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Hm. I gotta say the title is the most childish I've run across today.
Given the OP, I can't say I'm surprised.
I really hope the Paladin blog is far out, just because of nonsense like this.
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I want my...!
I want my...!
I WANT MY Pally blog last you seeeeeeee!
Alternatively, it'd be fun if they put down as the Paladin Blog:
Yes.
Nothing beyond that, just 'Yes'.
The folks who think it's opened up go 'HUZZAH!'
The folks who think it's forever imprisoned in LG in a loving way go 'HUZZAH!'
...everyone wins!
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I'm super excited for Paladin. That said, I'd like to see Bard first.
I'm super excited for Paladin. That said, I'd like to see Bard first.
bard, monk, druid... there are plenty I'm looking forward to.
I Hope paladin one is last. I for sure want igther monk or wizard next. they can do monk then do a follow up on the new rules for unarmed and natural attacks.
Eh maybe a little extreme.
I'm super excited for Paladin. That said, I'd like to see Bard first.bard, monk, druid... there are plenty I'm looking forward to.
Looking forward too? I think you mean dreading fearfully. XD
Eh maybe a little extreme.or is it not extreme enough?
Set fire to watch the world burn?
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So to clarify, this is a thread complaining about people starting threads about paladins without enough information...started by HWalsh, the guy who has started by my count, about half a dozen paladin threads?
Be the change you want to see in the world buddy
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Or you could stop creating contentious threads.over and over, inflaming the issue far beyond its importance. Serioisly go take a week without thinking about paladins. Or posting about paladins.
And maybe stop acting so entitled. Theyll get to it.
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Dude if all i wamted was power with no restrictions Id be playing a true neutral wizard.
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Really anyone saying they want it their way or the highway is going to come off as a bit entitled. What you guys should be doing is finding some way for it to work for everyone (or more realistically as many people as possible.)
My personal compromise is the name game. Allow paladins of differing alignments but don't call them paladins change their name to complement their alignment and slightly change their abilities to match the feel of the alignment.
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Id be down with that entirely, as long as the classes were comparable, not "weakened versions cause reasons"
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I think the true neutral one's smite would have to be weaker (if smite is even a thing who knows) Just because your trading being able to smite pretty well everything but otherwise yeah their shouldn't be a power lose just a change of some abilities to reflect the alignment differences. kind of like a paladin might give an ally a bonus to save but a Anti would give enemies a penalty to their saves. With the new paladin feats You could probably work it in real easy to. Say this paladin feat require alignment of X.
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there is no need to withhold it.
Unless, of course, there are topics of more importance to most people interested in the Playtest.
Or, there are other topics that staff themselves think are more important.
Or, any number of reasons that posting a blog specifically about the Paladin is not the highest priority use of their time.
There are only a few posters who are clambering about the Paladin, and at least one of those appears to be a sock-puppet account recently created solely for posting in Paladin threads.
Perhaps they aren't "withholding" it, and are only waiting until more important topics that need to be covered for a larger audience have been taken care of and discussed.
Yeah something like that. some of your examples might be a bit narrow focused but that would be the jest of it.
I actually really like the ignores difficult terrain instead of divine health liberation over purity in that case.
Hmm really NG should have divine health it kind of represents purity which is what NG makes me think of. Maybe something more LG for true paladins.
You guys are welcome to spread my gospel to others feel free to link them to my idea I think I just invented a compromise to bind Athens and Sparta.
*bows*
thank you
thank you
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The entitled ones are the people demanding non-LG Paladins just so they can get their hands on the powers.
Gray Paladins are SPECIFICALLY weaker Paladins. If you want a non-LG Paladin that is weaker than the Paladin, go to town.Yeah its other people who only want it for the powers. Says the man who is happy with Grey Paladins so long as his one true Paladin is mechanically superior. Try at least to be consistent.
Hey now hold on that is old news we are on to new and better things. I have created compromise lets not fret about minutiae.
I will say to be clear I don't want weaker necessarily just different per alignment. Lets all make sure we are clear on that.
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That is true I'm thinking we might not even need to do that If the paladin feats are set up right. You could just put a certain alignment restriction on some of them. While like the armor ones would just be normal takes. So we could even have a pally without a strong connection to his alignment.
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This sounds like a lot of cool design Vidmaster, seems like it's pretty elegant.
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Whether or not the information is revealed it won't change the arguing or apparently stop every third thread from being about paladins. If they say it is open to all alignments I imagine we'll have several threads of please please change it back or I am leaving forever.
If they don't change it, there are likely to be posts asking why it is staying the same.
This isn't going away any more than arguments about goblins or martial-caster problems are.
So like an idea would be (and I don't know enough about pf2 to get the math and all that but) You would have a smite and it would be like level to damage for example and you could smite anyone. then you would take pally feat smite evil for example so now in addition to being able to smite anyone when you smite evil you gain like charisma to hit or something to that effect.
