Bag of Holding


Magic Items

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Scarab Sages

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Gaterie wrote:
Check at the knacksap of halflingkind: when you take a tart from it, you have to pay 1 resonance and you have to remove one of the 4 uses per day. Because "eating a tart for breakfast" is so powerful, it has to be limited on a per day basis on top of costing resonance.

Based on the description, pulling the kitchenware out and pulling the tarts out are just interacts. Eating the tart is the operation. So it’s basically 4 free lesser healing potions

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B. A. Robards-Debardot wrote:
Gaterie wrote:
Check at the knacksap of halflingkind: when you take a tart from it, you have to pay 1 resonance and you have to remove one of the 4 uses per day. Because "eating a tart for breakfast" is so powerful, it has to be limited on a per day basis on top of costing resonance.
Based on the description, pulling the kitchenware out and pulling the tarts out are just interacts. Eating the tart is the operation. So it’s basically 4 free lesser healing potions

The Bag of Holding doesn't specifically state in its description that any particular use is an Operate Activation. Yet it apparently requires spending Resonance because the item has Operate Activation listed in the header.

By that logic, shouldn't any use of the Knapsack also require resonance? If not, what's the difference between retrieving an item from the knapsack with an Interact and retrieving an item from the Bag of Holding with an Interact?

Scarab Sages

Tamago wrote:
B. A. Robards-Debardot wrote:
Gaterie wrote:
Check at the knacksap of halflingkind: when you take a tart from it, you have to pay 1 resonance and you have to remove one of the 4 uses per day. Because "eating a tart for breakfast" is so powerful, it has to be limited on a per day basis on top of costing resonance.
Based on the description, pulling the kitchenware out and pulling the tarts out are just interacts. Eating the tart is the operation. So it’s basically 4 free lesser healing potions

The Bag of Holding doesn't specifically state in its description that any particular use is an Operate Activation. Yet it apparently requires spending Resonance because the item has Operate Activation listed in the header.

By that logic, shouldn't any use of the Knapsack also require resonance? If not, what's the difference between retrieving an item from the knapsack with an Interact and retrieving an item from the Bag of Holding with an Interact?

Hmm. I can see that on the kitchen ware, but not on the tarts as pulling them out is called out as just an interact.


graystone wrote:
MerlinCross wrote:

Or Die from AoE damage. Or charging Giant who's hungry. Or...

Point is most DMs tend to forget to target Bag of Holding and the loss of one, even if it is empty, is a step cost. Hireling/pack animal? Acceptable target.

*Shrug* as I said, if non-animal companion mounts are a thing in the game they are in the same boat. If the DM is out for them, the party is walking everywhere: The pack yak in fact is more able to defend itself than normal mounts.

From my personal experience I don't often find DM's stealing familiars, burning spell books, defiling holy symbols or inventing situations where your mounts get eaten [assuming proper hiding/protection/placement].

It really boils down to wanting your party to get from point A to point B: do you REALLY want the party to waste the extra time trudging through the countryside for weeks because their mounts got eaten? I tend to find people that want to get on with the adventure and not have to fight mundane animal encounters taking the 'long' way. When you only have 4 hours to play once a week, do you want to kill that time on uninteresting extra travel because random monster #216 killed your mounts? Or do you want to get back to town, trade in your loot and move on in the adventure?

I suppose that depends on the type of game you're running and letting your players know ahead of time.

But given that I just came off of a game where an Ogre attacked the horse and it fled, with the whole wagon, it does actually happen.

Also if your DM just throws monsters as numbers at you, doing something wrong. Not every encounter needs a huge set up and plot but just flinging monsters at them for the sake of flinging them is stupid to me.

Sovereign Court

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shroudb wrote:
KingOfAnything wrote:
I think I kind of like the bag of holding. The use of resonance does make players think about what they want to store in it and why. I imagine I would fill one with a variety of tools and situational kits to make sure my party always has an item bonus for relevant situations. 1 RP is not a high cost to give the whole party a bonus to Climb the frozen waterfall.
I thought that anytools were standard equip for all parties. Just us?

Yeah, anytools can't replace climber's kits or disguise kits. And for what they can replace, an anytool requires 1 RP per party member, while a bag of holding requires 2 RP for the whole party.


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Matthew Downie wrote:
shroudb wrote:
I thought that anytools were standard equip for all parties.
Anytools? How much Resonance do they cost?

considering the alternative is 2 RP per tool that i'll need a day either way (taking it out of the bag of holding and putting it back in) I'll take the 1 per tool of the anytools:P

Sovereign Court

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shroudb wrote:
Matthew Downie wrote:
shroudb wrote:
I thought that anytools were standard equip for all parties.
Anytools? How much Resonance do they cost?
considering the alternative is 2 RP per tool that i'll need a day either way (taking it out of the bag of holding and putting it back in) I'll take the 1 per tool of the anytools:P

That's fine if you are the only person who needs a tool, but the same 2 RP can equip an entire party in necessary gear rather than require all four party members to spend 1 RP on their any tool. The bag of holding is twice as RP efficient.


