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I've done a bunch of searching and reading on this already and think I know the answer, but I want confirmation in case there's something I'm missing.
This is all assuming one has reloads as a free action (rapid reload + alchemical cartridges).
The majority of what I read seems to indicate that you can NOT fire both barrels simultaneously (for the -4 to each shot) in successive attacks in a full attack action, like when you get multiple attacks from BAB at level 6 and above, or extra attacks from Rapid Shot or Haste. Some threads seemed to indicated that it was ok, but the majority said no, or at least that it's a GM decision.
So if that's the case, and if reloads are free, you're better off shooting only 1 barrel at a time and with free reloads that's no different/better than a single barrel pistol.
And shooting each barrel separately does NOT give any extra attacks during either a normal standard attack action or a full attack, correct? I believe firing a single barrel is considered a normal standard attack action, correct?
The double-barrel might be okay before one has free reloads, just for a bit of extra flexibility of occasionally not having to reload between shots if you're in a tight spot. But once you have free reloads there seems to be no advantage to a double-barrel when making a full attack.
The double-barrel might still be good if, for example you need to move and fire so cannot take a full attack, but could still fire both barrels as a standard action.
But outside of the occasional use, I see no advantage to a double-barrel over single barrel if one cannot fire both barrels with each attack in a full attack action.
Am I correct in that thinking, or am I missing something? Has something come out at some point that definitively indicates that we CAN shoot both barrels with each attack of a full attack action?
Thanks much!
You are not correct.
The double barreled pistol is extremely powerful. If you have multiple attacks, you can fire both barrels simultaneously multiple times as long as you have rapid reload and are using alchemical cartridges. Some (bad) GM's may try and NERF you by telling you that you can't fire both barrels multiple times. This would be a house rule though and is not RAW.
Quote: Musket, Double-Barreled: This musket has two parallel barrels; each barrel can be shot independently as separate attacks, or both can be fired at once as a standard action (the attack action). If both barrels are fired at once, they must both target the same creature or object, and the gun becomes wildly inaccurate, taking a –4 penalty on each shot. Each barrel of a double-barreled musket uses either a bullet and a single dose of black powder or an alchemical cartridge as ammunition. Quote: Double-barreled Muskets and other Double-Barreled Weapons: In the third printing of Ultimate Combat, double-barreled musket’s wording received an erratum to clarify, but not double-barreled pistol or shotgun, which have similar wording. Should they also use the double-barreled musket’s erratum?
Yes, all three should use the new wording from double-barreled musket.
The only real advantage of a single barrel pistol over a double barreled pistol is your lower misfire chance. In every other metric, it is worse.
People used to make gunslingers that had two weapon fighting and they would use weapon cords to: 1. Fire both barrels on your right hand pistol 2. Rapid reload the pistol 3. Fire both barrels again 4. Rapid reload 5. Drop the pistol (connected to the weapon cord) 6. Use a swift action to retrieve your left hand pistol (connected to wrist with weapon cord) 7. Fire both barrels of the left hand pistol 8. Rapid reload 9. Fire both barrels again 10. Rapid reload 10. End turn and repeat next turn.
Everybody frowns on this and most GM's (rightly) don't allow this abuse. Maybe you were mistaking firing double barrels multiple times for this?
You should read Helpful Harry's post. Firing both barrels of a double barrel pistols can only be done as a standard action now. It was nerfed.
Ouch. This basically means that the gunslinger won't be able to keep up with the other damage dealing classes. My Gunslinger Paladin kept up damage wise with the melee fighters. Time to scrap her. Back to the Zen Archer build for ranged.
And weapon cords were nerfed so that retrieving a weapon is a move action and not a swift.
Thanks much all!
No, I wasn't confusing TWF for double-barrel. I had read all of that on TWF too, but most of the threads were very early posts back when gunslinger first came out, and I had seen more recent threads about the TWF being clarified and made harder. There still seem to be ways to make it happen (spells/enchantments/items), but based on everything I'd read, I've concluded that even if TWF with pistols might be technically possible, it's not in the intended spirit. Instead, work on getting more attacks (Rapid Shot/Haste) and/or damage bonuses.
And yeah, I thought I read somewhere too about firing both barrels during a full attack action being nerfed, I couldn't remember for sure.
