Avengers Endgame official trailer


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Liberty's Edge

Thomas Seitz wrote:
Just curious but did they at LEAST do the one thing they've teased through out ALL the Avengers movies but never quite did?

What did they tease?


Selene Spires wrote:

Just got back from it...it is a great movie...I cheered three times...

** spoiler omitted **

Wait,

Spoiler:
Mjolnir or Stormbreaker?

Thomas Seitz wrote:
Just curious but did they at LEAST do the one thing they've teased through out ALL the Avengers movies but never quite did?

If you mean:

Spoiler:
What Steven almost said at the end of AGE OF ULTRON but the film cuts to the credits before we heard him say it.

Then the answer is:

Spoiler:
Yes, it's a whole thing.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Favorite Moments

spoiler:

The joke about Cap's "pants" which I think the forum would edit out...

JARVIS

Cap wielding Mjolnir

Avenger's Assemble! (and the immediate lead up to that). Really, that scene makes me want to buy a van just so I can paint that scene onto it

Captain Marvel's big entrance at the end and Thanos' expression when he see's Sanctuary II get swiftly taken out

and so so many more...


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Todays' gag.

Go to Google.

Type in "Thanos."

Click the Infinity Gauntlet.

Enjoy.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Damon Griffin wrote:
Selene Spires wrote:

Just got back from it...it is a great movie...I cheered three times...

** spoiler omitted **

Wait, ** spoiler omitted **

The first one...


3 people marked this as a favorite.

Now here a interesting thing to think about...

:
How is Captain America going back in time going to change things...

Is he going to ignore the whole Hydra infiltrating S.H.I.E.L.D. thing?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Hama wrote:
Wonderful 3 hours and 2 minutes. Almost perfect film. 20 seconds of groan inducing eye rolling.

Pretty sure I know what 20 seconds you're talking about, and I had the exact same reaction. That scene felt so out of place.

Did everyone else get lost? Did they fall down the well? Really took me out of what was otherwise an incredible movie and (in particular) an amazing scene / set piece.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

I groaned at a thing, but it doesn't sound anything like what Peter is talking about.

I expect some--maybe even many--parts may have YMMV reactions.

I think maybe I know the moment indeed Peter is talking about from what he's saying, and the entire theater of about 700 people cheered loudly in joy at that moment (I was in a very active and vocal theater that was very wired for the movie; normally I don't like that but I was right there with them). So clearly YMMV.

Overall it's quite a ride and I think certainly more good than bad, and largely just a massive adrenaline rush. I left the theater sweating like I'd just been running for an hour, and I wasn't warm.


Selene Spires wrote:

Now here a interesting thing to think about...

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
Yes. Because he knows it works out in the end and if he changes anything at all, it'll create a new splinter timeline and he won't reunite with his friends in 2023.

We should wait for the spoiler thread before really getting into the time travel stuff. It's a bit intense.


Yeah, my whole theater cheered for the part DeathQuaker is talking about too. the guy sitting next to me leaned forward and whispered really intensely "YES". For my part I really liked it.


Werthead wrote:

Todays' gag.

Go to Google.

Type in "Thanos."

Click the Infinity Gauntlet.

Enjoy.

Doesn't seem to be working

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Werthead wrote:

Todays' gag.

Go to Google.
Type in "Thanos."
Click the Infinity Gauntlet.
Enjoy.
Doesn't seem to be working

Thought is was cool.


Type in thanos
Hit enter

It pops up on the right, its not like their picture gags where it's on the home page


1 person marked this as a favorite.

The movie is not perfect, but it is going to compete for one of my top 5 favorite movies of all time.

It's very emotional, but a lot of that emotion comes from the 12 years and 21 movies that preceded this one. It's literally the combination of the long time period in which these movies have existed and the amount of the time spent watching them. The movie does a really good job of just allowing these characters to exist in moments that let you be with them.

Some of the writing is good, occasionally even really good, but there are moments of meh, and dropped balls.

