Unarmed strikes are things such as elbows, knees, and punches. They are not things you can create.
The rules tell you what you can enhance. They aren't going to list everything you can't enhance, and no you can create elbows, and people are not listed as craftable weapons or enhancable weapons.
A GM can allow it because a GM can always change the rules for his table, but that is the only way this will happen.
Also a +30 skill check is not really that high with regard to someone actually focusing on a check. You can get a +30 well before level 20 if you really want to.
In addition if you could enhance creatures there'd be no reason to buy the amulet of might fist.
That is my rules answer.
---------------------------------
My partially non-rules answer:
Get the GM to say these kids have the monk's ability to have his unarmed strikes enhanced due to genetic manipulation. Crafting wouldn't work, but he could have hired someone and/or used magic who could make this happen.
Then have the kids get greater magic weapon, and permanency cast on them. With millions of gold that is more than enough to pay some high level caster to do it. Now you have kids with +5 unarmed strikes.
And Veruca wanted a golden goose. Don't be a bad egg.
/doom-pa-dee-do!
Anyone can get a masterwork unarmed strike: all they need is a mechanical arm. Clockwork arms and the Constructed Pugilist's Constructed Limb are examples.
|
Maybe you should check technology guide and try your gm let you theme cibertech into genetech.
About "create" unarmed strike. Im think the name, raw, is "unarmed".. but if you want it maybe implanted weaponry will be your choice.
Slot: arm; Price: 10,000 gp (special); Weight: 1 lb. (special)
Install: DC 26; Implantation: 2;
CONSTRUCTION
Craft: DC 25; Cost: 5,000 gp (special);
DESCRIPTION
A single light melee weapon or one-handed firearm can be implanted in an arm or cybernetic arm. Melee weapons extend or retract as a swift action. Ranged weapons fire through a port on the palm or back of the wrist. Either type of weapon has statistics identical to its normal form. Firearms reload through a breach in the arm, increasing the reloading time of the weapon to a full-round action, or doubling reloading times that already take a full round or longer. Implanted weapons are well concealed; detecting one requires a thorough search (Perception DC 25). Implanted weaponry can be damaged or destroyed by sundering, but cannot be disarmed. Weaponry installed in a cybernetic arm does not count against a creature's implantation limit. The cost, price, and weight of the weapon to be implanted are added to the cost, price, and weight listed in this stat block.
that is debatable pretty sure a robot monk could be created as masterworkedUnarmed strikes are things such as elbows, knees, and punches. They are not things you can create.
The rules tell you what you can enhance. They aren't going to list everything you can't enhance, and no you can create elbows, and people are not listed as craftable weapons or enhancable weapons.
A GM can allow it because a GM can always change the rules for his table, but that is the only way this will happen.
Also a +30 skill check is not really that high with regard to someone actually focusing on a check. You can get a +30 well before level 20 if you really want to.
In addition if you could enhance creatures there'd be no reason to buy the amulet of might fist.
That is my rules answer.
---------------------------------
My partially non-rules answer:
Get the GM to say these kids have the monk's ability to have his unarmed strikes enhanced due to genetic manipulation. Crafting wouldn't work, but he could have hired someone and/or used magic who could make this happen.Then have the kids get greater magic weapon, and permanency cast on them. With millions of gold that is more than enough to pay some high level caster to do it. Now you have kids with +5 unarmed strikes.
Robots are creatures, can not be masterwork.
My question is, where rules wise, does it say that these are not things that can be created? The unarmed strike is a weapon, which in the monk's case is even specifically a manufactured weapon. The rules for masterwork weapons state that they must be masterwork when created, which the craft(human) or whatever check should provide. Furthermore unarmed strike is a simple melee weapon, which actually makes it specifcally a thing you CAN craft, see the craft skills and DCs table, it is the 9th entry. Also note that its not that they had a +30 to any specific craft, it was just a general +30 on any craft check that they didn't have ranks in, might have actually been higher, but it means that they could easily make a masterwork item of whatever craft is needed, and even if not, the spell masterwork transformation should still be able to render the unarmed strikes masterwork, unless there is a specific ruling for unarmed strikes not having a masterwork equivalent in spite of the general rules for weapons.
On the amulet of mighty fists front? it enhances all of your natural attacks, that still has a niche location in druids, and monsters, and takes out the monk tax.
Essentially I want a solid RAW answer, that doesn't rely on an extraneous assumption that people cannot be crafted.
What material is an elbow made of, and how much does an adamantine elbow cost?
Bone?
So you craft an elbow made of bone and attach it to the character replacing his current elbow?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
"Masterwork" is a quality given to items, not creatures. Granting the masterwork quality to a robot is as meaningless as crafting a +1 flaming human.