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KingOfAnything wrote:
shroudb wrote:
Matthew Downie wrote:
shroudb wrote:
I thought that anytools were standard equip for all parties.
Anytools? How much Resonance do they cost?
considering the alternative is 2 RP per tool that i'll need a day either way (taking it out of the bag of holding and putting it back in) I'll take the 1 per tool of the anytools:P
That's fine if you are the only person who needs a tool, but the same 2 RP can equip an entire party in necessary gear rather than require all four party members to spend 1 RP on their any tool. The bag of holding is twice as RP efficient.

depends on the tools really.

more often than not (until now at least) the tools we used only required 1-2 people to pull off stuff.

even now, i see that a single thieves, repair, alchemist can accomodate a lot of occasions.

Climbing kits and such we haven't used for a long time, mainly because godwizards could usually conjure answers out of their... spellbooks... :Pbut now it may see a bit more use


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brad2411 wrote:
Where are you seeing the cost of 1 resonance to open? I see the Invested trait which means you spend a point at the beginning of the day (invest an item activity) to use for the whole day.

The activation action it takes to use it is an item activation thus default 1 resonance point every time you dip your hand in it. There is a neat hafling backpack that is super in character for halflings but it would be insane to use it. It would be like 3 resonance to take out the cookware/dinner ware/tarts from it and that is a sizable amount of resource investment for an RP cute ability.


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For the halfling knapsack it looks like the action listed to use its features is an operate action for the bag and the cookware. It does appear that in reading it again the tarts are just an interaction action which seems fine so useful for those but just seems weird to burn a daily limited resource for a pure RP cookware ability. Sure its neat and very halfling but does that really warrant using up a resource or the book keeping involved in that???

Sovereign Court

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kaid wrote:
For the halfling knapsack it looks like the action listed to use its features is an operate action for the bag and the cookware. It does appear that in reading it again the tarts are just an interaction action which seems fine so useful for those but just seems weird to burn a daily limited resource for a pure RP cookware ability. Sure its neat and very halfling but does that really warrant using up a resource or the book keeping involved in that???

The tarts require an Operate Activation to eat, so 1 RP per 2d8 + 4 points of healing.


Matthew Downie wrote:
shroudb wrote:
I thought that anytools were standard equip for all parties.
Anytools? How much Resonance do they cost?

Going by the bags... 1 to form a tool and 1 to revert it to base form so 2RP per tool use.


I for one am mostly okay with resonance as a way of solving the christmas tree and CLW heal stick paradigms that plagued 1e, but there are a few areas where I feel like the system breaks down.

Especially regarding bag of holding. This is an item that at it's core should be very simple. But currently, read as written, if you wish to put anything into the bag, or take anything out of it, you must spend a resonance point for each thing. Read more conservatively, you must spend RP to open or close it, but because it also requires two hands, you literally cannot take your hands off it without it closing. So in other words, you have to spend an RP to open it, then have a friend shovel anything they need to into it, then spend another RP to close it.

An item that a 4th level character can pick up, means that this item will blow through your resonance points in about 2 turns of trying to store any actual amount of things inside it, let alone wanting to get stuff back out later.

Bag of Holding (in my opinion) should be an invested item, not an activation one. A lot of items need to be gone over with a fine-tooth comb to see what exactly requires activation and what should be passive.


Don't forget making charisma more important.

Yeah I think we need some work on the old bag of holding however. hmm maybe have the option of igther investing a resonance into it and being able to open and close at will or the option of only putting on in it when you need to open or close it for if you intend to use it sparingly.


Vidmaster7 wrote:

Don't forget making charisma more important.

Yeah I think we need some work on the old bag of holding however. hmm maybe have the option of igther investing a resonance into it and being able to open and close at will or the option of only putting on in it when you need to open or close it for if you intend to use it sparingly.

That was my thought just make that and the backpack for halflings invested. That way it has a cost to have it and use it but as it stands I am not sure how many people would be willing to use them.


graystone wrote:
Matthew Downie wrote:
shroudb wrote:
I thought that anytools were standard equip for all parties.
Anytools? How much Resonance do they cost?
Going by the bags... 1 to form a tool and 1 to revert it to base form so 2RP per tool use.

"only" 1RP/use reverting to rod form is an interact action - which (as near as I can tell) doesn't require an RP cost - On the plus side it doesn't require investing...


This is going to make the low strength alchemist in our party rather sad. Poor guy's having a rough time.


FlySkyHigh wrote:
if you wish to put anything into the bag, or take anything out of it, you must spend a resonance point for each thing.

Just put sacks of stuff into the bag instead of single items. (5 sacks = 0.1 bulk.) This also helps protect the bag from pointy things, although a chest might be better.