The only other way I'd see the double-barrel as benefiting is if it actaully gave an extra attack during a full-attack action. But I'm pretty sure that's not true either is it?
So that leads me back to my original realization that, with the possible occasional exception in certain situations, there's really no advantage of a double-barrel over single-barrel with reloads as a free action?
Thanks again!
Dajur wrote: Ouch. This basically means that the gunslinger won't be able to keep up with the other damage dealing classes. My Gunslinger Paladin kept up damage wise with the melee fighters. Time to scrap her. Back to the Zen Archer build for ranged. I'm sorry, but this is completely wrong. An optimized TWF pistol build is still one of the best single target damage dealers in the game, and way ahead of archery builds.
I made some sample 16th level calculations for this thread a while ago, and both Musket Master and TWF Pistolero managed to kill an average CR16 monster in one round. Beast Totem Barbarian, Ascetic Style unMonk, and bomber Alchemist managed to do that too, while Zen Archer did around half that damage.
Note: There's literally no mechanical reason to stay in-class after 5th level, so there's significant room for improvement still.
Zaphod42 wrote: The only other way I'd see the double-barrel as benefiting is if it actaully gave an extra attack during a full-attack action. But I'm pretty sure that's not true either is it? They specifically nerfed it to not grant a benefit on a full-attack.
Zaphod42 wrote: based on everything I'd read, I've concluded that even if TWF with pistols might be technically possible, it's not in the intended spirit. Who knows? Dual wielding revolvers is pretty iconic, and early firearms make no sense in Pathfinder's usual setting(s), anyway.
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Some items to consider from People Of The Wastes:
Gun Chemist (Alchemist archetype) discovery available with a 2 level dip
Chemical Stability: When firing an alchemical ordnance, the gun chemist reduces the misfire value of the firearm by 1 (minimum 0) and ignores any increased misfire value from using an alchemical cartridge.
Create Enhanced Firearm feat
Prerequisite(s): Craft Magic Arms and Armor; Craft (weapons) 1 rank or Gunsmithing.
Benefit(s): When you craft a firearm or magical firearm, you can use reinforced components to make the weapon more reliable. This increases the item’s total construction cost by 10%. The misfire chance of the weapon is reduced by 1. This can never reduce a firearm’s misfire chance by more than 1.
The latter will cost you an extra feat, but it's worth considering if you expect to have crafting time available.
As for myself, I've always thought the "get out after 5th level" was overly harsh. I'm a big fan of Bleeding Wound. Ability Damage bleed (you can inflict multiple types simultaneously, given enough iterative attacks) either puts your enemies on a rather harsh timer for them or burns through their action economy if they want to heal it.
A double-barrel pistol is still better any time you need to move. You can still do both barrels as a standard action, so move and fire both.
If you're full-attacking, they're no better nor worse than regular pistols.
Actually they are worse than regular pistols due to the higher misfire chance (1-2 vs 1). I'd take the lower self-explosion/automiss chance over a little extra damage on the move, but personal preference I guess.
Can we vital strike on the double barrel standard action? They both reference the attack action.
I'd use them for any build that has the other hand occupied so you can't reload.
Savage Technologist Barbarian comes to mind.
Sword in one hand, gun in the other.
Shoot at things out of melee.
Full attack twf with sword and gun when in base to base.
So you have two rounds of shooting. You should be in melee range at that point and as stated can shoot while in melee. Most combats are over in 3 rounds anyways.
So one round of not shooting. Drop gun and two hand your sword. :)
Or have a spare loaded double barrel pistol with quick draw and start shooting again. :)
Firebug wrote: Can we vital strike on the double barrel standard action? They both reference the attack action. Yes. Still only useful when you need to move, of course.
Derklord wrote: Firebug wrote: Can we vital strike on the double barrel standard action? They both reference the attack action. Yes. Still only useful when you need to move, of course. well yes and no, one needs 6 levels in a prestige class to be able to vital strike on the 2 attacks as a standard action ability
No, the item says that the barrels "both can be fired at once as a standard action (the attack action)." - see the part in parantheses? Vital Strike says "When you use the attack action (...)", and thus works with double barrel firearms.
thistledown wrote: A double-barrel pistol is still better any time you need to move. You can still do both barrels as a standard action, so move and fire both.
