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So, to preface this before before people start calling me a pervert or something, I've been a nudist for many years now. I've played nudists in PF campaigns, while I myself was fully nude in a group of eight people, all of which were comfortable with it.
This is NOT a sexual thing.
Now, with how socially progressive the majority of cultures seem to be in Starfinder, I am curious as to how nudists would be received in most places.
It appears that at some level at least, social nudity seems to be ok when it comes down to certain aliens and races, as well as communal showers on space ships and stations.
A Skittermander doesn't seem to need clothing to go around in any areas. Would a human require clothing in a Skittermander-controlled area? If it's ok for some to go sans-clothing, shouldn't it be ok for the rest as well?
One designer of SF at least seems to be fine with nudity, as James Sutter participated in a naked bike ride while covered in Star Trek body paint.
What do you folks think? Do you agree, disagree, or am I just nuts?
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I'm fine with nudity.
Besides, good luck finding clothes that fit a space jellyfish, or putting trousers on a giant crystalline worm.
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My only problems with nudity in Starfinder is 1) that it reduces/eliminates the option for appearances by Elim Garak, which is too terrible to contemplate, and b) you now can't spontaneously break into dancing while shouting "SPACE PANTS!".
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My only problems with nudity in Starfinder is 1) that it reduces/eliminates the option for appearances by Elim Garak, which is too terrible to contemplate, and b) you now can't spontaneously break into dancing while shouting "SPACE PANTS!".
Of course you can do the second one. Just because you aren't WEARING your space pants doesn't mean you don't HAVE them. You can toss them like confetti at the end of the dance!
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The day I wear pants is the day the aliens win!
And I won't let that happen!!
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The funny thing is, it would probably only bother members of the actual species. Species that are very similar to each other might not get away with it (near-human species) without a little social shaming, but 1-2 of them living among a different species could flap in the wind and probably never be questioned.
Just as humans don't care that animals run around naked as hell all of the time.
The funny thing is, it would probably only bother members of the actual species. Species that are very similar to each other might not get away with it (near-human species) without a little social shaming, but 1-2 of them living among a different species could flap in the wind and probably never be questioned.
Just as humans don't care that animals run around naked as hell all of the time.
I feel like it would be more acceptable among Xenodruids/Wardens no matter where they are or who they are with. I mean, when you go around in giant, living ships and have power armor made from plants, I don't really see them putting on some space pants for every-day wear, ya know?
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I imagine most humanoid cultures probably endorse the wearing of clothes. Mostly because most cultures/races are still pretty much humans of a different variety, and are probably going to regard nudist the same way a majority of cultures tend to regard it.
Even if it's not an issue of modest clothing provides some great benefits:
1) Protection from the elements (whether it be rain, cold, or space) armor/clothes help with this.
2) Pockets. Clothes can be very useful for carrying around stuff.
With regard to skittermanders specifically, they probably get a pass due to being covered in fur despite being humanoid.
All in all, regardless of whether or not your character wears clothing, I would expect almost all adventurers to wear a space armor 99% of the time for protection.
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I for one refuse to wear pants! Kilts forever!
I imagine most humanoid cultures probably endorse the wearing of clothes. Mostly because most cultures/races are still pretty much humans of a different variety, and are probably going to regard nudist the same way a majority of cultures tend to regard it.
Even if it's not an issue of modest clothing provides some great benefits:
1) Protection from the elements (whether it be rain, cold, or space) armor/clothes help with this.
2) Pockets. Clothes can be very useful for carrying around stuff.With regard to skittermanders specifically, they probably get a pass due to being covered in fur despite being humanoid.
All in all, regardless of whether or not your character wears clothing, I would expect almost all adventurers to wear a space armor 99% of the time for protection.
Protection from elements doesn't really factor in if you're spending most of your life aboard a climate-controlled space ship or station. Skittermanders was just one example of races that can go sans-clothing. Dragonkin, Greys, Barathu, Formians... There are many races who don't wear clothing.
