To preface, I know that there are superhero-specific RPG systems out there, like Mutants and Masterminds, but neither my players nor I want to learn a new system, and Pathfinder offers such a wealth of player options that we can make great heroes and villains, themed around a fantasy world.
I'm making a homebrew fantasy city/world, but it uses the same races, monsters, and gods from Golarion, for ease of transition. It has somewhat advanced steam/clockwork/magi-tech technology, as well as magic. My players are making superheroes (some with the Vigilante class, and others with interesting blends of races and classes, like Oracle/Brawler, or a guy who's making basically Venom with Synthesist Summoner). As I, the GM, am in charge of populating the city they'll be defending with helpless civilians, tough thugs, and nefarious supervillains, I find that my greatest challenge is making these supervillains stand out as exceptional in a fantasy world where spellcasters are commonplace.
I already have a few ideas of my own (such as an orcish werecrocodile barbarian focused on grappling and "death-rolling", a gadget villain who uses a plethora of Wondrous items and rods and staves to steal and fight, and a mastermind Oracle with the Intruigue mystery), and I'm confident that I can make a pretty decent rogues gallery, but I wanted to reach out to other experienced players on the internet for other ideas that I wouldn't have thought of. (I made a similar post on Reddit not long ago, but where better to ask than on the Paizo boards?) The players want to be street-level heroes (like Daredevil or Spider-Man), rather than, like the Justice League, so I'm thinking of limiting my CR to around 14-16 maximum.
I would love to see your ideas, regardless of how cheesy or gritty they are (there's room for both at my table)! I don't mind builds that are obvious references (after all, I'm planning a special May the 4th session where they fight a black-armored Magus with a flaming red sword who uses Telekinetic Maneuver), but the more creative you are, the better. Any Paizo content is open: monsters, races, classes, templates, magic items, spells, feats, etc. If you can come up with a bit of backstory and a cheesy/awesome/appropriate villain name for them, all the better.
"I find that my greatest challenge is making these supervillains stand out as exceptional in a fantasy world where spellcasters are commonplace."
I think the problem is having spellcasters and such commonplace.
The key thing about the superhero genre is that superheroes (and villains) are dramatically more capable then the mundane people that inhabit their world.
If I was doing this, I'd basically level cap most of the mundanes (i.e. everyone that wasn't a PC or villain) in the world at maybe level 3 (although I'd give extra skill ranks/max ranks to some where it made sense) and thus have the PCs and Villians stand out a lot more. They can do things that others can't which is why they are considered 'super'.
That is an excellent point, Dave; maybe, then, it is the spellcasters and such that are the "supers" of the world.
Do you have any builds (spellcasters or otherwise) that could be a good fit for a supervillain in a world full of commoners, and who could challenge a team of other "supers?"
Any appropriate CR class or creature would work. In a world of only low level characters, a 10th level fighter would seem incredibly 'super' to them, able to mow down dozens of regular people with impunity. But he would be the same challenge to a PC party in this world as he would vs. a similar character level party in a standard fantasy world.
You might want to give him special flavor to make him seem unusual, but even that might not be necessary.
Also, I would go with the Automatic Bonus Progression rules from unchained so that money can't bonuses. That will make the 'supers' stats, AC and stuff superior to anyone they meet as well, and keep CR balanced so if you want to throw in a dragon as a super villain it will work out just fine.
Obviously in such a world 'monsters' must be a lot rarer than Golarion. If only a very few would be able to fight them, their must not be a lot around, or everyone would have been wiped out.
I appreciate the feedback, Dave. However, generalized advice isn't really what I asked for in my original post. If you have any specific ideas for villains, and therefore suggestions for builds (including race/class/feats/spells/templates/gimmicks), I'd love to hear them.
Doctor Troxxelerro!
Doctor Troxxelerro is a terrifying creature to behold - eight feet tall, six armed, a nightmarish mix of man and beetle, taking the worst qualities of both. But despite her monstrous appearance, the Doctor is no dumb brute - but is instead a brilliant Mad Scientist!