If you're full-attacking, they're no better nor worse than regular pistols.
Thanks for all of the additional information everyone! This quoted post pretty much sums my thinking.
One other potential use I thought of, though VERY situational, was to hold 2 different kinds of ammunition going into a situation where you're not sure which you'll need. For example, regular ammo and a blanched or enchanted ammo. It saves either wasting a first shot using the wrong ammo, or having to unload and reload (even if UNloading is a free action, would UNloading without actually firing be considered a free action? I'm thinking not). But I also wouldn't get a double-barrel just to use for this purpose.
Derklord wrote: No, the item says that the barrels "both can be fired at once as a standard action (the attack action)." - see the part in parantheses? Vital Strike says "When you use the attack action (...)", and thus works with double barrel firearms. This pistol has two parallel barrels; each barrel can be fired independently as separate attacks, or both can be fired at once as a standard action (the attack action).
Benefit: When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage. Roll the weapon’s damage dice for the attack twice and add the results together before adding bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as flaming), precision-based damage, and other damage bonuses. These extra weapon damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, but are added to the total.
the two abilities conflict with each other, you need other special abilities to make them work together
But can you use vital strike for double barrel weapons?
DoubleBubble wrote: But can you use vital strike for double barrel weapons? with a special ability that allows you to make vital strikes with any standard action yes, with out that ability no
Lady-J wrote: DoubleBubble wrote: But can you use vital strike for double barrel weapons? with a special ability that allows you to make vital strikes with any standard action yes, with out that ability no Are there such thing that allow you to do that? I think double barrel is good for gunslinger, but otherwise, not so good. The double barrel mechanic doesn't make sense. How can you make two attack rolls at the same target with that you try to attack at once? Should have been just one roll with penalty to attack for double damage. Not only it will make sense and bring immersion, also bring back vital strike feats without more feat tax.
DoubleBubble wrote: Lady-J wrote: DoubleBubble wrote: But can you use vital strike for double barrel weapons? with a special ability that allows you to make vital strikes with any standard action yes, with out that ability no Are there such thing that allow you to do that? I think double barrel is good for gunslinger, but otherwise, not so good. The double barrel mechanic doesn't make sense. How can you make two attack rolls at the same target with that you try to attack at once? Should have been just one roll with penalty to attack for double damage. Not only it will make sense and bring immersion, also bring back vital strike feats without more feat tax. there is a prestige class that does just that, allows vital strike on anything that's done as a standard action, with out it you can only use vital strike on one attack and you only get to make one attack when vital striking
If that's Heritor Knight it's only on melee attacks, Lady-J. If it's some other PrC I'd love to know what it is.
avr wrote: If that's Heritor Knight it's only on melee attacks, Lady-J. If it's some other PrC I'd love to know what it is. well dang, then there is no way to get vital strike on a double pistol then(for the part that matters at least)
So, I just read this again. Could one potentially use the double-barrel pistol, and fire each barrel separately, at different times during the same round, using the Leaping Shot Grit feat?
Quote: You gain a +2 bonus on Acrobatics checks made to jump. As a full-round action, you can move up to your speed and make firearm attacks at your highest base attack bonus with each loaded firearm you are wielding. You can make these attacks at any point during your movement, and if you are wielding two firearms, you can make the attacks at different points during the movement. At the end of this movement, you fall prone. This deed costs 1 grit point to perform. Could the two barrels be treated as if having two separate weapons based on the phrases I bold-faced?
This feat does require Dodge and Mobility as pre-req's, so it may not be a great choice. That's not the question. The question is purely IF one wants to go this route, would it work that way with a DB pistol. (There are several other feats that require both Dodge and Mobility too, so if one wants to go that route in general, then Leaping Shot may not be a stretech to add on.)
DoubleBubble wrote: But can you use vital strike for double barrel weapons? Yes you can. Lady-J just likes to ignore what's actually written.
DBP says you can use them as the attack action, and Vital Strikes asks for the attack action.
The only thing possibly preventing it is the wording "you can make one attack". Thing is, if you interpret the special shot as two seperate attacks, it basically breaks the game (the actions in combat rules in the CRB, to be precise). Ironically, if you use that part of Vital Strike's text to use four your argumehnt, no ability like Heritor Knight's would help.