Also, I'm talking about strictly clothing for every-day wear. Not armor or protective clothing. Obviously if I'm going somewhere that'll kill me without protective wear, I'm gonna put it on.
Honestly, those kinds of answers always make me imagine that people just assume us nudists are fine standing knee-deep in snow while naked.
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2) Pockets. Clothes can be very useful for carrying around stuff.
Hideaway limbs can eliminate the need for pockets. Sure, augmentation is more expensive, but that shouldn't be a problem for a successful adventurer.
Question: Does a person still qualify as nude if they are wearing a backpack (and nothing else)?
2) Pockets. Clothes can be very useful for carrying around stuff.Hideaway limbs can eliminate the need for pockets. Sure, augmentation is more expensive, but that shouldn't be a problem for a successful adventurer.
Question: Does a person still qualify as nude if they are wearing a backpack (and nothing else)?
I meant to mention backpacks. To me, at least, that still qualifies as nude if you're just wearing a backpack. There are also nudists who wear fanny packs, or belts with pouches on them.
And, of course, women who carry around purses. Really, most women I know don't need pockets anyway.
Pro:
-There's no dominant authoritarian social system enforcing/promoting sexual mores. Nudity doesn't break any universal societal norms.
-Perpetual exposure (no pun intended) to alien cultures, even if via media, would presumably make individuals more tolerant of variety.
-There are few if any regressive gender roles that are "othered" or treated primarily as sexual objects or sinful threats.
-The game doesn't care and the setting is fluid enough to adopt this.
Cons:
-Space suits: A PC needs one. Period. Sadly, Second Skin doesn't have advanced versions. Even with climate controlled environments, it seems all NPCs wear them too. Given the range of odors, the environmental protections might be for comfort as much as anything.
-Are you an animal? Judging from the artwork & genre norms (w/ exceptions for some lounges/sports venues), clothing is expected as the mark of being civilized or sentient. The more naked you are the more primitive you come across, perhaps even if from a recognizable species. I have a Vesk hunter going for this primitive look intentionally. If you're sufficiently furry then you might be considered covered and/or too inconvenienced by clothing, but note that Chewbacca was meant to be primitive. Only after having him copilot throughout the story did Lucas accept he couldn't have Wookies be like Ewoks...so he made Ewoks.
-Variety might bite back. While there may be nudist movements within SF cultures, there might be anti-nudist movements too. While I'd expect it to be rare, that also means it might catch you off guard. (Not that I'd expect either in official material.)
-Radiation! If you thought sunburn was bad... Plus all those energy attacks and blades coming your way. Again, PCs need suits.
Pro:
-There's no dominant authoritarian social system enforcing/promoting sexual mores. Nudity doesn't break any universal societal norms.
-Perpetual exposure (no pun intended) to alien cultures, even if via media, would presumably make individuals more tolerant of variety.
-There are few if any regressive gender roles that are "othered" or treated primarily as sexual objects or sinful threats.
-The game doesn't care and the setting is fluid enough to adopt this.Cons:
-Space suits: A PC needs one. Period. Sadly, Second Skin doesn't have advanced versions. Even with climate controlled environments, it seems all NPCs wear them too. Given the range of odors, the environmental protections might be for comfort as much as anything.
-Are you an animal? Judging from the artwork & genre norms (w/ exceptions for some lounges/sports venues), clothing is expected as the mark of being civilized or sentient. The more naked you are the more primitive you come across, perhaps even if from a recognizable species. I have a Vesk hunter going for this primitive look intentionally. If you're sufficiently furry then you might be considered covered and/or too inconvenienced by clothing, but note that Chewbacca was meant to be primitive. Only after having him copilot throughout the story did Lucas accept he couldn't have Wookies be like Ewoks...so he made Ewoks.
-Variety might bite back. While there may be nudist movements within SF cultures, there might be anti-nudist movements too. While I'd expect it to be rare, that also means it might catch you off guard. (Not that I'd expect either in official material.)