Interestingly, they made room for the story of one more character in this movie, and it was desperately needed (though I'm sure someone will disagree with me). Their story only existed in bits and pieces, and it was nice to see it all put together finally. And it was central to the... I don't even know what "act"... this movie was so long.

(They should bring back intermissions for future ensemble movies of this nature.)

Anyways, this movie was 12 years in the telling, and it was worth it. I have one quibble with the ending, but I'll save it for the spoiler thread.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

To those that were wondering, yes I'm referring what

Spoiler:
Steve Rogers only partial said in Age of Ultron.
So to hear that I will get to see/hear that...is priceless.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Well, just saw it.

Did a WAY better job of actually generating an emotional response in me than the last one.

Surprised by how many things I called right.

Now, for the Emotional Beats That Worked Well For Me:

Spoiler:
Cap wielding Mjolnir was glorious in the extreme.

"On your left."

"She is not alone." ABOUT FRIGGIN' TIME.

Cap's ending. This one I didn't call before the movie, but in the 1970 bit? Ohhhhh yeah.

Stuff that even the new-movie high can't clear from my brain:

Spoiler:
Good god the plot is a mess. I mean... JEEZE. Thankfully, no one bought a ticket to this sucker for plot.

The time travel shenanigans are best MST3Ked, 'cause otherwise you're going to be really, really baffled. In fact, there's a whole pile of implications the movie does a poor job of- such as the fact that half of all animal life in the universe effectively skipped ahead five years while the other half didn't and had to go through the grieving process only now the people they mourned are all back. That.... is going to cause some serious headaches and repercussions that I bet a shiny nickel we never ever touch again.

Wanted more out of the Hulk. C'est la vie.

Surprised by how unsurprised I was by the two major deaths.

EDIT: And now, some more mean-spirited spoiler-related comments.

Spoiler:
MAN am I glad Vision stayed dead (by virtue of not having been snapped and instead having his head ripped open). He was a very, very odd character to fit into the general dynamic, and his romance with Wanda really felt hotshotted, a "it happened in the comics so we're doing it here, shaddup, it's totally got emotional weight" thing. Plus, he reminded me of Superman back in the old Justice League comics, where the writers had to explain why he was busy so he couldn't singlehandedly solve everything. Like, in Civil War? Where the hell was he during that little scuffle with Crossbones? NOT A PROBLEM ANY LONGER.

Likewise, glad that the Hulk/Widow Whedoned "romance" is generally only alluded to rather than directly referenced. It always felt really tacked-on- her emotional bond with Clint always felt more genuine. Not every bond of love needs to be romantic.

Man, Doctor Strange is the tropiest wizard around.


No idea what 20 seconds Peter and DQ are talking/not talking about.

Time travel/continuity/Phase 3:

Spoiler:

Will Spider-Man: Far From Home deal with the fact that half of Peter's class is now five years older than the rest? Or are we to assume that Ned, Flash, MJ et al were all dusted along with Peter? Just not sure how this upcoming class trip is supposed to work.

Cap sure likes to take chances with the timeline. Pulling off his stunt requires either that he spends decades lying to Peggy or brings her in no everything so they can cooperate on ensuring the original timeline isn't altered. If nothing else she'll need to understand why he has to sit out every superhero related crisis for several decades (while also participating in them)...and what to say to him when she "first" meets him in modern day as an old woman in a hospital bed.

Black Widow is irreversibly dead. Black Widow has a [prequel] movie coming out some time in 2020, well after Spider-Man: Far From Home...which is supposed to close out Phase 3. So is the Black Widow movie "out of phase" entirely?

Also, boo hiss to finally making a Black Widow solo movie...after making sure she's dead dead dead.