Her mastery of mutagenic bio-chemistry is unmatched - so naturally, she uses it to rob banks. Her strength is so immense that it's with laughable ease that she rips apart vault doors , and her unparalleled physical might lets her trivially trash even melee specialists! A fight with her will be a game of not letting her touch you, because one hit and it's over.
The build is simple enough - start with 18 STR, add 8 for being a trox, take a level of Barbarian, at least one level of Alchemist, and at least four levels of Brawler, for the knockout punch. At level six, she's rocking a nifty +12 STR mod before magic enhancements or enlarge person (which is on her spell list!). Maybe take Ability Focus: Knockout Punch for good measure. If she's already used her knockout punch (or someone wakes up after being hit) she grapples - with size, Trox, Brawler, and STR all boosting her grapple, there's little chance of someone breaking free. Perhaps be a vivisectionist for that lovely sneak attack. Or perhaps just tie them up and burrow away! Villains love taking prisoners.
Obviously, the more levels of Alchemist the more Mad Scientist flavor you get - but she works fine at level six, and there have to be some lesser threats in the city too. There's hardly a jail that could hold her, so perhaps after the PCs best her as a solo villain, she returns to face the higher level PCs alongside a team - or as someone's hired muscle!
You could stick the giant template on a quickling to get a super-speedy villain, who isn't the size of a toddler.
Or embrace the toddler-ness, and reflavor that spring-attacking fey as a murderous and larcenous six-year-old! Unchildlike children are always creepy.
AA, holy smokes those are both incredible ideas! I will definitely be including Doctor Troxxelerro in my game. Thank you!
Like I've said before, I want to see an unholy hybrid of Pathfinder 1st Edition with Mutants and Masterminds . . . and I want this to be Pathfinder 3rd Edition. Meanwhile, shortly before this, we need a SuperFinder . . . .
{. . .}
Also, I would go with the Automatic Bonus Progression rules from unchained so that money can't bonuses. That will make the 'supers' stats, AC and stuff superior to anyone they meet as well, and keep CR balanced so if you want to throw in a dragon as a super villain it will work out just fine.
{. . .}
Keep in mind that Supers worlds often have both superheroes and supervillains that are smart but otherwise ordinary people who use their skills and even gobs of money to make themselves effectively super-powered . . . .
I have a build for a Captain Cold character. And I think the theme would fit pretty well in your steampunk style world. He's a Gun Chemist with a couple levels of Trench Fighter, Phantom Thief Unchained Rogue, and one level of Musketeer Cavalier. I used the Frost Bomb Discovery to simulate the Cold Gun and Tanglefoot Bomb to simulate him icing someone's feet to the floor.
I admit, I'm not entirely sure how it plays out as I make more characters than I play in games.
There is one generalised question it'd help to answer though. What part of the superhero genre do you want to focus on? It's a noticeably larger genre than PF dungeon delving. Also whether there's a minimum level you're looking at as well as a maximum.
E.g. Would something like this be too hammy/over the top? "They eat our children and burn our bones. I hear my brothers, sisters and hermaphroditic siblings crying. Tonight the trees shall be LIBERATED!" (Treesinger druid, BTW)
Heather 540: That's a great build! I'd been thinking of what I wanted to do for the obligatory ice villain, and this fits nicely.
avr: I'm thinking of starting the players at 8th level, so that they're truly above the capabilities of normal people, and capping their level-ups at 12 or 13, so that they don't have to fight Galactus later in their careers just to pose a challenge. As for genre, I'm thinking mostly it will focus on unraveling criminal gangs and conspiracies, with the occasional silly "Saturday Morning Cartoon" villain thrown in to lighten the mood. And your suggestion of the druid is a great one; I was toying with the idea of an angry druid circle attacking the city, and I may use your quote verbatim for one of the more... enthusiastic members.
Scott Wilhelm: Cocoa Cola! Genius! Maybe they're rivals with Pep-in-your-stepsi, and have shadowy commerce wars over their respective secret formulas, complete with uniformed agents who go to outrageous (and maybe even deadly) lengths to win. And I loved the Tick cartoons! I should give them a watch again, I'm sure they'd be a goldmine of inspiration.
