Weapon Versatility with Multi-Weapon Fighting and Finesse Striker. Later add Twinned Threat. Can get sort of nasty.

Currently abusing this with a raxalite samurai in a home campaign. Fun to have the 16" tall plant be the tank of the party.


Comfortably Dumb wrote:
Uetur wrote:

Cool, that was a lot of work to update and I appreciate it. I was happy to see most of the racial options make it in fact.

I don't care but I always wonder why things like below get banned:

Unveil Reality [Witchwarper Paradigm Shift]
Multi-Weapon Versatility [Feat Boost]
Quick Trick [Alternate Class Feature]

Stack Multi-Weapon Versatility with Multi-Weapon Fighting and Finesse Striker. Later add Twinned Threat. Can get sort of nasty.

Currently abusing this with a raxalite samurai in a home campaign. Fun to have the 16" tall plant be the tank of the party.

Did you houserule the raxalite LFAN to provide more than one hand or misread it? Normally they can only wield a single one handed weapon.

5/55/55/5

Xenocrat wrote:


Did you houserule the raxalite LFAN to provide more than one hand or misread it? Normally they can only wield a single one handed weapon.

That's one plausible interpretation with the wording of LFAN Symbiosis (and a very basic knowledge of physics and biology). LFAN itself, however, doesn't make that requirement.

Either way, though, it's a pretty loose home campaign... and another reason why we'll never see raxalite in SFS.


Comfortably Dumb wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:


Did you houserule the raxalite LFAN to provide more than one hand or misread it? Normally they can only wield a single one handed weapon.

That's one plausible interpretation with the wording of LFAN Symbiosis (and a very basic knowledge of physics and biology). LFAN itself, however, doesn't make that requirement.

It sure does!

Quote:

LFAN (Ex) An LFAN, or Lifting Floret Activation Network, is a biotech augmentation that looks like a cluster oartificial, prehensile “vines” attached to a raxilite’brain system (the raxilite can add one other braiaugmentation to the LFAN). The LFAN is as dexterous and strong as a human hand, and the vines can extend and retract, allowing a raxilite to use one-handed items as if they were a Medium creature with a reach of 5 feet.

LFAN Symbiosis (Ex) When two or more raxilites share thsame 5-foot space, they can use their LFANs togetherallowing them to handle larger objects. Up to four raxilitecan work together in this way, each acting as one hand.

One LFAN = "a" human hand that obviously can't use two-handed items (or more than a single one-handed items), LFAN Symbiosis equals one hand per raxilite. Symbiosis is just adding up the individual hands of the raxelites and letting them cooperate, it doesn't add or subtract from the sum of individual hands.

This deserves a separate thread in the main forum if you disagree.

Shadow Lodge 5/5 5/55/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East

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Not so much an organized play thing, but I'm disapointed that Stunt & Strike doesn't have any Stunts for Sense Motive.

5/55/55/5

Xenocrat wrote:


This deserves a separate thread in the main forum if you disagree.

I honestly fail to care enough to compare interpretations for a home campaign and a race that will never see SFS play.

Feel free to get an official ruling if you feel it deserves one.

5/55/5

I’m a little late to the party but I have to say after spending all weekend and all day today coming up with a character concept, I was very disappointed to find out that neither Qi adept nor wrathful warrior are society legal.

1/5 5/55/5 ** Venture-Agent, Online—VTT

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Qi adept being legal would have been shocking, since it was impossible to run a number of their abilities before errata was added, due to missing rules.

5/5

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I would love to play a Qi Adept in Society, and post errata they seem to work, but needing that much errata to approach playability doesn't bode well for their inclusion.

Wrathful Warrior is simply not balanced very well.

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