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As asked for by James Jacobs, and to avoid clogging up the Gnoll thread: what Ancestries do you hope to see soon, and why?
Top of my list is Androids, as Numeria is one of my favorite weird unique corners of the setting, and there isn’t any easy way to represent them currently other than playing them as humans and ignoring all the construct/synthetic elements of them.
Beyond that, I want the more common Ancestries of regions beyond the Inner Sea; Southern Garund gives us Anadi and non-hostile Gnolls (as well as catfolk, lizardfolk, and orcs, who are already on their way), Arcadia has populations of Wyrwoods and Shifters, and I’m sure Tian Xia (which I’m less familiar with) has some interesting cultures too.
Last one is a more practical ask: geniekin! The elemental planetouched fit into so many easy stories across the setting, and are super useful for homebrew worlds, too.
What about all of you?
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For races that were previously in PF1, I'd love to see Changelings (built in story-hook), Kitsune (major eastern mythological race), Kobolds (love the small dragon-ish guys), and Tieflings.
However, I'd also love to see more focus on some monstrous races that were hard to do in PF1 due to some of the size rules - exploring tiny races like a Pixie/Sprite or a large sized race like Centaurs or Minotaurs. In particular, I'd love to see a Lamia (snake) race.
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For races that were previously in PF1, I'd love to see Changelings (built in story-hook), Kitsune (major eastern mythological race), Kobolds (love the small dragon-ish guys), and Tieflings.
However, I'd also love to see more focus on some monstrous races that were hard to do in PF1 due to some of the size rules - exploring tiny races like a Pixie/Sprite or a large sized race like Centaurs or Minotaurs. In particular, I'd love to see a Lamia (snake) race.
Kobolds and Tiefs are both in the APG.
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Some planetouched they didn't do much with in 1e. Aphorites and Ganzi, as well as a planetouched people connected to the dreamlands/dimension of dreams and ones connected to the dimension of time.
Or really, a lot of the ancestries introduced in bestiaries and not expanded upon much. Rougarou, Shabti, Astomoi, Orang Pendak, etc.
Some monsters that make good PCs but had racial HD before, like Locathah.
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Grippli
We must gain frog as well as lizard.
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Grippli
We must gain frog as well as lizard.
They share a nation with Iruxi down in Southern Garund.
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Tengu as my favourite race would ordinarily be at the top of my list. However I have to instead echo the request for Skinwalkers first. I was never a fan of skinwalkers in Golarion, but in Eberron the race is an absolutely perfect representation of shifters!
So my vote is: Skinwalkers THEN Tengu.
Avoiding the obvious planar scions that were announced, I really want the shadowfolk, Wayang and Kayal, back.
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My primary request would be the return of all of the elemental planetouched. Then ratfolk and Tengu.
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IMHO, Paizo missed a really rich opportunity.
By replacing the colonialist notion of "race" with the more egalitarian notion of "ancestry", they could have gone as far as to offer specific ancestries for Varisians, Shoanti, Vudran and other human ancestries.
This would have put the notion of "race" to bed. Instead, we are left with the idea that race = ancestry.
I realize this is unlikely to change, but it's unfortunate all the same.
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The biggies would most likely be things that were popular in PF1; the various 'mostly human' races (but doable for other base ancestries, all the plane touched, dhampir, changelings etc. Also kitsune, ratfolk and tengu. Maybe a few of the weirder PF1 races too, like Ghorans and some aliens for adventures elsewhere in the solar system, lashunta, kasatha, triaxian, etc.
Beyond that, I'd kind of like some more non-human ancestries. But I'm concerned about how things will balance with the current ancestry system. I don't want watered down things that kind of resemble the base creature. For example, a strix that can't fly from level 1, isn't a strix. Some kind of sentient ooze creature could be fun, and it's an unfilled niche. Mezlans are really cool, but are a bit high-powered for a playable ancestry, and again run into the watered down problem. Appallies might be doable, but being amorphous is a problem.
Also, it needs to be said, flumph. And I'm not really joking (much) on that either. They're fun, they're friendly, they're all sorts of weird. All big pluses. The PF1 Kineticist writeup always reminded me of flumphs by mentioning "or a grasping appendage" when referring to having a free hand.
And while I'm being a bit on the silly side, skittermanders. Maybe the Divinity had a population of them onboard and they were recently set loose and are now out to help an entire world of nufriends?
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IMHO, Paizo missed a really rich opportunity.
By replacing the colonialist notion of "race" with the more egalitarian notion of "ancestry", they could have gone as far as to offer specific ancestries for Varisians, Shoanti, Vudran and other human ancestries.
This would have put the notion of "race" to bed. Instead, we are left with the idea that race = ancestry.
I realize this is unlikely to change, but it's unfortunate all the same.
I hope you can see why giving mechanical differences to ethnic groups would be a dicey idea at best. God help you if one got an adjustment either way to Intelligence.
Honestly, I really love 2e’s whole “Ancestry is your species, Heritage is your more narrow permutation of that, and then ethnicity is a non-mechanical layer on top of that.” Eberron has used a similar approach for ages.