Liberty's Edge

I am glad that

Spoiler:
they didn't "undo" the snap with the time travel stuff. I thought they were going to go that way. It shows it did happen and everyone has to deal with the fallout from it.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Comments on spoilery things

spoiler:

The 5 year skip being maintained was a big surprise, but I am not sure we can consider it a plot hole as of yet. I could definitely see that being fertile ground for future movies, as the chaos that probably happened in the 5 years of government instability could definitely fact into future MCU movies (Tech falling into the wrong hands, new groups rising to fill power vacuums, etc). HOPEFULLY, the Falcon/Winter Soldier show can delve into some of this. I admit I am now more interested in seeing the effects of this on normal folks. You know that for every person who didn't get over the grief there were folks that moved on, kids traumatized that now get their parents back who don't really know anything about them anymore, people who in the interim have probably lost some homes/etc. Not to mention all the snapped folks who come back to discover their loved ones committed suicide (unless those were somehow brought back as well?

And yes, the assumption I am going into for this film is that every significant speaking character from Spiderman got snapped along with Peter.

Time Travel: Actually the time travel was almost completely consistent and made sense in the rules of the movie, it just didn't follow the rules of some other films and books. Any change that happens in the past creates a new timeline that doesn't effect the present. The only thing that is weird is the stuff with Cap at the very end. My head canon is that he used his device to jump forward, probably after Peggy's death, but not to the exact moment he left. Who knows why...maybe his device got damaged and Pym had to fix it. It's annoying for sure.

The alternative theory is that the unnamed husband of Carter was always "Captain America" but one who obviously chose to remain incognito and allowed things to play out. Although this honestly doesn't make sense in the slightest given that Cap isn't someone who would be okay with letting his best friend be a mindwashed assassin for 50+ years, or allow Howard Stark and his wife to be executed. And so on. So I don't care for this idea myself


Spoilery things repsonse...

Spoiler:
The impression I got from what the Ancient One described is that there is only one time stream. A property of the infinity stones themselves is that they can only exist in one reality, and their existence means that only one reality also exists. When Dr. Strange looks into the future, he sees possibilities, but he isn't choosing between realities. All those possibilities have a chance at existing, but only one will exist. If the stones are removed or destroyed, new realities become possible.

As for CapAm in the past, he's aware that nothing he does can change the "future", because it is already his past. And the sense I get from that exchange is that while you can change details, it won't change the overall course of events. For example, killing baby Thanos won't prevent the snap, it just means the snap happens some other way (that was my impression from the movie).

So, if CapAm saves Bucky, it means someone else becomes the Winter Soldier, and that person still kills Stark's parents... and Stark will blame Cap for allowing this new person to become the Winter Soldier.... it doesn't solve anything, and it means Cap has to effectively choose to subject someone else to the torture Bucky experienced. Or it might be that whatever Cap does, it just turns out the same (Bucky is Winter Soldier) no matter what.

The actual unexplained problem in the movie is what happened to Loki. That is a major plot hole.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Irontruth wrote:

Spoilery things repsonse...

** spoiler omitted **

spoilery response :

That wasn't at all how I interpreted things, and also seems to not work with the movie as portrayed. Beyond the Loki thing, there is also:

Nebula killing her past self

Past Thanos getting dusted years before he could enact the events of Infinity wars

Gamora in the past now in the present, which means nothing in the guardians movies took place the same way

None of those things make sense if there is only one timeline.

Sovereign Court

They explained that in the movie,

Spoiler:
none of that affects what happened before in any way whatsoever. Everything happened as it happened in the previous 22 movies. Everything.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Hama wrote:

They explained that in the movie, ** spoiler omitted **

So they said, Hama, but that simply can't be true.

Spoiler:

in the new reality, Thanos senses a disturbance with Nebula and goes to investigate. He finds an older Nebula, sends his daughter to the future, and then follows behind with all his forces.

They are never heard from again.

Can someone walk me through

Spoiler:
why Stark had to die at the end.

Once he uses the gaultlet, he's dying but conscious. Bad news for anyone not bearing the Reality stone. But he is. It can turn Drax into a bunch of boxes; it can heal his wounds.

Or the Mind stone could have created a duplicate of his memory and personality to share space in Pepper's head.

Or the Soul Stone could have ... Or the Time Stone ... Or Mantis or Scarlet Witch ...

