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Here is my proposal.
Young: subtract 3 from all physical stats
Adolescent: subtract 2 from all physical stats
Teenager: subtract 1 from all physical stats
Mature: normal stats
Middle Aged: subtract 1 from all physical stats; add 1 to all mental stats
Old: subtract 2 from all physical stats; add 2 to all mental stats
Venerable: subtract 3 from all physical stats; add 3 to all mental stats
Because it's experience young people lack, not INT / WIS / CHA.
Cheers!
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I'd be happier seeing ability score modifiers from age disappear outright, because it's just yet another thing people use to minmax.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Here is my proposal.
Young: subtract 3 from all physical stats
Adolescent: subtract 2 from all physical stats
Teenager: subtract 1 from all physical stats
Mature: normal stats
Middle Aged: subtract 1 from all physical stats; add 1 to all mental stats
Old: subtract 2 from all physical stats; add 2 to all mental stats
Venerable: subtract 3 from all physical stats; add 3 to all mental statsBecause it's experience young people lack, not INT / WIS / CHA.
Cheers!
As a middle schooler, I would like -Wis/Str and +Dex. I think that fits best as we assess risk differently and frequently lack common sense. We are also, obviously, not as strong. However, we are more flexible and coordinated than most adults. Int, Cha, and Con don't really change by age IMO. What I don't want is +mental stats for older people. I want them to have +knowledge skills (I know their not called that anymore but that category).
Depending on how far retraining rules go, it seems like you could just tweak ability scores as characters age. Move a Str bonus to Wis at age 40,for instance.
I'd be happier seeing ability score modifiers from age disappear outright, because it's just yet another thing people use to minmax.
It's funny where we draw the lines. I am unapologetically a min/maxer but I would never use the age rules to do so.
I'd be happier seeing ability score modifiers from age disappear outright, because it's just yet another thing people use to minmax.
*Stares at Ezren* Something is fishy here...
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Ok ask yourself this:
What is the difference between a middle-schooler who is 1st level and one who is 5th level?
What is the difference between a teacher who is 1st level and one who is 5th level?There is no difference because 5th level middleschoolers and 5th level schoolteachers don't exist.
5th level is really pushing the absolute limits of the capabilities of the most exceptional of real world people.
Yeah this^^. The difference between a 2nd level and a 1st level is skills. 2nd level students (commoners) have better skills.
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Ok ask yourself this:
What is the difference between a middle-schooler who is 1st level and one who is 5th level?
What is the difference between a teacher who is 1st level and one who is 5th level?There is no difference because 5th level middleschoolers and 5th level schoolteachers don't exist.
5th level is really pushing the absolute limits of the capabilities of the most exceptional of real world people.
Despite your attempt to categorically exclude it, the question stands.
If it works better for your imagination, fellow gamer, substitute "adolescent" for "middle-schooler" and "adult" for "teacher."
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I'd be happier seeing ability score modifiers from age disappear outright, because it's just yet another thing people use to minmax.
As a DM, I like players to min/max to fit their character concepts, and I help them do so. Accordingly, while I disagree with your obvious opinion regarding min/maxing, I agree we do not need modifiers for age, albeit for different reasons. Characters are created as a snapshot in time and campaigns generally don't last more than half a dozen years, if that. You can easily incorporate age into your attribute allocation decisions, so there is no reason to adjust it further.
Retraining will hopefully also enable ability shifts over time, like +2/+2 and an optional additional +2/-2 at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th Level. That way, you can age your Wizard over time if you like.
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Then there's the fact that as they get into the higher levels characters are fundamentally becoming immortal beings beyond mortals and it stands to reason if a character doesn't become 'old' by level 9 they probably aren't going to deteriorate in capability from aging.I'd be happier seeing ability score modifiers from age disappear outright, because it's just yet another thing people use to minmax.As a DM, I like players to min/max to fit their character concepts, and I help them do so. Accordingly, while I disagree with your obvious opinion regarding min/maxing, I agree we do not need modifiers for age, albeit for different reasons. Characters are created as a snapshot in time and campaigns generally don't last more than half a dozen years, if that. You can easily incorporate age into your attribute allocation decisions, so there is no reason to adjust it further.
In your games maybe, they're talking about Pathfinder in general.
Conversely I wouldn't mind them making age modifiers completely different for every race.
You mean like spelling out at what age a dwarf or elf becomes an "adult"? I recall a thread about all the different ways to map various races' ages against each other.
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Conversely I wouldn't mind them making age modifiers completely different for every race.You mean like spelling out at what age a dwarf or elf becomes an "adult"? I recall a thread about all the different ways to map various races' ages against each other.
I meant more like, maybe the Dwarf gets a boost to CON and WIS and a penalty to STR and DEX as they progress through the age categories, for an off the cuff example.
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I enjoy the system where age doesn't count for stats at all, and you just use the stats you want to help represent your age.
Want to play an old character and you think being old means you're wiser but weaker? Dump strength, max out Wis. Done.