@Zaphod42: You're only wielding one firearm, so the "different parts during the movement" part is out. The thing is, the feat doesn't say you only get to make one attack per firearm, and as your DBP is still loaded after the first shot, I don't see any text preventing you from making a second shot.
Derklord wrote: @Zaphod42: You're only wielding one firearm, so the "different parts during the movement" part is out. If you count it as a single weapon, you could still make the two attacks and move with it if you have a second firearm, like a Buckler gun. It doesn't actually require attacking with two weapons, just wielding them.
Derklord wrote: DoubleBubble wrote: But can you use vital strike for double barrel weapons? Yes you can. Lady-J just likes to ignore what's actually written.
DBP says you can use them as the attack action, and Vital Strikes asks for the attack action.
The only thing possibly preventing it is the wording "you can make one attack". Thing is, if you interpret the special shot as two seperate attacks, it basically breaks the game (the actions in combat rules in the CRB, to be precise). Ironically, if you use that part of Vital Strike's text to use four your argumehnt, no ability like Heritor Knight's would help.
@Zaphod42: You're only wielding one firearm, so the "different parts during the movement" part is out. The thing is, the feat doesn't say you only get to make one attack per firearm, and as your DBP is still loaded after the first shot, I don't see any text preventing you from making a second shot. its two seperate attacks made as a standard action, vital strike is one single attack as a standard action, you can not combine 2 standard actions at the same time
DoubleBubble wrote: But can you use vital strike for double barrel weapons? I imagine that the PDT would answer no, citing that they are two different attack actions, if a FAQ were addressed to it.
Dajur wrote: Everybody frowns on this and most GM's (rightly) don't allow this abuse. Says you. Nothing wrong with that, but why bother, i have dual-wield gunslinger who just uses Gun Twirling and Quick Draw to stove and retrieve his guns at will.
In any case, when i GM i ignore most of the errata from 2015 and later years (especially weapon cord and crane wing).
Lady-J wrote: its two seperate attacks made as a standard action, vital strike is one single attack as a standard action, you can not combine 2 standard actions at the same time Without the part in parantheses in the DBP description, that would be correct, but they explicitly call it the attack action. Yes, the wording is kinda weird, but if it's not supposed to stack with Vital Strike et al, the text in parantheses has no right or reason to exist.
TriOmegaZero wrote: I imagine that the PDT would answer no, citing that they are two different attack actions, if a FAQ were addressed to it. Seeing how they allowed everything that's even remotely a full-attack action, even when explicitly called otherwise (Spell Combat), to benefit from Haste (which modifes an existing FAA), I don't see them disallowing Vital Stike, which modifies an existing attack action, to not work with something that's explicitly called attack action.
Derklord wrote: Lady-J wrote: its two seperate attacks made as a standard action, vital strike is one single attack as a standard action, you can not combine 2 standard actions at the same time Without the part in parantheses in the DBP description, that would be correct, but they explicitly call it the attack action. Yes, the wording is kinda weird, but if it's not supposed to stack with Vital Strike et al, the text in parantheses has no right or reason to exist.
its both are called out as being attack actions, ie standard actions, so you would need to have 2 standards to use both and even then you would get the 2 attacks from the double function then you would get one attack with vital strike, you can not used vital strike with any other action that takes a standard action other then one singular normal attack, unless you have an ability that states you can do otherwise like the hekitor knights ability to apply it to any and all melee abilities that use a standard action
Lady-J wrote: its both are called out as being attack actions This is objectively false. The "when" in "When you use the attack action" makes the sentence conditional, which means Vital Strike is not an action in itself.
Vital Strike is a specific standard action, so they would likely bar it from use with a double-barreled shot.
TriOmegaZero wrote: Vital Strike is a specific standard action, so they would likely bar it from use with a double-barreled shot. Funny, my copy of the CRB does not contain the word "standard" in Vital Strike's description.
Also, this FAQ says "Vital Strike can only be used as part of an attack action". Do you know what the words "part of" mean? If Vital Strike was it's own action, how could it possibly be part of another action?
