I am seeing some people adjusting stuff just because they are on the rare list. I do think they are cool people but that can be an example to baning things just because they are on the rarity list and no other reason.
Somethings are low level because they allow you to do what you want without waiting for a year or more.
Anyway i came here to say if you dont want to be effected by rarity and uncommon lists you can make a level 9 or higher level version of your current level 1 build then give it to your gm and to your fellow party members. Your gm can look at things with a clearer wiev of things and if something is banned either just because they are on the rarity list or it is realy game breaking you will know it before the game.
I did. I playtested the wizard. One of my friends tested the druid. They werent funny experiences. I will playtest it more ofcourse. It is hard to find a dedicated party. I guess our next playtest session will be next week.
EDIT:With amiri i was invincible! That is ofcourse due to gm rolling very low all the time in that session.
This is a 2e forum. I dont want to turn this thread to a 1e kineticist thread but as a player who played kineticist class for 3 years now. I dont think kineticist is underpowered. You can reach to +28 to hit and do more than 100 damage in a round with a kineticist telekinetic blast without accepting burn while flying while having the ability to turn invisible with more than 200 hp and some stupid fort save while having at will breath of life and some other stupid stuff at level 12. Your hit can go higher than +28 to. I can accept that reaching that point requires wierd things and some system mastery but kineticist isnt underpowered. I feel like i should give mark his credit where its due. Your class is a funny one and i like it.
EDIT:I know you meant casters but nah it isnt underpowered.
I am worried for new gms and new players. I started this game with occult adventures. Wierd invisible walls, misunderstood text and intentions was baked into my first year. It was a soul crushing experience. If you want newer people to play your game you should avoid those and let people have fun with half of your options you are giving to them.
More experienced players has no candy in this. They have their own games.
This why i dont want to discuss how to make magic better here. You need people who want to make magic better first.
EDIT:I dont want newer players go through the same things i had to go through. This magic system is pushing them in that direction.
Putting spells in an uncommon list wont do. Just adding some notes to it or guiding new gms to better understand the problems they could face would be much more helpfull to them. At its current state uncommon list will be no go list for a lot of gms. Why making it look like a game breaking choice is better than informing newer gms. I just dont get it.
Wisest decision? Hardly. They could have add a note to it. Saying how and when to use teleport. Talking about wisest decisions. Nerfing half of the all of the player choices(Out of 12 classes 6 of them are casters including the alchemist) in your game where players of said classes starts to feel like a useless weight isnt exactly the most wisest decision ever. Yes i am including the cleric to the list. Being the healbot isnt the best caster experience ever excluding people who likes that type of playstyle.
A lot of things in the playtest book can change in release. Pazio is just trying to gather some data from us so they can make a great game.
If they found out that majority of the players dont like the current way of writing things than they will change it.
EDIT: I dont like somethings in the playtest to but if i were to try to make a great game, my playtest book would look like this one.
You can nerf teleport to some point. I dont think i ever saw people who likes arbitrary long distance travels where they have to fight arbitrery random encounters and face challenges such as climb this unnecessarily high mountain. Teleport saves you from those and it is a nice backup plan when things dont go according to plan. You can nerf it to a point where it cannot be used for things such as scry and fry but putting it into a list which new gms can easly see it as a no go spell isnt the way to do it. A lot of those gms will look at uncommon list and saw them as broken spells.
You could buy a level 8 scroll which would cost some money and cast some spells which can be dispelled that also cost a lot of money combined with caster health pool and making yourself a target? Well good luck with that.
There ways to counter those things. First of all it would be hard to find a level 8 scroll among other things. I dont think they are even hard to do it.
Can you guys please stop acting like we dont agree with everything. Yes some nerfs is nice and acceptable however current nerfs are pazios classic overnerfing things so they dont have to deal with it later on.
Nerfing everything then expecting players to have fun in a gaming environment is going too far. This is what we said and honestly we all are saying the samething about the entire 2e playtest.
People who likes martials complain about skill dcs and other things too.
I didnt say it was weak. I just said it wasnt the 2/3 of the entire damage like you suggested. I was talking about what actually happened in game.
I dont see how i was biased in all this. Maybe i should have my breakfest now.
EDIT: Casters job isnt just the buff martial either.
I just compared a level 9 wizard with no optimization in 1e to level 1 barbarian with no optimization in 2e.
Damage comparison is your example. This god thing became popular after treatmonk. He didnt meant actuall gods. God wizard in 1e is a wizard who helps his team with buffs,debuffs,control and utility. That is his job. God wizard is a teamplayer and dont outshine anyone. Martials didnt break the game with their stupid amounts of damage in 1e? Thousand damage in a round is somehow weak?
EDIT: Apperently for some of us staying back and doing nothing in combat is somehow fun.
@Freagarthach More i look at it more i dont see how this is complicated. You are not rules lawyering your way out of this. Ethical paradox does nothing to save you from alignment shift and no celestial heal wouldnt save you either but i guess every gm for himself. BTW there was this cheap item called ghostbane salt(i guess that was it), you can easly be hurt whenever your gm wants to challange you.