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Clearly, we need Beings of Ib ancestry! It could be the token unique ancestry as an extinct species :D
...Okay, but seriously(I'm sure we aren't getting ALL 1e races back as ancestries. Because if nothing else, I'd be surprised if Beings of Ib returned as playable once again), I'm already getting tengu back in advanced player's guide so that is great. Besides those, grippli, gnolls, more reptilian ancestries(iruxi can't be the ONLY reptilian people in the world. And kobolds are dragon people, that doesn't count). Oh and wyvarans, wyrwood, kasatha and trox, I want dem back even if two of them are more heavily featured in starfinder now.
Locathans and other aquatic ancestries should come back too :D (sahuagin could be nice too, 1e did get adaros and grindylow from the evil aquatic monster groups, but sahuagins are needed for full evil aquatic party)
I guess more monstrous ancestries like gargoyles or centaurs could be cool. Girtablilu would be pretty unique one :D Maybe even harpies? Kappa maybe? What about minotaurs? Mongrelme-
...But yeah, I'll stop myself before I list all monstrous humanoids :P
Clearly, we need Beings of Ib ancestry! It could be the token unique ancestry as an extinct species :D
...Okay, but seriously(I'm sure we aren't getting ALL 1e races back as ancestries. Because if nothing else, I'd be surprised if Beings of Ib returned as playable once again), I'm already getting tengu back in advanced player's guide so that is great. Besides those, grippli, gnolls, more reptilian ancestries(iruxi can't be the ONLY reptilian people in the world. And kobolds are dragon people, that doesn't count). Oh and wyvarans, wyrwood, kasatha and trox, I want dem back even if two of them are more heavily featured in starfinder now.
Locathans and other aquatic ancestries should come back too :D (sahuagin could be nice too, 1e did get adaros and grindylow from the evil aquatic monster groups, but sahuagins are needed for full evil aquatic party)
I guess more monstrous ancestries like gargoyles or centaurs could be cool. Girtablilu would be pretty unique one :D Maybe even harpies? Kappa maybe? What about minotaurs? Mongrelme-
...But yeah, I'll stop myself before I list all monstrous humanoids :P
Post-Iron Gods, isn’t there a small kasatha community in Numeria now?
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I love Cecaelias and super-friendly entirely shameless doofy octopus lady is the one PC I will never get tired of RPing.
Plus of all the aquatic people, they have least trouble getting around on land and their innate curiosity justifies them going pretty much anywhere.
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IMHO, Paizo missed a really rich opportunity.
By replacing the colonialist notion of "race" with the more egalitarian notion of "ancestry", they could have gone as far as to offer specific ancestries for Varisians, Shoanti, Vudran and other human ancestries.
This would have put the notion of "race" to bed. Instead, we are left with the idea that race = ancestry.
I realize this is unlikely to change, but it's unfortunate all the same.
I hope you can see why giving mechanical differences to ethnic groups would be a dicey idea at best. God help you if one got an adjustment either way to Intelligence.
Honestly, I really love 2e’s whole “Ancestry is your species, Heritage is your more narrow permutation of that, and then ethnicity is a non-mechanical layer on top of that.” Eberron has used a similar approach for ages.
Yes, I would expect human ethnicities wouldn't impact the distribution of stats. But they might offer additional ancestry options (like the varieties of other races) or a different selection of ancestry feats, depending on if your character comes from Mwangi, Vudra, the Shoanti tribes of the Storval plateau and like that.
This is something we might see in future publications, but I wouldn't expect to see it in the first wave of supplements that have already gone or will soon go to the presses.
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Oh, here’s something not in the lore yet: antelope people. They’re such pretty animals and you could toss them into the Mwangi Expanse!
...it would be especially cool if they were centaurs, but only if they didn’t have human heads, which always weird me out.
I hope you can see why giving mechanical differences to ethnic groups would be a dicey idea at best. God help you if one got an adjustment either way to Intelligence.
While ability modifiers would have been quite offensive, Paizo could have (and Paizo still can and possibly has in their latest book(s)) definitely hand out ancestry feats that align with a particular culture. That's what most of the ancestry feats actually represent. Culture. Rather than your physical species.
Eberron has used a similar approach for ages.
Funny you should say that. I have a slightly different interpretation on how to best represent Eberron's ancestries and cultures.
Post-Iron Gods, isn’t there a small kasatha community in Numeria now?
I don't remember that being singled out as notable with our conclusion of Iron Gods. So.... maybe? It wasn't the most notable thing to happen in that campaign ;)
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Oh, here’s something not in the lore yet: antelope people. They’re such pretty animals and you could toss them into the Mwangi Expanse!
...it would be especially cool if they were centaurs, but only if they didn’t have human heads, which always weird me out.
Until then, antelope Satyrs/Faun :3
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We need playable anadi like yesterday. I'm hoping the anadi character in Hellknight Hill is foreshadowing their introduction as a playable race.
I made a thread about this the other day! JJ said they were in but cut for space.
IMHO, Paizo missed a really rich opportunity.
By replacing the colonialist notion of "race" with the more egalitarian notion of "ancestry", they could have gone as far as to offer specific ancestries for Varisians, Shoanti, Vudran and other human ancestries.