(If you say he was too weak to affect such things, there's a whole host of people standing around him, who could have taken one of the stones and done the same thing.


MMCJawa wrote:
Irontruth wrote:

Spoilery things repsonse...

** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **

A spoilery response

Spoiler:
Thanos leaving the timeline to join the future doesn't happen until after Thanos has already done the snap. The only items that truly have to be present for the time to remain in a single continuity are the infinity stones. In the time stream the past has already happened, and Thanos coming forward to be dusted doesn't happen until after the snap is undone.

Thanos doesn't disappear from the past until after he's already gone through that period of the past once. It's a weird thing to wrap the head around, I know.

The past where Thanos got the stones and snapped has already happened, and therefore he cannot disappear from those events, or not cause them to happen.

Just like Loki being gone from the past now doesn't prevent Loki from all the events he's partaken in. In essence, there are now two Loki's... or.... it's because of his usage of the infinity stone that he might create a whole new series of events, because the movement of infinity stones can alter timelines.

Essentially, the movie's core logic is that you cannot go back and change events that you've experienced. You can change other events, but they will not change things you've already done. This does not create alternate realities, unless the infinity stones are taken out of time from each other or used in certain ways, because the infinity stones create a specific and coherent timeline (coherent in the sense of it stays together, not coherent in the sense that it makes sense to you).

The infinity stones are the key to this. Without their inherent property of creating a single coherent timeline, then everything flies off the rails and now you have a dead Thanos before Thanos snaps his fingers, which creates paradoxes or Back to the Future fading photos. Since we do have them though, that means time is linear, even if that "linear" moves around in a way that doesn't make sense to us intuitively.

Also, all of this means that the rules of time travel are fundamentally different after this, because the infinity stones no longer exist.


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Chris Mortika wrote:
Hama wrote:

They explained that in the movie, ** spoiler omitted **

So they said, Hama, but that simply can't be true.

** spoiler omitted **

Can someone walk me through ** spoiler omitted **

Walking through...

Spoiler:

Reality stone changes revert back to normal after a while.
Time stone would just put everything back to how it was before Tony snapped.
Soul stone.... who knows? It seems like a dick stone, it probably would kill the person who used it this way.
Mind stone, that's a complicated and hard thing to think of IMO. And a lot to ask of someone. It's the most likely solution, but someone would have to think of it.

In GotG we saw what happened to a normal person when they touched ONE stone, and Tony activated all six. I think having what happened to him be permanent and unchangeable is okay.

Also, I think we should be glad and appreciative of comic book movies having permanent deaths. Too many people get brought back all the time in comics. If Tony can't die here, then we gotta start asking why they aren't bringing back Uncle Ben.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Irontruth wrote:

Walking through...

** spoiler omitted **

The last three sentences in your spoiler tag get a resounding AMEN from me.

Sovereign Court

Chris Mortika wrote:
Hama wrote:

They explained that in the movie, ** spoiler omitted **

So they said, Hama, but that simply can't be true.

** spoiler omitted **

Can someone walk me through ** spoiler omitted **

Irontruth said it better than I could. Just read it twice and think I am saying it one of those times.


Honestly all of it put together tells me two things

Spoiler:

A) There is a glitch in the timestream that someone like oh say...Kang could take advantage of.

B) Some like oh say ... Immortus might show up to punish people for messing with the timestream.

and together that lets us build up a fun Kang/Immortus storyline for whatever Marvel has planned next.


Grey,

Trust me if they don't use Kang within the next 5 years, I'm going to be REALLY upset...

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Chris Mortika, I have a different explanation that to me feels simpler (though I can't say it's right)...

SPOILERS:

Quote:

in the new reality, Thanos senses a disturbance with Nebula and goes to investigate. He finds an older Nebula, sends his daughter to the future, and then follows behind with all his forces.

They are never heard from again.

Can someone walk me through

When Tony snaps and "dusts" Thanos and his army, I believe he is actually sending all of them back to the point in time before he learns the future from Nebula, in such a way that he is unable to learn said future again (with all the stones this is possible). Therefore that Thanos, no longer forewarned, just proceeds with his regular plan to get the stones and nothing changes. Doing this also returns past Gamora to the past and past-Nebula back without her injury.