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I got a concept for a villain that's basically a fusion of Catwoman and Daredevil
Weaponmaster fighter;
whip mastery; advance weapon training feats (warrior spirit, focused weapon, trained grace), exotic heritage, improved eldritch heritage (deep earth), blind fight (or the trait that gives it to you) , blinded blade style, dodge, mobility, whirlwind attack
Make sure to get gloves of dueling
Use warrior spirit to add brilliant energy to the whip.
BRILLIANT ENERGY WHIP, WHIRLWIND ATTACK THREW WALLS, TREMORSENSE to find people
If they drink a potion of enlarge they could lock themselves in a room and attack everyone in the building (1 attack vs everyone within 30 ft in every direction ignore nonliving matter like walls and armor)
They could either reside inside someone's vault as protection against thieves, or just be renown for their ability to attack threw walls
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AA, holy smokes those are both incredible ideas! I will definitely be including Doctor Troxxelerro in my game. Thank you!
Fancy races (and monster races) that you normally would never allow a PC to play are ideal for this, like the aforementioned Trox and Quickling, or various flying races or those with other unusual abilities, such as a Doppleganger's mind-reading and shapechanging, an Aranea's web-throwing and wall climbing, etc. Even strapping some 'monster abilities' on an otherwise normal(ish) NPC, such as a vampire's ability to summon wolves and bat swarms, wall climbing and light sensitivity (but no other vampire powers) could make for a 'super' feeling character.
Another way to reach the same goal is to reflavor monsters as desired. A humanoid with the appearance of a red or black skinned 'tiefling,' but the mechanical stats of a (Nessian) hell hound (but able to wear armor and use weapons) could be one such example. A humanoid with the mechanical stats of a medium to large sized dragon would be scary...
Other monsters could work as listed, handwaving they can turn back to a human form. A greater shadow, specter or wraith makes a good 'life-stealing villain who can walk through walls.'
I got a concept for a villain that's basically a fusion of Catwoman and Daredevil
Weaponmaster fighter;
whip mastery; advance weapon training feats (warrior spirit, focused weapon, trained grace), exotic heritage, improved eldritch heritage (deep earth), blind fight (or the trait that gives it to you) , blinded blade style, dodge, mobility, whirlwind attackMake sure to get gloves of dueling
Use warrior spirit to add brilliant energy to the whip.
BRILLIANT ENERGY WHIP, WHIRLWIND ATTACK THREW WALLS, TREMORSENSE to find people
If they drink a potion of enlarge they could lock themselves in a room and attack everyone in the building (1 attack vs everyone within 30 ft in every direction ignore nonliving matter like walls and armor)
They could either reside inside someone's vault as protection against thieves, or just be renown for their ability to attack threw walls
That is an amazing concept! What a way to turn a whip into a deadly weapon! Thanks for sharing! I'll definitely get some mileage out of this build.
AA, holy smokes those are both incredible ideas! I will definitely be including Doctor Troxxelerro in my game. Thank you!Fancy races (and monster races) that you normally would never allow a PC to play are ideal for this, like the aforementioned Trox and Quickling, or various flying races or those with other unusual abilities, such as a Doppleganger's mind-reading and shapechanging, an Aranea's web-throwing and wall climbing, etc. Even strapping some 'monster abilities' on an otherwise normal(ish) NPC, such as a vampire's ability to summon wolves and bat swarms, wall climbing and light sensitivity (but no other vampire powers) could make for a 'super' feeling character.
Another way to reach the same goal is to reflavor monsters as desired. A humanoid with the appearance of a red or black skinned 'tiefling,' but the mechanical stats of a (Nessian) hell hound (but able to wear armor and use weapons) could be one such example. A humanoid with the mechanical stats of a medium to large sized dragon would be scary...
Other monsters could work as listed, handwaving they can turn back to a human form. A greater shadow, specter or wraith makes a good 'life-stealing villain who can walk through walls.'