Edit: Tell you what, though, if you want to body bludgeon with said masterwork robot, I'll give you the bonus. : )
"Masterwork" is a quality given to items, not creatures. Granting the masterwork quality to a robot is as meaningless as crafting a +1 flaming human.
Edit: Tell you what, though, if you want to body bludgeon with said masterwork robot, I'll give you the bonus. : )
You can make a masterwork item a creature though: Animated Object!
that's what you think, quite a few special materials have the line anything make out of this material is always masterwork qualityRobots are creatures, can not be masterwork.that is debatable pretty sure a robot monk could be created as masterworkedUnarmed strikes are things such as elbows, knees, and punches. They are not things you can create.
The rules tell you what you can enhance. They aren't going to list everything you can't enhance, and no you can create elbows, and people are not listed as craftable weapons or enhancable weapons.
A GM can allow it because a GM can always change the rules for his table, but that is the only way this will happen.
Also a +30 skill check is not really that high with regard to someone actually focusing on a check. You can get a +30 well before level 20 if you really want to.
In addition if you could enhance creatures there'd be no reason to buy the amulet of might fist.
That is my rules answer.
---------------------------------
My partially non-rules answer:
Get the GM to say these kids have the monk's ability to have his unarmed strikes enhanced due to genetic manipulation. Crafting wouldn't work, but he could have hired someone and/or used magic who could make this happen.Then have the kids get greater magic weapon, and permanency cast on them. With millions of gold that is more than enough to pay some high level caster to do it. Now you have kids with +5 unarmed strikes.
Being made of something that is used to create the masterwork component doesnt make something masterwork.
In other words adamantine itself is not masterwork. It is however a material that can be used to create a masterwork component. So like I said robots are not masterwork. If they were you would be able to find a rule stating how to price an MW one from one that was not MW, and what the differences were.
Oh! You want to make masterwork weapons from babies?! Oh yeah, that's definetly possible! Light and one handed weapons, or 2 handed if they are bludgeoning.
Bone is a special material, it doesnt qualify as a masterwork component.
What are you on about? There are rules for masterwork bone weapons, halfway through the description. That is how you make masterwork weapons from babies.
Bone is a special material, it doesnt qualify as a masterwork component.
I thought he was saying it was a masterwork component. That was my dispute. I see what you are talking about. Babies would be an improvised weapon, but I thin there is a way to enhance improvised weapons as if they were regular weapons. I'm going to stop here with the baby as a weapon talk because I dont want to get the thread shut down. I can already see how this can go sideways.
How is an unarmed strike not an item if it is a weapon, a weapon is a type of item, therefore an unarmed strike must be an item, even if a non-traditional one, I still cant find anything in the PRD to suggest otherwise.
Natural attacks are weapons, and they aren't items. Some spell effects are also counted as weapons.
An unarmed strike is how you use your body to attack someone.
-----
If you look in the combat chapter it has an attack section.
The attack section has a subheading under attacks called melee attacks that talks about manufactured weapons.
Then the attack section has a subheading under attacks called unarmed attacks.
The unarmed attack section description is:
Striking for damage with punches, kicks, and head butts is much like attacking with a melee weapon, except for the following:
So if unarmed attacks are like attacking with melee weapons and it has its own rules then we know they are not melee weapons. They just use the melee attack rules as far as how to resolve hitting targets and damage.
Then under armed attacks we have unarmed strike damage. So that means that unarmed strike fall under unarmed attacks. So if unarmed attacks are not actual weapons, and an unarmed strike falls under unarmed strikes then we know an unarmed strike is not a weapon.
We also know from the books that things such as knees and elbows are used for to do unarmed strike damage. You are not armed when your hands are empty, but you can still do damage. Therefore you have unarmed strike damage.
Unarmed basically means you don't have a weapon to damage anyone with. That is why people who are unarmed don't threaten, and can't normally make AoO's. You have to take a feat such as improved unarmed strike to even threaten someone when your hands are empty. This allows you to be considered as armed, even though you don't have any weapons.
Improved Unarmed Strike (Combat)
You are skilled at fighting while unarmed.Benefit: You are considered to be armed even when unarmed—you do not provoke attacks of opportunity when you attack foes while unarmed. Your unarmed strikes can deal lethal or nonlethal damage, at your choice.
Normal: Without this feat, you are considered unarmed when attacking with an unarmed strike, and you can deal only nonlethal damage with such an attack.
If that is not enough for you then I am done here. I will leave it to you and your GM to work it out.
How is an unarmed strike not an item if it is a weapon, a weapon is a type of item, therefore an unarmed strike must be an item, even if a non-traditional one, I still cant find anything in the PRD to suggest otherwise.
Incorrect. A weapon can be an item, but it is not always an item.
Praise the publishing lords the Martial Arts Handbook gave us Handwaraps. Now we can have masterwork and enchanted unarmed without the need to eat our neck slot.