Here's the thing though, the Firing of both barrels at once is Called an Attack Action, while the Condition for Vital Strike is "When you use the Attack Action." So if you fire both barrels of the DBP at once, you are specifically using the Attack Action, and since Vital Strike Triggers on the Attack Action, it should literally by RAW work. >.>
Also per the posted FAQ, it is the exact same action an Attack Action, soooo it Should Work. Since firing both barrels Should (because it is referenced in its description as one) Count as the Attack Action that Vital Strike Needs to work.
Derklord wrote: TriOmegaZero wrote: Vital Strike is a specific standard action, so they would likely bar it from use with a double-barreled shot. Funny, my copy of the CRB does not contain the word "standard" in Vital Strike's description.
Also, this FAQ says "Vital Strike can only be used as part of an attack action". Do you know what the words "part of" mean? If Vital Strike was it's own action, how could it possibly be part of another action? "which is a specific kind of standard action", just like I said. I was specifically referencing that FAQ.
Also note that I have at no point made a claim about what the rules say, so your ad hominem is rude and off base.
vital strike also calls out a single attack, when you fire both barrels of a weapon they are two separate attacks as a standard action and each take a -4 to hit, so you are not making an attack you are making two attacks thus not usable with vital strike
Lady-J wrote: vital strike also calls out a single attack, when you fire both barrels of a weapon they are two separate attacks as a standard action and each take a -4 to hit, so you are not making an attack you are making two attacks thus not usable with vital strike I tend to agree with the others. I'm not sure where you're getting the "two separate attacks" when firing both barrels at the same time. Nothing in the DB pistol description says that it is two separate attacks when firing both barrels at the same time. In fact, the description explicitly says that it is "the attack action", which I think would by definition mean that it's a single attack.
DB Pistol description:
Quote: This pistol has two parallel barrels; each barrel can be fired independently as separate attacks, or both can be fired at once as a standard action (the attack action).
If both barrels are shot at once, they must both target the same creature or object, and the pistol becomes wildly inaccurate, imparting a –4 penalty on each shot.
As the description states, it is only separate attacks if each barrel is fired separately. Per the phrase that I bold-faced, to me, this wording clearly indicates that firing both barrels at the same time is a SINGLE attack using "the attack action", not two separate attacks. It may be logical in the real world to think that it's two separate attacks, but real world has no implications on the game rules. By my reading, the rules explicitly state that firing both barrels at the same time is a single attack using "the attack action."
Vital Strike description:
Quote: When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage. Roll the weapon’s damage dice for the attack twice and add the results together before adding bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as flaming), precision-based damage, and other damage bonuses. These extra weapon damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, but are added to the total. As has been pointed out in so many other threads about Vital Strike, "the attack action" is a specific action defined by the rules to which Vital Strike applies. This same action is called out in parentheses in the DB pistol description in regard to firing both barrels at the same time.
The phrase "the attack action" can't reference a single attack for one item and multiple attacks for another item. "The attack action" is a clearly defined action by the rules and has the same meaning no matter where it's used. Since both descriptions clearly mention "the attack action", I'd say that Vital Strike can be used when shooting both barrels at the same time.
Zaphod42 wrote: Lady-J wrote: vital strike also calls out a single attack, when you fire both barrels of a weapon they are two separate attacks as a standard action and each take a -4 to hit, so you are not making an attack you are making two attacks thus not usable with vital strike I tend to agree with the others. I'm not sure where you're getting the "two separate attacks" when firing both barrels at the same time. Nothing in the DB pistol description says that it is two separate attacks when firing both barrels at the same time. In fact, the description explicitly says that it is "the attack action", which I think would by definition mean that it's a single attack.
DB Pistol description:
Quote: This pistol has two parallel barrels; each barrel can be fired independently as separate attacks, or both can be fired at once as a standard action (the attack action).
If both barrels are shot at once, they must both target the same creature or object, and the pistol becomes wildly inaccurate, imparting a –4 penalty on each shot.
As the description states, it is only separate attacks if each barrel is fired separately. Per the phrase that I bold-faced, to me, this wording clearly indicates that firing both barrels at the same time is a SINGLE attack using "the attack action", not two separate attacks. It may be logical in the real world to think that it's two separate attacks, but real world has no implications on the game rules. By my reading, the rules explicitly state that firing both barrels at the same time is a single attack using "the attack action."