The others' explanations are paying attention more to what Banner said about how time travel works and frankly may actually be more correct, but I'm just attempting an explanation that personally makes sense to me so I can sleep at night.

As for what happened to Tony, IIRC first of all--as someone else said, JUST the power stone can mess you up, so holding all six active is bound to do so. Secondly, there's a paradoxical issue here--just using the stones burns you up; if you use them to heal you, you're still also using the stones and they will still burn you up anyway. There's also some suggestion that somehow using the stones on yourself doesn't work in the same way as using it on others, which may just be an inbuilt limitation the stones themselves create.


What if "The Snap" Actually Happened?


I am with DQ about the possibility of

Spoiler:
what Tony accomplished with the Gauntlet. I also had a strange idea after my second showing:

In both Infinity War and Endgame, we're informed that to obtain the Soul Gem, you must go 'a soul for a soul'. It's kinda the soul of the universe. Well, Steve goes back in time to put all the gems back. So I wondered if that exchange applies both ways. He puts the Soul Gem back...and we get Natasha back? Sort of like collateral for a loan?

Now, this wouldn't work with Gamora, because of exactly when it happened, not to mention the destruction of the Infinity Gems.

Yes, I want my favorite SHIELD agent and superspy alive and well, what's your point?

Sovereign Court

Dude that is all a spoiler


for chris mortika:
That damage was inflicted to him by all 5 stones, he'd need to use all 5 stones to fix it. Tony is good, but he's not as good as the dwarves making the gauntlet out of a dying star good, especially something jerry rigged out of his nanite gauntlet. Remember even holding. much less using, one stone took all the guardians of the galaxy and one of them is half god and two of them can take blows from thanos.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

was it me or...:
Did they never actually catch loki, and was "Thors mom" actually more like loki than thor's mom? "Eat a salad" "your brothers better at hiding" etc.

Spoiler:
Now picturing a world where everyones ID has whether you were timeskipped or not on it so the 13 year old can't vote...


Had an unpleasant thought.

Where were the Asgardians when the snap happened?
or rather more importantly ....

Spoiler:
where will the unsnapped Asgardians appear when they poof back into existence?

cause I'm kind of remembering that they were adrift in space in the wreckage of their fleet when the snap happened....and said wreckage might not be there anymore.

"Hazah, we aren't dust anymore"
"......."
(adrift in the void of space)
"...well crap"


Grey, when talking about the movie use "spoiler tags."

It'll look like this:

(spoiler)Plot stuff that would ruin the story for people who haven't seen the movie yet(/spoiler)

Except replace the () with []

This way, people who haven't seen the movie don't accidentally see something you've written.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

Regarding holding the stones:

Spoiler:
Really, only the Power stone seemed to have problems with people touching it. The Soul stone, nope, Hawkeye touched it just fine. Mind stone, nope,Vision and Wanda touched it at different points. Time gem lived around the neck of the Sorcerer Supreme at some points. The Space stone was picked up by all sorts of people. Reality gem's a bit more iffy. It's the combined effects that cause so much trouble it seems.


Vision is a machine made of vibranium... I don't think that he touched the Mind stone is proof of much.

Wanda touched it, but only after it had been used to imbue her with power.

The sorcerers didn't touch the time stone, they had it in a protective case.

The Space Stone was only touched by Thanos directly. Loki touched the Tesseract, the object around the space stone. When Fury touched it, it burned his hand through a leather glove.

The Reality stone literally infected a human and required them to get advanced alien medical help.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

Two complaints about the end...

Minor complaint:

Spoiler:
When Sam asks Cap about the woman he meets/marries, and Cap says "I'm not telling." It should have ended there. Seriously. They go to it, and it's cute, but it was exactly what I could have imagined on my own. Actually, it was less than I imagined on my own. It would have been better to just cut to the next thing. Three reasons:

1) Don't tell us you aren't going to tell us, and then tell us. It's dumb. Kill Bill made the same mistake with The Bride's name. If you are going to tell us, just tells. Don't waste time telling us you aren't going to tell us.