Don't forget no longer having to pay twice as much just because "the monk is not a class that is designed specifically to stand up toe-to-toe with a fighter".
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
As a GM and owner of many books with several hours/years of reading it is not only possible to have an unarmed strike that is masterwork it is literally in the level progression. At level 16 a monk gets Ki pool (adamantine), making his strikes bypass DR like his fists were made of this material. Adamantine weapons, as detailed in the Ultimate Equipment book as so rare that when one is created they are "always" masterwork, except in this case the monk is honing his weapon over a long career of punches.
Nope. Being able to bypass DR/adamantine does not make the unarmed strike itself adamantine, and it doesn't change the fact that an unarmed strike is not an item and thus cannot be masterwork. Let it go, folks. Get one of the stupid new handwraps and call it a day.
A monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.
So, I don’t know why masterwork transformation wouldn’t work on it. The intent would seem to be for that kind of thing to work.
A monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.So, I don’t know why masterwork transformation wouldn’t work on it. The intent would seem to be for that kind of thing to work.
Because Masterwork Transformation says you "convert a non-masterwork item", and while your US may count as a weapon, it's still not an item.
What about a pair of clockwork arms? Could they be made masterwork?...........I joke I joke.
Because Masterwork Transformation says you "convert a non-masterwork item", and while your US may count as a weapon, it's still not an item.A monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.So, I don’t know why masterwork transformation wouldn’t work on it. The intent would seem to be for that kind of thing to work.
A manufactured weapon is a kind of item though. Moreover, the spell’s target specifies weapons, which the monk unarmed strike unquestionably is. I mean, I guess I could see how someone might try to nitpick it into not working, but I can’t imagine the intent is anything other than for it to work.
A manufactured weapon is a kind of item though.
That's the part that's being missed here--this is not universally true.
Moreover, the spell’s target specifies weapons, which the monk unarmed strike unquestionably is.
There's a whole bunch of text below the "Target" field of most spells. This text often applies additional restrictions or qualifiers that determine whether a spell works and what it does when it works.
I mean, I guess I could see how someone might try to nitpick it into not working, but I can’t imagine the intent is anything other than for it to work.
Leaving aside that this is an argument from incredulity coming from someone stating that you can craft superior versions of your fists, elbows, and feet: The intent is illustrated by (a) the spell description clearly stating "item"; and (b) the vast body of published work and the existence of items specifically designed to do the thing that this wants to do in other ways for different costs.
A monk's unarmed strike is treated as a manufactured weapon so that it benefits from effects that only work with manufactured weapons. That's all. It does not make a monk's unarmed strike an item. Here are a few other ways that a monk's unarmed strike is not an item despite the "treated as a manufactured weapon" clause:
1. A monk may not craft additional unarmed strikes.
2. A monk may not sell their unarmed strike for half its cost, metaphor notwithstanding.
3. A monk's unarmed strike doesn't have weight.
4. A monk may not throw their unarmed strike.
5. A monk's unarmed strike may not be stolen, disarmed, nor sundered.
It doesn't work, it wasn't meant to work, and specific workarounds have been added to the game to let you do what you want anyway. If you want to play it differently, faboo!
First, “item” isn’t even a well defined in-game term. Unarmed strike is an item in that it is part of a list. And if you have some other definition for item, exactly how is a manufactured weapon not one?
Second, the monk’s unarmed strike isn’t a manufactured weapon for all cases, but only for spells and effects, which masterwork transformation is.
Third, your interpretation would break other classic rules, such as share spells. So, a Druid can cast humanoid targeting spells on their companion, but it won’t do anything because they aren’t actually human? That’s clearly not the intent.
First, “item” isn’t even a well defined in-game term. Unarmed strike is an item in that it is part of a list. And if you have some other definition for item, exactly how is a manufactured weapon not one?
When a word isn't explicitly defined in the rules, use the common meaning of the word in the context in which it appears. There's more than enough context, both in the description for masterwork transformation specifically and the rules text in general, to indicate the "element of a list" is not the definition being used.
Second, the monk’s unarmed strike isn’t a manufactured weapon for all cases, but only for spells and effects, which masterwork transformation is.
But it is not an item, which the spell requires. We've been over this already; ignoring the text you don't like doesn't make it go away. Unless you're the GM, anyway--I ignore text I don't like all the time. : )
Third, your interpretation would break other classic rules, such as share spells. So, a Druid can cast humanoid targeting spells on their companion, but it won’t do anything because they aren’t actually human? That’s clearly not the intent.
Non sequitur--share spells has no relation whatsoever to what I wrote. Regardless, share spells has specific language stating that such spells work "even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the companion’s type". A monk's unarmed strike has no such language stating that it can be treated as an item. Which is good for the monk--we wouldn't want to be able to sunder their primary class feature, after all.