I am not fond of being forced to accept that concept, though. "Old man strength" is something I grew up knowing, and sometimes I want to play an old man who is strong as an ox. And I've met plenty of older folk with diminished mental qualities. I don't want to play an older PC who is forced to have a strength penality.
The only place this really breaks down is for the very young, which the game isn't really designed for anyways. So if you're playing the very young, then you're already going to house rule some ideas to compensate for it. Or you're going to use a 3PP, from which I highly recommend looking at anything Alexander Augunas has made, as he has done a fantastic job with young characters (Everyman Gaming).
I don't even think age modifiers are necessary. If you're telling a story about very old or very young characters you will probably make campaign specific rules for this anyway, and when it comes to NPCs you don't need to spell out how this person was 20 years ago/will be in 20 years.
my very first long term PC was like 13 in Fey Years. thing is, by human years that would be at least 13 centuries or even longer. so i convinced the GM to ignore aging modifiers entirely because stat penalties didn't make sense for a creature that had an untold amount of decades to grow accustomed to their body.
she had the highest intelligence and charisma in the group and was one of several characters with a high dexterity. the reason her strength and constitution were low didn't have to do with her young age or her petite frame but with the fact she was a sicklier than normal member of her race and even then, other than a strength penalty that was cancelled out through skilled selection and a variety of inherent bonuses, her constitution was still a 10 or 12 and raised in a similar manner. i didn't need a 6 constitution to have her cough up blood, i did it as a roleplay thing for spell fumbles. this was like 2e, and she was a Thief/Mage who accessed a drow exclusive kit that was closer to mixing assassin and illusionist but took forever to level. she needed 6,000 experience to reach level 2 and had d4's for hit dice, but she could use spells to set up at will backstabs with death attack side effects whenever she pleased.
Age modifiers can help get around the 'baby with 20 strength' situation we recently got in D&D 5e :D
To be honest, I just hope we will be able to adjust and change party members age (such as alchemist's Potion of Youth reducing 10 years from anyone who drinks it), not just "your character does not age" at level 20 for the chosen few casters as it was the case in PF1.
What, somebody uses age modifiers? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA well that was funny, I laughed.
It is kind of funny. I mean most 18 year olds in a typical Pathfinder game based on an AP are Level 1 and most 19 year olds are level 20.
But there are alternative game settings. If you've ever looked at the Pendragon game (which can be adapted to D&D/Pathfinder) characters adventure once per summer and then spend the rest of the year tending to their holdings.
You age a year after each adventure. This tends to lead to characters forming a family, having children, and then eventually a legacy to leave to an heir. Pendragon's age mechanics are meant to eventually lead to death.
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It is kind of funny. I mean most 18 year olds in a typical Pathfinder game based on an AP are Level 1 and most 19 year olds are level 20.
But there are alternative game settings. If you've ever looked at the Pendragon game (which can be adapted to D&D/Pathfinder) characters adventure once per summer and then spend the rest of the year tending to their holdings.
You age a year after each adventure. This tends to lead to characters forming a family, having children, and then eventually a legacy to leave to an heir. Pendragon's age mechanics are meant to eventually lead to death.
Doing an AP like that could be really interesting. I've been thinking lately of a Local Heroes AP, based on a town and played out over a decade or more, which could be interesting with this concept of play. The PCs being called upon to deal with various threats, but only once in a while. Likely a bigger threat that takes a long time to reveal itself fully. And in between they deal with life; things like managing a farm or business, completing a magical education and then teaching themselves or moving up the ranks of the clergy, maybe going into public office etc. The time-frame would be tricky for a standard AP. Likely you'd have to start in the setting's past. Maybe start in 4674 (Golarion's 1974) and work your way up, possibly even switching characters to the offspring of the originals at one point. "Our parents dealt with this evil before, but now that it's back, it's up to us!"
Or even if you stay with the same characters, it could be fun to 'get the band back together' when everyone is past their prime. The Paladin Bolon the Bold is now Bolon the Bald, the wizard has a bad hip and the great tracker now has vision problems, but the town is under threat again, and they're the only ones capable of dealing with it.
I don't mind age categories, but the bonuses/penalties need to go.
If you want to play an old wise individual, who happens to be physically weak then increase your wisdom/int and descrese your str/con/dex accordingly to represent that character, but do it within the same frame work that other characters get.
I'm really tired of seeing old wizards with the bonus to int who uses spells to literally ignore the penalties of getting old. It's basically a min maxer's tool for casters that I never see applied to other characters.
Just use Starfinder stat generation (which doesn't include age modifiers) and be done with it.
The time-frame would be tricky for a standard AP. Likely you'd have to start in the setting's past. Maybe start in 4674 (Golarion's 1974) and work your way up, possibly even switching characters to the offspring of the originals at one point. "Our parents dealt with this evil before, but now that it's back, it's up to us!"
You could again look to Pendragon. They run through history, Arthur's father, the rise and fall of Arthur, grail quests, etc. The PCs participate in historical battles and the outcomes don't change, but the PCs acts/feats/glory within those battles helps establish their reputation.
So perhaps pick an interesting part of Golarion history that pre-dates the current timeline.