-Radiation! If you thought sunburn was bad... Plus all those energy attacks and blades coming your way. Again, PCs need suits.
We don't really know what every NPC wears. Some cheap, basic clothing is only 1 Credit, where the cheapest clothing that gives environmental protection is 10. The cheapest armor that would give protection to all environments and space is 95.
So, if everyone is constantly wearing environmental survival gear, that's at least 10 Credits per outfit, per environment, or 95 Credits for protection from everything per outfit.
What most people wear is probably the normal Everyday wear clothing, which gives absolutely nothing to anything aside from just covering junk up.
Unless you want to wear a big, bulky Space Suit all the time. Which gives the same protections as armor, but if it gets damaged, you're screwed.
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Protection from elements doesn't really factor in if you're spending most of your life aboard a climate-controlled space ship or station. Skittermanders was just one example of races that can go sans-clothing. Dragonkin, Greys, Barathu, Formians... There are many races who don't wear clothing.
Also, I'm talking about strictly clothing for every-day wear. Not armor or protective clothing. Obviously if I'm going somewhere that'll kill me without protective wear, I'm gonna put it on.
Honestly, those kinds of answers always make me imagine that people just assume us nudists are fine standing knee-deep in snow while naked.
Protection from elements does still factor in, even in life aboard a climate controlled space station or starship. In general I assume they control the temperature to what would be generally comfortable for the majority of people. A majority which would likely wear clothes, and would be comfortable in cooler temperatures than you would be if not clothed. To a point of potentially being uncomfortable.
And nowhere did I say some races wouldn't wear clothing. I'm just saying they would be a minority.
And no, I don't think nudist will sit in the cold naked. My point is if you're an adventurer and you spend most days expecting to potentially be stabbed, at what point are you no longer considered a nudist because you wear your armor everyday?
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Cons:
-Space suits: A PC needs one. Period. Sadly, Second Skin doesn't have advanced versions. Even with climate controlled environments, it seems all NPCs wear them too. Given the range of odors, the environmental protections might be for comfort as much as anything.
Aren't carbon skins and kasatha microcords upgraded versions of a seconds skin?
-Are you an animal? Judging from the artwork & genre norms (w/ exceptions for some lounges/sports venues), clothing is expected as the mark of being civilized or sentient. The more naked you are the more primitive you come across, perhaps even if from a recognizable species. I have a Vesk hunter going for this primitive look intentionally. If you're sufficiently furry then you might be considered covered and/or too inconvenienced by clothing, but note that Chewbacca was meant to be primitive. Only after having him copilot throughout the story did Lucas accept he couldn't have Wookies be like Ewoks...so he made Ewoks.
That depends. According to some SF writers cultural and social nudity may even be a sign of a very advanced civilization. And for most species completely covered in fur nudity seems to be the universal norm. Or have you ever seen a Wookiee wearing clothes?
-Variety might bite back. While there may be nudist movements within SF cultures, there might be anti-nudist movements too. While I'd expect it to be rare, that also means it might catch you off guard. (Not that I'd expect either in official material.)
You must differentiate between several very different cases. In a culture in which public nudism has only recently become legal it might be a conservative movement against nudism (similiar to all those homophobic movements of today). In a culture in which public nudism is practiced by the majority it might be a form of rebellion (like the punks in the 1980s).
-Radiation! If you thought sunburn was bad... Plus all those energy attacks and blades coming your way. Again, PCs need suits.
And only because the rules give every armor some protection against radiation.
In my campaign there is a planet in which public nudity is law...
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I would say that most humanoid settlements have laws that allow nudity, but these laws are not universally popular.
That being said, I can't imagine that nudity should come up as a major issue. Undead can walk around freely. PCs can play drow and goblins. I assume an armored goblin with a laser pistol would receive more dirty looks than a nude human.