2) It gives Cap a measure of humanity that a movie cannot otherwise give. By having the character decide to keep a secret, and having the movie itself honor that secret, would have respected him and made him even more real. Showing it strips Cap of that agency.

3) Every audience member would get to imagine it themselves. 95% of people were going to 'ship him with Carter anyways, you don't need to show us. The other 5% of the audience would 'ship him with their own favorite theory. Regardless of who each person chose, they would still imagine all sorts of stuff that the movie didn't have time to show.

Major complaint

Spoiler:
This movie doesn't treat women very well. Black Widow's sacrifice is as equally great as Starks, perhaps greater, since she actually knows she's going to die. She's not treated as a leader. She gets one scene where people are complaining at her, and that's considered "leadership". She has to drag a man kicking and screaming back to normalcy. She has to die for that man's happiness. Then at the end, Tony Stark gets this really, really, really long slow pan through all of the characters who loved him, and Black Widow has to share her remembrance with Vision inside a couple lines of dialogue. You're telling me that Nick Fury shows up to Stark's funeral, but doesn't show up to Romanov's? That's some f$*$ing b+*+%&%+ right there. Honestly, this could have been solved super easily by putting out a memorial for both of them. The idea I had while watching was a statue in San Francisco surrounded by the stones with the names on them. But even just a floating wreath to go out on the lake at the same time as Tony would have been cool.

Nebula is problematic as well, but I'm going to give the movie a bit of a pass on this. I think it tries to show her redemption, but at the same time portraying an abuse victim as a villain is some b#+&+&~#. Unfortunately her story hasn't necessarily had the time to develop the way it has needed to, but a couple of minor tweaks would have made it better. I'm giving a slight pass on this because that is a hard thing to do well (perhaps a reason to not have done it) and the movie was already so full of stuff that adding more just couldn't be done.

They echo the line "She's not alone." And that's cool, but this one doesn't feel as impactful. It's a cgi-blur of action with little to no focus on anything that is going on. It felt like crumbs compared to the action that Thor and Cap got involved in. And yes, I know they're more the stars of this movie, but that could have been broken up, or more involved with other characters playing off of these two.

If you disagree with me, don't debate it. This is how I feel about it, and you can't debate me out of how I feel.

Sovereign Court

Irontruth wrote:

Two complaints about the end...

Minor complaint:
** spoiler omitted **

Major complaint
** spoiler omitted **...

Spoiler:
Stark started it all, and he is the reason MCU exist. Of course his death is going to be more important than Widows. I would have loved if he talked to her after he snapped, in soul world, and she said "it's OK, you done good"

Also, this is Tony's, Steve's and Thor's movie. More tony's and steve's as it is their bookend. Of course they are going to get all of the screen time and important things to do.

Shadow Lodge

Flagflagflagflag


Thordude abids


Kevin Smith Reviews Avengers: Endgame - SPOILERS!


Watched it a second time this weekend and is still great. If i make a list of stuff i liked the post would be too long^^

:
Loved that characters who played a smaller role before get time to shine. Ant-man and Nebula come to mind. Esp. Nebula continued her development starting with the first guardians. The scene between her and past Gamora was great and showed what good actors cann do even under heavy make-up. And Nebula in a sense following the way Gamora made after all they both had to endure, shows that someone has not to be set in the way of the past or let it define the future.

Widow had her moments too. Her being the one to try to hold them all together was a nice twist.

Captain Marvel could have done more but her scenes with the other avengers and in the end destroying the ship and giving Thanos a beating after absorbing power from the stones were great. But I heard that her scenes were made before her own movie so that could explain why she is not showing up during the time heist

So great movie and it could break my record for seeing a movie in a cinema^^

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Going to see it tonight.
Is it worth the extra $$$ to see it on IMAX?

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