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Really anyone saying they want it their way or the highway is going to come off as a bit entitled. What you guys should be doing is finding some way for it to work for everyone (or more realistically as many people as possible.)
My personal compromise is the name game. Allow paladins of differing alignments but don't call them paladins change their name to complement their alignment and slightly change their abilities to match the feel of the alignment.
Replace slightly with significantly and you might have something.
Replace slightly with significantly and you might have something.Really anyone saying they want it their way or the highway is going to come off as a bit entitled. What you guys should be doing is finding some way for it to work for everyone (or more realistically as many people as possible.)
My personal compromise is the name game. Allow paladins of differing alignments but don't call them paladins change their name to complement their alignment and slightly change their abilities to match the feel of the alignment.
The post right above yours was kind of a quick and loose example of what I had in mind.
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Sorry to interrupt, but I’d like to mention that Graystone has managed to do the impossible and favorite this thread’s second post twice.
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So tempting to start a thread "Paizo Blog: Paladin Class Preview"
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I'd want all the changes to be fitable on a table (like it seems they will have a quick table for the gods with Clerics) but with feats allowing you to differentiate further. So the table will tell you your Smite, channel and aura for example. Then say if I'm playing a Paladin of Iomadea which normally grants an aura of courage, I could take a feat which allows me to switch my aura to one of indimidation.Replace slightly with significantly and you might have something.Really anyone saying they want it their way or the highway is going to come off as a bit entitled. What you guys should be doing is finding some way for it to work for everyone (or more realistically as many people as possible.)
My personal compromise is the name game. Allow paladins of differing alignments but don't call them paladins change their name to complement their alignment and slightly change their abilities to match the feel of the alignment.
I like it. sounds good.
Sorry to interrupt, but I’d like to mention that Graystone has managed to do the impossible and favorite this thread’s second post twice.So is he the god of pazio forums and we just didnt know it?What kind of domains does he give?
Some folks have sub accounts and use these. A big reason I don't trust voting threads!
Greystone really did get a double vote, though. XD
But yeah, voting threads got issues.
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Sorry to interrupt, but I’d like to mention that Graystone has managed to do the impossible and favorite this thread’s second post twice.
That's JUST how much I liked it. ;)
Looking forward too? I think you mean dreading fearfully. XDI'm super excited for Paladin. That said, I'd like to see Bard first.bard, monk, druid... there are plenty I'm looking forward to.
I can be curious AND pessimistic at the same time! For bard I never really liked the whole bard song thing so I'm curious what they do with it. Monk I'm curious how they plan to differentiate it from a fighter that fights unarmed: what kind of powers will it have? Only thing I'm dreading is a lawful alignment... :P Druid... I want to see what path it takes. Pet class, full on nature caster or somewhere inbetween.
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Its almost like we're finally getting into the realm of discussion and compromise. Everything else is a matter of where is the line.
Its almost like we're finally getting into the realm of discussion and compromise. Everything else is a matter of where is the line.
In some senses, the various sides might've never been too far apart to begin with. Which is good!
Under his post, as I understand it: CG "holy warrior" would NOT be a paladin, and would have abilities much different than a paladin. Instead, those abilities are flavored specifically to that class.
They're different classes. Or, at best, heavily modded archetypes. Paladin gets preserved; other options get offered though, in the end.
I am starting to understand, I think, that the concern, while it touches on other areas may be primarily about "having certain options in Core."
We're going from suddenly a LOT of options in 1e, to a new edition that has fewer options at the start (because it lacks 10 years in development). Other options will be "over the horizon" and if it is one thing many players do not like...
...it's uncertainty over control of their characters.
Perhaps we might imagine a number of these battles not as much a fight over paladin as it is a fight over design space, because it seems like other options are (temporarily) vanishing.
...then again, I also see them as debates over things like alignment, which needs to happen on its own. There's a lot balled up here, and untangling it is important to do. Untangling allows each part to get addressed, and for it to receive the attention it deserves--but also allows us to better understand one another.
I feel like sometimes, due to these other elements, that people are forced to take "one side or the other," when in reality, their position is much more gray, and their concerns--surprise! are actually somewhat more nuanced.
Call it a 'Champion'.
That way there's no baggage.
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Hmm. Would you look at that. I found another thing I want from Pathfinder 2nd edition that I originally didn't know I wanted. I'm pretty open-minded to it, and really interested and excited to see what the devs have in store, but I found another thing.
1: Halflings getting wisdom instead of charisma
And
2: A "loosened Paladin" Base/Core Class with a different name, that has codes, one of which is a lawful good code and following that code makes you a Paladin.
Drama. You're waiting to decide on the basis of a blog post for a system that won't even be in testing until August? Maybe you should go see someone and get some chill pills. If you have this much anxiety over a class in an RPG you need some perspective.
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