In a science fantasy setting, there just isn't a lot that is out of the ordinary. Or maybe everything is out of the ordinary. Either way, I imagine that most NPCs shrug off differences in culture, including clothing preferences.
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I'm imagining the Universe's Most Awkward Handshake the first time a tentacle-species meets a naked human male...
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Yangananx still feels quite bad about that incident...
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And, of course, women who carry around purses. Really, most women I know don't need pockets anyway.
You've got it backwards. Women carry purses because their clothes don't have pockets.
I imagine most humanoid cultures probably endorse the wearing of clothes. Mostly because most cultures/races are still pretty much humans of a different variety, and are probably going to regard nudist the same way a majority of cultures tend to regard it.
Even if it's not an issue of modest clothing provides some great benefits:
1) Protection from the elements (whether it be rain, cold, or space) armor/clothes help with this.
2) Pockets. Clothes can be very useful for carrying around stuff.With regard to skittermanders specifically, they probably get a pass due to being covered in fur despite being humanoid.
All in all, regardless of whether or not your character wears clothing, I would expect almost all adventurers to wear a space armor 99% of the time for protection.
Protection from elements doesn't really factor in if you're spending most of your life aboard a climate-controlled space ship or station. Skittermanders was just one example of races that can go sans-clothing. Dragonkin, Greys, Barathu, Formians... There are many races who don't wear clothing.
Also, I'm talking about strictly clothing for every-day wear. Not armor or protective clothing. Obviously if I'm going somewhere that'll kill me without protective wear, I'm gonna put it on.
Honestly, those kinds of answers always make me imagine that people just assume us nudists are fine standing knee-deep in snow while naked.
My counter argument is even on a space station/artificial environment you have to worry about the potential blow out or atmosphere lost/ accidental space exposure.
For a plot device I could see someone utilizing the knowledge that their target is a nudist in their quarters to engineer such a disaster.
Otherwise I would suggest a fusion on armor to call in the case of an emergency.
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It'd probably be restricted to nudist colonies...
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...
Do you bathe in your armor? Do you sleep in it? Do you have sex in it? Do babies live in armor?
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There are some players whose characters do this all the time. Including a (semi-)permanent buffs they can get...
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Don't forget that most forms of light armor are just as comfortable and flexible as clothing. The "wearing chainmail all the time is unrealistic" argument doesn't actually apply in Starfinder.
That said, I doubt actual nudism ( read: a species without natural protective covering, not wearing even subtle or invisible protective clothing ) would be particularly common. Clothing serves useful practical purposes, not the least being "keeping floppy bits from flopping around". Even in a climate controlled environment wear heat and cold are literally never an issue ( and most environments won't be *that* precisely calibrated ), few species will want to have sensitive external genitalia constantly loose and whacking into the surroundings.
Basically, nudity taboo is not the only reason people wear clothing, and the lack of a nudity taboo isn't going to cause people to widely ditch clothing. If anything, lack of a nudity taboo will cause at least some *drop* in nudism, because it no longer has the ideological, rebellious aspect to it. If no one especially cares whether you wear clothing, the lack thereof ceases to be a statement.
I can tell you from experience, having the "floppy bits flopping around" doesn't really cause them to get hit on things. I don't know what all you're expecting to be flopping, but most people don't have a third leg to get caught in a door or something.
You're also assuming that nudism is meant as a statement. It is not. It's either a willingness to be closer to nature, as a Xenodruid might do, or just a comfort thing, as it is for me. There's no statement beyond, "I'm comfortable."
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Azalah is right, it's all about comfort. To see how nudism can work in science fiction, might I suggest you give Isaac Asimov's The Gods Themselves a read?
Also there is Poul Anderson's The Merman's Children, then there is A Princess of Mars by Edgar Rice Burroughs, Howard Fast's "Sight of Eden" is also poignant to Azalah's question. Finally, one must also read Hienlien's Stranger in a Strange Land. Although the Puppet Masters also by Hienlien is also very poignant. But I suggest you read The Gods Themselves first, and then Howard Fast's "Sight of Eden" to understand where Azalah is coming from.