@Rameth I played with level 1 iconic barbarian amiri. My friend cast magic weapon on me then i moved into damage the slime in doomsday dawn.
You are just very battering blastable. Well i wouldnt use that on you as your gm. Probably. Well you cant be killed in your shadowform so maybe. I dont think i would allow ethical paradox protecting you from alignment shift too but well thats just me.
So basicly smash smash heal smash? Huh with two clerics that should be fun. That is ofcourse if people like clerics. Happy to hear you having fun with sombrefell.
EDIT:I am realy not seeing how ethical paradox protects you from alignment shift. I think the act itself(Which is casting a high level spell with an evil descriptor) causes the alignment shift. I dont how to see that as a spell effect. Am i wrong?
You know i am seeing each side calling others a minority. Please stop. Everyone on these forums are a minority.
EDIT:Just to be clear. All of us on these forum are part of the same minority. A lot of people never visits these forums.
EDIT 2: Calling other people minority doesnt help your arguments. It makes it look biased and makes it look like you are trying a little too hard to support your argument. Which it doesnt btw.
I am hurt to be honest. Reading the crb for all day. Nerf bat hurts man. Sure they didnt get the nerative power but casters are brought down a lot. Now a wizard has to wait a long time to have that kind of power and mundanes want the same kind of abilities at the same time wizard gets them? I am not sure if i would let that fly in my table.
EDIT: Maybe i need more time to read and playtest.
Spells are nerfed into the ground. Slots are limited. Durations are once per encounter. Now martials want to have world bending powers. I dont want players of martial characters to feel leftout but with all of the nerf bat going around here i dont know what to think of this.
Maybe in 2e we should keep the double standard. Since martials are already brought up.
Corwin Icewolf wrote:
I got to ask this. Do you think wizard or sorcerer is the source of all magic? What if fighter could forge magic weapons? Would that solve your issue? I am preaparing for mythic campaign as a gm. The issue that you pointed out is to be honest alien to me. I never had a player who had issues with magic items otherthan the WBL limiting those which is solveble. I am seeing a lot of people who dislikes magic items and i think this forum has a chance to effect my table. So at which point magic stops representing the wizard? Why is it so bad to need magic items in a high magic game where magic is everywhere otherthan the obvious WBL issue. Is it possiable to add magic to your martials in way that wont make you think the wizard? If it is possiable than how would you like it to be?
I am seeing a lot of people who dislikes magic items and they just say i want to do this x thing while some of them hate anime,some of them hate magic,some of them hate otherthings. You see there isnt exactly many things to go with here. Whatever you do you upset someone.
EDİT:I didnt use magic as synonym for magic items. I just meant anykind of magic. It could be in anyform.
Rob Godfrey wrote:
3-Yes casters usually prepared for almost anything when given the knowledge and the time to preapare for it but so is everyone else.
4-Where did you get the idea that i am making the BBEG an idiot?
Nerfing casters is a solution to making martials doing awesome things?
EDİT:People are saying that the original party is the fighter,rogue,wizard and the cleric. Half of that party are casters.
Many things you just said can be identified as a GM problem.
-Yes you can shoot that arrow. Why is this a question?
-You replace him or find someone or something that can fix that problem which a gm should put in his game.(demon king)
-There should be some magic items that can fix that survival issue and please stop acting like that every caster is ready for every situation there is. We prepare solutions to problems we expect to encounter.
-Story problems such as traveling to a different plane are gm problems. Gm is responsible with putting that solution to his/her game.
Bjørn Røyrvik wrote:
That summarizes my feelings aswell. Thank you.
Some people want certain kind of realism. It doesnt mean it is fair. They just dont like certain classes doing certain things.It is not bad that they want their fun in a certain way however that causes problems with people with different kinds of expectations.
Pazio just tries to give the classic fighter feeling. Honestly if i was in their place i would have done the same thing.
PS:I am not one of those people.
In PF 1e building a competent martial required a lot of system mastery,finding the best magical item in 600(or something like that) magical items and a lot of planing. I have met with people who thinks animal companions are better than fighters because of this. If we can avoid that then i am happy. I want my martials to be able do things in common fantasy tropes and some ridicules stuff with ease.
You bother because there are other people in your party.
Spell Roll: You make a spell roll when you’re testing the power of
You are right.When i was answering him i remembered this wrongly.
For instance, when the PCs’ level
CRB does mention skill dc's better than i remember. Sorry. Very earth it self doesnt scale with you.
Well...stealth isnt that much different than first edition. You usullay failed not because of your +900 stealth modifier but because of your fighter with 12 dex -5 acp and no investments to stealth anyway. Either that happened or that adventure turned into a hide and seek game while your party waits for you to finish it for like 30-40 minutes
This edition wants to challange you all the time at all levels.High levels of investment in one thing making you awesome is PF1e.PF 2e is more gamist than that.So naturally even the very earth itself scales with you and on a level challange means that you have a chance of doing that thing %50-%60 of the time.