Set, these are some good points. I particularly like the reflavored Nessian Hell Hound and Quickling ideas--a great way to approach the obligatory fire-themed and super-speed villains. Thanks!
I'm also trying to make a Flash. That's proving a LOT harder to do. I can't seem to find the right balance of making him run fast while not gimping his fighting ability.
When Keith Baker was mutated by cosmic radiation, greatly expanding the size of his brain, and granting him superhuman intelligence, he saw in himself the ability to change the world. Specifically, to clean it, because he's a supervillain and supervillains like cleaning things. He probably has a tragic backstory where his parents were killed by criminals, setting him up as a dark foil to the heroes, but whose willingness to cause suffering or inconvenience civilians in his vigilantic pursuits makes him more trouble than he's worth. Whatever his motives, he's a supergenius in a world where, if you're smart enough, you can can cast magic spells. So, after a quick stop at a costume store, Keith Baker reemerged as The Nefarious Neuromancer! To build, simply take a bog-standard Contemplative, add levels in Wizard or Psychic to your liking, and cook until done. Following the rules for adding class levels to monsters, he could easily have 28 intelligence before levels or magic - not bad for a criminal mastermind!
Despite The Nefarious Neuromancer's crazy-high DCs, I'd avoid save or lose spells - it'd be too easy to cause a party wipe with them. If I built him, I'd go Psychic to limit the spells available to him, and then focus on other mental abilities than charms and dominates, such as telekinesis, pain descriptor spells, teleportation and such. Possession is fair game, though, since it's less useful in battle (leaves a vulnerable body) and is more of a story element.
Some kind of telepath would be fun, maybe a mesmerist to do RingMaster like things?
If you allow 3rd party content, you should make a Chaotic Surge Wilder into a bad guy and roleplay him like Kefka from Final Fantasy VI :D
There's an occultist archetype, the psychodermist, which harvests body parts in order to get related magic abilities. People often object to those who harvest their relatives' body parts and this is a natural villain. The trappings of the warrior panoply for full BAB, legacy weapon (bane) and favored enemy humanoid (same subtype as the bane) have obvious synergy. They should probably use an ugly, gory weapon.
Given they can't bypass fire immunity and have trouble with SR I kind of suspect the writer thought Fire Nation kineticists should be NPCs. A kinetic whip with unravelling infusion should be plenty scary to PCs though. If they plan to work mainly in melee then the kinetic knight archetype and high Str & Con are worth considering even if normal kineticists are Dex/Con. Note that in general kineticists fit neatly into super descriptions.
A gadgeteer might be best represented by a vigilante with the psychometrist archetype. They 'create their own uncanny gadgets that seem to only work for them.'
Isnt there a mesmerist cult leader archetype? You could do something like the Brother Blood cult from Teen Titans.
These are all amazing ideas! It doesn't surprise me in the least that there are archetypes that I've never heard of before. I definitely came to the right place for inspiration!
You might want to take a look at the old Marvel Superheroes game that used the FACERIP system, it has lots of characters that might give you ideas.
Excellent suggestion, Nemesis! Thanks!
Barbarian or Bloodrager, VMC Oracle (Lame Curse), can start all that rage cycling goodness at level 10 with immunity to fatigue. Makes for a good bruiser.
Bloodrager (Blood Conduit), VMC Magus, gets a defensive Spellstrike and offensive Spellstrike. But needs to be pretty high level to get all his abilities, and even then is stuck with limited spells. Still makes for a good bully, although maybe not supervillain material.
Fighter (Mutagen Warrior/Opportunist), VMC Alchemist is another brute, but this one has bombs!
I was thinking about how to replicate Glory Girl (from Worm)’s powers (her force field in particular) in Pathfinder, and I think I’ve got it.
So, how Glory Girl’s Force field works is that there’s a near skintight shield around her that stops everything. Punches, bullets, bombs, Kaiju, lasers capable of destroying continents, nothing gets past it. The problem is, it only blocks one attack, before going offline and taking dangerous seconds to regenerate. After taking a solid punch, she’s vulnerable to being shot.