Franchise Manager
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In most cases, whether a culture wears clothes or not isn't something the game or canon spells out. The fact that we illustrate most humanoids who look like they might have human-like naughty bits is that we're publishing books for humans (some of whom have issue with illustrations of the naked human form). There's no mechanical effect of going around naked other than a loss of AC, environmental protection, and pockets, as mentioned above, so it's not like wearing your birthday suit in character is going to give you a leg up, so to speak, over other characters. It seems like it'd make for some interesting roleplaying opportunities, especially if you go with the notion that, while not forbidden, nudism is not the norm among humanoid creatures (in the Pact Worlds). But if everyday folk don't bat an eye at a sentient slugbeast walking down a ship's corridor, I can't see why they'd be particularly put off by a person in an invisible jumpsuit.
Just as humans don't care that animals run around naked as hell all of the time.
Some humans do care about that...
You're also assuming that nudism is meant as a statement. It is not. It's either a willingness to be closer to nature, as a Xenodruid might do, or just a comfort thing, as it is for me. There's no statement beyond, "I'm comfortable."
"Nudism vs Naturism".
Ysoki, being covered in fur and all, probably see being out of clothes as the equivilant of being in a t shirt and sweats. Its not professional but its not taboo. Mine tends to swap outfits in front of people or strip to get alien gunk out of his fur and outfit.
(because he was standing too close when it was vaporized)
That aside nudity in game for the pcs i have no issues. Nudity in real life could get complicated/distraction. If your pc/ is fine with nudity then go at it be nude.
I mean, I have sat around a gaming table completely naked, with seven other fully clothed people with me while we play. It's really just how comfortable your fellow players are with nudity both in-game and out of game.
I still had to put on clothes to go there, because it's illegal to go around naked where I live. Sadly.
But if I move that example to an in-game character, even if it's still illegal to be naked in public, they could still go around nude in private areas such as their quarters, friend's/family's quarters, any real "lawless" zone unless they are worried about getting attacked, and on certain ships that may be ok with it.
This is mainly for those downtime parts of the game, like shopping or when everyone is gathered to discuss what a plan might be at a bar, etc. It's possible to be a nudist and still wear armor when you need to.
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Why restrict alien social standards with archaic human morals.
Well, we have no idea how alien societies work and tend to draw heavily on our own experiences as we have a sample size of one for intelligent space going races.
This takes place in the future of pathfinder and aliens have different social standards and different biology. While a human may think being nude is immoral. While an alien wont have the same standards.
My usualy quip (which drove my anthropology teacher nuts no matter how many times i was right) is that culture comes out of a petri dish. Most of our species started in a really warm climate , spread out to some not quite so warm climates, and needed to put a few layers over the important bits so said bits didn't freeze off.
To me, vesk seem like they would want to be armored or be seen as armored/prepared for battle all the time.
ysoki are practical minded and have their own insulation, probably don't care. Given the height differential they probably prefer if humans are wearing clothes.
Androids: Since most other beings are wearing clothes running around naked is going to get you taken for a mindless robot. The clothes are a costume but a necessary one.
kasathas have facial coverings so they probably have the rest of the body coverings.0
Lashuntas pride themselves on refined frippery. Clothing probably counts
Shirren: the choice to wear no clothing presents 1 option, yes.no. The choice to wear outfits presents NEAR INFINITE FREEDOM OF CHOICE!
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Given what the earliest Lashunta artwork for Pathfinder looked like, I could easily see traditional minded members of that race on Castrovel wearing little or nothing.
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Shirren: the choice to wear no clothing presents 1 option, yes.no. The choice to wear outfits presents NEAR INFINITE FREEDOM OF CHOICE!
Do keep in mind body mods. Tattoos, body paints, piercings, and other potential mods that a Science Fantasy setting might give to a race of bug-people.