This would have put the notion of "race" to bed. Instead, we are left with the idea that race = ancestry.
I realize this is unlikely to change, but it's unfortunate all the same.
I couldn't agree more. I'm bored by PFS tables looking like circuses with all kinds of humanoids, and rarely just a single human (unless I'm bringing it to the table). Having multiple human ancestries would make humans more sexy.
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Anandi. (I'd also like some PF1 variations...)
Changelings. (Not least because my group has a bunch they want to convert- and also because now the door's open to have males, which lets me do some conceptual tinkering). Could maybe be cooked up as a heritage, a la half-orc and half-elf, which would save some space.
Androids.
Charau-Ka/Boggards/various other demon-happy jerkwads.
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Fetchlings and a Cthulhu inspired race (James Jacobs mentioned the Yaddithians but their origins are a bit meh since they chalk it up to aliens basically).
Some kind of abberational touched ancestry akin to tales from Lovecraft would make for cool story arcs over the course of a characters career in the ancestry Feats.
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Regarding the idea of ethnicity-as-ancestry, that idea is already somewhat being implemented in the Lost Omens Character Guide through ethnicity-specific ancestry feats.
Kinda literally asking for a friend here - Rougarou (the not-quite-werewolves from Bestiary 6), kitsune and gnolls (as confirmed as those are already).
For myself, while I'm not sure if anything like this exists in established lore (or if such a request is appropriate for this thread), but the pitch is that of "vibrantly-colored bird people". Most birdfolk in D&D tend to be based on things like crows and ravens or maybe eagles (the trifecta of tengu, kenku and aarakocra) and thus aren't exactly sparkling with color, but it would be interesting to have an ancestry that takes inspiration from toucans or peacocks or parrots.
A good addition to the eventual south Garund region, me thinks.
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I need Androids and Drow for my group to even consider switching to 2e.
I'd like a straight up playable Robot "ancestry".
Hell, bring out Androids and give them a cyborg and robot heritage.
And this last bit is not going to be very helpful to this question, but my advice is to just bring out the existing 1e races as fast as you can.
That is one of the biggest things needed to get 1e players that are iffy about switching on board asap. (The other being the classes of course.)
Even if it's just a collected houserule version of all the previous stuff by the designers, it will get people playing and invested in the new system sooner rather than later, IMO.
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As we are getting Lizards already (finally!), my top choices(in no particular order) are:
Genie-kin
Minotaurs
Kitsune
An intelligent undead (think Forsaken from WoW)
and last but certainly not least,
Kobolds.
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I would really like to see some non-humanoid monstrous race (dragon?).
I would really like to see some non-humanoid monstrous race (dragon?).
A Council of Wyrms-esqe book would be great for something like that.
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I'd be willing to buy an entire book dedicated to elves. Also for dwarves.
I still want to see Minotaur, Ogre/Giantkin, Troll, any and all large races that never were touched in 3.5 due to weapon size issues.
I favor seeing ancestries for Planar species, now rebranded as Planar Scions. So Tiefling, Aasimar and all their subflavors, Fetchlings, Sylph, Oreads, Ifrit, and Undines. More mixed ancestry options would be nice as well. Descended from Dragons or other mystical creatures. I think Half-Breeds would need to be kept aside for something more like templates as they should be a little more powerful than your more watered down breeds.
I'd love a centaur that's actually playable.
I'm throwing my hat into the ring for a plant humanoid. We haven't seen one, and with the Sylvari from Guild Wars 2 being so popular, I think it's time.
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I need Androids and Drow for my group to even consider switching to 2e.
Rather than being a separate ancestry - I'm kinda hoping that Drow become a heritage for elves with their own unique ancestry feats.
Also, considering how popular Kitsune & Tengu seem to be - I'd love to see a playable Oni race to complete representation of the Nihon San Dai Aku Yōkai [The Three Great Evil Youkai of Japan, consisting of Tamamo-no-Mae (Kitsune), Emperor Sutoku (Tengu), and Shuten-douji (Oni)].
i want wolf/canidfolk and beyond that something unique, not something necessarily from mythology or older DnD, and that something shouldn't just be a recolored human with 'effects', i want something crazy.
you know beyond all this I just want a non-'humanoid' iconic. in that every iconic i can think of is basically a human, elf, dwarf or on the crazy end of the spectrum a dhampir or something(from 1e).
we just got a goblin iconic, now we just need a few more iconics that aren't 'basically' humans.
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i want wolf/canidfolk and beyond that something unique, not something necessarily from mythology or older DnD, and that something shouldn't just be a recolored human with 'effects', i want something crazy.
So ye want rougarou from 1e back, or are they not crazy enough?(they are wolf people with ability to transform into regular wolves as well)
i want wolf/canidfolk and beyond that something unique, not something necessarily from mythology or older DnD, and that something shouldn't just be a recolored human with 'effects', i want something crazy.So ye want rougarou from 1e back, or are they not crazy enough?(they are wolf people with ability to transform into regular wolves as well)
i would like a wolffolk in the same vein as catfolk existing, i'd prefer a race without weird supernatural abilities tbh.