So! Crane Wing plus Deflect Arrows. But instead of describing it as “they deflect your attack”, describe it as an energy shield. Since it’d block the first hit of the round, regardless of respective strength, it’d make for an interesting puzzle boss; the players delay or ready actions to make sure their most damaging attacks are the ones that hit.
I’unno, am I the only person who thinks that sounds like a ton of fun?
Excellent suggestion, Nemesis! Thanks!
Making your PCs true heroes, having to foil a Nemesis plot...
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Here is my version of Psylocke.
Your Psylocke and Gambit builds in particular benefit from there being Archetypes that might as well be named 'be Psylocke' (Mindblade) and 'be Gambit' (Card Caster). :) Still, excellent write ups. I could see Psylocke maybe picking up a level or two of Monk later, to make her feel more martial arts-y, or 'Emma Frost' picking up at least an item of Stoneskin that could UMD, to fake the whole diamond-skin schtick. (or an alternate psychic spell similar to mage's transformation, that shuts down spellcasting and makes her tankier?).
I like the Nightwing and Emma Frost write-ups as well.
The formatting on the Gambit profile is a little borked up. It's obvious from context that he's a staff magus / card caster, but the top section is missing a chunk of text.
More inspiration than explicit suggestions, but if you'll consider gestalt characters, I have this concept of a Mesmerist/Gunslinger (Mysterious Stranger archetype) that I thought up for an evil campaign that never took off. The Mesmerist class is honestly a lot less mesmerizing than someone without a moral compass who can cast Charm Person repeatedly*, but it worked as part of a party with the mesmerist tricks, and there was a lot of synergy with a Gunslinger built around Charisma. A 'black hat with an evil eye' type of villain. Think Ringmaster from Circus of Crime who shoots back instead of runs away.
* (or heck, a caster that casts Charm Person/Monster repeatedly isn't a bad idea for a villain. The duration is measured in hours and days.)
Another idea I had should be super simple to build from the bestiary: Gorilla Grodd. Start with a Dire Ape and keep adding templates and feats.
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if there are links to these posts i can't seem to access them. :-( i would be really interested in seeing those builds.
There are links! This person posted under the relevant aliases. If you check out the profile for each alias, you'll see the character sheets.
I have this guy based off of Nightwing.This is my take on Gambit.This is my take on the White Queen.Here is my version of Psyloke.if there are links to these posts i can't seem to access them. :-( i would be really interested in seeing those builds.
Click on the profile for each avatar. The profile information should be there.
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Here is my version of Psylocke.Your Psylocke and Gambit builds in particular benefit from there being Archetypes that might as well be named 'be Psylocke' (Mindblade) and 'be Gambit' (Card Caster). :) Still, excellent write ups. I could see Psylocke maybe picking up a level or two of Monk later, to make her feel more martial arts-y, or 'Emma Frost' picking up at least an item of Stoneskin that could UMD, to fake the whole diamond-skin schtick. (or an alternate psychic spell similar to mage's transformation, that shuts down spellcasting and makes her tankier?).
I like the Nightwing and Emma Frost write-ups as well.
The formatting on the Gambit profile is a little borked up. It's obvious from context that he's a staff magus / card caster, but the top section is missing a chunk of text.
Hmm, I will have to take a look at it. He is also a quarterstaff master archetype, the 2 stack.
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Here is my version of Psylocke.Your Psylocke and Gambit builds in particular benefit from there being Archetypes that might as well be named 'be Psylocke' (Mindblade) and 'be Gambit' (Card Caster). :) Still, excellent write ups. I could see Psylocke maybe picking up a level or two of Monk later, to make her feel more martial arts-y, or 'Emma Frost' picking up at least an item of Stoneskin that could UMD, to fake the whole diamond-skin schtick. (or an alternate psychic spell similar to mage's transformation, that shuts down spellcasting and makes her tankier?).
I like the Nightwing and Emma Frost write-ups as well.
The formatting on the Gambit profile is a little borked up. It's obvious from context that he's a staff magus / card caster, but the top section is missing a chunk of text.
I have debated taking levels in ninja or monk.