Imagine a Shirren walking around naked, but with implanted dermal lights set on patterns of dancing swirls and other neat stuff. Seems pretty unique to me.
Imagine a Shirren walking around naked, but with implanted dermal lights set on patterns of dancing swirls and other neat stuff. Seems pretty unique to me.
So poor shiren, rags, moderately well off shiren good clothes, rich shiren Light up led skin flashing billboards...
Imagine a Shirren walking around naked, but with implanted dermal lights set on patterns of dancing swirls and other neat stuff. Seems pretty unique to me.
So poor shiren, rags, moderately well off shiren good clothes, rich shiren Light up led skin flashing billboards...
I don't see how that is a rebuttal...
I'm not quite sure how the hosts work, but some sort of protection for the pupae might be in order.
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I don't see how that is a rebuttal...
*backfoot headscratch*
Not everything has to be a rebuttal, i thought it was a good idea. I just didn't think it would work for every economic strata.
I'm not quite sure how the hosts work, but some sort of protection for the pupae might be in order.
From what little I know about Shirren, I think the Iconic keeps his pupae in a reinforced glass jar.
Since you gave the option, your just nuts.
If someone said their character was naked, then they wouldn't have any armor on and be dead in short order.
Either way, I would just shake my head and move on.
I think we've covered that in other posts.
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For me, you would have to compare our reasons for wearing clothing in our culture and see what changes in the SF setting.
Main reasons for wearing clothing in our culture:
- environmental issues
- morals/sexuality
- fashion
For the environments harsh to the survival of a species, clothing is essential no matter the setting. But when in a station or climate controlled area, there wouldn't be much need of clothing for protection. Especially in SF where even a tent has environmental controls.
On earth, it is often a taboo to appear in public naked, mostly because of conservative traditions and religious ideals that tie it to sexual context. In SF, there is a much wider level of openness in the way of sexuality, in some cases outright ignoring it as a sex change is pretty cheap. If you include all the different species available to the setting, it replicates the modern world of information exchange to an entirely different level. In addition, the existences of orders such as xenodruids and wardens and exposure to other species that humans are not sexually attracted to would make people inured to the idea of nudity in a general sense. Of course, since it is a fantasy setting with actual gods and whatnot, beliefs in such things may actually be stronger depending on the exact locations within the setting.
A topic I did not see mentioned that is likely a the most major in an advanced society is advertising. Our culture is driven my ads on everything, clothing being one of the biggest ones. In SF there is an entire main class dedicated to the idea of being popular with people. I cannot imagine such an individual not having contracts with various agencies in the background for pay to endorse clothing. If anything, the loss of clothing to market to would cause the progressive stance to shift away from nudity as a whole instead of the traditional beliefs and moralities of modern earth. I agree that most species seen not wearing clothing would be seen as primitive, and that line of reasoning could be propagated by the large industries to prevent that loss of market.
With all of this in mind, I see no reasoning that being nude in SF would have negative connotations towards your character, but at the same time, I do not see it being in the majority in public areas
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A topic I did not see mentioned that is likely a the most major in an advanced society is advertising. Our culture is driven my ads on everything, clothing being one of the biggest ones.
While I agree that advertising could be a big thing, also consider to possibility that people could have other body modifications to advertise as well. In an earlier comment, I mentioned a Shirren example that could have subdermal lights installed and be like a walking light show. Depending on the designs, patterns, and the sheer uniqueness of that type of style, who's to say other Shirrens wouldn't enjoy something like that?
You've also got people today who get very intricate and visually stunning tattoos all over their body, yet they then have to cover them up due to modern societal norms. I'm sure people seeing such displays of artistic talent would be inclined to go to that artist.
Now that gives me the idea of having electronic tattoos covering the entire body like body paint. But some treat body paint as pseudo-clothing, so I guess it depends on where you draw the line on what clothing is.