If both barrels are shot at once, they must both target the same creature or object, and the pistol becomes wildly inaccurate, imparting a –4 penalty on each shot each shot=2 shots= not a single attack
Lady-J wrote: Quote: If both barrels are shot at once, they must both target the same creature or object, and the pistol becomes wildly inaccurate, imparting a –4 penalty on each shot each shot=2 shots= not a single attack
I guess interpret what you will, but the vast majority don't see it that way. The explicit statement that it's "the attack action" overrides that little statement about "each shot". "Shot" is not the same as "attack".
Even comparing to real world, it makes sense that it's a single attack. The gun has 2 triggers, a separate trigger for each barrel. To fire both barrels at the same time, the wielder pulls both triggers at exactly the same time. This is a single "attack."
But there are still 2 separate bullets. It's entirely possible that one bullet could hit and the other could miss. Thus each bullet, or "shot" is rolled separately.
The -4 is because the kickback from firing both barrels at the same time is that much more, thus throwing off the aim.
I guess in the end, it's a GM decision.
Zaphod42 wrote: Lady-J wrote: Quote: If both barrels are shot at once, they must both target the same creature or object, and the pistol becomes wildly inaccurate, imparting a –4 penalty on each shot each shot=2 shots= not a single attack
I guess interpret what you will, but the vast majority don't see it that way. The explicit statement that it's "the attack action" overrides that little statement about "each shot". "Shot" is not the same as "attack".
Even comparing to real world, it makes sense that it's a single attack. The gun has 2 triggers, a separate trigger for each barrel. To fire both barrels at the same time, the wielder pulls both triggers at exactly the same time. This is a single "attack."
But there are still 2 separate bullets. It's entirely possible that one bullet could hit and the other could miss. Thus each bullet, or "shot" is rolled separately.
The -4 is because the kickback from firing both barrels at the same time is that much more, thus throwing off the aim.
I guess in the end, it's a GM decision.
the attacks are rolled separately each with a -4 penalty, you are rolling 2 attack rolls there for its no longer a single attack, if you could find a way to get many shot as a standard with a bow then yes it would work, one attack roll, one attack but for the double barrel gun no
Firing both barrels is a single attack. You roll both attack dice at the same time, as opposed to taking one attack, determining whether it hits, dealing damage, and then taking a second attack.
Dajur wrote: Firing both barrels is a single attack. You roll both attack dice at the same time, as opposed to taking one attack, determining whether it hits, dealing damage, and then taking a second attack. doesn't matter if it happends at the same time they are still two separate attacks, if they were ment to be one attack it would have the wording of manyshot were its one attack roll and if it misses both shots miss bit if it hits both shots hit, it is not worded like many shot however there for they are two separate individual attacks that just so happen to be made at the same time, just like the two weapon warrior ability double strike
I know this thread is a few months old, but we (myself and my GM, my GM is the one who actually pointed it out to me) found another advantage of the DB pistol over the single barrel. That is, to help with misfire situations.
The DB is 2 separate barrels. Earlier posts established that during a full attack, you're only ever firing a single barrel and just keep reloading the same barrel (with free reloads). Thus, if you misfire in the middle of a "full attack", you can still keep attacking with the other barrel.
For example, I'm level 9 right now, so I have 3 attacks in a "full attack". 1st attack hits, 2nd attack misfires, I can still make the 3rd attack with the other barrel.
With a single-barrel pistol, the attack would have ended as soon as the misfire happened.
It also means I don't NEED to quickclear the misfire immediately if we're in a tight battle. I can keep fighting until either we finish the battle, or until the other barrel also misfires, at which point I can either quickclear only 1 barrel if I'm tight on time, or spend 1 full round clearing both barrels (with using 1 grit to clear 1 barrel as a move action but still being able to clear the other barrel as a standard action).
Zaphod42 wrote: I know this thread is a few months old, but we (myself and my GM, my GM is the one who actually pointed it out to me) found another advantage of the DB pistol over the single barrel. That is, to help with misfire situations.