Quote:
keep bag open all day?

When the bag is open, the contents should weigh their true bulk? This might require putting the bag on the ground to use it.


Gloom wrote:

Honestly, the best suggestion that I've heard on this was two fold.

1) Convert the Bag of Holding into an Invested item so the only cost to use it is for you to invest it at the start of your day.

2) Potentially add a 'Handy Haversack' style benefit to it as an optional activate action that costs you a resonance to reach in and get exactly what you need.

Otherwise have it function like a very large bag.

With these changes it feels like it would be in a much better place.

Agreed


Raynulf wrote:
Liegence wrote:

You want players going in and out of their bags without an Accounting - make it quick and easy, tally-free.

Interesting point. Though I think you are making a rather large assumption, that I don't think is supported by the actual game itself - remember, in the current system if you ever exceed the weight or volume limit of a bag of holding, it instantly destroys itself and (effectively) all of the objects in it.

That is to say, the current published system demands a far greater degree of accounting, and with far harsher penalties for failing to do so than merely having to make a flat-check to access your gear that day.

Now, in play most GMs I've seen ignore the destruction clause of exceeding the bag's capacity, and many also ignore the destruction clause of placing 'sharp' objects (for a given value of 'sharp') in a bag. But this isn't the published system - it's simply a common agreement that the group doesn't want to use the published mechanics, and prefers to house-rule them to be more forgiving. And there is nothing stopping a group from doing the same thing with regards to Resonance in Pathfinder 2 :)
y.

Huh. That's another really good point.

You? I like you.


Actually I'm not sure why people are complaining about the bag of holding. Given the WBL rules, it's not an item you'll see in any game.

The bag of holding starts at level 4.

Your level 3 item is your mandatory +1 armor, or your mandatory +1 skill tool. You need both to follow the monster progression (without a skill-enhancing item there's no monster you can possibly beat at your primary skill; without the max bonus armor, monsters will quicky crit you to death).

Your level 4 item is your mandatory +1 sword.

You don't have any level 5 item. Instead, you have the level 3 item you're missing (a +2 armor or a +1 skill item).

Your level 6 item is your mandatory +2 Per item.

Your level 7 item is your mandatory +2 armor or your mandatory +2 skill tool.

Your level 8 item is your mandatory +2 sword.

...etc...

You can't possibly have a bag of holding. Actually you can't possibly have anything else than your weapon, your armor, your primary skill tool, and your Per item.

Dark Archive

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It seems weird that people keep saying it takes 2 RP to use the bag (1 to open, and 1 to close). My interpretation is that you have to use 2 hands to pull the top of the bag open (which is your Operate Activation that costs 1 RP), and that this action is actually opening a portal to a nested bubble plane. Maintaining this portal requires you to keep both hands on the bag and hold it open... I guess it has a kind of elastic/magnetic pull that tries to close the portal. Releasing the bag or allowing it to close itself would be a Drop or Interact action, not another Operate Activation.

This interpretation does mean that you need a second person to pull your item out or put things into it though... I guess another option is that it's possible to use 1 hand to hold the bag open, while you may use your other hand to manipulate items in the bag.


Gaterie wrote:

Actually I'm not sure why people are complaining about the bag of holding. Given the WBL rules, it's not an item you'll see in any game.

The bag of holding starts at level 4.

Your level 3 item is your mandatory +1 armor, or your mandatory +1 skill tool. You need both to follow the monster progression (without a skill-enhancing item there's no monster you can possibly beat at your primary skill; without the max bonus armor, monsters will quicky crit you to death).

Your level 4 item is your mandatory +1 sword.

You don't have any level 5 item. Instead, you have the level 3 item you're missing (a +2 armor or a +1 skill item).

Your level 6 item is your mandatory +2 Per item.

Your level 7 item is your mandatory +2 armor or your mandatory +2 skill tool.

Your level 8 item is your mandatory +2 sword.

...etc...

You can't possibly have a bag of holding. Actually you can't possibly have anything else than your weapon, your armor, your primary skill tool, and your Per item.

Sure, any martial character should pick a magic weapon instead of the bag. However, not everyone plays martial characters. Spell casters can sporadically get more DPR with a magic weapon, but it may not be very much:

Sample character:
Elf cleric 5 STR 10 DEX 16 CON 12 INT 12 WIS 18 CHA 18
Cleric options: (healing stuff) (Resonance 9. 7 channels each heal 4d8+13 or 4d8+5)

Ancestry feat: Otherworldly Magic to get Electric Arc cantrip (2x 1d6+4) so never have to roll to hit

Items:
1xLvl 4: bag of holding
2xLvl 3: +1 armor & staff of healing (crimps bow use)
1xLvl 2: wand of Heal 1 or skill item (buy the other with cash)

With this character, I think the party might be better off having 10x more loot-carrying capacity and not having to forage when going overland.

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