The DB is 2 separate barrels. Earlier posts established that during a full attack, you're only ever firing a single barrel and just keep reloading the same barrel (with free reloads). Thus, if you misfire in the middle of a "full attack", you can still keep attacking with the other barrel.
For example, I'm level 9 right now, so I have 3 attacks in a "full attack". 1st attack hits, 2nd attack misfires, I can still make the 3rd attack with the other barrel.
With a single-barrel pistol, the attack would have ended as soon as the misfire happened.
It also means I don't NEED to quickclear the misfire immediately if we're in a tight battle. I can keep fighting until either we finish the battle, or until the other barrel also misfires, at which point I can either quickclear only 1 barrel if I'm tight on time, or spend 1 full round clearing both barrels (with using 1 grit to clear 1 barrel as a move action but still being able to clear the other barrel as a standard action).
The whole gun gains the broken condition, not just 1 barrel. So you still take the negatives to hit and if you misfire again it breaks
Name Violation wrote: The whole gun gains the broken condition, not just 1 barrel. So you still take the negatives to hit and if you misfire again it breaks Well, that's how *I* was playing it. It was my GM who, one time I said "misfire", then said "don't you have another barrel? You can keep firing with that."
But I do think you're right. I'll have to mention it to him.
Honestly, I also forgot I could still attack with a "broken" gun, just at a penalty and increased further misfire value. I do remember doing that early on, but I had forgotten recently and if I misfired I just ended my attack (again, until the GM mentioned the other barrel).
I´ve got a question pushing the vital strike issue further, as well as flaming and Full Attack action.
Some background: I got a gun scavenger and I'm looking at using a DBP. I can make it flaming, and I can take Vital Strike. I'm using a standard attack action on my turn and then deciding if I want to make it a Full Attack or not.
Now, to rulings:
"Attack
Making an attack is a standard action."
"Deciding between an Attack or a Full Attack
After your first attack, you can decide to take a move action instead of making your remaining attacks, depending on how the first attack turns out and assuming you have not already taken a move action this round. If you’ve already taken a 5-foot step, you can’t use your move action to move any distance, but you could still use a different kind of move action."
"Vital Strike
Benefit: When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage. Roll the weapon’s damage dice for the attack twice and add the results together before adding bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as flaming), precision-based damage, and other damage bonuses. These extra weapon damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, but are added to the total."
"Flaming
Upon command, a flaming weapon is sheathed in fire that deals an extra 1d6 points of fire damage on a successful hit. The fire does not harm the wielder. The effect remains until another command is given."
Keywords that are confusing:
""Deciding between an Attack or a Full Attack": its not written ONE attack or putting plural on attacks, so it should be RAW as the ATTACK ACTION and the FULL ATTACK ACTION. R or W?
Also note that the "Attack" word as well as the "Full Attack" words starts with capital letters.
"deals an extra 1d6 points of fire damage on a successful hit": it says HIT not ATTACK.
Questions/Scenarios:
So, assuming shooting 2 bullets with DBP is one attack: Can I start with a "standard action", triggering vital strike AND THEN PROCEED by making the "full attack" (not using DB shots, but still making use of the remainder of multiple attacks?)
And how does that work with a flaming DBP?
Tl, dr:
If DB shooting was 2 attacks, I think we would all agree that flaming would proc twice, BUT...
If DB shooting is 1 attack, can you argue that a single attack doesn't imply a single hit, so you could proc flame DMG twice if both bullets HIT?
If Full Attack starts with a standard Attack action, can you use DBP with VS on your first shot , and then proceed to do the remainder of the attacks (not using DB shots or proc.ing VS)?
Thanks in advance! =)
I'm not sure in how going from the Attack Action to Full Attack Action works, so I'll let someone else answer.
As for uses for Double-Barrel. A Spellslinger is able to enchant each barrel with a different thing, this is specially useful when creatures with different weaknesses. There is the Shieldmarshal's Pistol, which gives a free deed feat, very useful when feat starved.
Depending on how its ruled, an Eldritch Archer gains the ability to shoot 2 rays with a single action.
It's also useful for things like surprise rounds, where you can start with you gun in hand and immediately make 2 shots.
Otherwise, the second shot is able to hold special ammunition as was suggested previously. Ex: Mage Shot (Acid), or a Poison Bullet from the Poison Shot deed.
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